Author Topic: Aboriginal Theology (Read 3136 times)

trickster · « **Reply #30 on:** August 13, 2014, 07:54:39 AM »

Thank you Poche. Wow, linguistics is a very good place to start I can agree with that. Language, as a human construct, is very important. Once I googled the Nahuatl language it came up in the context of the Mexica Movement, which I became familar with when I lived in El Paso, where the majority of people are Latino or Mexican. I also met a number of Pueblo, Apache and other tribal groups that lived in the area.

I didn't realize that they had a similar movement to our aboriginal movement in Canada, so that I found to be very encouraging.

http://www.mexica-movement.org/timexihcah/nahuatl.htm

Like I pointed out to another poster, we need to understand the cultural significance of things like the Dream Catcher, the totem pole and so forth to understand how those items relate to a selection of appropriate cutlural expression of the liturgy.

Language, you are correct, is key. Many of the early interpretations of missionaries both in Mexico and North America were based on second language capacity of the interpreter or missionary, and these people did not always get it right. Wrong messaging went back to Rome so many times. The Jesuit Relations to a degree were funding propaganda to keep the mission dollars coming. It is like the modern day commercials emphasising all the bad things as a case for funding.

I agree with you Poche that linguistics is a very strong component of developing aboriginal theology, in fact it maybe a cornerstone need for the development of an authentic understanding.

Bruce

Nadir · « **Reply #31 on:** August 13, 2014, 05:30:53 PM »

Quote from: Nadir

Quote from: trickster
Nadir....what is it that Matthew Fox teaches is evil? How would you conclude that Matthew Fox is evil in himself and a servant of Lucifer. Those are pretty broad statements without substantitive examples or backgrounders.

How is drawing from the Hebrew notion of Original Blessing heretical when the centre of Augustine's point was not the notion of Original sin, but an explanation of why it is wise to baptize people as infants?

My Christianity is not based on the fear of hell but the love of Jesus, so I am open to your arguements but you need to make them and not just resort to tired rhetoric about condemnation.

If you are going to make points, then back them up...that is what I am interested in.

Bruce

Somehow I thought that reading the link I posted would have clarified what is wrong with that Fox. So here goes:

Fox advocates goddess worship.

Fox advocates the mysticism and spirituality of Earth worship.

Fox denies the doctrine of original sin.

His "Techno Cosmic Mass" is a blasphemy.

He insults Jesus and His Blessed Mother.

There’s more of course but that is enough…

Now it is not as though Fox is ignorant (Fr Z calls him and idiot and a nut case - I don't agree - he knows he is doing evil and is unrepentent) and therefore to be excused on those grounds. He was a Dominican for 34 years, so he has no excuse. He made a vow of obedience but when he was called to account for his heresies he refused to answer for them.

He left the Catholic Church 20 years ago, not that he was a Catholic, of course. He just saw the writing on the wall and went to other pastures (and another market place) where he could keep spreading his falsehoods, knowing of course that some “Catholics” would follow him, and keep buying his books and attending his workshops and swallow his folly.

I hope that helps to answer your question, Bruce.

I thought I'd repost this as you seemed to miss it.

I have a healthy respect for the notion of hell, but it doesn't rule my life. Jesus Christ rules my life. If you love truly love Him you will be rightly indignant by attacks on Him, particularly by people who spend a lifetime concentrating their efforts on undermining His Teachings. You take all with a grain of salt and a pinch of approval. Fox is brilliant!

It is not me who can damn him. He will damn himself unless he repents.

You say you believe in Hell but you are imply is that nobody goes there, not even this reprobate.

Here is some of that "tired rhetoric about condemnation" that you insinuate I am making. I guess you wil say that this is just symbolic:

Matthew 25:41

Quote

Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels.

trickster · « **Reply #32 on:** August 13, 2014, 10:14:42 PM »

Here is a video that gives an overview of aboriginal theology/philosophy which is representative of many North American Indigenous nations. I think it addresses two things at least (1) it distinguishes what indigenous people believe in relation to paganism (animal and nature worship) and (2) the world view of indigenous communities is not that far from the world view of the Catholic Church via its teachings.

I'd be interested in people's reaction to it. There are specific statements made in the video. If you want to comment then quote or highlight the part of the video you are talking about so that I can respond, or think through with you.

Bruce Ferguson

poche · « **Reply #33 on:** August 13, 2014, 10:35:34 PM »

Quote from: trickster

Thank you Poche. Wow, linguistics is a very good place to start I can agree with that. Language, as a human construct, is very important. Once I googled the Nahuatl language it came up in the context of the Mexica Movement, which I became familar with when I lived in El Paso, where the majority of people are Latino or Mexican. I also met a number of Pueblo, Apache and other tribal groups that lived in the area.

I didn't realize that they had a similar movement to our aboriginal movement in Canada, so that I found to be very encouraging.

http://www.mexica-movement.org/timexihcah/nahuatl.htm

Like I pointed out to another poster, we need to understand the cultural significance of things like the Dream Catcher, the totem pole and so forth to understand how those items relate to a selection of appropriate cutlural expression of the liturgy.

Language, you are correct, is key. Many of the early interpretations of missionaries both in Mexico and North America were based on second language capacity of the interpreter or missionary, and these people did not always get it right. Wrong messaging went back to Rome so many times. The Jesuit Relations to a degree were funding propaganda to keep the mission dollars coming. It is like the modern day commercials emphasising all the bad things as a case for funding.

I agree with you Poche that linguistics is a very strong component of developing aboriginal theology, in fact it maybe a cornerstone need for the development of an authentic understanding.

Bruce

Actually the fact that the story is in Nahuatl is only part of teh story. The Nican Mopohua describes the intervention of the Blessed Virgin into the lives of the indigenous people thatn inspired them to become Catholic.