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Offline LaramieHirsch

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"Public Schools Are Fine"
« on: January 28, 2015, 02:17:36 AM »
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  • I know this is the second post I've made requesting Greg's response in the last month.  (And, if I haven't before, I thank you Greg for responding to my last questions about that Aaron Clarey fellow.)  But this latest story, I figure, needs some follow up.  

    In the past, on these boards, Greg has argued that public schools in Britain are fine.  I just read the following article, and I want to know if he still thinks this way.  Has your opinion changed?

     - - - -

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2924236/Girls-11-quizzed-lesbians-Whitehall-zealots-waging-war-Christian-schools-Special-report-Tom-Rawstorne.html

    Girls of 11 quizzed about lesbians and how Whitehall zealots are waging war on Christian schools: A Special report by Tom Rawstorne


    -Pupils at Durham Free School were quizzed on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and religion
    -Ofsted inspectors asked 11-year-olds if they had 'gαy or lesbian friends'
    -The Government-funded school is now to be closed by Easter
    -It comes after the introduction of new Ofsted rules based on Equality Act
    -Inspectors can downgrade status based on teacher's handling of law
    -Here, TOM RAWSTORNE investigates its highly controversial practice  

    As her 11-year-old daughter Grace arrived home, Deborah Finch naturally asked her how the day had gone.

    Her response could hardly have been more surprising.

    She explained that Ofsted had launched a snap inspection of her school in Durham, quizzing pupils about their experiences.

    ‘Grace told me what she had been asked and I could not believe it,’ says Mrs Finch, 36, herself a teacher at another school. She was asked if she knew what it was to be gαy and whether she had any gαy friends.

    ‘She was asked if she knew any lesbians and whether any family members had gαy friends. At one point she was even asked whether she had ever felt she was in the wrong body, which completely baffled her as she hadn’t any idea what the woman was talking about.

    She felt very embarrassed and uncomfortable — she said she felt under pressure as though she was being forced to sit some kind of test and worried she wasn’t giving the right answers.’

    As it turned out, those worries were entirely justified.

    Earlier this week, the Department for Education announced it was withdrawing funding from Grace’s school, Durham Free School, and that come Easter, it would close.

    The reason? The results of that inspection by Ofsted last November.

    ‘One day spent in a failing school is one day too many,’ was the reaction of Education Secretary Nicky Morgan, adding: ‘I am deeply concerned when I hear of pupils being let down.’ But while the pupils, parents and staff do feel ‘let down’, it is not by the school — but by Mrs Morgan and by Ofsted.

    Parents and leaders at the school have claimed it was targeted because of its Christian ethos. They allege pupils were effectively seen as bigots by inspectors desperate to promote a politically correct diversity agenda and find evidence of religious extremism.

    And in the same week, very similar grievances were being aired by the head teacher at Grindon Hall Christian School, just ten miles away in Sunderland. On Tuesday, he issued a statement complaining about an Ofsted inspection which saw his school downgraded from

    Again, the accusation is that inspectors went in with an agenda, quizzing pupils about racism, homophobia and extremism. It is alleged they were even asked if they knew what lesbians ‘did’.

    Other Christian, Catholic and Jєωιѕн schools claim also to have been marked
    down in similar circuмstances — one for failing to invite Muslim imams to take assemblies, another for being ‘too white’.

    +6

    There is now growing concern that these schools are suffering because of a new requirement to promote qualities such as tolerance, fairness, respect for other faiths and the rule of law and democracy — which were egregiously described as ‘British values’.

    A worthy aim, but one that some fear has gone badly off the rails.

    ‘You get this sense that some inspectors have been longing for this sort of power,’ says Colin Hart, director of the Christian Institute. ‘They’ve been told for years to focus on exam results, attainment, behaviour, uniform and those sorts of things. Now they’ve got these political correctness powers and some have just leapt upon it.

    ‘They have a real sense of indignation that schools could ever believe in traditional marriage or just have Christian assemblies.’

    The new rules designed to combat extremism were introduced at the end of last year after the so-called Trojan Horse plot was discovered, an attempt to impose hardline Muslim values in some state schools in Birmingham.

    Schools are now required to ‘actively promote’ values such as tolerance of other faiths and lifestyles, democracy and the rule of law. For the first time, the rules give Ofsted inspectors the power to downgrade schools where teachers are breaching the Equality Act, which encourages respect for lesbian, gαy, bisɛҳuąƖ and transgender people, as well as those from other races and religions.
    While that may sound reasonable in theory, its execution has been highly controversial, something highlighted by the furore at Durham Free School.

    Set up by a parents and teachers, when it opened in 2013 it was hailed by the then-Education Minister Michael Gove as a ‘challenger school’ which would raise standards in the area.

    As a free school, it was funded directly by government and promised an education shaped by Christian values.

    Admittedly, things have not gone smoothly since. The school has been criticised for being expensive to run and for the way in which its finances have been administered. And the founding headmaster, Peter Cantley, recently left, his contract terminated by the governors on performance grounds — a decision he is challenging through an employment tribunal.

    And at the end of last year ‘serious allegations’ about the running of the school were made to the DfE. As a result, an Ofsted inspection was ordered at the end of November.

    According to the governors, it quickly became clear what the inspectors were looking to find.

    Ariella Wilkinson, 10, came home in tears after being questioned by Ofsted inspectors at Grindon Hall Christian School

    +6
    Ariella Wilkinson, 10, came home in tears after being questioned by Ofsted inspectors at Grindon Hall Christian School

    ‘The clear impression when the inspectors arrived was that they were expecting to find evidence of religious extremism, for example, asking what the school was doing to educate students about female genital mutilation which, whilst important in some contexts, was not a priority for 11 and 12-year-olds in the context of the characteristics of the communities served by the school,’ they told the Mail in a statement.

    The questioning, they say, was aggressive and intimidatory and left pupils embarrassed. It is claimed they included: ‘Do you know anybody in the school who is gαy?’, ‘Have you ever met anybody who is gαy/bisɛҳuąƖ’ and ‘How have you learned how to make a baby?’
    They can't stand schools believing in marriage

    It is also understood one pupil, when asked about Muslims, made a reference to terrorism. As a result, when the report was published this week, it concluded students were not being prepared for life in ‘modern Britain’.

    It continued: ‘Some students hold discriminatory views of other people who have different faiths, values or beliefs from themselves.’

    Taken with other criticisms of the school, Ofsted declared it ‘inadequate’ and placed it in special measures. Mrs Morgan announced the situation was so bad she would shut the school.

    But outraged parents and governors, feel the inspectors focused disproportionately on the ‘British values’ issue. They say the 11-year-old boy who responded inappropriately about Muslims should not have been seen as reflective of the whole school.

    Petrina Douglas, whose son Luke, 11, has attended the school since it opened, denied it fostered discriminatory attitudes. Mrs Douglas, who also sits on the board of governors, says: ‘It feels like the school has been made a scapegoat. Durham is primarily white British, so knowledge of other cultures is not as prevalent. But I don’t think the children are bigoted. They just might not be as aware of other cultures and at the school we are trying to address that.’

    Open: Grindon Hall, which teaches pupils aged four to 18, has a Christian ethos but no faith-based selection criteria, resulting in an intake that includes pupils from various religions

    +6

    Open: Grindon Hall, which teaches pupils aged four to 18, has a Christian ethos but no faith-based selection criteria, resulting in an intake that includes pupils from various religions

    Yesterday, an Ofsted spokesman said: ‘Ofsted is aware that allegations have been made about the conduct of Her Majesty’s Inspectors who inspected Durham Free School, and a suggestion that findings on whether pupils were being prepared for life in modern Britain were based on comments made to inspectors by a single pupil.

    ‘The school did not raise any of these issues with Ofsted at any point either during the inspection visit or during the various moderation and pre-publication stages, despite having had every opportunity to do so.

    ‘Ofsted would like to make clear that in reaching their conclusions about the effectiveness of the school’s work in preparing students for life in modern Britain, inspectors considered a wide range of evidence. Discussions with students formed just a part of the evidence that was gathered.

    The questions were aggressive and intimidatory

    ‘Inspectors found that senior staff at Durham Free School had allowed a culture to develop where it was acceptable for racist words and sɛҳuąƖly derogative and homophobic terms to be used. Leaders were failing to properly tackle or challenge this type of language and behaviour.’

    The Durham school is now set to shut in weeks. But in Sunderland, the battle to restore the reputation of Grindon Hall Christian School looks set to run and run.
    Following a separate Ofsted inspection in November, it has also just been placed into special measures. A free school with pupils aged four to 18, it was downgraded by the report from ‘requires improvement’ to ‘inadequate’.

    ‘A significant proportion of pupils are unaware, for example, of the diversity that exists within modern British society,’ was one of its conclusions.

    ‘Pupils are not taught to develop appropriate levels of respect or tolerance for those from other faiths, cultures or communities. Pupils . . . found it difficult to name a religion other than Christianity or identify any festivals that other faiths or cultures may celebrate.’

    But Chris Gray, the school’s head, has accused Ofsted of ‘playing politics’ with the new regulations on British values. He claims that pupils were subjected to ‘hostile’ and ‘inappropriate’ questioning.

    Ten-year-old Grindon Hall pupil Ariella Wilkinson was left in tears. Her mother Lena, 46, says: ‘The questioning was completely inappropriate. They asked her what lesbians were, and whether she felt trapped in someone else’s body. She said she didn’t want to talk about it, because she was embarrassed.’

    A pathology registrar, from Sunderland, she adds: ‘She’s been crying a lot over it. She thinks the bad Ofsted report is her fault.

    ‘The silly thing is, Ariella knows about same-sex relationships because one of our best family friends is gαy. There’s no way she’s homophobic —she just didn’t realise they would be asking that kind of thing. They put her on the spot.’
    Sixth-formers at the school recorded what they were asked. One wrote: ‘Regarding the Oftsed inspector who questioned us, I felt she was directing the conversation towards racism, homophobia and extremist views. When we answered that these were obviously not tolerated in our school, she rephrased the questions and went on to ask whether we felt at a disadvantage because of only being taught about Christianity.’

    Another said: ‘During the interview, the inspector always seemed to be leading us towards answers that portrayed the school as discriminatory . . . it always felt like she was pushing for a “racist” answer.’

    Mr Gray also claims inspectors expected pupils to celebrate religious festivals from other faiths. He says: ‘This would breach our Christian foundation, which stipulates that we are a Christian school. It would certainly offend against the consciences of many of our staff, pupils and parents. No one should be told by a government official to celebrate any religion. Learn about it, yes. Celebrate its festivals, no.’

    He adds that anyone comparing this report with one published in May last year would think two different schools had been inspected, saying: ‘There have been no major changes of staffing, pupils or policy to account for the difference,’ he says. ‘The difference was the introduction of the widely discredited “British values” rules and the aggressive attitude of the inspection team.’
    Yesterday, in relation to Grindon Hall, Ofsted said: ‘These allegations, which were not brought to the attention of Her Majesty’s Inspectors during the inspection, are now subject to Ofsted’s formal complaints procedures and will be thoroughly investigated. However, it is important to assure the public, parents, pupils and other schools that we have undertaken a detailed examination of the evidence base, interviewed each of the three inspectors who carried out the inspection, and have held a separate meeting between the principal and Ofsted’s North East Regional Director in respect of these allegations.

    ‘To date, we have found no evidence to indicate that inspectors failed to act with care and sensitivity and to ask age- appropriate questions when they spoke to pupils.’

    The inspector kept pushing for a "racist" answer
    But concerns about the way the rules on British values have been imposed are not confined to these two schools. A primary school in Market Rasen, Lincolnshire, was marked down because pupils lacked ‘first-hand experience of the diverse make-up of modern British society’ — even though 97 per cent of the population of the town is white.

    The report said: ‘The large majority of pupils are white British . . . and currently no pupils speak English as an additional language. The school needs to extend pupils’ understanding of the cultural diversity of modern British society . . .’
    Trinity Christian School in Reading, meanwhile, says it was warned after an inspection in October it could face closure for failing to invite imams and other religious leaders to take assemblies.

    That same month it also emerged that a high-profile Jєωιѕн school had fallen foul of the new rules. The Beis Yaakov secondary school for girls in Salford was downgraded from good to inadequate and placed in special measures. The management made a formal complaint to Ofsted over the conduct of the inspection, with pupils reported to have felt bullied by inspectors’ questions about ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and whether pupils had friends from other faiths.

    Similarly concerned is Hugh O’Neill, head of St Benedict’s Catholic secondary school in Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, which had a snap inspection at the end of last year. The initial report, subsequently amended following a re-inspection, claimed that younger pupils at the school showed a lack of awareness about ‘the dangers of extremism and radicalisation’.

    Mr O’Neill says: ‘You wouldn’t expect to find evidence of radicalisation actually being promoted in a Catholic school in Suffolk.’

    It’s a fair point, dismissed by those responsible for the inspections.
    A Department for Education spokesperson last night told the Mail that it was ‘nonsense’ to suggest that schools would ever be penalised for having a faith ethos.

    He said: ‘Schools are neither discriminated against nor given special treatment based on any religious belief. All schools are treated equally . . . any suggestion otherwise is ludicrous. We want every school to promote the basic British values of democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty, and mutual respect and tolerance for those of different faiths and beliefs so that all children are prepared for life in modern Britain.’

    But can the responses by the DfE and Ofsted explain away children of 11 being asked if they are living in the wrong body? Or schools in overwhelmingly white areas being condemned for being ‘too white’?

    It seems such a depressingly right-on approach is what passes for British values in our oh-so modern education system.

    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle


    Offline ggreg

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    "Public Schools Are Fine"
    « Reply #1 on: January 28, 2015, 04:37:31 AM »
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  • When you put words in quotes, is it not customary for the person to have actually said that?

    I doubt I've ever said "public Schools are fine" in an unqualified way.

    What I have certainly said is that some public schools in Britain, probably most, are a reasonable and often a better option than SSPX schools which involve you changing your career and moving halfway across the country, or homeschooling, which often means exchanging one set of problems for another.  There are no ideal choices.

    Public schools are also better where I live than the Catholic Schools, which are very modernist and have lower academic achievement standards.  So they lose their faith and fail to earn a decent living.

    My children all go to state schools and none of them are being taught anything outrageous in biology classes.  My daughter is 12 and has not been told about condoms or STDs.  When they do what is required by law, and what is required is pretty minimal and tame, the school will write to me and give us the option to opt of that class.

    If my daughters school is taken over by lesbians or radical left wingers then I will change schools.  But it won't be.



    Offline Stubborn

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    "Public Schools Are Fine"
    « Reply #2 on: January 28, 2015, 05:05:13 AM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    When you put words in quotes, is it not customary for the person to have actually said that?

    I doubt I've ever said "public Schools are fine" in an unqualified way.

    What I have certainly said is that some public schools in Britain, probably most, are a reasonable and often a better option than SSPX schools which involve you changing your career and moving halfway across the country, or homeschooling, which often means exchanging one set of problems for another.  There are no ideal choices.

    Public schools are also better where I live than the Catholic Schools, which are very modernist and have lower academic achievement standards.  So they lose their faith and fail to earn a decent living.

    My children all go to state schools and none of them are being taught anything outrageous in biology classes.  My daughter is 12 and has not been told about condoms or STDs.  When they do what is required by law, and what is required is pretty minimal and tame, the school will write to me and give us the option to opt of that class.

    If my daughters school is taken over by lesbians or radical left wingers then I will change schools.  But it won't be.



    12 years old? I hope I am wrong, honestly I do, but the most obvious problems for your family should begin to surface before very long now. I hope not, I sincerely hope not for your sake and the sake of your whole family, but no one, I mean no one attends a public school and emerges untouched, or with stronger faith or respect for authority or etc. ad nausem.

    Students are taught by schools and their peers at school to be mouthy and overly rebellious and disrespectful teens, runaways, drugs, alcohol, sex, curfews and etc. etc. are all something they have a right to. It is in the curriculum and has been since perhaps just prior to the V2 revolution and has evolved over the years into something worse.

    If you have a public school that doesn't crank out more godless and mindless, rebellious pawns, then you found a public school which has not existed in probably 50 years anywhere in the world. Count your blessings.

     
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline ggreg

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    "Public Schools Are Fine"
    « Reply #3 on: January 28, 2015, 05:29:06 AM »
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  • I haven't seen rebellion on her timetable.  History, Geography, Maths, English, PE etc.

    She's on the gifted and talented register for PE, Religious Education, Maths, Computer Technology and English.

    Recently she came back with some Geography homework on Mexican immigration where she had to argue for and against.  As an experiment, I strongly convinced her of a very right wing position something like the minutemen would hold and so she gave the conclusion that these were mostly economic migrants cheating the system.  It would have made the Daily Mail blush.

    She got an A* because she argued her point well and researched it asking questions on-line with real Americans who had to suffer living near the border.

    That does not suggest her teachers have a liberal agenda to me.  Which is why I tested them, to see what they would do.

    Stop arguing emotionally like a woman and show me hard facts and figures.  Prove to me that homeschooled children have a much higher likelihood of becoming Traditional Priests or religious or landing themselves a job or growing a business where they maintain a degree of power, independent thought, freetime and suitable income to support a non working wife and more than half a dozen children.  I don't want my children having "josephite Marriages" because they are poor.  I don't want them on welfare either.

    For me, those are the only two desirable outcomes for my children.  So let's stop with the emotional anecdotes and refer to real facts and figures.  Of the several hundred Catholic priests under 50 who say the old mass, of whatever stripe, how many of them were homeschooled, went to newchurch catholic schools or non-catholic schools?

    Of the families in your parish with 6+ children, where they father earns the money and the mother stays at home, how many of the parents were homeschooled or schooled by the SSPX.

    We've had a whole generation grow up, so the data must surely indicate if there is a correlation.

    I don't think that there is.

    Offline ggreg

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    "Public Schools Are Fine"
    « Reply #4 on: January 28, 2015, 05:35:02 AM »
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  • Here is a letter I just received from elementary school.  This is aimed at 10 and 11 year olds.

    Dewar Parent,

    Safer Internet Day offers the opportunity to highlight positive uses of technology and to explore the role we all play in helping to create a better and safer online community. It calls upon young people, parents, carers, teachers, social workers, law enforcement, companies, policymakers, and all communities, to join together in helping to create a better internet.

    This year, Tuesday 10 February is the designated Safer Internet Day and hence each class will be participating in lessons and activities to raise their awareness of this important aspect of their lives. (However, due to timetable restrictions each class may be undertaking these activities at different times during the week rather than on Tuesday 10 February itself).

    Children in Years 5 and 6 will be participating in workshops run by our local PCSOon Wednesday 11 February; further in-class activities will follow. As a culmination of the work done by the children through this week, Year 5 and Year 6 children will be presenting a short revue at the end of the week to which their parents are invited. The revue will take place at 9.00am on Friday 13 February. It is anticipated it will last about 30 minutes. Please indicate on the attached form if you would like to attend and return the slip to school.

    - -

    Surely if the intent of the school was to corrupt them they would not be making and effort to involve themselves in things such as this.

    Why wouldn't the school just let them use the Internet as they like and tell them, your liberty is supreme, go where thou wilt and experience everything?


    Offline Stubborn

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    "Public Schools Are Fine"
    « Reply #5 on: January 28, 2015, 07:16:15 AM »
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  • I didn't know that you had no idea what's been happening in the schools for the past 50 years.

    You don't need to answer but just out of curiosity, why do you suppose there ever even was such a thing as "Catholic Schools"? And why do you think trad parents home school if they are able, when all they really need to do is send their children to public school?

    You want proof? All you need to do is look at all the "express yourselfers"  that come out of public schools  - I'd think that should be all the proof you would need.


     
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Croix de Fer

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    "Public Schools Are Fine"
    « Reply #6 on: January 28, 2015, 07:33:45 AM »
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  • Public schools are anti-Christ drone manufacturing plants.
    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline ggreg

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    "Public Schools Are Fine"
    « Reply #7 on: January 28, 2015, 07:53:56 AM »
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  • Not really.  Since 99.9% of them didn't have any faith to begin with.  So it is no kind of proof at all.

    If some people who went to public schools become white Muslim converts it does not mean that public schools are encouraging that.  It's simply down to the fact that most people go to state schools, so clearly most white Muslim converts will have gone to state schools.

    You'd need to demonstrate that on a statistically meaningful group that home schooling produces better results (more desirable outcomes more often).  So if you demonstrated, for example, that priests in good standing for longer than 10 years aged 45 or under had a much higher population of home-schooled people than the general Trad proportion, or, the same for stable and productive marriages, then that would constitute proof.

    Quote
    You don't need to answer but just out of curiosity, why do you suppose there ever even was such a thing as "Catholic Schools"? And why do you think trad parents home school if they are able, when all they really need to do is send their children to public school?


    I think SOME Trad parents home school because they have no other viable choice.  They weigh-up the risks and outcomes and decide it is the best thing for their situation and circuмstances.

    I think SOME Trad parents home school because they are pressured into it, but they neither feel capable nor are they very successful at it.  But because of family or friends they tow the line.  They are scared of making a decision that suits them and enduring the criticism of those around them.

    If I lived in inner London, and was forced to remain living there, I would probably home school myself, because the place is a zoo.  If I lived in rural Scotland surrounded by culturally Catholic and Christian Scots I would probably send them to the local school.  Especially, if it had a good reputation academically.

    They had Catholic schools historically because most every other school was faith based and they got all sorts of tax breaks too for a long time.  Sending your children to a Protestant School where they would be taught protestantism and that the King of England was the defender of the faith and that Roman Catholicism was a papist cult was clearly destructive to their faith.  As a Catholic you would have faced a beating every day.

    It would be nuts to send your Catholic child to a Muslim school where they actively taught Islam.

    Obviously, in a world where most people are religious and practice their religion, faith schools are viable and desirable.  But in a world where 90% of even practising Catholics are using the pill and having 2-3 children they make no sense at all, because the "Catholics" teaching you are just teaching you a load of socialist and emotional slush.  Even in the unlikely event that they tell you what the church teaches on birth control, the very fact that your family of 5 is considered to be "breeding like rabbits", tells you all you need to know about "Catholicism" in practice.

    Back in the 1970s my family of 9 was the largest in the school by far.  There was one family of 7, the Ormistons and the next largest was 5.  The average was 2.7 children.  (we did a class survey in Maths).  90% were first and second generation Irish.

    Unless your Faith actually means something concrete that can be taught, then what is the point of having a school that suggests it is part of that faith?  You can no more teach modern Catholicism than you can nail a jelly to the wall or grab a piece of water in your hand.

    If people emerged from an engineering school and didn't know the basic principles of engineering, such as moments of force, torque, inertia, gearing etc then the school would be utterly pointless.

    Likewise it is stupid to attend a Catholic School today.


    Offline Stubborn

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    "Public Schools Are Fine"
    « Reply #8 on: January 28, 2015, 09:05:40 AM »
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  • Of course you can't send your child to "catholic" school today, but when the Church was strong and things were good, Catholic schools were there for a reason, not a choice.

    In public schools there is not only no God, but *they teach* that there is no God often explicitly, always inherently in the curriculum.

    The easiest proof is all the queers - to the point that anyone who so much as utter anything against queers risks everything they have - thank the public schools for most if not all of that.

    Promotion and acceptance of every sɛҳuąƖ perversion has been taught to the children through the schools starting in kindergarten for the last 50 years - if you don't agree then you will have to concoct your own ideas as to how queer marriage is promoted by idiots everywhere who all went to public school, and it's now law in almost every state, or soon will be after the Supreme Court decides.    

    Accepting, promoting and procuring abortion has been taught in the schools and has been the norm for at least the last 40 years in schools - that's the way they worked it. In the past, I talked to a few girls in their early 20s who were not even embarrassed about the multiple abortions they had before they ever even graduated - that whole subject makes me sick so I don't want to talk about it but merely used as an example of what goes on in todays schools.

    If you think these few examples are misguided or kooky or conspiratorial, then go ahead and ask some of the recent public school grads their feelings about queer marriage and they may not even know what you're talking about unless you say "same-sex marriage", but I think you'll be hard pressed to find any recent grad tell you it's the abomination that it is - more likely they'll tell you something along the lines of it being acceptable, same for abortion. Where do you think they all learned that?

    That is only a few obvious examples of what children are taught in public schools. Right is right and wrong is right - as long as you don't discriminate or offend anyone or any group. These people are the ones who made our laws and who will continue to make our laws today and tomorrow.

    As I said, if you think your school is different and you don't need to concern yourself with any other abominations that go on in all other schools then count your blessings because you've found probably the only school in the world that is safe - but I don't think so, the odds are against it.

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Petertherock

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    "Public Schools Are Fine"
    « Reply #9 on: January 28, 2015, 09:42:09 AM »
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  • Ahhh yes...Public schools are great! Ask this teacher who confiscated a students cell phone!

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/embed/4LDM_AWcb6c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/youtube]




    Offline Stubborn

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    "Public Schools Are Fine"
    « Reply #10 on: January 28, 2015, 10:00:08 AM »
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  • Quote from: Petertherock
    Ahhh yes...Public schools are great! Ask this teacher who confiscated a students cell phone!

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/embed/4LDM_AWcb6c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/youtube]





    If that teacher defended himself he'd probably end up in prison for child abuse or cruelty or some such charge, after all, that teacher probably infringed upon the rights of the student to have a cell phone.  :facepalm:  

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline ggreg

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    "Public Schools Are Fine"
    « Reply #11 on: January 28, 2015, 10:56:19 AM »
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  • Quote from: Stubborn
    In public schools there is not only no God, but *they teach* that there is no God often explicitly, always inherently in the curriculum.


    Then why would they invite an iman and a rabbi to speak to the students?

    Besides, I got taught all sorts of cobblers at school.  Doesn't mean I believed it.  I raise my children to question what they are told and think it through rationally.  They aren't in love with their teachers so why would they believe them carte blanche?

    Quote from: Stubborn

    The easiest proof is all the queers - to the point that anyone who so much as utter anything against queers risks everything they have - thank the public schools for most if not all of that.


    Again this is untrue.  It's perfectly possible to hold an opinion that being ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ is immoral in a British state school today.  I agree that some of your class will disagree with you, but I doubt the proportion would differ much in a Catholic school.  The difference is that in a state school they cannot play the charity card.  They cannot suggest that you are being evil by believing ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs are disordered.  So again who really cares what they think?

    These conversations don't really arise in the classroom at all until about 15 years old.

    Quote from: Stubborn
    Promotion and acceptance of every sɛҳuąƖ perversion has been taught to the children through the schools starting in kindergarten for the last 50 years.


    Not in Britain it hasn't.  How, for example, would they promote ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity to a state school full of Muslim children in say Rochdale?  They would have a riot on their hands if this was a set part of the national curriculum.  Those Muslims, even the moderate ones, would burn the school down.  The promotion does not take place in school but rather on the TV and in the media.

    Which I why I don't have a TV aerial.

    Offline Matthew

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    "Public Schools Are Fine"
    « Reply #12 on: January 28, 2015, 11:15:28 AM »
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  • Quote from: Stubborn

    Promotion and acceptance of every sɛҳuąƖ perversion has been taught to the children through the schools starting in kindergarten for the last 50 years - if you don't agree then you will have to concoct your own ideas as to how queer marriage is promoted by idiots everywhere who all went to public school, and it's now law in almost every state, or soon will be after the Supreme Court decides.    


    First of all, I agree that public schools are evil and it is usually mortally sinful to send your children to them.

    But you need to know what you're talking about.

    Where do you live? Because even in a Democratic state like Illinois, things were *not* that bad 30 years ago in the public schools.

    I went to elementary school in the 1980's, and things were not that far gone at that point. They never taught us that ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity was normal, acceptable, or anything like that.

    Maybe in California it was different.

    I disagree with your premise that "queer marriage is promoted by idiots everywhere who all went to public school..." because they went to public school. Maybe they were indoctrinated later? Perhaps by the media? Public school does teach kids to seek out and adopt whatever the majority opinion is, I'll give you that.

    The current lawmakers all drank milk or formula for the first year of their lives -- maybe THAT'S the real culprit! (yes, I'm being sarcastic). See my point though? Correlation isn't causation.

    The homo agenda has only picked up steam in the past 20 years or so. And keep in mind that 20 years ago was 1995.

    I remember back in the 90's the big political issue was "gαys in the military". If most people were sold on the goodness of gαys, it wouldn't have been an issue.
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    Offline ggreg

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    "Public Schools Are Fine"
    « Reply #13 on: January 28, 2015, 11:30:59 AM »
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  • "Correlation isn't causation."

    Wherever Stubborn went to school, he clearly missed this very basic rule of reasoning.

    Offline ggreg

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    "Public Schools Are Fine"
    « Reply #14 on: January 28, 2015, 11:38:37 AM »
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  • Quote from: Petertherock
    Ahhh yes...Public schools are great! Ask this teacher who confiscated a students cell phone!


    I'm sure that not all public schools are this unruly all over the US.  Videos that make it to the internet are not exactly evidence.

    Where did you school Peter?  Home, Catholic or State School?