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Author Topic: "Church of England approves female bishops plan"  (Read 1404 times)

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Offline Nishant

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"Church of England approves female bishops plan"
« on: November 24, 2013, 05:12:31 AM »
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    The Church of England is on course to give its final approval to female bishops next year after its General Synod voted in favour of new proposals to bring women into the episcopate, raising hopes of an end to the damaging and frequently bitter 20-year standoff between modernisers and traditionalists.

    On the third and final day of its meeting in London, the synod voted in favour of the new plans by an overwhelming majority of 378 to eight, with 25 abstentions.

    Proposing the new draft legislation, the bishop of Rochester, James Langstaff, recognised that the synod had been given a "second bite of the cherry" but said that it had come a long way since last November, when the last moves to introduce female bishops fell.

    He urged the synod to vote "as positively as it is able" for the proposals, adding: "People may have quibbles about various words and phrases within this statement of guiding principles, but I would ask you to remember that these are guiding principles, not holy writ nor a creedal statement.

    Although the first speech from the floor noted that "history makes us naturally cautious about optimists who wave docuмents that offer peace in our time" – and a later one described the previous failure as "missionally disastrous" – it soon became apparent that a consensus had been reached and that many key former opponents from the conservative evangelical and Anglo-Catholic wings of the synod had come to accept the new plans.

    The Rev Rod Thomas, chair of the conservative evangelical group Reform, conceded that his decision to vote against the previous draft legislation had been "a cause of shock, of bewilderment, of anger and of grief" to many.

    Thomas said that although he still had reservations over some aspects of the new package, he intended to support it even if he found himself unable to vote for final approval for female bishops next year.

    "In the spirit of agreement we have reached, in the spirit of wanting to achieve agreement I will vote for it," he said. "And even if at the end of the day I am unable to join the majority at synod – who I confidently expect to approve this by the required majorities – even if I am not able to join you, I shall rejoice in the measure of agreement that we have been able to reach."

    However, Reform's director, Susie Leafe, said she simply could not bring herself to follow suit.

    "How I wish that I, too, could stand here and say that all was well," she said. "But I can't … We claim that this package is designed to enable all to flourish yet I and my church can only flourish once we've denied our theological convictions and accepted a woman as our chief pastor."

    Prominent Anglo-Catholics who had opposed the previous legislation also announced they would back it.

    The Rev Paul Benfield – who sat on the steering committee that yielded the new proposals but had previously abstained from commending its recommendation to the synod – supported the new plans despite concerns over issues of jurisdiction.

    "I think this is a workable way forward and so I shall vote for this motion and I shall vote in the next debate to put this legislation for revision in full synod," he said. "I urge you all to do the same."

    Christina Rees, a member of the archbishops' council and veteran campaigner for female bishops, said she could scarcely believe how far the synod had come in 12 months.

    "If anyone had told me that one year on from last November we would be where we are, I would have said: 'That's impossible,'" she said. "But by the grace of God it has been possible and here we are. And I believe that what we are considering now is better than what we had last year and I also believe that we are better as a synod."

    Despite the outbreak of peace, the archbishop of York was careful to sound a note of caution and warn against premature rejoicing.

    "Your generous magnanimity is palpable," said John Sentamu. "However, may I bid us all that we should not open champagne bottles – or whatever drink we're going to celebrate with – because we need to continue to walk together till the end. As Francis Drake said: 'There must be a beginning of any great matter, but the continuing unto the end until it be thoroughly finished yields the true glory.' And until we all get together we need still to stick together and stay in the same place."

    Speaking after the ballot, the bishop of Rochester, who chaired the steering committee , said that he had been encouraged by the "hugely positive" vote, but stressed that there was no room for complacency.

    "There is still a lot of work to be done and people will have voted in favour of this because it's about continuing the process [but they] may or may not vote in favour of the package at the end of the day and that's a reality," he said. "So it's not over. I suspect I've got a job to do for the next few months."

    The bishop said much of the credit for the result belonged to the archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, who has worked as a mediator and peace negotiator in some of the most dangerous places in the world.

    "He is something of an advocate of conciliatory processes," said Langstaff. "Without those three facilitators working with us through the steering committee, I suspect we would not have got to where we've got to. And so I think Archbishop Justin's influence in that regard has been a significant mover-on of the process."

    Wednesday's vote comes a year to the day after the church was plunged into crisis when the last attempt to introduce female bishops was defeated by just six votes.

    The narrow defeat put the C of E under huge public and political pressure: its failure to resolve the issue was described by the church's most senior civil servant as a train crash, while David Cameron warned that the church needed "to get on with it".

    Langstaff denied that the church had felt under political pressure to resolve the issue, saying: "We had to do this anyway and it's far better that we should have done it ourselves than had somebody else do it for us or put pressure on us and we have done it."

    Asked where the church was after last year's "train crash", he offered a long metaphor that almost collapsed under the weight of its symbolic freight.

    "The train is on the tracks," he said. "The train is moving forwards and we know there are some stations we've got to pass through along the way, but we can begin to see the end of this particular journey."

    The synod had been asked to give first approval to plans produced by a steering committee of 15 that included five synod members who voted against last November's draft legislation.

    Among the recommendations is the creation of an ombudsman who would rule on disputes over arrangements once female bishops are in place.

    Under the plans, female bishops would be introduced with a house of bishops "declaration" setting out guidance for parishes where congregations reject female ministry.

    The ombudsman – appointed by the archbishops and with the backing of lay and clergy representatives in the General Synod – would be given power to investigate where complaints were made about arrangements.

    At the last meeting of General Synod in July, the church was told that if it did not move on female bishops, parliament would step in.

    Sir Tony Baldry, who speaks on the church's behalf in the House of Commons, told the York meeting: "If we haven't got this sorted by 2015 then I cannot account for the law of unintended consequences at Westminster as to the creative ability of colleagues on both sides of the house of getting involved in this.

    "I put it no further than this: a number of senior privy counsellors on both sides of the house are already putting their minds to how do they sort this if General Synod doesn't."

    The synod, he said, needed to remember that it did not exist in a bubble: "The world is looking at us – and not least parliament."

    The steering committee, however, appeared to have paid dividends and narrowed the differences on the issue. Those in favour of bringing women into the episcopate had been quietly confident the latest set of proposals would win favour at the synod and believed that some of the Anglo-Catholics and conservative evangelicals who opposed the previous attempt had become more open to finding a solution.

    Campaigners were also encouraged by a new, more collegiate spirit within the synod and last week's statement from the Anglo-Catholic group Forward in Faith urging its members to back the new plans.

    "Though these proposals are still far from what we have long said would be ideal, we believe that they may have the potential to provide workable arrangements for the future," said its chair, the Right Rev Jonathan Baker, bishop of Fulham.

    While acknowledging that some of the group's members would ultimately find themselves unable to vote in favour of female bishops should the synod take a final vote on the matter in a year's time, he said the proposals nonetheless held out "the possibility of bringing to a conclusion a process that for too long has been a distraction from the church's mission".

    "Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day become a formal heretic ... This is a statement I would sign in my blood." St. Montfort, Secret of the Rosary. I support the FSSP, the SSPX and other priests who work for the restoration of doctrinal orthodoxy and liturgical orthopraxis in the Church. I accept Vatican II if interpreted in the light of Tradition and canonisations as an infallible declaration that a person is in Heaven. Sedevacantism is schismatic and Ecclesiavacantism is heretical.


    Offline TKGS

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    "Church of England approves female bishops plan"
    « Reply #1 on: November 24, 2013, 05:23:18 AM »
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  • I wonder what the reaction to this will be in the Vatican.  A congratulatory note?


    Offline inspiritu20

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    "Church of England approves female bishops plan"
    « Reply #2 on: November 24, 2013, 05:26:05 AM »
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  • The Church of England is rushing towards its own end and the restoration of the Catholic faith to England - Our Lady's Dowry.  It was prophesied by Pope Leo XIII in 1893 that "when England returns to Walsingham, Our Lady will return  to England”

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    http://catholicismpure.wordpress.com/2011/07/06/when-england-returns-to-walsingham-our-lady-will-return-to-england/

    This year is the 950th anniversary of the traditional date of the vision that gave rise to the shrine at Walsingham.

    A local noble woman, Richeldis de Faverches (the surnamed is Norman, the first name, it appears, more Frankish or French), widowed but possessed of land and status, wished to do some “work” to honour Our Lady.

    In a vision she was taken to the Holy Land and shown the house at Nazareth where the angel Gabriel announced to Mary she was “full of grace” and was to “conceive a son”.

    Richeldis understood her “work” was to build a replica, or in the words of a ballad printed by King Henry VII’s printer Richard Pynson in about 1495, a “lyklynesse” that was to be a “newe Nazareth”.

    But this “Pynson Ballad” as it is known, goes on to state far more:

    O Englonde, great cause thou haste glad for to be,
    Compared to the londe of promys syon
    Thou atteynest my grace to stande in that degre
    Through this gloryous Ladyes supportacyon,
    To be called in every realme and regyon
    The holy lande, Oure Ladyes dowre;
    Thus arte thou named of olde antyquyte.


    This claim, to be Our Lady’s Dower, or Dowry – confirmed by Pope Leo XIII in 1893 – is an extraordinary one, shared by no other land.

    Neglected, forgotten, even scorned, but still prayed for and hymned in both Catholic and Anglican denominations at various levels, this is possibly the source of that sense of England being “special” that gave rise to poems such as Blake’s “Jerusalem” and informed Shakespeare’s stirring patriotic verse "This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England”

    The concept is that England is set apart  as a gift (dower or dowry comes from the Latin word dos that gives us words like donor or donation – it simply means “gift”) for the Mother of God alone. It is hers, as a “dower” house belongs to a widow, say.

    The “domaine” of Walsingham became a “holy lande”. In fact modern research, examined in a historical conference at Walsingham earlier in March that was a prelude to the year’s celebrations known as “Richeldis 950”, showed how the whole of the region around Walsingham was replete with wayside chapels, marker crosses,  pilgrim “entry points” in King’s Lynn, and buried trackways that even now centuries later are visible through the woods.

    Being brought back to life are the very contours of this ancient pilgrimage, like a lost and buried land surfacing into view.

    But the interest and focus of the this anniversary year is not confined to a kind of  ecclesial antiquarianism.

    Walsingham never was that. It was and is a potent source of spiritual help and “socoure”, as the old ballad says, “to all that devoutly visyte in this place”.

    In fact the power it held over the imagination of both royals and commoners – every King from Herny III in the 13th century to Henry VIII in the 16th , visited – was such that it was singled out for that reason for particularly vituperative – and one might add misogynistic -  destruction in 1538 by Thomas Cromwell’s  “Taliban”, in an attempt to eradicate all memory of the “witch of Walsingham” and her “idolatrous” beads, images and statues.

    The shrine was wiped from the map. Its priests disembowelled. The Holy House burnt to the ground. But its memory proved harder to destroy. The tale of its survival and re-emergence is a wonderful story in which both Anglicans and Catholics played a part. That is what this year of celebration proclaims, and with not just a pious hope but a real confidence and dynamism, given a startling contemporary impetus by the Ordinariate being proclaimed as that of Our Lady of Walsingham.


    Offline Sigismund

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    "Church of England approves female bishops plan"
    « Reply #3 on: November 24, 2013, 09:35:54 PM »
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  • Interesting, but really, who cares?  Anyone who doesn't want to ride the Anglican train straight to Hell has already gotten off at stations belonging to the True Church, Eastern Orthodoxy, or a Continuing Anglican jurisdiction not in communion with Canterbury.  
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    "Church of England approves female bishops plan"
    « Reply #4 on: November 24, 2013, 11:52:16 PM »
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  • The Church is England is behind the times...  There American counterparts have had lady bishops for almost 20 years now.

    There are some rarities in this world.  Finding an original Da Vinci in the garage of a house you bought - unlikely and extremely rare.  Buying a candy bar and being given a Buffalo Nickel from 1913 with the hump ground below the buffalos feet (or maybe it's the three legged buffalo I am thinking about) - that's rare beyond belief.

    Buying a old trunk from a garage sale and finding an authentic Honus Wagner baseball card worth over $3,000 - that's rare.

    However, none of the above is as rare as a devout Episcopalian.  They just don't take faith in Our Lord as something to be accepted because, as they see it, everyone knows that there is such a thing as modern science and we can't turn back the clock, don't ya know?

    Episcopalians do take global warming seriously.  

    However, no kidding either, why bring this topic up?  On their first day of existence, the Church of England was an abomination!  



    Offline Nishant

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    "Church of England approves female bishops plan"
    « Reply #5 on: November 25, 2013, 02:11:14 AM »
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  • I agree with inspiritu20 and Sigismund. And speaking of the Ordinariate,

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    Dissident Anglicans leave Church of England

    A first wave of about 600 Anglicans are officially leaving the Church of England in protest at the decision to ordain women as bishops.

    They will be enrolled as candidates to join a new branch of the Catholic Church - the Ordinariate - which has been specially created for them.

    They attended Catholic Mass marking Ash Wednesday before spending Lent preparing to convert.

    The Ordinariate is led by three former Anglican bishops.

    The group leaving the Church of England - which includes 20 members of the clergy - are unhappy about developments in Anglicanism they claim have led it away from traditions historically shared with Roman Catholics.

    'Goalposts shifted'

    Father Ed Tomlinson, who has stood down as a parish priest in Tunbridge Wells, Kent, said the Anglican Church had been "shifting the goalposts".

    "We couldn't continue to be Christians in a normal sense when we were in a maverick Church that kept changing the rules to appease the common culture," he said.

    He said changes to the rules on divorce and family had produced a "political Church where people campaign for things".

    Parishioner Kay Abbey, who is leaving her church in Hockley, Essex, said the ordination of women bishops was the final straw.

    "It just gets totally away from what we've been taught in the Bible that it comes through Jesus, through the male line," she told the BBC.

    "The Catholic tradition gives us that and that's the way I want to continue to go."

    Father Ed Tomlinson: Church is changing from 'a house of faith into a mock parliament'

    The converts' first formal step on their journey towards becoming a Catholic - the rite of election service - will take place in churches this weekend.

    Then after several weeks of preparation, they will become Catholics just before Easter and will then join the Ordinariate, which was set up by Pope Benedict specifically for former Anglicans.

    It is led by three former Anglican bishops - Andrew Burnham, Keith Newton and John Broadhurst - who themselves converted earlier this year.

    The Ordinariate will be funded initially by donations but its priests will not receive a salary, as they did in the Anglican Church.

    'Spaghetti junction'
    The BBC's religious affairs correspondent Robert Pigott said the numbers represent only a tiny proportion of the Church of England's clergy and membership, and are smaller than earlier estimates.

    But he said other clergy on the traditionalist wing were waiting to see what provisions would be made to allow them to escape oversight by women bishops in the future before deciding whether to follow suit.

    Church of England spokesman Steve Jenkins said that "movement between Churches is like a spaghetti junction".

    He said that official figures showed 14 Roman Catholic priests had converted to the Church of England in the past five years.

    The Catholic Church has described the establishment of the Ordinariate as "a unique and historic moment".

    Archbishop Vincent Nichols, the Catholic Church's leader in England and Wales, said: "It is to contribute to the wider goal of visible unity between our two Churches by helping us to know in practice how our patrimonies of faith and living can strengthen each other in our mission today."

    "Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day become a formal heretic ... This is a statement I would sign in my blood." St. Montfort, Secret of the Rosary. I support the FSSP, the SSPX and other priests who work for the restoration of doctrinal orthodoxy and liturgical orthopraxis in the Church. I accept Vatican II if interpreted in the light of Tradition and canonisations as an infallible declaration that a person is in Heaven. Sedevacantism is schismatic and Ecclesiavacantism is heretical.

    Offline Sigismund

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    "Church of England approves female bishops plan"
    « Reply #6 on: November 25, 2013, 07:21:37 AM »
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  • I wish all those joining the ordinariate well, and am certainly glad they have embraced the True Faith.  I would like to ask them, especially the clergy who can be presumed to have some theological education, what took them so long.  Many of them seem to have been, if not content, at least willing to let the rest of the group they called a church and were in communion with to do whatever it wanted as long as they could set up little traditionalist Anglican islands where they would have only male clergy.  
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline inspiritu20

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    "Church of England approves female bishops plan"
    « Reply #7 on: November 25, 2013, 08:00:32 AM »
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  • I suspect any answers would be fairly complex and would be shaped by history and a national character which views external rule - secular or spiritual - with some degree of suspicion.

    Historically, the faith was outlawed until Catholic emancipation in 1829.  Even then, the burdens placed on Catholics and the rules preventing them from participating fully in British society were not completely lifted and continue to this day.  

    To be Anglican was to be part of the very fabric of English society - it is the established Church and wields a great deal of power.  To be Catholic was to be part of a marginalised and hated minority.

    Growing up in a society where Catholics were generally considered to be duplicitous, work-shy troublemakers and where the only discussions of Christian doctrine are framed in an Anglican context, most candidates for holy orders wouldn't likely consider Catholicism.  Initially, at least.

    The Catholic Church in England hasn't exactly covered itself with glory either since the 60s and is widely perceived as being further advanced towards apostasy than the Anglican Church.  gαy masses, sodomite archbishops, scandalous behaviour among the priesthood may have persuaded some that it was better to stick with the devil they know.  

    Archbishop Nichols has been less than welcoming to the Ordinariate - offering them little in the way of support and mouthing off in public about his hopes for continued ecuмenical fraternisation and deploring privately Benedict XVI's olive branch to traditional Anglicans.  He's a well-known wolf within the sheep-fold and a scarier prospect than the last few Archbishops of Canterbury - weak and gutless characters who prefer to do nothing rather than rock any boats.

    Many Catholics have also observed that high Anglicanism preserved reverence and purity of ritual rather better than the NO Church cared to.  The Anglican Church always had its Kumbaya wing, but it has always been easy to avoid them.  

    Even with the introduction of women priests, traditionalist Anglicans could avoid the  political agenda as they were not permitted to minister to traditional parishes.  Everything has now changed with the new Archbishop of Canterbury and the likely introduction of women bishops and acceptance of gαy 'marriages'.

    I'd guess that many of those in the Ordinariate have agonised long and hard about separating themselves from a church which has always celebrated the art of compromise.  They've probably reached a point where they've realised that it's just not possible to compromise with a runaway train headed for the buffers at 130mph.

    Converts like Robert Hugh Benson, the vicar son of an Archbishop of Canterbury, have historically been few.  His autobiography is a fascinating study of the journey from Canterbury to Rome and well worth reading to understand what an Anglican of conscience goes through in choosing to make that journey.




    Offline Sigismund

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    "Church of England approves female bishops plan"
    « Reply #8 on: November 25, 2013, 05:25:54 PM »
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  • Very interesting points.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir