Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => Topic started by: AspiringToHeaven on August 03, 2021, 06:45:43 AM
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Thesis:
In the decadent West, fathers have been deprived of exercising their duty to corporally punish their wives and daughters. Hence we shouldn’t be at all surprised that women are now running wild in every sphere (e.g., destroying nations through their mass entry into politics). Most women in the West are no longer kept in check through the real threat of violence. This is surely a major part of why most women today are so degenerate, full of attitude, and grossly immodest.
Discuss. (Immersed as we all are in modernism, this is now an explosive thesis. I know. Kindly resist any temptation to virtue signal. The capacity to emote is no measure of virtue, especially when such emoting is in conformity with the dismal standards of a thoroughly degenerate age.)
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Sorry, but this is ridiculous. Women were much more virtuous in the past even without corporal punishment. Generally speaking, corporal punishment is effective only for the younger children who have not used the age of reason. After that, they must themselves adopt the proper mindset and attitude. What's happened is ideological, and philosophical, and theological. Even if women were submissive to their fathers and husbands, what exactly would they be submissive to when the men themselves have cast off the "yoke" of religion? If men don't obey God and the Church, then how are women to be expected to obey them? If the men's minds have been poisoned, then the women would be submissive to their evil. It all goes back to the nearly universal loss of faith. To reduce this to the lack of corporal punishment is absurd.
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Women were much more virtuous in the past even without corporal punishment. Generally speaking, corporal punishment is effective only for the younger children who have not used the age of reason. After that, they must themselves adopt the proper mindset and attitude. What's happened is ideological, and philosophical, and theological. Even if women were submissive to their fathers and husbands, what exactly would they be submissive to when the men themselves have cast off the "yoke" of religion? If men don't obey God and the Church, then how are women to be expected to obey them? If the men's minds have been poisoned, then the women would be submissive to their evil. It all goes back to the nearly universal loss of faith. To reduce this to the lack of corporal punishment is absurd.
Your words aren’t without truth. But also not without error. For example:
“Women were much more virtuous in the past even without corporal punishment.”
But the threat of it was always there. This is critical. It was always a real possibility.
“To reduce this to the lack of corporal punishment is absurd.”
Said reduction is no part of the thesis. Notice the word “major” in the last sentence of the thesis, thus conveying that there are other parts involved as well. The thesis hence posits a necessary but insufficient part of the explanation for women running wild today. Your “loss of faith” explanation is definitely another major part of the explanation.
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You seen obsessed with other people's women and with wanting to beat them. I hope you aren't married.
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Real men don't beat their wives. Especially if they claim to love them "as Christ loved the Church".
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Point me to where Scripture and Tradition permit us to beat our wives. Because I honestly doubt the Church condones such a practice usually found among weak men.
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Not saying men should use corporal punishment on their wives. I don't know much except I read a short quote where St. Thomas Aquinas talks about a husband correcting his wife "with blows" as if it were acceptable but that was just an offhand remark with no explanation. But even if St. Paul wrote a letter about how it is necessary and how to do it properly, most traditional Catholics would reject it as outdated and wrong and they would agree with the Novus Ordo taking that letter out of the Bible if it existed, because we live in simp world.
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Are you looking for an excuse to beat your wife or have other people beat theirs? As DigitalLogos said, only weak men beat their wives, real men find a real woman to marry who will be submissive and not have to be used as a punching bag. Also is it your wife's fault or the fault of other people on this forum that communist/feminist women (who are usually single btw) going into politics?
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Immersed as we all are in modernism
Modernism is heresy. Anyone defending any one modernist proposition is excommunicated ipso facto and is not Catholic.
Moreover, in order to check the daily increasing audacity of many modernists who are endeavoring by all kinds of sophistry and devices to detract from the force and efficacy not only of the decree “Lamentabili sane exitu” (the so-called Syllabus), issued by our order by the Holy Roman and Universal Inquisition on July 3 of the present year, but also of our encyclical letters “Pascendi dominici gregis” given on September 8 of this same year, we do by our apostolic authority repeat and confirm both that decree of the Supreme Sacred Congregation and those encyclical letters of ours, adding the penalty of excommunication against their contradictors, and this we declare and decree that should anybody, which may God forbid, be so rash as to defend any one of the propositions, opinions or teachings condemned in these docuмents he falls, ipso facto, under the censure contained under the chapter “Docentes” of the constitution “Apostolicae Sedis,” which is the first among the excommunications latae sententiae, simply reserved to the Roman Pontiff. This excommunication is to be understood as salvis poenis, which may be incurred by those who have violated in any way the said docuмents, as propagators and defenders of heresies, when their propositions, opinions and teachings are heretical, as has happened more than once in the case of the adversaries of both these docuмents, especially when they advocate the errors of the modernists that is, the synthesis of all heresies.
https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius10/p10prasc.htm
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Fascinating reactions on a “traditionalist” forum.
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Fascinating reactions on a “traditionalist” forum.
You're either delusional or a troll
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Fascinating reactions on a “traditionalist” forum.
Trads don't beat women
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Thesis:
In the decadent West, fathers have been deprived of exercising their duty to corporally punish their wives and daughters. Hence we shouldn’t be at all surprised that women are now running wild in every sphere (e.g., destroying nations through their mass entry into politics). Most women in the West are no longer kept in check through the real threat of violence. This is surely a major part of why most women today are so degenerate, full of attitude, and grossly immodest.
Discuss. (Immersed as we all are in modernism, this is now an explosive thesis. I know. Kindly resist any temptation to virtue signal. The capacity to emote is no measure of virtue, especially when such emoting is in conformity with the dismal standards of a thoroughly degenerate age.)
You started a thread on the same subject of corporeal punishment on wives in another thread. I asked you there a question you never anwered:
Last Tradhican wrote: One man's "corporal discipline" of wives is another's wife beating. Let's cut to the chase: What is your method in detail?
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We have a massive infamous thread on this subject a long time ago.
There is some small bit of opinion which holds that corporal punishment of wives by their husbands is permissible, in extreme cases like adultery, but I disagree. While it is permissible for a father to impose corporal punishment on his children, husbands are required to honor their wives. Just as it would be wrong to strike a parent (since we are commanded to honor them), I hold that the requirement to for husbands to honor their wives precludes corporal punishment as it would against a parent. And even if it WERE permissible, almost everyone would agree that it's extremely imprudent and would likely not have its intended effect.
While it's permissible for daughters, even there I disagree that lack of corporal punishment is responsible for their decline in mores. If anything, if a girl already has a feminist mindset, corporal punishment would only increase that due to their resentment. Of course, younger girls below the age of reason might benefit from some corporal punishment since it can help to curb bad behaviors when "reasoning" with them cannot. For older girls, this would likely increase their resentment of all male authority figures and would incline them toward feminism.
If the ONLY thing holding women and girls back from bad behavior were corporal punishment, the battle is likely already lost for their souls ... even if it were sufficient to curb some behavior due to the deterrent and the fear.
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We have a massive infamous thread on this subject a long time ago.
There is some small bit of opinion which holds that corporal punishment of wives by their husbands is permissible, in extreme cases like adultery, but I disagree. While it is permissible for a father to impose corporal punishment on his children, husbands are required to honor their wives. Just as it would be wrong to strike a parent (since we are commanded to honor them), I hold that the requirement to for husbands to honor their wives precludes corporal punishment as it would against a parent. And even if it WERE permissible, almost everyone would agree that it's extremely imprudent and would likely not have its intended effect.
While it's permissible for daughters, even there I disagree that lack of corporal punishment is responsible for their decline in mores. If anything, if a girl already has a feminist mindset, corporal punishment would only increase that due to their resentment. Of course, younger girls below the age of reason might benefit from some corporal punishment since it can help to curb bad behaviors when "reasoning" with them cannot. For older girls, this would likely increase their resentment of all male authority figures and would incline them toward feminism.
If the ONLY thing holding women and girls back from bad behavior were corporal punishment, the battle is likely already lost for their souls ... even if it were sufficient to curb some behavior due to the deterrent and the fear.
Giving my son a quick spank on the butt does wonders. But I haven't really done so with my daughter because it doesn't have the same effect, she tends to lash out more.
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When I read St. Augustine's Confessions, one thing I remember (and was surprised by) is that many of the husbands at that place and time beat their wives. And the wives were surprised that St. Monica's husband didn't beat her because he had a bad temper. And she would tell them that if they didn't want to be beaten by their husbands they should not contradict him or argue with him, especially if he had been drinking. If she would be submissive to him then he would probably not beat her. I don't recall St. Augustine giving a condemnation or an approval of corporal punishment in general, though it may have been there and I just don't remember.
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In the decadent West, fathers have been deprived of exercising their duty to corporally punish their wives and daughters. Hence we shouldn’t be at all surprised that women are now running wild in every sphere
It takes much more than just corporeal punishment to raise children. I have a wife and many daughters, and not once have I struck them. They all dress and behave like Catholic ladies. All it takes to raise them right is too always speak truth, not play games with God. My wife was chosen for me by God, because I was not seeking a wife, but only truth. My wife is my other half, if I forget something, she fills in, and if she forgets something I fill in. It takes two working as one to raise the children. My wife, cooks and homeschools the children K- 12+++, and is an example of a mother. My wife and I are examples for our children to emulate.
Last Tradhican wrote: One man's "corporal discipline" of wives is another's wife beating. Let's cut to the chase: What is your method in detail?
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You started a thread on the same subject of corporeal punishment on wives in another thread. I asked you there a question you never anwered:
I’d like to answer in detail, but I have to be very restrained in my words here. Under another name (several, really), I was kicked out of this forum 9 years ago for being insufficiently observant of the delicate sensibilities here. No doubt, many Millennials populate this forum. Very fragile. I learned my lesson.
Hence I’m content to mostly just read the fascinatingly revealing (of conformity to the putrefied modern world) answers being given.
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Giving my son a quick spank on the butt does wonders. But I haven't really done so with my daughter because it doesn't have the same effect, she tends to lash out more.
For the younger kids, corporal punishment does in fact work wonders in terms of curbing behaviors that might otherwise become habitual. Later, however, once they reach the age of reason, the battle is for their minds and souls. One can inflict all manner of corporal punishment, but if they do not become persuaded of what is right and wrong on their own, the second they become independent and leave your control, they'll pursue their own course.
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I’d like to answer in detail, but I have to be very restrained in my words here. Under another name (several, really), I was kicked out of this forum 9 years ago for being insufficiently observant of the delicate sensibilities here. No doubt, many Millennials populate this forum. Very fragile. I learned my lesson.
Hence I’m content to mostly just read the fascinatingly revealing (of conformity to the putrefied modern world) answers being given.
Why should you care what anyone thinks of what you say? Your response sounds cowardly to me. Cut to the chase: What is the method you propose in detail?
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No doubt, many Millennials populate this forum. Very fragile.
I am among the oldest of the Millenials. I am very fragile. I get upset when Catholics defend the theory of evolution or Zionism.
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Why should you care what anyone thinks of what you say? Your response sounds cowardly to me. Cut to the chase: What is the method you propose in detail?
I again must refuse your invitation. And I rest content with you thinking that my refusal is cowardly.
I bid you good day.
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AspiringToHeaven, Women are different then children. If you beat a woman she will hate you and the problems will become worse, beating doesn't do anything beneficial. Why do you think Catholics need to beat women? Its actually very paganistic to treat women like animals.
If punishment needs to be dealt there are other methods of doing so without physicly harming the individual.
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When I read St. Augustine's Confessions, one thing I remember (and was surprised by) is that many of the husbands at that place and time beat their wives. And the wives were surprised that St. Monica's husband didn't beat her because he had a bad temper. And she would tell them that if they didn't want to be beaten by their husbands they should not contradict him or argue with him, especially if he had been drinking. If she would be submissive to him then he would probably not beat her. I don't recall St. Augustine giving a condemnation or an approval of corporal punishment in general, though it may have been there and I just don't remember.
19. Being thus modestly and soberly trained, and rather made subject by You to her parents, than by her parents to You, when she had arrived at a marriageable age, she was given to a husband whom she served as her lord. And she busied herself to gain him to You, preaching You unto him by her behaviour; by which You made her fair, and reverently amiable, and admirable unto her husband. For she so bore the wronging of her bed as never to have any dissension with her husband on account of it. For she waited for Your mercy upon him, that by believing in You he might become chaste. And besides this, as he was earnest in friendship, so was he violent in anger; but she had learned that an angry husband should not be resisted, neither in deed, nor even in word. But so soon as he was grown calm and tranquil, and she saw a fitting moment, she would give him a reason for her conduct, should he have been excited without cause. In short, while many matrons, whose husbands were more gentle, carried the marks of blows on their dishonoured faces, and would in private conversation blame the lives of their husbands, she would blame their tongues, monishing them gravely, as if in jest: "That from the hour they heard what are called the matrimonial tablets read to them, they should think of them as instruments whereby they were made servants; so, being always mindful of their condition, they ought not to set themselves in opposition to their lords." And when they, knowing what a furious husband she endured, marvelled that it had never been reported, nor appeared by any indication, that Patricius had beaten his wife, or that there had been any domestic strife between them, even for a day, and asked her in confidence the reason of this, she taught them her rule, which I have mentioned above. They who observed it experienced the wisdom of it, and rejoiced; those who observed it not were kept in subjection, and suffered.
Confessions IX (https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/110109.htm)
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Each husband is the head of his family, and it is his responsibility to decide whether or not, when, and in which way to castigate his wife or children.
Bad enough, today, our culturally marxist "Republics" intervene in family affairs. That's against natural law.
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AspiringToHeaven, Women are different then children. If you beat a woman she will hate you and the problems will become worse, beating doesn't do anything beneficial. Why do you think Catholics need to beat women? Its actually very paganistic to treat women like animals.
If punishment needs to be dealt there are other methods of doing so without physicly harming the individual.
My good man, nowhere have I advocated “beating.”
Kindly curb your muliebral hysteria.
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😞 Sigh! Are you another troll? 😈
For the sake of argument, let’s say a woman is a larger sized girl. The punishment in my house for moral offenses by those with reason, but before puberty was to receive one smack with the strap for each year of age, to render restitution as appropriate to the offense, and if old enough, to write out the Act of Contrition for each year of age.
Now, let’s suppose your wife of 38 years of age has gone out and squandered your hard-earned money on immodest clothes, jewelry, and make-up. She had her spree at a store going out of business, so that nothing can be returned. When you discover the items in five huge shopping bags secreted in the closet, you confront her. She argues back, but eventually admits to having done wrong. Since justice must prevail, you smack her bottom good and hard 38 times, and present her with several pencils, a notebook, and pencil sharpener. “Get busy writing the Act of Contrition!” And you make sure you’re nearby to see she’s steadily working. Afterwards, you discuss her sin, it’s consequences, and have her make restitution in the only way possible, the immodest clothing must be burned. You then go outside, make a fire in the fire pit, and supervise her as she drops the items in, one by one. On Saturday, you make sure she’s the first person on the Confession line.
If every man did this, the world would surely be a better place.😵💫😵💫
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😞 Sigh! Are you another troll? 😈
For the sake of argument, let’s say a woman is a larger sized girl. The punishment in my house for moral offenses by those with reason, but before puberty was to receive one smack with the strap for each year of age, to render restitution as appropriate to the offense, and if old enough, to write out the Act of Contrition for each year of age.
Now, let’s suppose your wife of 38 years of age has gone out and squandered your hard-earned money on immodest clothes, jewelry, and make-up. She had her spree at a store going out of business, so that nothing can be returned. When you discover the items in five huge shopping bags secreted in the closet, you confront her. She argues back, but eventually admits to having done wrong. Since justice must prevail, you smack her bottom good and hard 38 times, and present her with several pencils, a notebook, and pencil sharpener. “Get busy writing the Act of Contrition!” And you make sure you’re nearby to see she’s steadily working. Afterwards, you discuss her sin, it’s consequences, and have her make restitution in the only way possible, the immodest clothing must be burned. You then go outside, make a fire in the fire pit, and supervise her as she drops the items in, one by one. On Saturday, you make sure she’s the first person on the Confession line.
If every man did this, the world would surely be a better place.😵💫😵💫
That’s quite the detailed hypothetical scenario.
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That’s quite the detailed hypothetical scenario.
:cowboy:
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😞 Sigh! Are you another troll? 😈
For the sake of argument, let’s say a woman is a larger sized girl….
Now, let’s suppose your wife of 38 years of age has gone out and squandered your hard-earned money on immodest clothes, jewelry, and make-up. She had her spree at a store going out of business, so that nothing can be returned. When you discover the items in five huge shopping bags secreted in the closet, you confront her. She argues back, but eventually admits to having done wrong. Since justice must prevail, you smack her bottom good and hard 38 times, and present her with several pencils, a notebook, and pencil sharpener. “Get busy writing the Act of Contrition!” And you make sure you’re nearby to see she’s steadily working. Afterwards, you discuss her sin, it’s consequences, and have her make restitution in the only way possible, the immodest clothing must be burned. You then go outside, make a fire in the fire pit, and supervise her as she drops the items in, one by one. On Saturday, you make sure she’s the first person on the Confession line.
If every man did this, the world would surely be a better place.😵💫😵💫
As for “larger sized girl,” do you mean fat?
Regarding your detailed disciplinary scenario, it sounds pretty good, though a little light on said discipline. Still, many thanks for laying it out.
Different behaviors would of course merit different disciplinary measures. For example, if the wife were caught feeding the family soy, the consequent disciplinary measures would be different than those you describe above.
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That’s quite the detailed hypothetical scenario.
Ideas translate to actions. This is merely an example of a real-life application. 💁🏼♀️