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Offline Raoul76

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Prayer request
« on: January 04, 2012, 01:22:08 AM »
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  • I am dealing with a major attack of scruples, I had no idea it could be this bad.  My entire body aches.  It's like I have been battered by Mike Tyson, there is actual physical pain from all the worrying, like I'm eating myself alive.  I am presented with this option, and either way looks bad.

      My priest has told me what to do, but my scruples -- or so people tell me -- are putting doubt in my mind, making me wonder if he is telling me to talk myself out of my conscience.  The thing is, if he is wrong, what I'm doing is a potential mortal sin.  The theologians aren't too clear about it.  He says I don't have "positive doubt" about something and to leave it alone.  

    At the back of my mind, I think it is quite clear he is right.  I am just so afraid of that off chance that it is a sin, or that God will accuse me of deceiving myself due to my temporal interests.  My priest is essentially asking me to look away from a potential problem and not to be nosy, when my every instinct is to investigate and research every problem.  But if I do that, I could end up ruining myself here.

    I can't get more specific because, like I said, I have been told not to investigate this further and leave it alone.  Just need some prayers, because this situation is a labyrinth that really threatens to drive me out of my mind.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.


    Offline Alex

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    « Reply #1 on: January 04, 2012, 02:21:23 AM »
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  • The theologian Saint Alphonsus de Liguori (1696-1787) believed that the path to overcoming scruples (a term for obsessions and compulsions) was complete and absolute obedience to one's spiritual advisor. He suffered from scruples himself.

    The suffering that affects scrupulous souls comes, not from the fact that they have a scruple about what they are doing, but from the fear that what they are doing might be sinful and that they are, in fact, committing sin. But they should realize that whoever obeys a competent and holy director does not, in fact, act in doubt but acts with the greatest certainty that one can have here on earth, namely, the certainty which comes from the divine word of Jesus Christ who declares that whoever listens to the instructions of his ministers listens to himself.... In a word, to quote St. Bernard, "The great remedy for scruples is blind obedience to one's confessor."... "Scruples are to be completely disregarded, and one is to do the very opposite to what they suggest, provided one is following the advice of a prudent, competent and devout spiritual director" [apparently quoting Father Wigandt]....

    Gerson [John Gerson (1363-1429)] puts the whole matter succinctly. He says that one must take a very determined stand against scruples. Philip Neri [(1515-1595)] suggested that the best remedy for scruples is to treat them with contempt. In his life it is recorded that as well as advising the accepted remedy of total submission in everything to the judgment of one's confessor, he also advised his penitents to treat scruples with disdain and contempt. His practice with scrupulous persons was to forbid them to confess frequently. And when they did confess to him and mentioned their scruples he ordered them to go to Holy Communion without listening further to their scruples.

    So to conclude. Scrupulous souls should follow the way of obedience.... Moreover, any fear that scrupulous souls may have should be treated with contempt since such fears are not authentic norms of conscience.

    From Alphonsus de Liguori: selected writings, edited by Frederick M. Jones (New York: Paulist Press, 1999), pp. 209-14, 322-3.


    Offline Alex

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    « Reply #2 on: January 04, 2012, 02:29:24 AM »
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  • SCRUPLES

    Scruples are a disease, physical and moral, which produces a sort of derangement of conscience, and causes one to harbor vain fears of having offended God. This is not restricted to beginners. Yet it is found in them as well as in the more advanced souls.

    The term scruple was employed for ages past to designate a weight under which only the most sensitive scales would tilt. in the moral sense, it stands for some trifle which only the most delicate conscience would notice. Hence it is commonly used to designate the anxiety about having offended God which certain souls feel for little or no reason.

    Scruples arise from purely natural causes, and sometime they are due to supernatural intervention.

    A physical cause would be a nervous depression which hinders right judgement and tends to produce the obsessing idea that one has sinned.

    A moral cause could be a meticulous mind that tends to lose itself amid the most trifling causes because it wants to reach absolute certitude about all things; also a beclouded mind that represents God not as a just judge but as a merciless one. Or a mind that confuses feeling with consent especially when the imagination is vivid and long alive. An obstinate mind can also be the cause in that it prefers its own judgement to that of the confessor and tends to let itself be led by impression rather than by reason.

    If both physical and moral causes are present, it is more deeply rooted and difficult to cure the problem.

    Scruples can also arise from a preternatural intervention on the part of God or of the devil.

    God allows us to be obsessed either as a punishment for our pride and/or vain complacency, or as a trial, either for the sake of expiating past sins or for the sake of purifying us, detaching us from spiritual consolations and leading us to a higher degree of sanctity.

    The devil also at times injects his activity to create turmoil in a soul. He persuades us that we are in the state of mortal sin to keep us from receiving Holy Communion, or to prevent us from discharging the duties of our state. He strives to deceive us of the gravity of some act to cause us to sin because of a false conscience.

    There are also many degrees of scruples. Meticulous conscience to transient scruples which are eased upon consultation with a spiritual director, too tenacious and obstinate.


    DISTINCTION BETWEEN A SCRUPULOUS AND DELICATE CONSCIENCE


    Their starting point is not the same. The delicate conscience loves God ardently and, in order to please Him, wants to avoid the least fault, and the slightest wilful imperfection.

    The scrupulous conscience is led on by a certain egotism which causes an inordinate eagerness for absolute certainty of one's state of grace.

    The delicate conscience possesses a horror of sin, and knows its own feebleness. It has a rational, yet quiet fear of displeasing God. The scrupulous conscience harbors vain fear of sinning in every circuмstance.

    The tender conscience knows how to discriminate between mortal and venial sin, and in case of doubt, abides by the judgment of the spiritual director; the scrupulous conscience peevishly questions the decisions of the spiritual director and submits to them only with difficulty.

    Scruples are a real evil to be avoided.

    But a delicate conscience is a treasure.

    Sometimes scruples are universal, bearing in all subjects

    More often scruples bear upon a number of particular subjects, such as past confessions, evil thoughts, blasphemous thoughts, charity, correct pronunciation of words of Consecration, integral recitation of the Divine Office, etc.

    Disadvantages and Advantages of Scruples

    Scruples usually produce effects such as a certain weakening and unbalancing of the nervous system, which in turn depresses bodily health. They can even become a real obsession which can border on a type of insanity.

    They becloud the mind and distort judgment. Loss of true devotion often results because one begins to mistrust even God. And then of course faults, and even grave ones ensue.

    If we know how to accept scruples as a trial and submit ourselves to a wise spiritual director, they can have the advantage of purifying the soul, increasing humility and obedience, and purifying our intentions.

    The remedy for scruples is obedience!

    Once the spiritual director has the confidence of his penitent he must demand blind obedience from him. And if the penitent cannot promise that it should be suggested he seek another director.


    http://www.scripturerosary.com/3_Ways_of_Spiritual_Life.html

    Offline CathMomof7

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    « Reply #3 on: January 04, 2012, 07:24:49 AM »
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  • Raoul, as you know, I suffer from scruples myself.  I will pray very hard for you.

    My only advice to you, it to please listen to your priest.  

    Thank you Alex for your post on scruples.  I have not read this before and it has helped me understand things a bit better.


    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    « Reply #4 on: January 04, 2012, 08:53:02 AM »
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  • Please be assured of my prayers.  :pray:

    Whensoever one has two paths to choose, the exigencies of the interior life demand that he undertake that path which leads more perfectly to self-abnegation: the detachment from self and all other created things is indispensable for the cultivation of an interior life worthy of grace, especially for one who is devoted to Mary Most Holy, according to the spiritual doctrine of St. Louis Marie. You must give yourself over entirely to Mary Most Holy, and everything that belongs to you, especially your infirmities and weaknesses: for, what else have you to offer of yourself?

    Is not true devotion to the Blessed Virgin based on the fact that we have nothing, absolutely nothing, good and true in ourselves, but nonetheless to eschew all discouragements in having recourse to the patronage and tutelage of our Blessed Mother and Queen, in giving ourselves over to filial self-abandonment to the designs of Divine Providence?

    Scruples are nothing more than an inordinate attachment to self in its most subtle form, an egocentricity wherewith the devil lures interior souls into seeking self rather than denying self. It is ultimately an inversion and perversion of the interior life, when scruples are taken to their extreme.

    You are not your own. The Lord God, Who out of the excess of His inexhaustible loving-kindness has created and redeemed you, and given you grace through the Blessed Virgin Mary: it is to Him that you belong, and it is His will that you must seek, not yours.

    Having had a Priest such as your Father Confessor in these evil times, it behooves you to obey him in these matters. If you decide that you know better, then it is the beginning of your ruin.

    Leave off self and all other created things, and manfully resolve to abandon yourself to the designs of God's most holy will, no matter how obscure or perplexing they may be to you. Be a good slave and child of Mary Most Holy, and trust in her powerful patronage and tutelage.

    Be of good cheer, for these things have come to pass so that you may know how wear and infirm you are, how unworthy of grace or anything good you are: that you may all the more have confidence in Jesus and Mary, and become more dependent on them, knowing that it is Their love and mercy that preserve and guide you, and you are to ascribe nothing good to yourself.

    Again, please be assured of my prayers.
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.


    Offline s2srea

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    « Reply #5 on: January 04, 2012, 11:09:21 AM »
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  •  :pray:

    I will offer you up to Our Lady

    Offline jlamos

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    « Reply #6 on: January 04, 2012, 12:37:29 PM »
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  •  :pray:

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    « Reply #7 on: January 04, 2012, 03:33:01 PM »
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  •  :pray:
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline Adesto

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    « Reply #8 on: January 04, 2012, 05:18:27 PM »
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  • Just a flying visit to promise prayers and to urge you to follow your priest's advice where obedience is concerned.

    With the worst scruples, it's as though we become blind. We can't see anything, nothing seems to make sense any more. We seem to be incapable of making even the most basic judgements with common sense. It's like a diabolical disorientation where down seems up and up seems down. That is why we need blind obedience to our spiritual director.

    Remember that he has the grace of state to help him guide you.

    It's the most direct and powerful to get over scruples; complete and utter obedience. If you think about it, obedience is the best form of sacrifice, it humbles us, it puts us under the guidance of our spiritual director. It's a direct antidote to the pride we are tempted to through scruples (even though it doesn't feel like we're trying to be proud, it feels like we're trying to be virtuous by listening to our scruples, a master stroke of the devil!). The end result of scruples is pride; the opposing virtue must therefore be humility.The devil HATES obedience and humility!

    Pray to Our Lady, also I would recommend Venerable Anne de Guigne and Blessed Marie Celine of the Presentation, two patrons of our family who have worked wonders for us.

    With prayers  :pray:

    Edit: Just remembered something else when I read this:
    Quote
    I am just so afraid of that off chance that it is a sin, or that God will accuse me of deceiving myself due to my temporal interests.


    A very good and wise priest told someone, while on retreat, that the fear of "accidentally" sinning and being "caught out" by God is to totally misunderstand the Mercy of God. He said "It's only by the great mercy of God that we could have the chance to get to Heaven anyway, not because we deserve Heaven by clearing our conscience a thousand times through scrupulous confessions." Then he said: "It's not like God is going to look at us and say "What a bargain!""!!!

    Join the Rosary Apostolate of Our Lady of Perpetual Succour: www.virgoclemens.bravehost.com

    Offline Raoul76

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    « Reply #9 on: January 05, 2012, 08:23:06 PM »
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  • Thanks for the prayers, especially from those who I didn't realize were aware of my existence!  

    I tend to think that, unless I'm suffering in the most horrible of ways, that God doesn't love me and I'm doing something wrong.  That is when I probably begin to manufacture my own crosses -- rather than just accepting the ones that are given to me.

    The prayers must have helped, because the very next day after posting this, most of the fog had lifted.  This was a really serious attack of the devil.  It was the kind of thing that makes you want to throw yourself into debauchery just to escape the pain.  Although I am too aware of how the devil works to fall for that; it was still that type of pain.  The type of pain that makes you want to give up because you think the faith is too hard.  That is the real danger of scruples, you put a burden on yourself that no one can bear.

    I wish my priest would discuss these things with me, rather than say "Just trust me."  But maybe when we talked I wasn't ready to hear it, and he could sense that.  I see this whole problem as FAR more multidimensional and complex than I did just a couple days ago.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Darcy

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    « Reply #10 on: January 05, 2012, 10:18:53 PM »
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  • Make sure you told your confessor the whole story.

    Then sleep for at least a full day. No caffeine or nicotine. Maybe some natural calming agents like wine, herbal tea, melatonin or valerian. Sleep will turn your mind off and allow you to acheive some clarity.

    Roscoe's herbal remedies don't work for everyone and can make scruples worse.

    And for some extra insurance I will :pray: for you.


    Offline Graham

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    « Reply #11 on: January 06, 2012, 10:18:19 AM »
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  • Even if the request is now 'closed', as it were, I have offered a prayer for you today.

    Offline Sigismund

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    « Reply #12 on: January 06, 2012, 09:21:42 PM »
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  •  :pray:
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir