Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: a challenge to all  (Read 1966 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline spouse of Jesus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1903
  • Reputation: +336/-4
  • Gender: Female
a challenge to all
« on: December 11, 2009, 11:56:35 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •   to all those who think that their choices are their own. to all those who believe too much in freedom of human will. This post is going to prove the fact, that even when you taste a food and think it is delicious, it is not YOU who feel this way, it is rather the society's beliefe engraved in your mind.
      Even when you are alone in privacy of your own room, with nobody seeing you, even if you believe yourself to be a free thinker, who accepts nothing just because "people say so" you are going to see how great is the influence of popular ideas on you, however foolish and unfounded they may be.
      When anyone of us see a woman and judge her to beautiful or ugly, he is still under the influence of society's definition of what is atractive and what is not. When a man sees a woman and feels his heart melting and wondering how such a beauty could exist in the world of mortals, he can swaer with his own life that it is HE himself and HIS OWN HEART that wants her, but he is mistaken. He must rather say:" this woman has everything that people call beautifull"

      on the bellow links you can see the images of favorite wives of King Naser-aldin of persia (iran) you will call them ugly, but they were deemed exreemly beautiful and "babe" according to beauty standards of that time! When you say they are ugly you prove the effect of society and people's word on yourself!

    enjoy!


      http://nancyahwazi.blogfa.com/post-51.aspx

    I must mention that the king so loved them as to compose poems in their praise, and causing himself many troubles to reach them!


    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6600
    • Reputation: +615/-5
    • Gender: Male
    a challenge to all
    « Reply #1 on: December 11, 2009, 11:58:23 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • so...you are against Free will then? or too much empehsis?
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline spouse of Jesus

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1903
    • Reputation: +336/-4
    • Gender: Female
    a challenge to all
    « Reply #2 on: December 11, 2009, 12:30:29 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •   I don't know!
    But can anyone of us "chose" or "decide" to consider them beautiful? We say that love is a free choice, but no man in today's world can chose such a woman to be his wife. Nobody can see them atractive even if he tries hard.

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31182
    • Reputation: +27095/-494
    • Gender: Male
    a challenge to all
    « Reply #3 on: December 11, 2009, 12:38:23 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • First of all, I must point out that beauty is an objective standard. It has to do with symmetry, etc.

    Nevertheless...

    People are comfortable/attracted to what they're used to -- what they see all the time.

    I grew up with 2 sisters who didn't use makeup/earrings, and had long, straight dark brown hair. My mom used minimal makeup, and had straight brown hair. Guess what my wife looks like? Doesn't use makeup/earrings and has long, straight dark brown hair. It's what I'm comfortable around and therefore find "attractive". Even before I met my wife, I was always attracted to natural beauty and didn't care for the "fakeness" of makeup. I just didn't feel "at home" around women who wore lots of makeup.

    Furthermore, my wife is of primarily German heritage. That's also true of my mother's side of my family. So I also found someone of my own race attractive. That, too, is very normal and not something to be ashamed of.

    Of course, if you're looking for a superficial relationship (pleasure, hobbies/activities in common, etc.) then it's easy to "go outside what you're used to" -- but if you're looking for a REAL match, a soulmate, you need to find someone who has something in common.

    Things like attitude toward money are important. My wife AND myself both grew up in lower-middle-class families, where we didn't have a lot of luxuries. So we're both frugal now. If she was used to being rich, and having lots of comforts, there would be tension between us.

    So it's good to look for someone from a similar economic background as well.

    Matthew
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com

    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6600
    • Reputation: +615/-5
    • Gender: Male
    a challenge to all
    « Reply #4 on: December 11, 2009, 12:50:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Outward beauty is the first thing we see, naturally...as we get to know the person more, we need to look inward, see their soul-are they caring, compassionate, faithful, faith filled,etc....
    No shame in wanting to look for someone within ones own community...

    Matthew, like your descriptions, miss those days in teh 70's, early 80's when women had more natural look and femininty....

    God built wihin us a natural attraction to opposite sex and made things attractive to use-hence some like redheads, some do not,etc...it is not fake, but ultimately,it counts more on the inside and that is where we need to focus and judge......

    a lot of nice looking people later turn out to be phony......

    is this at all helpful? I hope.....

    Not sure what you mean by last statement....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline spouse of Jesus

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1903
    • Reputation: +336/-4
    • Gender: Female
    a challenge to all
    « Reply #5 on: December 11, 2009, 01:07:49 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •   By the last statement I meant that our free will is perhaps affected by what we hear from others. Because we are told that a fat mustached beared woman is ugly, we see them ugly, while that king who surely had many other options, chose them!

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31182
    • Reputation: +27095/-494
    • Gender: Male
    a challenge to all
    « Reply #6 on: December 11, 2009, 05:01:25 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Yes, there is a fascination with what is different sometimes. But that's not the same thing as leading to a satisfying, happy, harmonious, lifetime marriage.

    It is a fact that most "gansta rap" music -- the genre of rap "sung" mostly by black men about living in the ghetto, selling drugs, prostitution, shooting people, beating people up -- is purchased by white, suburban males of middle class, upper-middle class, and upper-class families. Basically, it's purchased by people about as far from "Ghetto life" as you can get.

    There's another, related saying, "The grass is always greener on the other side." But we know that the saying, when taken correctly, means the exact opposite. The grass always SEEMS to be greener on the other side, but is not.

    Matthew
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com

    Offline Elizabeth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4845
    • Reputation: +2194/-15
    • Gender: Female
    a challenge to all
    « Reply #7 on: December 11, 2009, 05:20:47 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The lady has a little moustache problem?  :detective:


    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31182
    • Reputation: +27095/-494
    • Gender: Male
    a challenge to all
    « Reply #8 on: December 12, 2009, 09:24:08 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Boniface
    Quote from: ChantCd
    Yes, there is a fascination with what is different sometimes. But that's not the same thing as leading to a satisfying, happy, harmonious, lifetime marriage.


     But why couldn't it be? A white man who false in love with an asian women because he finds them attractive because they are different, cannot develop a lasting and satisfying relationship and marriage with her soleyly because of race?


    You need to learn how to think clearly, and understand exactly what a person writes, with no distortion.

    I said that the "fascination with what is different" is not the same thing as leading to a satisfying, happy, harmonious, lifetime marriage.

    In other words, most of the time a "fascination with what is different" does NOT lead you in the direction you need to go. It can. I never said it couldn't. But it's not exactly the most prudent course of action, if you're looking for a life-long happy marriage.

    Fascination with "the different" leads to things like adultery!

    Let's step aside from race, and move on to economic background. If your wife is from a rich family, and you're from a poor one, you will always be arguing about money and what constitutes a necessity. She will consider makeup, frozen meals, gym memberships, eating out, nice clothes, etc. to be a necessity since she was never without them. Frugality will be foreign to her, and she will have a difficult time with it.

    I'm stating this matter-of-fact. I'm not accusing anyone on here of anything. But even if the daughter of a wealthy family is trying her best to be a good Catholic, she will have a different perspective than the man whose family formed countless habits of frugality (packing lunches to eat on the way home from Mass on Sunday instead of eating out, getting haircuts at home, etc.)

    Either she will have to be willing to "do without" and feel like a beggar, or HE will have to get used to "throwing money away" -- all the time -- on things he doesn't feel are necessary. Either way, it's a tension that will never end.

    Matthew
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com

    Offline littlerose

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 351
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    a challenge to all
    « Reply #9 on: December 12, 2009, 09:44:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Those women look like Frida Kahlo, the Mexican artist!

    Thank you for a good chuckle. I think you are taking the question of freedom of choice a little too narrowly, but it is always interesting to think about our standards of beauty.

    Modern standards are really quite ugly. Starved bodies are being pushed by a misogynist fashion world dominated by ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, who of course hate us women in a way no heterosɛҳuąƖ male can afford to.

    As an artist, I often sketch and paint all kinds of bodies in life-drawing classes. There is an inner beauty that comes through each one that cannot be denied, and has nothing to do with conventional beauty.

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31182
    • Reputation: +27095/-494
    • Gender: Male
    a challenge to all
    « Reply #10 on: December 12, 2009, 10:44:19 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • CM is rather...severe...in his positions, you will find.

    Matthew
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com


    Offline Alex

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1407
    • Reputation: +265/-4
    • Gender: Female
    a challenge to all
    « Reply #11 on: December 13, 2009, 02:40:56 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Baby study suggests beauty is not in the eye of the beholder

    Babies come into the world with a genetic predisposition to favouring pretty faces rather than ugly ones, according to a new study.

    The five-year programme at Exeter University was the first to examine newborn infants' reactions to a series of 30 photographs of female faces.

    Dr Alan Slater, a psychology lecturer in child infancy who led the research, said he was surprised by the findings.

    "To my complete surprise there was a strong effect of attractive and unattractive photos on infants." he said.

    "I didn't for one moment believe we'd get these kinds of results from newborns. I was convinced it was a learned process. Our research shows that perception of beauty is something genetic rather than socially constructed."

    Slater and eight researchers showed photos of white female models and non-models to babies for up to five minutes.

    They studied nearly 100 babies up to the age of three days and found a significant difference in the time babies looked at attractive and unattractive photographs.

    "They would spend 60-65% of the time looking at the attractive face, " Slater said.

    Slater's team also swapped the internal features - eyes, nose and mouth - of the attractive face with those of the unattractive face.

    "The babies were more responsive to the internal features, " said Slater. "This means these features are what the infants used to determine the attractiveness of the face."

    Researchers also turned some images upside down, and the babies spent more time looking at faces in the correct position. "This suggests that the baby comes into the world with an inborn, innate representation of the human face that is orientated in the correct position, " said Slater.

    "It is important from an evolutionary point of view that the baby recognises that it is a face and is part of a human. It helps the baby to develop human relationships."

    Slater's research team has interpreted the results of the study in a number of ways.

    "The babies' behaviour could be down to a prototype formation, which is when you see lots of faces and form a prototype so you can recognise what a face looks like, " he said.

    "Our understanding is that babies like to look at attractive faces because they most resembles the prototype they've got in their brains.

    "Given that we've found this in newborn infants who haven't seen that many faces it suggests that they come into the world with an in- built representation of a face which happens to correspond to an attractive face."

    Slater rejected the argument that perception of beauty is a learned process.

    He said: "If the concept of beauty is an entirely learned characteristic then the public wouldn't consistently pick the same people as being attractive.

    If it was learned, it would mean infants seizing on their mothers, whatever she looked like, would regard her as being attractive.

    "This would lead some to regard people like Angelina Jolie as being less beautiful but that's not the case.

    "You may love your mother to bits but you will recognise that she is not the most beautiful woman in the world."

    Dr Gwyneth DohertySneddon, senior psychology lecturer at Stirling University in child development, said: "A fair bit of evolutionary psychology has been done which suggests visual perception is innate, but I think culture has a role to play too. There will be innate predisposition but that's not to say that that perception will continue throughout your life.

    "I'd say most psychologists would like to think that there is an interplay between culture and what is inherent."

    Slater said: "You could say that beauty is in the eye of beholder to some extent, but there is some kind of external standard against which we judge people to be beautiful.

    This judgement appears to be part of a genetic inheritance."

    Offline Alex

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1407
    • Reputation: +265/-4
    • Gender: Female
    a challenge to all
    « Reply #12 on: December 13, 2009, 03:59:48 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: CM


    Thank you for the consensus Alex.


    When I was a sociology student in college (during the early 90's), I learned about a similar study - but instead of newborns, it was done with babies between the ages of 1 and 2 years old. They brought in a pretty woman to hold the baby and then an unattractive woman to hold the baby. The babies smiled and stared at the attractive female more than they did the unattractive one.

    Offline littlerose

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 351
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    a challenge to all
    « Reply #13 on: December 13, 2009, 12:41:40 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I'd like to see more detail about what "attractive" meant to these studies.

    In my own courses of Child Development in 1979-80 as a student, there was one that showed newborns responding to simple black circles inside white triangles and smily mouths as faces.

    My assumption about "attractive" here is that the models would have smoother skin, more enhanced eyes, and also know how to look directly at the camera, all of which could enhance the infants' responses compared to wrinkled or frowning or otherwise confusing signals presented in the other photographs.

    The same goes for the in-person experiment. How much more at-ease were the professionals compared with people who may have been misinformed about the purpose of the experiment? (a common part of this type of experiment, after all, is to mislead the participants so that they will not contaminate the results with their own intentions)

    Babies definitely sense even the slightest tension in anyone who holds them. Aromas, too, might have played a role: was there any checking of perfumes among the models as compared with the other women?

    Because you do have to be careful of the first steps of going down the eugenics highway.


    Offline parentsfortruth

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3821
    • Reputation: +2664/-26
    • Gender: Female
    a challenge to all
    « Reply #14 on: December 13, 2009, 12:44:31 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • What exactly is wrong with Tradition in Action, please?
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,