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Author Topic: Wizard of Oz...communist?  (Read 3175 times)

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Offline PenitentWoman

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Wizard of Oz...communist?
« on: August 11, 2012, 07:55:53 PM »
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  • Last night at work a trailer came on TV for the new Disney movie "Oz the Great and Powerful" which comes out next spring.

    I was telling one of the patrons (an older gentleman) that as a little girl, I never liked "The Wizard of Oz" much because the Wicked Witch was too scary and there was no romance in the story line. ;-)

    Anyway, he told me it was good that I never liked it because the entire movie was communist propaganda.  

    I didn't get the chance to ask what he meant (and I should probably know already) but what specifically makes this movie/book communist? Is it the story line itself or  something with the production of the movie, or maybe both?

    I was just curious and I figured this seems like a good group for asking this type of question.  :)  
    ~For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for? But if we hope for that which we see not, we wait for it with patience. ~ Romans 8:24-25


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Wizard of Oz...communist?
    « Reply #1 on: August 11, 2012, 08:09:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: PenitentWoman
    Last night at work a trailer came on TV for the new Disney movie "Oz the Great and Powerful" which comes out next spring.

    I was telling one of the patrons (an older gentleman) that as a little girl, I never liked "The Wizard of Oz" much because the Wicked Witch was too scary and there was no romance in the story line. ;-)

    Anyway, he told me it was good that I never liked it because the entire movie was communist propaganda.  

    I didn't get the chance to ask what he meant (and I should probably know already) but what specifically makes this movie/book communist? Is it the story line itself or  something with the production of the movie, or maybe both?

    I was just curious and I figured this seems like a good group for asking this type of question.  :)  


    I'm not so sure it's really "Communist' in any easily discernible way.  Rather there were a lot of Communists involved in making the movie.

    The book has political allegory in it.  

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_interpretations_of_The_Wonderful_Wizard_of_Oz

    A sequel is actually about a feminist take-over of the Emerald City.


    Offline PenitentWoman

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    Wizard of Oz...communist?
    « Reply #2 on: August 11, 2012, 08:26:10 PM »
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  • Thanks.

     All I could find was this: http://pairedtexts.blogspot.com/2011/05/communism-in-oz.html  

    I don't have a great interest in politics, but I was curious about this. I've read a lot of things about hidden messages in other fairy tales too.

    My friend was telling me about the Disney movie "Brave" and apparently it is about a Princess who uses witchcraft to get out of her betrothal so she can be a single woman and practice her archery skills. Oh how the Princess series has changed from the innocent Damsel in Distress story line to feminist rebellion.



    Quote from: Telesphorus

    A sequel is actually about a feminist take-over of the Emerald City.


    Awww yes. Wicked the musical.   I think this new one might be a prequel.

    Edit: By innocent I was referring to he princess herself, not the movie. I know the elements of magic etc. are not Catholic.
    ~For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for? But if we hope for that which we see not, we wait for it with patience. ~ Romans 8:24-25

    Offline PenitentWoman

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    Wizard of Oz...communist?
    « Reply #3 on: August 11, 2012, 08:47:38 PM »
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  • Raoul, that is...deep.   :thinking:  I could have never come up with something like that.

    So is this:  http://freedom-school.com/the_wizard_of_oz.pdf

    I think I need to go back to my usual thinking about tomatoes and dresses and babies...  :wink:  


    ...but feel free to continue!
    ~For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for? But if we hope for that which we see not, we wait for it with patience. ~ Romans 8:24-25

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Wizard of Oz...communist?
    « Reply #4 on: August 11, 2012, 08:53:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: PenitentWoman
    Thanks.

     All I could find was this: http://pairedtexts.blogspot.com/2011/05/communism-in-oz.html  

    I don't have a great interest in politics, but I was curious about this. I've read a lot of things about hidden messages in other fairy tales too.

    My friend was telling me about the Disney movie "Brave" and apparently it is about a Princess who uses witchcraft to get out of her betrothal so she can be a single woman and practice her archery skills. Oh how the Princess series has changed from the innocent Damsel in Distress story line to feminist rebellion.



    Quote from: Telesphorus

    A sequel is actually about a feminist take-over of the Emerald City.


    Awww yes. Wicked the musical.   I think this new one might be a prequel.

    Edit: By innocent I was referring to he princess herself, not the movie. I know the elements of magic etc. are not Catholic.


    My parochial school library (St. Margaret of Cortona) had a complete set of Wizard of Oz series books - I'll go look upstairs - she rescued them, it looks like I can't find the plot summary about the feminist take-over.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Wizard of Oz...communist?
    « Reply #5 on: August 11, 2012, 08:56:08 PM »
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  • Brigitte Helm, when she's playing the robot, poses as the whore of Babylon, I don't claim to understand metropolis, but there's nothing hidden about the symbolism.  

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Wizard of Oz...communist?
    « Reply #6 on: August 11, 2012, 09:06:09 PM »
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  • Quote from: The Land of Oz
    The Guardian of the Gate at once came out and looked at them curiously, as if a circus had come to town. He carried a bunch of keys swung round his neck by a golden chain; his hands were thrust carelessly into his pockets, and he seemed to have no idea at all that the City was threatened by rebels. Speaking pleasantly to the girls, he said:

    "Good morning, my dears! What can I do for you?"

    "Surrender instantly!" answered General Jinjur, standing before him and frowning as terribly as her pretty face would allow her to.

    "Surrender!" echoed the man, astounded. "Why, it's impossible. It's against the law! I never heard of such a thing in my life."

    "Still, you must surrender!" exclaimed the General, fiercely. "We are revolting!"

    "You don't look it," said the Guardian, gazing from one to another, admiringly.

    "But we are!" cried Jinjur, stamping her foot, impatiently; "and we mean to conquer the Emerald City!"

    "Good gracious!" returned the surprised Guardian of the Gates; "what a nonsensical idea! Go home to your mothers, my good girls, and milk the cows and bake the bread. Don't you know it's a dangerous thing to conquer a city?"

    "We are not afraid!" responded the General; and she looked so determined that it made the Guardian uneasy.

    So he rang the bell for the Soldier with the Green Whiskers, and the next minute was sorry he had done so. For immediately he was surrounded by a crowd of girls who drew the knitting-needles from their hair and began Jabbing them at the Guardian with the sharp points dangerously near his fat cheeks and blinking eyes.

    The poor man howled loudly for mercy and made no resistance when Jinjur drew the bunch of keys from around his neck.

    Followed by her Army the General now rushed

    to the gateway, where she was confronted by the Royal Army of Oz -- which was the other name for the Soldier with the Green Whiskers.

    "Halt!" he cried, and pointed his long gun full in the face of the leader.

    Some of the girls screamed and ran back, but General Jinjur bravely stood her ground and said, reproachfully:

    "Why, how now? Would you shoot a poor, defenceless girl?"

    "No," replied the soldier. "for my gun isn't loaded."

    "Not loaded?"

    "No; for fear of accidents. And I've forgotten where I hid the powder and shot to load it with. But if you'll wait a short time I'll try to hunt them up."

    "Don't trouble yourself," said Jinjur, cheerfully. Then she turned to her Army and cried:

    "Girls, the gun isn't loaded!"

    "Hooray," shrieked the rebels, delighted at this good news, and they proceeded to rush upon the Soldier with the Green Whiskers in such a crowd that it was a wonder they didn't stick the knitting-needles into one another.

    But the Royal Army of Oz was too much afraid of women to meet the onslaught. He simply turned about and ran with all his might through the gate and toward the royal palace, while General Jinjur and her mob flocked into the unprotected City.

    In this way was the Emerald City captured without a drop of blood being spilled. The Army of Revolt had become an Army of Conquerors!


    http://classiclit.about.com/library/bl-etexts/lfbaum/bl-lfbaum-marv-8.htm

    Offline PenitentWoman

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    Wizard of Oz...communist?
    « Reply #7 on: August 11, 2012, 09:14:37 PM »
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  • I've never seen Metropolis.


    That excerpt from the Oz sequel is fascinating. Wouldn't such a story have been fairly bold for the time it was written?
    ~For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for? But if we hope for that which we see not, we wait for it with patience. ~ Romans 8:24-25


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Wizard of Oz...communist?
    « Reply #8 on: August 11, 2012, 09:21:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: PenitentWoman
    I've never seen Metropolis.


    That excerpt from the Oz sequel is fascinating. Wouldn't such a story have been fairly bold for the time it was written?


    I was looking for a plot summary online that mentioned feminism, I couldn't find one (I wasn't looking very hard though), I went upstairs and looked at the collection to make sure I was thinking of the right book in the series. (it's the second one)

    No, it's not really bold, it's supposed to be gently humorous.  

    PW, if you want to read about feminism and anti-feminism at the beginning of the 20th Century, try google books and archive.org

    Feminism its fallacies and follies by John and Prestonia Martin is a really good one.




    Offline PenitentWoman

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    Wizard of Oz...communist?
    « Reply #9 on: August 11, 2012, 09:29:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote from: PenitentWoman
    I've never seen Metropolis.


    That summary for the Oz sequel is fascinating. Wouldn't such a story have been fairly bold for the time it was written?


    That's an excerpt.  I was looking for a plot summary that mentioned feminism, I couldn't find one (I wasn't looking very hard though), I went upstairs and looked at the collection to make sure I was thinking of the right book in the series. (it's the second one)

    No, it's not really bold, it's supposed to be gently humorous.  

    PW, if you want to read about feminism and anti-feminism at the beginning of the 20th Century, try google books and archive.org

    Feminism its fallacies and follies by John and Prestonia Martin is a really good one.





    LOL I  edited out the word summary as soon as I read it back. I'm a little slow tonight. Slower than usual I should say. ;)

    Thank you for the reading ideas. I've only ever read "the other side" of the history of feminism.
    ~For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for? But if we hope for that which we see not, we wait for it with patience. ~ Romans 8:24-25

    Offline Traditional Guy 20

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    Wizard of Oz...communist?
    « Reply #10 on: August 11, 2012, 11:33:26 PM »
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  • Well by the late-1930's Hollywood became so pro-Communist that anti-Communist films could not be made and pro-Soviet films were routinely turned out, so it would not be too surprising if these Hollywood films have Communist overtones.


    Offline Belloc

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    Wizard of Oz...communist?
    « Reply #11 on: August 13, 2012, 07:57:53 AM »
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  • was surprised not long ago to learn that the actor playing Grandpa Walton was both a lifelong marxist and bisɛҳuąƖ.......

    cant really watch the Waltons, now, w/o that sad in my mind.....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Catholic Samurai

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    Wizard of Oz...communist?
    « Reply #12 on: August 13, 2012, 03:40:09 PM »
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  • The Wizard of Oz might not be so much Communistic as it is occultic.

    Frank Baum became a Theosophist (officially anyway) several years before he began writing the Oz books.
    "Louvada Siesa O' Sanctisimo Sacramento!"~warcry of the Amakusa/Shimabara rebels

    "We must risk something for God!"~Hernan Cortes


    TEJANO AND PROUD!

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Wizard of Oz...communist?
    « Reply #13 on: September 07, 2012, 03:27:32 PM »
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  • The movie version of Wizard of Oz with Judy Garland came out in 1939,
    and it was based on a 1900 book by L. Frank Baum, The Wonderful
    Wizard of Oz
    . 1939 was 22 years after 1917. Baum wrote sequels,
    one almost every year, until his death in 1919.

    There were particular elements in the movie that were not in the original
    book. Other elements that were in the book were not included in the
    movie, for various reasons. I don't know about the various sequels, as I
    can't find any copies of those. I'm going by the various summaries to be
    found online.

    One difference is the arrival of Glinda, the "good witch," by means of a
    glowing orb that drifts in through the air and alights in the presence of
    Dorothy and others. I cannot but think of the similarity of this to the
    arrival of Our Lady at Fatima. The glowing orb is reminiscent of the disc
    that would be the sun in the sky during the Miracle of the Sun, which
    moved toward earth, albeit in a menacing manner. So the movie
    combined the two themes and made the "good witch" arrive by means
    of the descending and glowing orb.

    In the book, the place Dorothy went to was not in a dream, but a real
    place to which she could later return. In the movie, Munchkinland and
    Oz were places inaccessible to Dorothy after her return to Kansas.
    Likewise, for Sister Lucia, she would never be able to "return to Fatima"
    and those days of the visions she and her cousins had were locked in
    her distant past, as if in a dream.

    In the movie, Dorothy's house falls on the Wicked Witch of the East,
    crushing her head with the rest of her body - except for her feet,
    which were left exposed from under the house. Dorothy then wears the
    Ruby Slippers, which came from the witch, and these slippers will give
    Dorothy great powers over evil. At Fatima, it is the heel of Our Lady
    that threatens to crush the head of satan, and the Message of Fatima
    is a powerful weapon against the wiles of the devil. The three shepherd
    children carry this powerful Message with them (as Dorothy wore the
    slippers!) which makes them practically invincible against evil. The
    precise arrangement of elements is different, but the themes of a heel
    being part of the feet and a head being part of a body and not the feet,
    are curiously similar.

    On the way to the castle of the Wicked Witch of the West, Dorothy and
    her dog, Toto are captured and imprisoned, with the threat that the
    witch will drown Toto unless Dorothy gives her the Ruby Slippers. At
    Fatima, the shepherd children were kidnapped by the mayor of Ourem,
    and threatened with death by boiling oil, unless they give him the Secret
    from the Lady that they conceal. It seems that this imprisonment theme
    and threat of death by immersion in a liquid  unless the symbol of power
    is relinquished, is missing entirely from the original book.

    In the book, Oz is a real place where Dorothy physically visits when a
    tornado actually transports her there, but in the movie, it seems to be a
    dreamland. Even so, the movie's depiction of the land of Oz has a more
    realistic flavor, as if it is more real than her parent's farm in Kansas. This
    dreamland portion of the movie was shot in Technicolor, while the first
    and last parts regarding life in Kansas were shot in sepia-toned Black
    and White. This was a huge break with tradition in film making, where
    quasi-reality is in Black and White and real life is shot in color. The
    question, "Do you dream in color?" seems to have come from this. In
    Book of Dreams, by Sylvia Browne, the color dream is a prophetic
    dream. Prophetic dreams are always in color.

    Now, remember, during the Miracle of the Sun, the "whole world" was
    splashed with vibrant colors, causing the normal and mundane world from
    which the crowd had come, and to which it returned after the Miracle, to
    seem "Black and White" in comparison!

    At Fatima, the spiritual reality that the seers experienced became for
    them the REAL reality of existence - their real home - and this temporal
    world on earth became for them a kind of less permanent place, a sort
    of pilgrimage. This is actually a very Catholic principle of life. This seems
    to hint at the big switch the movie made from having the land of Oz a real
    part of earth in the original book, to having it be an inaccessible place of
    a different reality, in color, compared to life in Kansas in Black and White,
    as it seemed to Dorothy before and after her dream-experience.



    All of these things, and perhaps more, combine to give the movie the
    appearance of having been influenced by reports of the apparitions in
    Fatima.

    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Traditional Guy 20

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    Wizard of Oz...communist?
    « Reply #14 on: September 07, 2012, 04:04:33 PM »
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  • Don't fool yourself NO. One should not look for Christian overtones in Hollywood movies, trust me. Besides Judy Garland was a lesbian and this movie became a rallying cry, so to speak, for ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs and lesbians.