Is abortion wrong because it violates human rights (every human has the right to live) or because it violates  God's rights (God is the author of life and death and therefoe only He has the right to give and take life*)? I would say that, primarily, abortion is wrong because it violates God's rights and secondarily because innocent life is taken away unjustly. I feel like a lot of anti-abortion activists nowadays, even Christian ones,  focus a lot more on the human rights aspect and don't pay much attention to God's rights. What are you're thoughts?


*Capital punishment is God's justice being executed through a human instrument (Romans 13..) and self defense is lawful because everyone has the natural right to fight for his life. As long as he doesn't use excessive force or intend to kill the aggressor.

Is abortion wrong because it violates human rights (every human has the right to live) or because it violates  God's rights (God is the author of life and death and therefoe only He has the right to give and take life*)? I would say that, primarily, abortion is wrong because it violates God's rights and secondarily because innocent life is taken away unjustly. I feel like a lot of anti-abortion activists nowadays, even Christian ones,  focus a lot more on the human rights aspect and don't pay much attention to God's rights. What are you're thoughts?


*Capital punishment is God's justice being executed through a human instrument (Romans 13..) and self defense is lawful because everyone has the natural right to fight for his life. As long as he doesn't use excessive force or intend to kill the aggressor.

It is usual that anti-abortion groups are Catholic. As I understand it the most sinister aspect to abortion is the denial of Baptism. Life is given by God with the intent that that life will be with Him in paradise. I was taught innocent souls without Baptism cannot go to heaven, but go to Limbo, a place of perfect human happiness.

At a pro-life convention, filled with Catholics and some priests I asked why Catholic pro-lifers do not quote Catholic teaching to try to prevent Catholics at least from having abortions. I said if Catholic men and women were told they were preventing a person created by God from getting into heaven they might think twice about it.
There was utter silence in the room. One then quoted Pope John Paul II who suggested all such aborted souls go to heaven. I then asked why any Catholic would oppose abortion if all go to heaven immediately. How many souls could be saved from hell if they were not aborted?

Again silence. The chairperson then suggested a priest would meet me after the meeting so he could clarify my opinion.

Needless to say no priest dared come near me. So, it seems pro-lifers do so from a huimanist popint of view.

Quote from: Mercyandjustice

Is abortion wrong because it violates human rights (every human has the right to live) or because it violates  God's rights (God is the author of life and death and therefoe only He has the right to give and take life*)? I would say that, primarily, abortion is wrong because it violates God's rights and secondarily because innocent life is taken away unjustly. I feel like a lot of anti-abortion activists nowadays, even Christian ones,  focus a lot more on the human rights aspect and don't pay much attention to God's rights. What are you're thoughts?


*Capital punishment is God's justice being executed through a human instrument (Romans 13..) and self defense is lawful because everyone has the natural right to fight for his life. As long as he doesn't use excessive force or intend to kill the aggressor.

It is usual that anti-abortion groups are Catholic. As I understand it the most sinister aspect to abortion is the denial of Baptism. Life is given by God with the intent that that life will be with Him in paradise. I was taught innocent souls without Baptism cannot go to heaven, but go to Limbo, a place of perfect human happiness.

At a pro-life convention, filled with Catholics and some priests I asked why Catholic pro-lifers do not quote Catholic teaching to try to prevent Catholics at least from having abortions. I said if Catholic men and women were told they were preventing a person created by God from getting into heaven they might think twice about it.
There was utter silence in the room. One then quoted Pope John Paul II who suggested all such aborted souls go to heaven. I then asked why any Catholic would oppose abortion if all go to heaven immediately. How many souls could be saved from hell if they were not aborted?

Again silence. The chairperson then suggested a priest would meet me after the meeting so he could clarify my opinion.

Needless to say no priest dared come near me. So, it seems pro-lifers do so from a huimanist popint of view.

Yeah, the unjust denial of baptism is pretty evil. But Saying that aborted babies go to heaven pretty much does away completely with the sacrament of baptism. Catholicism teaches that one needs sanctifying grace in order to go to heaven. You can only receive such grace at and after baptism. It is very sad when a baby is aborted, but that doesn't mean we should undermine Catholic teaching! There is definitely a little humanism going on there.

Quote from: TKGS

ALL sin is wrong because it violates what we owe to God, or, as you put it, "God's rights".  Abortion, in particular, is a violation of the Fifth Commandment.  Birth control is often a direct killing of a person while even methods that are not abortifacient in nature prevent lives that should be.  

Frankly, I'm not sure I understand why this question is being asked.

Beacause I was looking for opinions about why youyou think abortion is primarily wrong. Also,  if you think pro lifers are more about the humanist aspect of abortion.  I Obviously know abortion is evil.

Ok.  Did my answer adequately answer your question?

The Fifth Commandment: "Thou shalt not Kill."

The Fifth Commandment forbids (1) Homicide, (2) Killing of the unborn, (3)
ѕυιcιdє, (4) bodily violence, (5) anger, (6) hatred, (7) quarreling,
(8) revenge, (9) injurious language, (10) scandal and bad example.

If the error is fought on the enemies terms the argument is already lost. The battle is lost. The media here is not biased, it is corrupt and anti Catholic.  Constantly in pro-life circles here in Ireland we hear 'there are extremes on both sides of the debate'.

Some are even falling for enemy propaganda regarding Industrial schools and Magdalen Homes. Having said that some of the young folk coming up the line are well equipped to defend the church and the faith.

The corruption of the youth is all part of their plan and we saw young people brainwashed with 'Yes to Equality'. The 'Catholic' school is a place of learning lies and error. Young people at the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ marches and pro abortion rallies is a sad sight.

Perhaps there is a need for a pamphlet that could be distributed? From time to time a few of us distribute material. Usually type something up and share at local level.

Are there still people who want to repeal the 8th Amendment, which would legalize abortion?

The Pro Life movement is becoming more and more secular.
They are doing their best to remove Christ from the March for Life.
Young people see it as an opportunity to go party and go to Christian rock concert.   Young people are for sodomist marriage too.  The March for Life has become another sinful anti Catholic world youth day.
It's all about money. If there was end of abortion, there would no longer be a need for pro life groups.   Most Pro life Catholics in our area voted twice for Obama.  Many attended the innauguration then went to March for Life in DC.   Most prolife Catholics in our area will be voting for Hillary. Most pro lifers are hypocrites.  

The Pro Life movement is becoming more and more secular.
They are doing their best to remove Christ from the March for Life.
Young people see it as an opportunity to go party and go to Christian rock concert.   Young people are for sodomist marriage too.  The March for Life has become another sinful anti Catholic world youth day.
It's all about money. If there was end of abortion, there would no longer be a need for pro life groups.   Most Pro life Catholics in our area voted twice for Obama.  Many attended the innauguration then went to March for Life in DC.   Most prolife Catholics in our area will be voting for Hillary. Most pro lifers are hypocrites.  

Indeed. This why it is important for the Trad Catholic to be involved. We tradify them. By being there we offer fraternal correction, instruct the ignorant and offer encouragement. Here in Ireland we regard them as the family.