Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?  (Read 2033 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Last Tradhican

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6293
  • Reputation: +3327/-1937
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2019, 10:56:53 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I don't think anyone else was thinking Garrigou or Banezian were effeminate or gαy based off of the profile picture, but whatever floats your boat I guess.
    Where did I say that Garrigou or Banezian were effeminate or gαy? I've had bad pictures taken of me where I look goofy or not like myself, you just won't find me featuring them on a book as me. 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline forlorn

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2449
    • Reputation: +964/-1098
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #46 on: November 19, 2019, 11:02:17 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Where did I say that Garrigou or Banezian were effeminate or gαy?
    You said the "effeminate" picture of Garrigou "sends a bad message". 


    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6293
    • Reputation: +3327/-1937
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #47 on: November 19, 2019, 11:06:45 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • You said the "effeminate" picture of Garrigou "sends a bad message".
    That is not saying that he IS effeminate, it is just talking about a picture. I can't say that someone is effeminate unless I am around them, seeing them, and talking to them. 
    Acting effeminate does not always equate to one being a sodomite. It is however a red flag to the sodomites of a potential target.  
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Philoxenus

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 4
    • Reputation: +4/-1
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #48 on: November 19, 2019, 11:07:21 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • @Last Tradhican

    (1) Yes, pre-Vatican II philosophers, plural. Perhaps you should try to read an actual neo-scholastic/neo-Thomistic manual of philosophy and/or theology.

    (2) Hugon lived from 1867 to 1929. His manual which I referenced, Cursus philosophiae thomisticae, was written in 1913. In his appraisal of the book (wherein Hugon accepts that the earth is millions of years old, and thinks that theistic evolution is theoretically possible and not contrary to the faith), Pope St. Pius X states:

    "...Indeed among the members of the distinguished Dominican Order are esteemed in our memory many famous men who follow in the footsteps of such a great Doctor—a Doctor who never grows old—and who undertake to shed a brilliant light on Christian dogmas and teachings, and irrefutably to defend them. Your Cursus philosophiae thomisticae, which We recently received from you as a gift offered in filial affection, demands that you, beloved son, be held not least among this number. For the judgments of men who are well versed in philosophy concerning you are well known, men who praise in your volumes the unadulterated teaching of Saint Thomas, and the wealth and coherence of your arguments and the clarity of your style, and who praise you particularly for applying ancient scholastic principles to shed light on new advances in philosophy and to the judicious refutation of errors."

    (3) To ask for Fathers or Doctors who supported an old earth or theistic evolution is nonsensical, since modern scientific advancements were utterly unknown to them.

    (4) I know Banezian in real life, I can assure you he is heterosɛҳuąƖ.

    (5) With regards to Banezian's avatar: "To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled" (Titus 1:15).
    Yes, I use a monophysite for my username and avatar to trigger b00mertrads®

    Offline forlorn

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2449
    • Reputation: +964/-1098
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #49 on: November 19, 2019, 11:08:03 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • That is not saying that he IS effeminate, it is just talking about a picture. I can't say that someone is effeminate unless I am around them, seeing them, and talking to them.
    Acting effeminate does not always equate to one being a sodomite. It is however a red flag to the sodomites of a potential target.  
    What "bad message" was the effeminate picture sending then?


    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6293
    • Reputation: +3327/-1937
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #50 on: November 19, 2019, 11:25:08 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • (1) Yes, pre-Vatican II philosophers, plural. Perhaps you should try to read an actual neo-scholastic/neo-Thomistic manual of philosophy and/or theology.


    (you have only posted two, I can find two pre- Vatican II theologians that teach anything I wanted to believe in the first place. For 2000 years the Doctors, Fathers, and Saints were too stupid to figure this out till one "pre-Vatican II Neo Thomistic philosopher"  in the 20th century. Yeah, right.

    "For there shall be a time when they will not endure sound doctrine but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables." (2Tim 4).



    …. the living character of Tradition, which, as the Second Vatican Council clearly taught, "comes from the apostles and progresses in the Church with the help of the Holy Spirit. There is a growth in insight into the realities and words that are being passed on. This comes about in various ways. It comes through the contemplation and study of believers who ponder these things in their hearts. It comes from the intimate sense of spiritual realities which they experience. (John Paul II, Ecclesia Dei #4)

    My response in red. 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline cassini

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3306
    • Reputation: +2086/-236
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #51 on: November 19, 2019, 11:36:11 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • From Humani Generis

    The Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God.”

    This is the teaching of the Church. If you disagree, go become a Fundamentalist Protestant

    Banezian, a Catholic 'teaching?' The Catholic Church does not forbid reading fairy tales either, and not even going to see the movie Frankenstein.

    But recent posts tell us your whatdoyoucallit is of the Modernist Regionald Garrigou-Legrange. Now your position makes sense, you are a reggie follower.

    I first came across him in that speech by John Paul II when he was addressing the world telling all how Galileo's heliocentrism was a proven Catholic truth and how the Scriptures needed science to change their interpretations from Traditional to modern ones. Here is some of what JPII said and comments:

    Pope John Paul II’s Address

    ‘Thus the new science, with its methods and the freedom of research which they implied, obliged theologians to examine their own criteria of scriptural interpretation. Most of them did not know how to do so. Paradoxically, Galileo, a sincere believer, showed himself to be more perceptive in this regard than the theologians who opposed him. “If Scripture cannot err,” he wrote to Castelli, “certain of its interpreters and commentators can and do so in many ways.” We also know his letter to Christine which is like a short treatise on biblical hermeneutics.’

    So, once again we are told by a pope that Galileo was right and the Church of 1616-1633 was wrong, even referring to his Letter to Christina as ‘like a short treatise on biblical hermeneutics,’ a letter we now know was altered by Galileo to deceive the Holy Office. Again it was the ‘theologians,’ who were unable to interpret the Bible properly, avoiding the fact that it was Pope Paul V, Cardinal Bellarmine and the Inquisition (who were at the time magnificently engaging in face-to-face combat with the Protestant rebellion, with its reform theology, exegesis and hermeneutics) who ruled on it. Yes, these are the ‘theologians’ Pope John Paul II accused of not knowing how to interpret Scripture properly.

    ‘7. The crisis that I have just recalled is not the only factor to have had repercussions on biblical interpretation. Here we are concerned with the second aspect of the problem, its pastoral dimension. By virtue of her own mission, the Church has the duty to be attentive to the pastoral consequences of her teaching. Before all else, let it be clear that this teaching must correspond to the truth.’

    Yes, absolutely, the pastoral dimension needs to be considered. And yes before all else this teaching must correspond to the truth. Interesting to see Pope John Paul II refers to the Church’s ‘teaching.’ We wonder which teaching he meant? It is the ‘pastoral consequences’ of the rejected Church’s teaching that will have to be addressed some day when we get a hierarchy that will acknowledge the truth now known for 100 years, that the geocentrism of the Bible and 1616 was never proven wrong? Alas, what the Pope was endorsing here handed to him by Poupard’s commission was far from true, not so good for the pastoral dimension as can now be seen.

    8. Another crisis similar to the one we are speaking of can be mentioned here. In the last century and at the beginning of our own, advances in the historical sciences made it possible to acquire a new understanding of the Bible and of the biblical world. The rationalist context in which these data were most often presented seemed to make them dangerous to the Christian faith. Certain people, in their concern to defend the faith, thought it necessary to reject firmly-based historical conclusions. That was a hasty and unhappy decision. The work of a pioneer like Fr Lagrange [1877-1964] was able to make the necessary discernment on the basis of dependable criteria. It is necessary to repeat here what I said above. It is a duty for theologians to keep themselves regularly informed of scientific advances in order to examine if such be necessary, whether or not there are reasons for taking them into account in their reflection or for introducing changes in their teaching.’

    Would these ‘advances in their historical sciences’ that supposedly brought about a new understanding of the Bible be the Big Bang and 15 billion years of evolution? And what about Fr Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P., considered by many in the Church as the greatest theologian of his time, a kind of twentieth century St Thomas Aquinas, writing against Modernism? Well, even his theology on creation in his ‘the order of the universe’[1] was that of the Pythagoreans Copernicus, Bruno, Galileo, and Kepler, the same order defined as formal heresy and against the faith in 1616. He writes about Newton’s ‘universal attraction between bodies’ and ‘the two fold motion of the Earth’ as created that way by God in His wisdom. He goes on to describe nature while trying to eliminate the ‘chance’ of a Godless evolution and argue for divine design-evolution and millions of years of it. Oh yes, Fr Garrigou-Legrange did a wonderful job applying Thomistic theology of the Creator trying to make heliocentrism, long-ages and evolutionism Catholic as the Pope acknowledges above. Indeed it was the same Fr Lagrange who it is said to have been another dominant influence on the content of the encyclical Humani Generis.

    [1]http://www.catholictradition.org/Christ/providence2-2.htm 

    Offline Philoxenus

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 4
    • Reputation: +4/-1
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #52 on: November 19, 2019, 12:08:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • My response in red.
    Wow your ignorance is astounding.
    “Neo-scholasticism” or “Neo-Thomism” refer to the revival of Thomism/scholasticism in the late 19th and early 20th centuries at the behest of Leo XIII’s Aeterni Patris (1879). It was the theological-philosophical model officially sanctioned by Rome before Vatican II, especially by St. Pius X contra modernism. The prefix “Neo-” has nothing to do with novelty.
    Yes, I use a monophysite for my username and avatar to trigger b00mertrads®


    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6293
    • Reputation: +3327/-1937
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #53 on: November 19, 2019, 12:30:45 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Wow your ignorance is astounding.
    “Neo-scholasticism” or “Neo-Thomism” refer to the revival of Thomism/scholasticism in the late 19th and early 20th centuries at the behest of Leo XIII’s Aeterni Patris (1879). It was the theological-philosophical model officially sanctioned by Rome before Vatican II, especially by St. Pius X contra modernism. The prefix “Neo-” has nothing to do with novelty.
    Of everything I wrote, that is all you could come up with? Do you think you discovered sliced bread defining for me Neo-Thomism?  Late 19th and 20th century is not tradition, Garrigou-LaGrange is not St. Thomas, he is a one eyed man in the blind Vatican II church. Same as you, you are a product of Vatican II, and you compare yourself to the Novus Ordo and consider that you are a prophet after having read a book.

    "In the country of blind men, the one eyed man is a king".

    Notice that I do not discuss any details about evolution with you, your sources are all neo - new. Likely you are like 20 years old and you think that something from the 19th or 20th century is ancient tradition. Your foundations are built on sand. You need to study the Doctors, Fathers, and Saints, not the Garrigou-Lagranges of the 19th of 20th century.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Philoxenus

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 4
    • Reputation: +4/-1
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #54 on: November 19, 2019, 12:44:04 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Of everything I wrote, that is all you could come up with? Do you think you discovered sliced bread defining for me Neo-Thomism?  Late 19th and 20th century is not tradition, Garrigou-LaGrange is not St. Thomas, he is a one eyed man in the blind Vatican II church. Same as you, you are a product of Vatican II, and you compare yourself to the Novus Ordo and you are a prophet after having read a book.

    "In the country of blind men, the one eyed man is a king".
    Considering that ignorantly making a fuss about the prefix “Neo-” was your only retort to my  five points, which expose both your error and your immature behavior re: Banezian’s avatar, yes. No real argument require no real retort.
    And yes, far more approved theologian-philosophers than just Hugon and Garrigou-Lagrange accepted the possibility of moderate evolution/transformism. I know of no major neo-scholastics after 1910 who thought that moderate transformism was impossible or incompatible with the faith.
    Yes, I use a monophysite for my username and avatar to trigger b00mertrads®

    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6293
    • Reputation: +3327/-1937
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #55 on: November 19, 2019, 12:53:23 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Considering that ignorantly making a fuss about the prefix “Neo-” was your only retort
    Highlighting one word (neo) is not a retort. Here's is what I posted again, I'll make it more obvious for  you:

    (you have only posted two , I can find two pre- Vatican II theologians that teach anything I wanted to believe in the first place. For 2000 years the Doctors, Fathers, and Saints were too stupid to figure this out till one "pre-Vatican II Neo Thomistic philosopher"  in the 20th century. Yeah, right.


    "For there shall be a time when they will not endure sound doctrine but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables." (2Tim 4).



    …. the living character of Tradition, which, as the Second Vatican Council clearly taught, "comes from the apostles and progresses in the Church with the help of the Holy Spirit. There is a growth in insight into the realities and words that are being passed on. This comes about in various ways. It comes through the contemplation and study of believers who ponder these things in their hearts. It comes from the intimate sense of spiritual realities which they experience. (John Paul II, Ecclesia Dei #4)

    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6293
    • Reputation: +3327/-1937
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #56 on: November 19, 2019, 12:55:59 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Notice that I do not discuss any details about evolution with you, your sources are all neo - new. Likely you are like 20 years old and you think that something from the 19th or 20th century is ancient tradition. Your foundations are built on sand. You need to study the Doctors, Fathers, and Saints, not the Garrigou-Lagranges of the 19th of 20th century.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Nadir

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 11675
    • Reputation: +6999/-498
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #57 on: November 19, 2019, 02:29:09 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I don't think anyone else was thinking Garrigou or Banezian were effeminate or gαy ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ based off of the profile picture, but whatever floats your boat I guess.
    There, I fixed it for you. But I agree with what you say.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.