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Author Topic: "Father, forgive them..."  (Read 2927 times)

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Offline gladius_veritatis

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"Father, forgive them..."
« on: May 02, 2012, 10:03:00 AM »
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  • When Jesus was being tortured beyond human comprehension and about to die at the hands of His own creatures, none of whom could continue to breathe or even exist without His express cooperation, He asked His Father to forgive His executioners:

    "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

    How could these men -- men who had seen His miracles, heard His words, felt His overpowering presence and watched the "whole world" go after Him -- how could they NOT know what they were doing?  Had not all of these things been foretold in the very books they safeguarded and knew backward and forwards?  These men were the doctors and guardians of the Temple; if they did not know what they were doing, did anyone else, could anyone else?

    Jesus IS Truth, so when He says they did not know what they were doing, there is absolutely no reason to doubt Him; in fact, we MUST believe.  My imperfect understanding is this:

    Those poor, wicked men were so spiritually ill, so blinded by their passions and so egomaniacal that they no longer saw anything correctly -- themselves, the world around them, how their actions affected themselves and others, God's endless and beneficent activity all around them, etc.  How guilty were they before, during or after the Crucifixion?  I don't know; I can't know; I don't need to know. God the Father knows, however, and He certainly heard the dying wish of His only-begotten Son.

    The men who crucified Jesus were created for the very same end as those who wept at the foot of the Cross: unending union with God Himself.  Every single one of us...absolutely without exception...is a product of the outpouring of God's infinite love.  We are caused by His love, we are sustained by His love, we are made to love and be loved by Him...forever.  This is as true for me as it is for you; it is true for your enemies and mine; it is true for the most wicked men who have ever lived, are presently alive or have yet to be born.

    We are all suffering from various kinds and degrees of spiritual illness.  I know from lengthy, often-painful personal experience that I have a slice of the very same egomania that led to the events on Calvary deeply rooted within my disordered heart.  Every single one of my fellows, however holy or sinful, has his own issues, too.  If those who crucified the God-man did not, according to His infinitely perfect understanding, know what they were doing, it is safe to presume that none of us do, either.  There is no doubt that our actions can and do hurt others; we see the results all around us.  Sometimes the hurt is truly and willfully inflicted and is enormously hurtful; sometimes the deed is innocent enough, but the effect produced in the mind and heart of another can do and often does untold damage of which we are largely unaware.  In a word: we are all spiritually ill to some degree and we are constantly affecting and being affected by those around us.  Holding on to resentments for injuries received from real or merely-apparent offenses only hurts the one who cannot let go of the resentment.

    I have absolutely no doubt that I have offered offense via this medium.  Some of it was certainly actual, some of it was merely apparent, some of it was probably a mixture of the two -- but ALL of it was/is real enough to the injured party/parties.  I suppose this is one of the reasons why we are to avoid even the appearance of sin or impropriety: some or perhaps all of us are, at times, so sensitive that we will mis/take what is only an apparent offense for the real and be scandalized or feel the pain of an actual injury.  For ALL of my offenses, whether real or apparent or a mixture of the two, I am profoundly sorry and beg the pardon of those whom I injured or feel/felt as if I injured them.  As for those who injured me or whom I believe/d did so, may God's blessings rain down upon you, now and throughout all eternity.

    We are only here because of the excess of God's love -- it is the cause of our creation, our redemption and, God's will be done, our eternal salvation.  It is only by surrendering absolutely and without reserve to the omnipresent, omnipotent activity of divine love that we will find real happiness, on earth and in heaven.  It is this immeasurable, unending happiness that I hope to obtain and wish for every single one of you.  I will pray to that end for each of you; please pray for me, too.

    Eamon
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline s2srea

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    "Father, forgive them..."
    « Reply #1 on: May 02, 2012, 10:34:53 AM »
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  • Eamon that is very humble of you. I will pray all goes well with your dealings in these matters, and that all of us will become better Catholics.


    Offline Malleus 01

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    "Father, forgive them..."
    « Reply #2 on: May 02, 2012, 11:38:33 AM »
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  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    When Jesus was being tortured beyond human comprehension and about to die at the hands of His own creatures, none of whom could continue to breathe or even exist without His express cooperation, He asked His Father to forgive His executioners:

    "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

    How could these men -- men who had seen His miracles, heard His words, felt His overpowering presence and watched the "whole world" go after Him -- how could they NOT know what they were doing?  Had not all of these things been foretold in the very books they safeguarded and knew backward and forwards?  These men were the doctors and guardians of the Temple; if they did not know what they were doing, did anyone else, could anyone else?

    Jesus IS Truth, so when He says they did not know what they were doing, there is absolutely no reason to doubt Him; in fact, we MUST believe.  My imperfect understanding is this:

    Those poor, wicked men were so spiritually ill, so blinded by their passions and so egomaniacal that they no longer saw anything correctly -- themselves, the world around them, how their actions affected themselves and others, God's endless and beneficent activity all around them, etc.  How guilty were they before, during or after the Crucifixion?  I don't know; I can't know; I don't need to know. God the Father knows, however, and He certainly heard the dying wish of His only-begotten Son.

    The men who crucified Jesus were created for the very same end as those who wept at the foot of the Cross: unending union with God Himself.  Every single one of us...absolutely without exception...is a product of the outpouring of God's infinite love.  We are caused by His love, we are sustained by His love, we are made to love and be loved by Him...forever.  This is as true for me as it is for you; it is true for your enemies and mine; it is true for the most wicked men who have ever lived, are presently alive or have yet to be born.

    We are all suffering from various kinds and degrees of spiritual illness.  I know from lengthy, often-painful personal experience that I have a slice of the very same egomania that led to the events on Calvary deeply rooted within my disordered heart.  Every single one of my fellows, however holy or sinful, has his own issues, too.  If those who crucified the God-man did not, according to His infinitely perfect understanding, know what they were doing, it is safe to presume that none of us do, either.  There is no doubt that our actions can and do hurt others; we see the results all around us.  Sometimes the hurt is truly and willfully inflicted and is enormously hurtful; sometimes the deed is innocent enough, but the effect produced in the mind and heart of another can do and often does untold damage of which we are largely unaware.  In a word: we are all spiritually ill to some degree and we are constantly affecting and being affected by those around us.  Holding on to resentments for injuries received from real or merely-apparent offenses only hurts the one who cannot let go of the resentment.

    I have absolutely no doubt that I have offered offense via this medium.  Some of it was certainly actual, some of it was merely apparent, some of it was probably a mixture of the two -- but ALL of it was/is real enough to the injured party/parties.  I suppose this is one of the reasons why we are to avoid even the appearance of sin or impropriety: some or perhaps all of us are, at times, so sensitive that we will mis/take what is only an apparent offense for the real and be scandalized or feel the pain of an actual injury.  For ALL of my offenses, whether real or apparent or a mixture of the two, I am profoundly sorry and beg the pardon of those whom I injured or feel/felt as if I injured them.  As for those who injured me or whom I believe/d did so, may God's blessings rain down upon you, now and throughout all eternity.

    We are only here because of the excess of God's love -- it is the cause of our creation, our redemption and, God's will be done, our eternal salvation.  It is only by surrendering absolutely and without reserve to the omnipresent, omnipotent activity of divine love that we will find real happiness, on earth and in heaven.  It is this immeasurable, unending happiness that I hope to obtain and wish for every single one of you.  I will pray to that end for each of you; please pray for me, too.

    Eamon


    That is the spirit - neither can any of us condemn you because if we dare then we too have fallen victim to our own ego and pride. Let us all approach the Majesty of GOD as did  the Publican who would not even look up - but instead asked only for mercy and not the pharisee who was too full of his own deciet to gain the Grace of GOD.

    GOD Bless and Keep you.......

    Pax

    Offline Thorn

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    "Father, forgive them..."
    « Reply #3 on: May 02, 2012, 11:57:59 AM »
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  • Gladius, I've always liked you & always read your posts as they were so interesting (& no misspellings either:-))!!!.  I'm sorry I stood by silently while you were being goaded so badly that you fell off your horse.  I'm ssooooo glad to see you back in the saddle again!  The world is in bad shape & desperately in need of a voice like yours.  Don't let us down!  God Bless & keep you!
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14

    Offline LordPhan

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    "Father, forgive them..."
    « Reply #4 on: May 02, 2012, 12:23:00 PM »
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  • I'm giving +1's all around to counteract the non-Catholic thumbsdown.

    Matthew can you not see how there are non-Catholics all over your board? How can anyone justify thumbing down these posts? They cannot be Catholic.


    Offline Raoul76

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    "Father, forgive them..."
    « Reply #5 on: May 02, 2012, 12:51:47 PM »
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  • I wonder who could be giving the thumbs down to this?

    Could it be a certain rageaholic, and could this rageaholic not like to see someone humble himself and be accepted back into the fold?  I can't say for sure.  But Matthew could find out, I believe, if he wanted to.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Thorn

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    "Father, forgive them..."
    « Reply #6 on: May 02, 2012, 01:01:03 PM »
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  • I'm wondering also about all the thumbs down.  I don't get it.  Is it because someone doesn't like someone else & will thumbs down whatever that person posts, no matter what?
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14

    Offline Matthew

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    "Father, forgive them..."
    « Reply #7 on: May 02, 2012, 01:49:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: LordPhan
    I'm giving +1's all around to counteract the non-Catholic thumbsdown.

    Matthew can you not see how there are non-Catholics all over your board? How can anyone justify thumbing down these posts? They cannot be Catholic.


    I looked up the thumbs-down, and it's a long standing (Catholic) member.
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    Offline Brian

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    "Father, forgive them..."
    « Reply #8 on: May 02, 2012, 02:14:57 PM »
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  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    When Jesus was being tortured beyond human comprehension and about to die at the hands of His own creatures, none of whom could continue to breathe or even exist without His express cooperation, He asked His Father to forgive His executioners:

    "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

    How could these men -- men who had seen His miracles, heard His words, felt His overpowering presence and watched the "whole world" go after Him -- how could they NOT know what they were doing?  Had not all of these things been foretold in the very books they safeguarded and knew backward and forwards?  These men were the doctors and guardians of the Temple; if they did not know what they were doing, did anyone else, could anyone else?



    Eamon


    Eamon,

    Our Lord asked the Almighty Father to forgive the Roman soldiers that were tasked with the shedding of the Blood of the Spotless Lamb.  They didn't know His identity.  To them, He was just another crazy Jєω.

    I will keep you in my prayers.

    Pax Christi,

    Brian

    Offline Sigismund

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    "Father, forgive them..."
    « Reply #9 on: May 02, 2012, 05:22:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: LordPhan
    I'm giving +1's all around to counteract the non-Catholic thumbsdown.

    Matthew can you not see how there are non-Catholics all over your board? How can anyone justify thumbing down these posts? They cannot be Catholic.


    As am I.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline s2srea

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    "Father, forgive them..."
    « Reply #10 on: May 02, 2012, 05:29:02 PM »
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  • Quote from: Sigismund
    Quote from: LordPhan
    I'm giving +1's all around to counteract the non-Catholic thumbsdown.

    Matthew can you not see how there are non-Catholics all over your board? How can anyone justify thumbing down these posts? They cannot be Catholic.


    As am I.


    One of the guests in the anonymous forum are trying to explain away his composure and reconciliation here. I think that's pretty gross. What right do we have to assume the sincerity, or lack of it, of someone's apology. They went on to say that he is, essentially, mentally incurable. Wouldn't that be even more reason to sympathize with someone? Screw them. They don't even have the balls to post their name on here.



    Offline s2srea

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    "Father, forgive them..."
    « Reply #11 on: May 02, 2012, 05:33:04 PM »
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  • Sorry my own words here are not quite Catholic, and makes me no better than them. I need to stay away from that anonymous forum's garbage.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    "Father, forgive them..."
    « Reply #12 on: May 02, 2012, 06:05:57 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Quote from: LordPhan
    I'm giving +1's all around to counteract the non-Catholic thumbsdown.

    Matthew can you not see how there are non-Catholics all over your board? How can anyone justify thumbing down these posts? They cannot be Catholic.


    I looked up the thumbs-down, and it's a long standing (Catholic) member.


    It wasn't me.  Raoul likes to attack the reputations of others with rash speculations. (when he doesn't simply lie)

    He has a very serious problem.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    "Father, forgive them..."
    « Reply #13 on: May 02, 2012, 06:07:50 PM »
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    I have absolutely no doubt that I have offered offense via this medium.  Some of it was certainly actual, some of it was merely apparent, some of it was probably a mixture of the two


    I didn't thumb you down, with all due respect Eamon, this kind of wording makes your apologies very unconvincing.

    Offline alaric

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    « Reply #14 on: May 02, 2012, 07:00:54 PM »
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  • This is probably totally off topic......but.

    These very words in the bible have always been somewhat problematic to me. The very thought of God's son begging his father to forgive his tormentors isn't too difficult to comprehend, as hard as that is.

    But the whole concept of the Trinity, the very foundation of Christianity itself.

    How in the world can God ask himself to forgive others?

    I know, I know, it is the so-called "mystery" of the Faith.

    I'm sure much has been written by Christian theologians on this through the past two millennia, but it's still very hard for a critical thinker like myself to conceive.

    I apologize if me stating this offends anyone or instills doubt in others, that's not my intention.