[Stubborn]

I thumbed it down because we don't need to be enforcing PC speech codes that forbid derogatory language towards men who are like "wild beasts"

I understand, but it isn't about being PC.

Look, I agree completely with the Church about ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, and every other aspect of its moral teaching on sɛҳuąƖ matters.  I also believer that, as St. Francis de Sales said, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.  Out principal concern should be converting sinners, all of them, Of whom I am the first.  Language like this will not convert anyone.  

Sigismund, forget about catching flies with honey - while it may or may not always work with flies, V2 fed everyone honey and all being PC does is send Catholics away by the millions, it does not attract them to conversion. When it comes to today's crisis, honey is the poison which is already easily found every day, everywhere - but has no place on the Catholic menu when it comes to offending or trying to convert queers.

Too much honey causes sickness - in order to cure the sickness, vinegar is needed to purge the system. When I grew up, they were known as "queers" mostly. One thing they are not and never will be is "gαy" - that, after all, is a name queer people labeled themselves with - that fact in and of itself is reason normal people should never use the word "gαy" when referring to queers - because they are queer, not gαy. If this sounds confusing, please look the words up in an *old* dictionary.

The last thing any Catholic on the internet should be concerned about in this day and age is offending queers or those who worry about offending queers - if the queers do not like the term, then repent - or in shame, go back underground and stay there. But using terms queers deem insulting is not a misuse of language, rather, it is being true and clear.

[Sigismund]

How many politically correct SWPL types are there interested in Catholicism? Maybe there are some attracted by the smells and bells. As I've said before, for every one of those, there's someone else who's put off Catholicism by uptight political correctness.

What is SWPL?

[Sigismund]

I thumbed it down because we don't need to be enforcing PC speech codes that forbid derogatory language towards men who are like "wild beasts"

I understand, but it isn't about being PC.

Look, I agree completely with the Church about ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, and every other aspect of its moral teaching on sɛҳuąƖ matters.  I also believer that, as St. Francis de Sales said, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.  Out principal concern should be converting sinners, all of them, Of whom I am the first.  Language like this will not convert anyone.  

Sigismund, forget about catching flies with honey - while it may or may not always work with flies, V2 fed everyone honey and all being PC does is send Catholics away by the millions, it does not attract them to conversion. When it comes to today's crisis, honey is the poison which is already easily found every day, everywhere - but has no place on the Catholic menu when it comes to offending or trying to convert queers.

Too much honey causes sickness - in order to cure the sickness, vinegar is needed to purge the system. When I grew up, they were known as "queers" mostly. One thing they are not and never will be is "gαy" - that, after all, is a name queer people labeled themselves with - that fact in and of itself is reason normal people should never use the word "gαy" when referring to queers - because they are queer, not gαy. If this sounds confusing, please look the words up in an *old* dictionary.

The last thing any Catholic on the internet should be concerned about in this day and age is offending queers or those who worry about offending queers - if the queers do not like the term, then repent - or in shame, go back underground and stay there. But using terms queers deem insulting is not a misuse of language, rather, it is being true and clear.

I am not suggesting that we water down Catholic doctrine in the slightest.  We can say that ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is disordered and that ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ sex is a sin.  I am suggesting that we will be more effective in calling people involved in sin to repentance if we don't call them names while we are doing it.   I understand avoiding gαy becasue it is a term of pride, but what is wrong with simply calling them ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ?

[Viva Cristo Rey]

This is the future of traditionalism under the neotrads.

Don't doubt it.

In a few decades the "official Church" is going to be openly pro-ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ - what do you think the SSPX is going to do about it?

What will they be able do to about it, if they're absorbed by modernist Rome?

Absolutely nothing.

The movement is being subverted, now, as we speak.

I've met two trad priests who were extremelyvery feminine.

I think the NO is already accepting of it. Didn't the Pope issue a statement that c*nd*ms were OK for male prostitutes?  

edit: http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/20/pope-says-condoms-may-be-ok-in-some-circuмstances/


I can't believe he did not speak out aganst prostitution, sodomy, the exploitation of sex workers, underage sex slaves, instead he says they can use a condom, it's so perverse.

the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs are in charge of the biggest Novus ordo parishes.  They are in the seminaries preying on young men and drugging gang raping them.

There are so many ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs in Novus that they are waiting on sidelines for same sex marriage being a law which wouldl make getting rid of priests who are gαy illegal.  Making it a hate law.
 

[Viva Cristo Rey]

I'm sure that sspx has its share of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs...
ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs and pedophiles usually seek out jobs and groups where they can get easy prey.  At times, they start with girls and work their way to boys.

Look at Elmo....homo man had "relationship" with 16 year old.  They are in politics big time.  

[Viva Cristo Rey]

Yes, they are queer.. and the Novus ordo is overun by them.

And now pseudo-sspx want to join in.  

These pretty boys live like hollywood movie stars.  The laity does everything even weddings, funerals, hand out eucharist.  

The homoclergy go to queer parties exchange porn, etc.  queer bars, etc.

This is why they don't take action to protect the Holy Sacrament of marriage or even the priesthood.

[JonahG]

They are Sodomites and shoud be beaten with Sticks.


But to sort out this issue, look at WHOM is behind ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity.
Same Usual J E W suspects-from NAMBLA to gαy Lobbying organization.





Larry Kramer
Co-founder of "Act Up," a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ/AIDS activist organization; co-founder of the gαy Men's Health Crisis
 
 
Alan Klein
Co-founder of group ACT UP, co-founder of group Queer Nation, National Communications Director and chief spokesperson for the gαy & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation [GLAAD].  
 
 

 Arnie Kantrowitz
Co-founder of the gαy and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation [GLAAD].
 
 
Jonathan D. Katz
Founded and chairs the Harvey Milk Institute, the largest queer studies institute in the world. A long time gαy political activist, was a co-founder of Queer Nation.
 

 Harvey Fierstein
Film actor [Mrs. Doubtfire]; well-known gαy activist.
 


 Moisés Kaufman
Playwright and film director [The Laramie Project].
 

 Israel Fishman
Founder of the gαy Liberation Caucus in 1970, now known as the gαy, Lesbian, BisɛҳuąƖ, and Transgendered Round Table.
 
 
Bella Abzug
The first members of the U.S. House of Representatives to introduce legislation banning discrimination based on sɛҳuąƖ orientation [1974].
 
 
 Winnie Stachelberg
Political director, Human Rights Campaign


Michael S. Aronowitz
The New York Log Cabin Republicans.
 
 

 Tony Kushner
gαy activist; Tony and 1993 Pulitzer Prize-winning playwright.
 
 
 
Len Hirsch
President of the GLBT federal government employees group, GLOBE.

 
 Meg Moritz, Ph.D.
 Director and member of the Executive Committee of GLAAD.
 

Barbara Raab
NBC-TV producer; a "Jєωιѕн lesbian feminist journalist, writer."
 

 David Goodstein
Owner/publisher of the gαy magazine The Advocate; co-founder of the National gαy Rights Lobby.
 
 
Kevin Koffler
Editor-in-chief, Genre gαy magazine.



 Judy Wieder
Editor-in-chief, The Advocate gαy magazine.
 

Barney Frank
Member of U.S. Congress; helped create non-discriminatory employment policies in all U.S. federal agencies
 
 
 
 Jennifer Einhorn
Communications Director, gαy & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation.
 
 
Evan Wolfson
Senior Staff Attorney, Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund -- and -- the executive director of Freedom to Marry.
 
 
 Allan Ginsburg
Jєωιѕн poet and leading member of North American Man Boy Love Association
 
 
Kathy Levinson
American investor and philanthropist; serves on the board of PlanetOut; also on NGLTF Board of Directors.
 
 
Roberta Achtenberg
Civil rights lawyer and federal official; appointed as Assistant Secretary for Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity by President Bill Clinton in 1993.
 

 Richard Goldstein
Village Voice writer on gαy culture and politics.
 
 
Terry Lobel
Executive director of the National gαy and Lesbian Task Force.
 
 

 Surina Kahn
American lesbian activist.

 
Jay Guy Nassberg
Founder of the Lavender Healing Network; a former gαy activist with the the gαy Liberation Front.
 
 
 Judith Light
Actress, activist for gαy causes.
 
   
Rick Rosendall
President, gαy & Lesbian Activists Alliance of Washington, DC.
 

 Jack Fritscher
Editor in Chief of Drummer gαy magazine
Fred Hochberg

Deputy administrator, U.S. Small Business Administration; co-chair of the Human Rights Campaign [HRC].
 
 
 
 
 Sarah Schulman
American playwright, novelist, and activist [one of the founders of the Lesbian Avengers, a direct-action lesbian rights organization].
 
 
 
Rex Wockner
Longtime gαy, American journalist who has reported news for the gαy press since 1985.
 

 Alison Bechdel
Cartoonist creator and author of the bi-weekly comic strip "Dykes to Watch Out For."
 
 

Charles Kaiser [?] -- author & founding member of National Lesbian and gαy Journalists Association [NLGJA].


Garrett Glaser -- National Lesbian and gαy Journalists Association [NLGJA] national board member.

Ronald Gold -- reporter for Variety; a leader in the fight to overturn the American Psychiatric Association's policy that ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is an illness.

Magnus Hirschfeld [d. 1935], early gαy rights activist in Germany; founded one of the first gαy rights organizations, the Scientific Humanitarian Committee; coined the term "transvestism"; fled nαzι Germany.


Michael Berman -- member, Human Rights Campaign Board of Directors.

Mitchell Gold -- HRC Board

Marty Lieberman -- HRC Board

Andy Linsky -- HRC Board

Dana Perlman -- HRC Board

Abby Rubenfeld -- HRC Board

Andrew Tobias -- HRC Board

Lara Schwartz -- Senior Counsel, HRC Heather Wellman -- HRC Field Coordinator

Dan Furmansky -- HRC Senior Field Organizer, West

Sally Green -- HRC Associate Field Director

Robin Margolis, American coordinator of the Bi Women's Cultural Alliance and author [BisɛҳuąƖity: A Practical Guide].

Nancy Alpert [?] -- Treasurer, GLAAD

Judy Gluckstern -- Board of Directors, GLAAD.

Stephen M. Jacoby -- Board of Directors, GLAAD.

Matt Riklin -- Board, GLAAD

Carol Rosenfeld -- Board, GLAAD.

William Weinberger -- Board, GLAAD

Tanya Wexler -- Board, GLAAD.

David Huebner -- GLAAD Counsel.

Ron Schlittler -- Director of Field & Policy, Parents and Friends of Lesbians and gαys [PFLAG].

Craig Ziskin -- Deputy Director of Development, PFLAG.

Debra Weill -- Senior Field & Policy Coordinator, PFLAG.

Dody Goldstein -- Board of Directors, PFLAG.

David Horowitz -- Board of Directors, PFLAG.

Shawn Frank -- Board of Directors, PFLAG.

Leon Weinstein -- Chair, Nominating Committee, PFLAG.

Kate Kendell [?], National Center for Lesbian Rights.

gαyle Rubin -- lesbian author/activist.

Hilary Rosen -- a founding member of the gαy and Lesbian Victory Fund; former board co-chair of the Human Rights Campaign.

Roz Richter, American attorney and activist.

Bob Kunst -- long-time activist in gαy and Jєωιѕн causes."gαy, Lesbian & Straight Education Network" [GLSEN]. Board co-chairs:

Marty Seldman, president  "National gαy & Lesbian Task Force" [NGLTF]. Board co-chairs: .....

Rachel Rosen in Santa Fe, N.M

Dave Fleischer -- Director of Training [political training], NGLTF. Craig Hoffman -- Board of Directors, NGLTF.

Beth Zemsky -- Board, NGLTF. Marsha C. Botzer -- Treasurer, NGLTF.

Jeff Levi -- first, Levi was NGTF's lobbyist, early 1980s [NGTF became NGLTF in 1985]. Later, he was NGLTF executive director.

Bill Rubenstein, J.D. '86, developed the ACLU Lesbian and gαy Rights Project

Martin Duberman -- author/historian; founded the Center for Lesbian and gαy Studies at the City University of New York.

Ben Schatz '81, J.D. '85, is executive director of the gαy and Lesbian Medical Foundation.

Kevin Schaub, American; Executive Director and Dean of the Harvey Milk Institute in San Francisco, the world's largest center for queer studies.


Susan Spielman -- principal/head of Common Ground, an education/consulting firm specializing in workplace sɛҳuąƖ orientation education; her company has worked with hundreds of U.S. organizations, helping them to implement domestic partner benefits plans; co-author of the book Straight Talk About gαys in the Workplace.

Gertrude Stein -- wrote the first openly lesbian novel, "Q.E.D.," in 1903, but it was only published posthumously in 1950.

Rikki Streicher (1925-1994), American activist and businesswoman.

Michael Goff -- founded Out magazine in 1992.

Paulette Goodman -- founder of local chapter [Washington D.C.] of PFLAG and served as President of the National PFLAG organization from 1988-1992.

Jeffrey Newman, American, president and COO of the gαy Financial Network; president and CEO of out.com.

Jim Levin -- New York gαy historian.

Barrett Brick -- GLAA [gαy and Lesbian Activists Alliance] Treasurer.

Robin Tyler -- American comedian [born Arlene Chernick] who was the first openly gαy comic in North America; Tyler is also an activist who was the stage producer for the first three gαy marches on Washington and the national protest coordinator for the "Stop Dr. Laura" campaign; she produces women's comedy and music festivals, and operates a lesbian travel-tour company.

Dr. Bruce Voeller [1935?-1994] [?] American gαy rights activist, molecular biologist, physiologist, and AIDS researcher (pioneer in the use of nonoxynol-9 as a spermicide); cofounder and first executive director of the National gαy Task Force; creator of the Mariposa Foundation [an AIDS prevention research organization].

Mark Elderkin [?] -- co-founded gαy.com.

Leroy Aarons -- American professor, journalist, and founder of the National gαy and Lesbian Journalists Association (1990).

Dr. Donald I. Abrams -- American physician, HIV expert, medical marijuana researcher, and past president of the gαy and Lesbian Medical Association.

Johnny Abush (1952-2000) -- [Canadian]; archivist of the International Jєωιѕн GBLT Archives.

Miriam Ben-Shalom [1948- ], American Army Reserves drill sergeant and gαy activist; in 1986 she won a ten-year legal battle with the Reserves when a court ordered her reinstatement; founder of the gαy, Lesbian, and BisɛҳuąƖ Veterans Association [GLBVA] in 1990, serving as its first president.

Larry Brinkin, American gαy activist who brought the first domestic partnership lawsuit [against Southern Pacific Railroad, 1982].

Rob Eichberg, American psychologist, co-creator of National Coming Out Day [October 11th].

Scott Evertz, American; in April 2001, President Bush appointed him to serve as the Director of the White House Office of National AIDS Policy [ONAP].

Gene Falk, American business executive; Senior Vice President of the Showtime Digital Media Group; part of the team that launched and marketed the U.S. TV series Queer as Folk; Chair of the Board of Directors of the gαy and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation [GLAAD].

Larry Kessler -- founding director in 1983 of the AIDS Action Committee of Massachusetts, the largest AIDS support organization in New England.

David Mixner -- gαy activist, political consultant; co-founder of the Municipal Elections Committee of Los Angeles [MECLA], a group of wealthy gαys and lesbians who became influential in local politics; president Bill Clinton's Special Liaison to the gαy-Lesbian Community.

Dan Savage -- American author of gαy-themed books [The Kid: What Happened After My Boyfriend and I Decided to Go Get Pregnant; Skipping Towards Gomorrah: The Seven Deadly Sins and the Pursuit of Happiness in America] and gαy-themed- sex-advice columnist [Savage Love].
 
Scott Seomin, American entertainment media coordinator for the gαy & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation [GLAAD].

David Sine [?] -- American CEO of C1TV, the first U.S. gαy and lesbian cable TV network.



SOURCE  
 

[Telesphorus]

Look at all the tribal names.

[Traditional Guy 20]

In a better society, Melkite would be locked up for his moral degeneracy and for trying to make ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity "normal."

I have been on FE for a while now and have noticed anytime the sodomite question comes out in the open Vox is always eager to defend them, as if she's the white "lady-in-waiting" (instead of knight) for the fairies.

[Telesphorus]

I have been on FE for a while now and have noticed anytime the sodomite question comes out in the open Vox is always eager to defend them, as if she's the white "lady-in-waiting" (instead of knight) for the fairies.

There are evil people working on the weak-willed and unintelligent to attack the Catholic Faith among "traditional Catholics."

They rely on liberal mods and site owners to enable them.

Let's recall Clare from IA defended Vox's civil marriage to a married man.

We're dealing with weak-minded or bad-willed liberals on these forums. (and generally inside Tradition as well)

[Traditional Guy 20]

There are evil people working on the weak-willed and unintelligent to attack the Catholic Faith among "traditional Catholics."

They rely on liberal mods and site owners to enable them.

Let's recall Clare from IA defended Vox's civil marriage to a married man.

We're dealing with weak-minded or bad-willed liberals on these forums. (and generally inside Tradition as well)

What is IA?

[Telesphorus]

Ignis Ardens forum.

[Roland Deschain]

Does it surprise anyone that a forum which has a "conversion" book entitled: "The FishEaters Wham-Bam Thank You, Ma'am Conversion Booklet"; which is a nice usage of modern nomenclature for a quick, self-serving sex act to help promote traditional Catholicism, tolerates people like Melkite spreading his poison?

[Dellery]

I have been on FE for a while now and have noticed anytime the sodomite question comes out in the open Vox is always eager to defend them, as if she's the white "lady-in-waiting" (instead of knight) for the fairies.

There are evil people working on the weak-willed and unintelligent to attack the Catholic Faith among "traditional Catholics."

They rely on liberal mods and site owners to enable them.

Let's recall Clare from IA defended Vox's civil marriage to a married man.

We're dealing with weak-minded or bad-willed liberals on these forums. (and generally inside Tradition as well)

 Vox has Traditional Church teaching on her homepage, but in the forum she advocates clear heresy, like stating Trads will be surprised at all the non-Catholics in Heaven, and defending ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. Like a true Modernist she is a liar, claiming to be orthodox, yet condescendingly criticizing the dogmas of the Church.

Funny enough, I was just banned from FE for exposing "Scriptorium", by his very own admission, as a crypto-Buddhist.

[Stubborn]

 Vox has Traditional Church teaching on her homepage, but in the forum she advocates clear heresy, like stating Trads will be surprised at all the non-Catholics in Heaven, and defending ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. Like a true Modernist she is a liar, claiming to be orthodox, yet condescendingly criticizing the dogmas of the Church.

Funny enough, I was just banned from FE for exposing "Scriptorium", by his very own admission, as a crypto-Buddhist.

Ha! You got banned for calling out Scriptorium? Sorry but he is one of the many NO defenders who helps make that site the NO promoting site that it is today - you cannot expose someone like him - it's not allowed!

Does it surprise anyone that a forum which has a "conversion" book entitled: "The FishEaters Wham-Bam Thank You, Ma'am Conversion Booklet"; which is a nice usage of modern nomenclature for a quick, self-serving sex act to help promote traditional Catholicism, tolerates people like Melkite spreading his poison?

Agreed - go ahead and explain what the title of the book means to a child.