Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: St. Joseph the Worker - on Communist May Day - St. Joseph the Red  (Read 1427 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Matthew

  • Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 31195
  • Reputation: +27111/-494
  • Gender: Male
Today was the feast of "St. Joseph the Worker" which was instituted in 1950.

The Gregorian chant for this feast is so modern and ugly, that even St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary used to "Psalm tone" the propers for this feast (when I was there, 2000 to 2003), even though this was otherwise NEVER done at the Seminary. Every Sung Mass was normally 100% full Gregorian chant propers -- even when this seriously lengthened the duration of Mass.

The only exception, when the seminarians used the abbreviated "Psalm tone" chant propers, was St. Joseph the Worker's day (May 1st). The professor in charge of Gregorian Chant at the seminary, Fr. Thierry Gaudray, even approved of this.

Isn't it interesting that such a feast is new enough to be criticized like this, but old enough to be used at many (most?) Traditional chapels?

I mean, it's a fact that the Communists hold May 1st to be an important feast day. And the Pope even emphasized how St. Joseph is the model and patron of workers (rather than the Communist party, which was always jockeying for this position!). It's obvious Pope Pius XII was trying (wisely or unwisely) to co-opt or steal the thunder of the Communists, who are traditionally demagogues trying to mobilize the "workers" to get what's theirs from the nasty capitalists.

I'll never forget some of the Canadian seminarians at S.T.A.S. used to tongue-in-cheek call this feast day, "St. Joseph the Red" (the "red" referring, of course, to communism). I thought it was quite witty.
Want to say "thank you"? 
You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com


Offline Franciscan Solitary

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 265
  • Reputation: +163/-129
  • Gender: Male
St. Joseph the Worker - on Communist May Day - St. Joseph the Red
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2016, 12:51:25 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!3
  • Quote from: Matthew
    Today was the feast of "St. Joseph the Worker" which was instituted in 1950.

    The Gregorian chant for this feast is so modern and ugly, that even St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary used to "Psalm tone" the propers for this feast (when I was there, 2000 to 2003), even though this was otherwise NEVER done at the Seminary. Every Sung Mass was normally 100% full Gregorian chant propers -- even when this seriously lengthened the duration of Mass.

    The only exception, when the seminarians used the abbreviated "Psalm tone" chant propers, was St. Joseph the Worker's day (May 1st). The professor in charge of Gregorian Chant at the seminary, Fr. Thierry Gaudray, even approved of this.

    Isn't it interesting that such a feast is new enough to be criticized like this, but old enough to be used at many (most?) Traditional chapels?

    I mean, it's a fact that the Communists hold May 1st to be an important feast day. And the Pope even emphasized how St. Joseph is the model and patron of workers (rather than the Communist party, which was always jockeying for this position!). It's obvious Pope Pius XII was trying (wisely or unwisely) to co-opt or steal the thunder of the Communists, who are traditionally demagogues trying to mobilize the "workers" to get what's theirs from the nasty capitalists.

    I'll never forget some of the Canadian seminarians at S.T.A.S. used to tongue-in-cheek call this feast day, "St. Joseph the Red" (the "red" referring, of course, to communism). I thought it was quite witty.

    This line of thought is very strange.  Within our Roman Catholic tradition it's more than a little marginal and Jansenist-oriented.  Since when has mainstream Catholicism not been both pro-business and pro-labor all at the same time?  We have always sympathised with both the cultured wealthy few and the morally upright lower classes.  Social justice is an absolutely Roman Catholic tradition since the beginning of the Church in the Ancient Roman world and the Jansenist-like desire to limit justice to private and personal matters is completely foreign to our entire mainstream Catholic heritage.  It smacks more of Thomas Malthus than of Jesus Christ.

    Belittling Catholic feast days on the feast day itself is also more than a little impious.  The disdain of the Novus Ordo for the Feast of the Ascension shouldn't be imitated by us on the holy Feastday of St. Joseph the Worker.  "Workers" are precisely not the concern of the Reds, a faction that serves the selfish interests of fanatic intellectuals against both workers and business about equally.  Insofar as the Reds care about anything that would surely be the тαℓмυd and certainly not something so opposed to their elitist philo-semite snobbery as the working class.

    The dangerous lack of compassion among SSPX seminarians outlined in the above comment should throw some light on the subsequent collapse of the SSPX into the Great Apostasy of the Marxist Novus Ordo.   When even seminarians lack compassion for the poor majority of mankind, which is after all simply the working class by another name, then they will certainly lack the moral strength to take on the Novus Ordo as Our Lord expects them to do and readers should easily recognise that recent events bear this out with starkest clarity.  

    Justice is not an un-Catholic notion.  On the contrary, a passion for justice is the most frequent personal sign of Roman Catholicism among men throughout our incomparably lone and glorious history.  This lowly Franciscan must apologise for offence given by this strident defence of the immemorial Catholic championing of justice, and especially of social justice.  But the most sacred principles of our holy religion must be defended!  The glorious feast of St. Joseph the Worker should be a day of joy in every Roman Catholic heart, not a time for Jansenist-like hardheartedness and cynicism.

    Our Lord is also the Almighty Lord of Compassion and Social Justice.  He is proud to be known among men on earth as nothing less than the proud and loyal son of St. Joseph the Worker.  We should defend the sacred honor of St. Joseph without hesitation.  

    Gross impieties in a Jansenist vein should have no place among us.

         


    Offline Traditional Guy 20

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3427
    • Reputation: +1662/-48
    • Gender: Male
    St. Joseph the Worker - on Communist May Day - St. Joseph the Red
    « Reply #2 on: May 03, 2016, 01:02:30 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!3
  • I am no Communist and I was glad to celebrate May Day by making sure my butt did not work, to honour labour. May Day shows the true hard workers of the nation are always the workers who not only serve in the military but build a nation's industrial might. If anything May Day should be honoured by burghers to ingratiate themselves with the working class and show they do care about them.

    Jesus was the one who was the original revolutionary against Jєωιѕн capitalism, which is why the Jєωs nailed him to the cross.

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31195
    • Reputation: +27111/-494
    • Gender: Male
    St. Joseph the Worker - on Communist May Day - St. Joseph the Red
    « Reply #3 on: May 03, 2016, 01:20:34 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Traditional Guy 20

    Jesus was the one who was the original revolutionary against Jєωιѕн capitalism, which is why the Jєωs nailed him to the cross.


    I don't like this line of thought. It strikes me as Modernist.

    Jesus wasn't a communist. He wasn't a revolutionary either.

    He preached the Gospel of salvation, and restored the One True Faith. He restored morality to its primordial purity. He also fulfilled the Old Testament and all the Prophecies by starting the New Testament in His Blood.

    He wasn't a demagogue, rabble-rouser, revolutionary, hippie, activist, extremist, union leader, communist, or any of those titles which are millions of miles beneath Him.

    Ghandi or Martin Luther King might have been many of those things. Our Lord was not.

    Our Lord Jesus Christ was in a class by Himself: the God-Man
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com

    Offline Traditional Guy 20

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3427
    • Reputation: +1662/-48
    • Gender: Male
    St. Joseph the Worker - on Communist May Day - St. Joseph the Red
    « Reply #4 on: May 03, 2016, 01:48:16 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Matthew
    I don't like this line of thought. It strikes me as Modernist.

    Jesus wasn't a communist. He wasn't a revolutionary either.

    He preached the Gospel of salvation, and restored the One True Faith. He restored morality to its primordial purity. He also fulfilled the Old Testament and all the Prophecies by starting the New Testament in His Blood.

    He wasn't a demagogue, rabble-rouser, revolutionary, hippie, activist, extremist, union leader, communist, or any of those titles which are millions of miles beneath Him.

    Ghandi or Martin Luther King might have been many of those things. Our Lord was not.

    Our Lord Jesus Christ was in a class by Himself: the God-Man


    The American way of thinking makes it to where there is only capitalism and Communism. Other countries realise there are other systems of government beides those two system, which both are completely Jєωιѕн in origin.

    Let me put it this way: Christ would hate an economic system where the economy is dominated by Big Business, where materialism is rampant, where the rich control how a country operates, where Jєωs plan to enslave non-Jєωs, where workers are paid a miserable wage, where people are homeless and unemployed, where wealth and property is everything, etc.


    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    St. Joseph the Worker - on Communist May Day - St. Joseph the Red
    « Reply #5 on: May 04, 2016, 02:15:49 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Matthew
    Today was the feast of "St. Joseph the Worker" which was instituted in 1950.

    The Gregorian chant for this feast is so modern and ugly, that even St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary used to "Psalm tone" the propers for this feast (when I was there, 2000 to 2003), even though this was otherwise NEVER done at the Seminary. Every Sung Mass was normally 100% full Gregorian chant propers -- even when this seriously lengthened the duration of Mass.

    The only exception, when the seminarians used the abbreviated "Psalm tone" chant propers, was St. Joseph the Worker's day (May 1st). The professor in charge of Gregorian Chant at the seminary, Fr. Thierry Gaudray, even approved of this.

    Isn't it interesting that such a feast is new enough to be criticized like this, but old enough to be used at many (most?) Traditional chapels?

    I mean, it's a fact that the Communists hold May 1st to be an important feast day. And the Pope even emphasized how St. Joseph is the model and patron of workers (rather than the Communist party, which was always jockeying for this position!). It's obvious Pope Pius XII was trying (wisely or unwisely) to co-opt or steal the thunder of the Communists, who are traditionally demagogues trying to mobilize the "workers" to get what's theirs from the nasty capitalists.

    I'll never forget some of the Canadian seminarians at S.T.A.S. used to tongue-in-cheek call this feast day, "St. Joseph the Red" (the "red" referring, of course, to communism). I thought it was quite witty.


    Why not use the psalm tones from St Joseph on March 19?

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    St. Joseph the Worker - on Communist May Day - St. Joseph the Red
    « Reply #6 on: May 04, 2016, 02:21:54 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Matthew
    Today was the feast of "St. Joseph the Worker" which was instituted in 1950.

    Isn't it interesting that such a feast is new enough to be criticized like this, but old enough to be used at many (most?) Traditional chapels?

    I mean, it's a fact that the Communists hold May 1st to be an important feast day. And the Pope even emphasized how St. Joseph is the model and patron of workers (rather than the Communist party, which was always jockeying for this position!). It's obvious Pope Pius XII was trying (wisely or unwisely) to co-opt or steal the thunder of the Communists, who are traditionally demagogues trying to mobilize the "workers" to get what's theirs from the nasty capitalists.

    I'll never forget some of the Canadian seminarians at S.T.A.S. used to tongue-in-cheek call this feast day, "St. Joseph the Red" (the "red" referring, of course, to communism). I thought it was quite witty.


    Actually it was Pius XII reaching out to the modern pagans. It hass always been a part of Catholic traditioni to baptize pagan icons and give them Catholic meanings. The cathedral of Mexico City was built on the ruins of an Aztec pyramid. The Christmas tree came from what was originally a pagan usage. Pope Pius XII was looking at who the modern pagans were and gave their parade a Christian meaning.

    Offline JezusDeKoning

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2940
    • Reputation: +1090/-2220
    • Gender: Male
    St. Joseph the Worker - on Communist May Day - St. Joseph the Red
    « Reply #7 on: May 04, 2016, 08:03:55 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I wonder how this holiday is viewed in those heavily influenced by "liberation theology" like Central America.
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...


    Offline Franciscan Solitary

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 265
    • Reputation: +163/-129
    • Gender: Male
    St. Joseph the Worker - on Communist May Day - St. Joseph the Red
    « Reply #8 on: May 04, 2016, 11:37:27 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!2
  • Quote from: poche
    Quote from: Matthew
    Today was the feast of "St. Joseph the Worker" which was instituted in 1950.

    Isn't it interesting that such a feast is new enough to be criticized like this, but old enough to be used at many (most?) Traditional chapels?

    I mean, it's a fact that the Communists hold May 1st to be an important feast day. And the Pope even emphasized how St. Joseph is the model and patron of workers (rather than the Communist party, which was always jockeying for this position!). It's obvious Pope Pius XII was trying (wisely or unwisely) to co-opt or steal the thunder of the Communists, who are traditionally demagogues trying to mobilize the "workers" to get what's theirs from the nasty capitalists.

    I'll never forget some of the Canadian seminarians at S.T.A.S. used to tongue-in-cheek call this feast day, "St. Joseph the Red" (the "red" referring, of course, to communism). I thought it was quite witty.


    Actually it was Pius XII reaching out to the modern pagans. It hass always been a part of Catholic traditioni to baptize pagan icons and give them Catholic meanings. The cathedral of Mexico City was built on the ruins of an Aztec pyramid. The Christmas tree came from what was originally a pagan usage. Pope Pius XII was looking at who the modern pagans were and gave their parade a Christian meaning.

    A tremendously meaningful insight, Mr. Poche.  Catholicism is much more "Pagan" than Jєωιѕн and stridently opposes the hateful racial exclusiveness and brutal anti-social snobbery of Judaism.  The constant Protestant hysteria about the Catholics being somehow "Pagans" and insufficiently Jєωιѕн has some basis in fact, although the true meaning of that is the reverse from what the corrupted Protestants wrongly presume.  

    In any case our religion is the only truly universal one and the workers of the world can only truly unite through Roman Catholicism and not in any other way.  Least of all through the ultra-Jєωιѕн Marxism that only serves to bring the incomparable horrors of the psychopath тαℓмυd up from the burning depths of Hell to brutalise the weak and poor working class majority of this world.

    Long live St. Joseph the Worker!

     

    Offline confederate catholic

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 813
    • Reputation: +285/-43
    • Gender: Male
    St. Joseph the Worker - on Communist May Day - St. Joseph the Red
    « Reply #9 on: May 04, 2016, 01:41:46 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • this feast suppressed the more traditional feast of St Joseph's Patronage of the Catholic Church[/i]. i guess you think that the fact that St Joseph had a job is more important than his protecting the church. the feast is so bad that the only Father or doctor quoted in matins is St Albert the Great who had trouble justifying the title of workman, after all this is what the Fathers mocked heretics for being " He was a fuller, or he was a butcher"  
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا

    Offline Traditional Guy 20

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3427
    • Reputation: +1662/-48
    • Gender: Male
    St. Joseph the Worker - on Communist May Day - St. Joseph the Red
    « Reply #10 on: May 04, 2016, 06:47:36 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • Quote from: Franciscan Solitary

    A tremendously meaningful insight, Mr. Poche.  Catholicism is much more "Pagan" than Jєωιѕн and stridently opposes the hateful racial exclusiveness and brutal anti-social snobbery of Judaism.  The constant Protestant hysteria about the Catholics being somehow "Pagans" and insufficiently Jєωιѕн has some basis in fact, although the true meaning of that is the reverse from what the corrupted Protestants wrongly presume.


    The Jєωιѕн religion is monstrous. They are willing to kidnap children to sacrifice to their Jєωιѕн god, along with them devaluing animals and doing the kosher slaughter.


    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    St. Joseph the Worker - on Communist May Day - St. Joseph the Red
    « Reply #11 on: May 05, 2016, 01:19:25 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: confederate catholic
    this feast suppressed the more traditional feast of St Joseph's Patronage of the Catholic Church[/i]. i guess you think that the fact that St Joseph had a job is more important than his protecting the church. the feast is so bad that the only Father or doctor quoted in matins is St Albert the Great who had trouble justifying the title of workman, after all this is what the Fathers mocked heretics for being " He was a fuller, or he was a butcher"  


    No, this does not suppress St Joseph as patron of the Catholic Church. The holiness of St Joseph is too great for that. Rather it adds another title of honor for all of us to honor St Joseph.

    Offline Franciscan Solitary

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 265
    • Reputation: +163/-129
    • Gender: Male
    St. Joseph the Worker - on Communist May Day - St. Joseph the Red
    « Reply #12 on: May 06, 2016, 03:57:01 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • Quote from: Matthew
    The Gregorian chant for this feast is so modern and ugly, that even St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary used to "Psalm tone" the propers for this feast (when I was there, 2000 to 2003), even though this was otherwise NEVER done at the Seminary. Every Sung Mass was normally 100% full Gregorian chant propers -- even when this seriously lengthened the duration of Mass.

    The only exception, when the seminarians used the abbreviated "Psalm tone" chant propers, was St. Joseph the Worker's day (May 1st). The professor in charge of Gregorian Chant at the seminary, Fr. Thierry Gaudray, even approved of this.

    The Feast’s texts in the Missal and Breviary are magnificent and completely appropriate to the Feast. The Office and its antiphons are beautiful (“Christ became worthy to be the son of an artisan”), and the Introit is sung in a beautiful and joyful 7th Mode.  The readings of Matins include the passage in Genesis about how work was dignified before the Fall, as well as the writings of Pius XII establishing this Feast day.  The Chant for this day is quite fine and Fr. Thierry Gaudray has apparently been sorely afflicted with the sour "French disease" of Jansenism.

    No "Psalm tones" for the Feast's propers are needed.  The Gregorian chant propers of the Church of Rome can always stand up on their own without help from anyone and there is no reason to hide them as if we were somehow ashamed of the joyful Solemnity of the legally recognised father of God Almighty.




       

    Offline Franciscan Solitary

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 265
    • Reputation: +163/-129
    • Gender: Male
    St. Joseph the Worker - on Communist May Day - St. Joseph the Red
    « Reply #13 on: May 06, 2016, 04:20:28 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!2
  • Quote from: poche
    Quote from: confederate catholic
    this feast suppressed the more traditional feast of St Joseph's Patronage of the Catholic Church[/i]. i guess you think that the fact that St Joseph had a job is more important than his protecting the church. the feast is so bad that the only Father or doctor quoted in matins is St Albert the Great who had trouble justifying the title of workman, after all this is what the Fathers mocked heretics for being " He was a fuller, or he was a butcher"  


    No, this does not suppress St Joseph as patron of the Catholic Church. The holiness of St Joseph is too great for that. Rather it adds another title of honor for all of us to honor St Joseph.

    Those in the know are aware that St. Joseph was the Chief Architect of Herod's Temple in Jerusalem.  To be a great builder and architect is the profession of kings and therefore St. Joseph did not have a "job" as we understand the term.  When St. Joseph worked with wood it was more magical and mystical than prosaic; he also had to feign a low social status to escape Herod's secret police after the visit of the Magi at the Epiphany of the King of Kings and Lord of Lords in the City of David and the Feast of St. Joseph the Worker also presents the true dignity of Catholic labor with a skill not to be easily found anywhere else.

    The above snarky reference to St. Albert the Great is not great and the Feast of St. Joseph in May in no way lessens the great honors rendered to him.  Our Lord is no mean fuller or butcher but, like his legal father, a Royal Chief Architect of kingdoms and worlds.  And the word used for St. Joseph, "Tekton", also refers to the teaching of the Divine Mysteries.  Our Lord is therefore also the hereditary Chief Teacher of the Mysteries of the Universe and of the Kingdom of God.
     

    Offline confederate catholic

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 813
    • Reputation: +285/-43
    • Gender: Male
    St. Joseph the Worker - on Communist May Day - St. Joseph the Red
    « Reply #14 on: May 06, 2016, 01:43:08 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    St. Joseph was the Chief Architect of Herod's Temple in Jerusalem.


    do they tell Freemasons that now?
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا