Author Topic: A Catholic Gentlemans Wardrobe (Read 3100 times)

Coastal GA Trad · « **on:** June 19, 2013, 11:46:32 AM »

I was reading another topic on this forum that was discussing women clothing options and I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread about what a Catholic gentleman should wear in his day to day life. I personally believe that part of the restoration of Christendom will have to involve a return to sane clothing ( the return of men to wearing ties would be a good example) and getting rid of the 60's, hippie inspired fashion that is so common place in todays western culture. This article on the "tradition in action" website explains the subject very well.

ShepherdofSheep · « **Reply #1 on:** June 19, 2013, 12:09:12 PM »

I think it depends considerably on a man's state of life. For example, a farmer is not going to wear a suit and tie and polished dress shoes out to work, and he's not going to change into them when he gets back into the house (I'd say when he arrives home from work, but a farmer's work is seemingly never finished- they don't think twice about plowing or harvesting late into the night, or running out and checking on the cows or ewes in the wee hours of the morning). He's probably going to be dressed in jeans, and some sort of shirt that is practical when performing dirty tasks in the hot sun. He' probably wearing boots, maybe even steel-toed.

It's possible to dress with dignity even like that. Maybe I've grown up with it, but I think it gives a very masculine, respectable look. Suits or dressier clothing can do that too, but in a different way. The man in the article is dressed somewhat slovenly. If he was wearing jeans with a belt, some decent work boots or shoes, and a button-up shirt, even if it had rolled-up long sleeves, would look far more presentable. Even a T-shirt can look all right under certain circuмstances. He's also slouching. Posture and behavior has as much to do with appearance as clothing.

Maybe my viewpoint is unusual, but when I see a man in dirty jeans, haggard looking, maybe some grease or blood on his arms, I see somebody who probably put in an honest day's labor by the sweat of his brow, and I feel a sense of respect. He shouldn't be at Mass looking like that, but for day-to-day living, if he's in that type of field, it's quite all right. You can always clean up afterwards.

I myself don't give much thought to clothing other than what is modest and appropriate to my gender (female). I wear denim all the time because it makes sense for working with livestock and in the lab. I don't particularly care for frilly attire and don't personally like hats for myself. If others do, then by all means, go for it.

Like I have said in previous threads, one can dress "down" a bit in day-to-day life without being slovenly. It's absolutely possible.

PereJoseph · « **Reply #2 on:** June 19, 2013, 01:29:05 PM »

Quote from: Coastal GA Trad

I was reading another topic on this forum that was discussing women clothing options and I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread about what a Catholic gentleman should wear in his day to day life.

Who qualifies as a gentleman ? What does it mean ?

Matthew · « **Reply #3 on:** June 19, 2013, 01:35:58 PM »

Good question. Isn't a gentleman someone who DOESN'T have to get his hands dirty for a living?

As in, the "gentry". More accurately, the "landed gentry" (which implies wealth)?

I can understand a person dressing to show his state of life.

PereJoseph · « **Reply #4 on:** June 19, 2013, 02:00:32 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

Good question. Isn't a gentleman someone who DOESN'T have to get his hands dirty for a living?

Yes, and nowadays, if one can go off of the dress and speech of some of our young converts, the idea of being a gentleman is no longer attached to the idea of being well-born and a member of the cultured warrior aristocracy, fathers and guardians of the mos maiorum or dike geronton. Instead, it seems to be more akin to scenes from P. G. Wodehouse novels. It involves lots of pipe-smoking and a fascination for clothing and other accoutrements of urban dandies from the last two centuries. (I should clarify that I am not opposed to linen suits, wool hats, or tobacco, by the way, I just don't think they are all that important in the grand scheme of things.)

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As in, the "gentry". More accurately, the "landed gentry" (which implies wealth)?

Well, that's the thing. It does seem to imply wealth, but the thing called a "gentleman" seems to be something ambiguous and different from simply a member of the landed gentry, who had corresponding duties to and a stake in society. It doesn't seem to me that the ideal of the "gentleman" is something very clear.

Are we talking about Victorian ideas of "chivalry," something that long before was democratised and became the property of the middle class ? Or what ? Should farmers and craftsmen be proud of being "gentlemen" Let's say that the overwhelming majority of orthodox Catholic men were widely reocgnised as having the quality of being gentlemanly. What would it look like ? And, even then, so what ? Is there a next step ?

I am not being contentious or hostile. I am simply interested in clarity of thought pursuant to effective action for a sound purpose. It seems that none of these supposedly lofty cultural concepts are examined very seriously before being presented to most of us laymen as something we should care about rather intensely. So, it seems like we should go back one step in the thought process. After all, amateurs discuss tactics while professionals discuss logistics.

(For all of you avowed gentlemen who did not like my post, be assured that I am quite devoted to chivalry -- or, to be more precise, what Saint Louis would have called prudhomie, the combination of potestas with sapientas -- as I understand it. Please do not think that I am, at heart, an enemy to your goals, either, nor am I a stranger to your world.)

Coastal GA Trad · « **Reply #5 on:** June 19, 2013, 02:06:17 PM »

ShepherdofSheep said: [I think it depends considerably on a man's state of life. For example, a farmer is not going to wear a suit and tie and polished dress shoes out to work, and he's not going to change into them when he gets back into the house (I'd say when he arrives home from work, but a farmer's work is seemingly never finished- they don't think twice about plowing or harvesting late into the night, or running out and checking on the cows or ewes in the wee hours of the morning). He's probably going to be dressed in jeans, and some sort of shirt that is practical when performing dirty tasks in the hot sun. He' probably wearing boots, maybe even steel-toed. ]

Very True. I suppose that it depends upon what a person is doing at that moment. Wearing Jeans and a Work Shirt to work (if your work is dirty and strenuous) is not bad at all. That is what that type of clothing is made for. However, and please correct me if I am wrong because I do not know about Computer Engineering, but I can't imagine that it requires an excessive amount of manual labor. A man like the one in the article does not have an excuse to look the way he does simply because ( and again correct me if I am wrong) his job is neither strenuous or dirty. That picture in the article is a perfect representation of the horrible dress down culture which prevails in our society these days. Of Course, if your in the country at a very casual everyday event, it may not be absolutely necessary for a Gentleman to wear a tie. This is also the case if you are where it is excessively hot ( I mean in the 90's or above). However; if you are out on the town, then you should definitely try to look your best. I do think it comes down to people, when being in a public social situation , to dress to the best of their abilities, which does imply the principle of dressing for your "state of life"

Coastal GA Trad · « **Reply #6 on:** June 19, 2013, 02:52:12 PM »

The way I see it is that being a Gentleman ( and or Lady, if that is the case) is an essential ingredient in the restoration of Society. Being a Gentleman in the formal sense is to be a member of the Upper Middle and Upper Classes. However; anyone can be a gentleman in the way he behaves and acts in his daily life. In my journey to Traditional Catholicism, I have discovered that all of these little cօռspιʀαcιҽs against the Social Order ( the attack on clothing, Government, the Faith, etc. ) are all intricately connected. All these different cօռspιʀαcιҽs have contributed to the dethronement of Christ the King and the establishment of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr.

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Should farmers and craftsmen be proud of being "gentlemen"

Ideally Yes, in their own way. Of Course they are not going to accomplish it in the same way a member of the Gentry or a Doctor might be able to accomplish it, but they can still take pride in themselves and what they do. Having confidence and pride in yourself is an essential part of being a gentleman.

Cantarella · « **Reply #7 on:** June 19, 2013, 11:45:29 PM »

Quote from: Coastal GA Trad

The way I see it is that being a Gentleman ( and or Lady, if that is the case) is an essential ingredient in the restoration of Society. Being a Gentleman in the formal sense is to be a member of the Upper Middle and Upper Classes. However; anyone can be a gentleman in the way he behaves and acts in his daily life. In my journey to Traditional Catholicism, I have discovered that all of these little cօռspιʀαcιҽs against the Social Order ( the attack on clothing, Government, the Faith, etc. ) are all intricately connected. All these different cօռspιʀαcιҽs have contributed to the dethronement of Christ the King and the establishment of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr.

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I totally agree with you. How we look outside reflects our interior spirit. Our appearance and demeanor reveals our inner qualities. Also, clothing has a spiritual as well as material end. A true Catholic should be the best dressed in all. In picking a proper attire, the Catholic Church always taught us that the way of dressing should meet three conditions: the needs of hygiene, modesty and decorum.

Outward movements are signs of the inward disposition, according to Eccl. 19:27 ‘The attire of the body, and the laughter of the teeth, and the gait of the man show what he is,’ and St. Ambrose says (De Offic. I, 18) that ‘the habits of mind are seen in the gestures of the body,’ and that ‘the body’s movement is an index of the soul’” (Summa Theologiae, II, II, question 168, article 1, reply to objection 1). Therefore analyzing the gestures and postures of the body, as well as one's way of dressing we can know the interior of the person.

Incredulous · « **Reply #8 on:** June 20, 2013, 01:42:20 AM »

Here's pictures of some Southern ones, properly dressed:

Writer Tom Wolfe (Richmond, VA)

Retired General Robert E. Lee (Stratford Hall, VA)

New Orleans 1941

Ambrose · « **Reply #9 on:** June 20, 2013, 02:03:26 AM »

For myself, I hate the business suit, but wear it as it is the norm of the times. I would much rather dress in medieval attire, but I think I would be a spectacle if I showed up to mass dressed like a Catholic of the 13th century.

Stephen Francis · « **Reply #10 on:** June 20, 2013, 08:05:33 AM »

It's entirely possible to dress like a gentleman without resorting to the "business suit". Frock coats, here in the US usually associated these days with either ultra-formal events or with Old West reenactors, are a very elegant and manly style of gentlemanly dress.

Boots as opposed to shoes are also a mark of a man's man, because for centuries men who were horsemen or soldiers wore boots every day brcause they were always prepared for work, battle or other action. Shoes for most of modern history were little more than leather slippers.

A tie, cravat, neckerchief or scarf/bandana is appropriate, as it can serve as a towel for perspiration which item can be offered to a lady but also simply serves to show both modesty in covering the skin and diligence in attending to one's appearance. Remember that Our Lord said to bathe and groom ourselves so as not to appear like hypocrites who put forth a disheveled look as a sign of fasting or penance.

It seems these days that even CEOs of major companies will appear slovenly or at least overly casual; it's supposed to make it appear that their WORK is more important than their grooming.

Baloney. Our leaders should be head and shoulders above the rank and file citizens of their lands and should present themselves accordingly. The laymen who lead their families and communities in prayer and service to Our Lord should be no different.

Coastal GA Trad · « **Reply #11 on:** June 20, 2013, 09:59:59 AM »

Quote

It's entirely possible to dress like a gentleman without resorting to the "business suit". Frock coats, here in the US usually associated these days with either ultra-formal events or with Old West reenactors, are a very elegant and manly style of gentlemanly dress.

Boots as opposed to shoes are also a mark of a man's man, because for centuries men who were horsemen or soldiers wore boots every day brcause they were always prepared for work, battle or other action. Shoes for most of modern history were little more than leather slippers.

A tie, cravat, neckerchief or scarf/bandana is appropriate, as it can serve as a towel for perspiration which item can be offered to a lady but also simply serves to show both modesty in covering the skin and diligence in attending to one's appearance. Remember that Our Lord said to bathe and groom ourselves so as not to appear like hypocrites who put forth a disheveled look as a sign of fasting or penance.

It seems these days that even CEOs of major companies will appear slovenly or at least overly casual; it's supposed to make it appear that their WORK is more important than their grooming.

Baloney. Our leaders should be head and shoulders above the rank and file citizens of their lands and should present themselves accordingly. The laymen who lead their families and communities in prayer and service to Our Lord should be no different.

Hear, hear! :smile:

Zeitun · « **Reply #12 on:** June 20, 2013, 10:08:52 AM »

Quote from: Stephen Francis

It's entirely possible to dress like a gentleman without resorting to the "business suit". Frock coats, here in the US usually associated these days with either ultra-formal events or with Old West reenactors, are a very elegant and manly style of gentlemanly dress.

Boots as opposed to shoes are also a mark of a man's man, because for centuries men who were horsemen or soldiers wore boots every day brcause they were always prepared for work, battle or other action. Shoes for most of modern history were little more than leather slippers.

A tie, cravat, neckerchief or scarf/bandana is appropriate, as it can serve as a towel for perspiration which item can be offered to a lady but also simply serves to show both modesty in covering the skin and diligence in attending to one's appearance. Remember that Our Lord said to bathe and groom ourselves so as not to appear like hypocrites who put forth a disheveled look as a sign of fasting or penance.

It seems these days that even CEOs of major companies will appear slovenly or at least overly casual; it's supposed to make it appear that their WORK is more important than their grooming.

Baloney. Our leaders should be head and shoulders above the rank and file citizens of their lands and should present themselves accordingly. The laymen who lead their families and communities in prayer and service to Our Lord should be no different.

Here's a recent example of the look I think you describe.

Zeitun · « **Reply #13 on:** June 20, 2013, 10:12:53 AM »

BTW, this is the look I like for my hubby:

Incredulous · « **Reply #14 on:** June 20, 2013, 01:33:04 PM »

Quote from: Ambrose

For myself, I hate the business suit, but wear it as it is the norm of the times. I would much rather dress in medieval attire, but I think I would be a spectacle if I showed up to mass dressed like a Catholic of the 13th century.

An Italian suit fitted by a good tailor beats most other business suits in terms of looks and comfort.