Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Abortion legalized in Uruguay ...  (Read 1067 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline alaric

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3139
  • Reputation: +2280/-386
  • Gender: Male
Abortion legalized in Uruguay ...
« on: September 26, 2012, 08:28:43 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Child slaughter becoming legalized in  (catholic) Latin America.  :rolleyes:

    (From Yahoo main page)

    ..Uruguay poised to legalize abortion
    By PABLO FERNANDEZ | Associated Press – 13 hrs ago..



    ....MONTEVIDEO, Uruguay (AP) — Uruguay's congress appeared ready on Tuesday to legalize abortion, a groundbreaking move in Latin America, where no country save Cuba has made abortions accessible to all women during the first trimester of pregnancy.

    Compromises made to secure votes disappointed both sides of the abortion divide, which gathered in protest. Once it gets through Uruguay's lower house, the measure would go back to the Senate for approval of changes, but President Jose Mujica has said he will allow it to become law.

    The measure would give women the right to a legal abortion during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, and decriminalize later-term abortions when the mother's life is at risk or when the fetus is so deformed that it wouldn't survive after birth. In cases of rape, abortions would be legal during the first 14 weeks.

    The goal is to reduce the number of illegal abortions in Uruguay, Congressman Ivan Posada of the center-left Independent Party told his fellow lawmakers Tuesday. Posada wrote the measure and is expected to provide a key 50th vote against the opposition of 49 other lawmakers.

    "They talk of 30,000 a year, a hypothetical number, but whatever the number is, it's quite dramatic for a country where 47,000 children are born each year," Posada explained earlier in an Associated Press interview.

    A poll this month showed 52 percent of Uruguayans would vote to legalize abortion if the question were put to the people, while 34 percent would vote against it. The survey of 802 people nationwide by the CIFRA consulting firm had a 3.4 percentage point margin of error.

    Compromises include requiring women seeking abortions to justify their request before a panel of at least three professionals — a gynecologist, psychologist and social worker — and listen to advice about alternatives including adoption and support services if should she decide to keep the baby.
    Then, she must wait five more days "to reflect" on the consequences before the procedure.

    "It's important that the woman who decides to have an abortion attend this meeting where she will be informed, where they'll explain all the options including alternatives that she is free to choose from," Posada told the AP.

    The review panel should obtain the father's point of view, but only if the woman agrees. Women under 18 must show parental consent, but they can seek approval from a judge instead if they're unwilling or unable to involve their parents in the decision.

    The measure also allows entire private health care institutions, as well as individual health care providers, to decline to perform abortions.

    Such requirements raised objections from Amnesty International and other groups, which say layers of bureaucracy will create barriers and delay abortions until more than 12 weeks have passed, thus forcing women and health care providers into criminal territory.

    "This is not the law for which we fought for more than 25 years," complained Marta Agunin, who directs Women and Health, a non-governmental organization in Uruguay.

    Also opposed are Uruguay's Catholic and evangelical institutions, which along with public hospitals provide much of the available health care in Uruguay.

    A statement from Uruguay's Catholic University says it makes no sense to punish a woman for killing a fetus that is 12 weeks and 1 day old, but to decriminalize abortions before then. Conservatives also object to the removal of a proposal to require the father's consent before any abortion.

    Cuba, which decriminalizes abortions in the first 10 weeks of pregnancy, is the only country in Latin America where legal abortion is common. Argentina and Colombia allow it only in cases of rape or when the mother's life is endangered. Colombia also allows it when there is proof of fetal malformation. Mexico City has legalized first-trimester abortions, but there are restrictions in most other parts of the country.

    Many countries ban abortions under any conditions.

    Uruguay's lawmakers have no desire to make their country a destination for women from other countries seeking abortions. The measure says only Uruguayan citizens and women who can prove at least one year's residency can apply. "This is a solution for those who live here, not that Uruguay becomes a place that attracts people from other countries for this procedure," Posada told the AP.

    Opposition Deputy Javier Garcia of the center-right National Party accused lawmakers of treating living embryos as if they were "disposable," which he equated with murder.

    The margin for the law was razor-thin on Tuesday after Deputy Andres Lima of the ruling Broad Front coalition said he would refuse to vote. With Posada joining the coalition, the measure appeared headed for passage by a 50-49 vote margin.

    Dr. Marie Gonzalez, bioethicist at the University of the Republic, called the measure "evil" and vowed to work to persuade her fellow gynecologists to refuse to perform the procedure if it becomes law.

    "The embryo-fetus is a human being, and as such has rights, like the human right to live," she said.


    Offline PenitentWoman

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 790
    • Reputation: +1031/-1
    • Gender: Female
    Abortion legalized in Uruguay ...
    « Reply #1 on: September 26, 2012, 08:49:13 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •  :pray:   babies...  :cry: :cry: :cry:




    Quote
    The measure would give women the right to a legal abortion during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, and decriminalize later-term abortions when the mother's life is at risk or when the fetus is so deformed that it wouldn't survive after birth. In cases of rape, abortions would be legal during the first 14 weeks.


    I don't understand how people can justify murder based on the circuмstances surrounding the conception.  Under this law, it is only a 2 week extension (which seems pointless...after 14 weeks how can rape be proven?  How can rape ever be proven really?) but anytime we try to change the value of the child's life (his right to be born) based on the actions of the parents, the entire argument that abortion is wrong because it takes a human life becomes null and void.  

    Catholics are slowly starting to buy into the "I'm against abortion, but..." mentality.  
    ~For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for? But if we hope for that which we see not, we wait for it with patience. ~ Romans 8:24-25


    Offline alaric

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3139
    • Reputation: +2280/-386
    • Gender: Male
    Abortion legalized in Uruguay ...
    « Reply #2 on: September 26, 2012, 09:09:56 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: PenitentWoman
    :pray:   babies...  :cry: :cry: :cry:




    Quote
    The measure would give women the right to a legal abortion during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, and decriminalize later-term abortions when the mother's life is at risk or when the fetus is so deformed that it wouldn't survive after birth. In cases of rape, abortions would be legal during the first 14 weeks.


    I don't understand how people can justify murder based on the circuмstances surrounding the conception.  Under this law, it is only a 2 week extension (which seems pointless...after 14 weeks how can rape be proven?  How can rape ever be proven really?) but anytime we try to change the value of the child's life (his right to be born) based on the actions of the parents, the entire argument that abortion is wrong because it takes a human life becomes null and void.  

    Catholics are slowly starting to buy into the "I'm against abortion, but..." mentality.  
    I just had a very long, intense discussion like this with a very close friend and supposedly "catholic" on this very issue.

    The big one he kept bringing up was in the case of "rape".

    I kept on going back to to whether there was ever a time to snuff out an innocent, innocent human being. Also that regardless of the fact that the father was a criminial, that baby is still part of the mother and life was determined by  the Will of God for one reason or another, who are we to deny it? Another interesting slant is the fact that most feminists do not want the father to be involved in the decision whether to determine the child's fate yet in the case of rape which is probably their biggest proponent for the procedure, they actually use the father as the deciding factor in "aborting" the fetus.

    Their minds are truly deluded.

    Offline Telesphorus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 12713
    • Reputation: +22/-13
    • Gender: Male
    Abortion legalized in Uruguay ...
    « Reply #3 on: September 26, 2012, 09:12:13 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    "I'm against abortion, but..."


    I've come to the conclusion many Catholics view it as they view most ideas in Catholic morality.  Something they are against in theory but would resort to it if they felt it necessary.

    Another reason why it's very hard for young men to be certain of the decency of the women they meet.

    Offline Elizabeth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4845
    • Reputation: +2194/-15
    • Gender: Female
    Abortion legalized in Uruguay ...
    « Reply #4 on: September 26, 2012, 09:22:39 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: alaric


    The big one he kept bringing up was in the case of "rape".

    ....

    Their minds are truly deluded.


    Deluded is right.  After an abortion, the woman is triple raped.  Pregnancy from rape is not so common, for a number of reasons inappropriate to discuss.  If God made someone out of that situation, He did so for a very good reason.


    Offline PenitentWoman

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 790
    • Reputation: +1031/-1
    • Gender: Female
    Abortion legalized in Uruguay ...
    « Reply #5 on: September 26, 2012, 09:41:02 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Elizabeth


    Deluded is right.  After an abortion, the woman is triple raped.  Pregnancy from rape is not so common, for a number of reasons inappropriate to discuss.  If God made someone out of that situation, He did so for a very good reason.


    Exactly.  

    So many women just don't seem to get it...the baby might have been sent to save you from the wrong kind of life.  What a terrible attack on our Lord or just throw away a blessing sent to bring good from bad.   :cry:

    ~For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for? But if we hope for that which we see not, we wait for it with patience. ~ Romans 8:24-25

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 13823
    • Reputation: +5568/-865
    • Gender: Male
    Abortion legalized in Uruguay ...
    « Reply #6 on: September 26, 2012, 09:44:21 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Elizabeth
    Quote from: alaric


    The big one he kept bringing up was in the case of "rape".

    ....

    Their minds are truly deluded.


    Deluded is right.  After an abortion, the woman is triple raped.  Pregnancy from rape is not so common, for a number of reasons inappropriate to discuss.  If God made someone out of that situation, He did so for a very good reason.


    Two wrongs never make a right.

    It is quite astounding actually to see what this world has sunk too without Holy Mother the Church in authority.

    The NO and it's "mass" mocks, rather than appeases God and things just continue on the path of self destruction and no one who could, does anything about it.  

    I don't even want to begin to imagine the eternal fate that awaits those within the Church with  authority who have the power to at least try to straighten this crisis out, yet only promote more abomination. Their crimes will not go unpunished - Mother of mercy!

    What horror must invade the mind
    when the approaching Judge shall find
    and sift the deeds of all mankind!

    For now before the Judge severe
    all hidden things must plain appear;
    no crime can pass unpunished here.  

    It's like the saying says: "If God does not destroy America [this world] then He owes an apology to Sodom and Gomorrah!"
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline alaric

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3139
    • Reputation: +2280/-386
    • Gender: Male
    Abortion legalized in Uruguay ...
    « Reply #7 on: September 26, 2012, 09:56:59 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: PenitentWoman
    Quote from: Elizabeth


    Deluded is right.  After an abortion, the woman is triple raped.  Pregnancy from rape is not so common, for a number of reasons inappropriate to discuss.  If God made someone out of that situation, He did so for a very good reason.


    Exactly.  

    So many women just don't seem to get it...the baby might have been sent to save you from the wrong kind of life.  What a terrible attack on our Lord or just throw away a blessing sent to bring good from bad.   :cry:

    This is the thing, we just don't know for sure the how and the why of it.

    I don't know, but I would gamble if we looked down through the ages how many game-changers of this world were the product of the result of an "unwanted pregnancies" in one form or another. I know, in the case of rape it would be a very hard thing to accept but what is the alternative, just kill it?

    What kind of a society does that make us?

    Are we no better than the ancient pagans who used to launch defective babies off a cliff because it was for the "good" of the people?

    I think you can really get a good look into a culture that  justifies the murder of the most defense-less within it's confines all in the name of some "higher" purpose like "liberty" or the common "good".

    I think we crossed that road a long time ago and are under the judgment of a real "higher" authority and are beginning to slowly reap what we have sowed in the murder of the innocents.


    Offline PenitentWoman

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 790
    • Reputation: +1031/-1
    • Gender: Female
    Abortion legalized in Uruguay ...
    « Reply #8 on: September 26, 2012, 10:14:27 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • We live in a world that teaches us to be selfish.  All the the pro-choice jargon about "my body, my choice" completely removes the idea of making sacrifices for the good of others.   Children are viewed as burdens instead of blessings.  That is why Obama defended his pro-choice views by saying that if his daughter made a mistake, he wouldn't want her to be "punished" with a baby.

    A baby is not a punishment.  I have no idea why God trusted me or felt I was worthy of being a mother to my daughter, but she is truly a gift.  

    This topic makes me  :cry:
    ~For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for? But if we hope for that which we see not, we wait for it with patience. ~ Romans 8:24-25

    Offline Marcelino

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1498
    • Reputation: +31/-3
    • Gender: Male
    Abortion legalized in Uruguay ...
    « Reply #9 on: September 27, 2012, 03:28:03 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Sad to say, I think the move in Uruguay is just a formality.  I doubt their rate of abortion has been much different than ours in The U.S.  Apparently, Mexico's is even higher, than ours.  


    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    Abortion legalized in Uruguay ...
    « Reply #10 on: September 27, 2012, 05:06:37 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This is very sad
     :sad: :sad: :sad: :cry: :cry: :cry:
    It is also an example of how one vote could effect everything
     :cry: :cry: :cry: