Author Topic: Why didn't Jesus (Read 15778 times)

Trinity · « **Reply #15 on:** July 07, 2010, 10:48:01 AM »

I can give you two instances, matto, where Jesus suggested we not use force.

When James and John wanted to destroy a town because it rejected Jesus, He rebuked them.

I read, a long time ago, a theory that Judas Iscariot was a political animal, and he wanted to force Jesus' hand and make Him fight and expel the Romans from Israel. I think it was Archbishop Sheen, but I'm not sure who proposed that theory. Perhaps he just wanted the silver. If that was the case, though, it didn't work. Jesus lay down His life, instead.

If you want to follow Him, you'd best be prepared to lay down your life, too, and not even consider sacrificing someone else.

Jesus also said we were to let our light shine (good deeds) so all could see and give praise to the Father. We were also told to prove we were the children of the Father who's rain and sun fall on the just and unjust.

You don't get it. Catholicism is about loving and saving souls for God's sake, not killing and forcing them.

Dawn · « **Reply #16 on:** July 07, 2010, 10:53:50 AM »

António de Oliveira Salazar. That is the Salazar Belloc writes of. And, I know that Myrna and Trinity both read their Four Marks a few months ago. It contained a wonderful article on salazar written by Edmund Sheridan.

Matto · « **Reply #17 on:** July 07, 2010, 10:56:28 AM »

Okay, Trinity, I will try this. The Church has been advising governments' for well over a thousand years about what the governments duties were before God and how they should best govern without sin. What you are saying is "forget what the Church has taught for well over a thousand years. The Freemasons who supported the American and French revolutions thought differently. I agree with the freemasons. The Church has always been wrong about matters of faith and morals concerning matters of government, even when it has declared infallibly on these matters. Go Freedom!" This is a common way of thinking as it was the position of the second Vatican council, so you are not alone.

Belloc · « **Reply #18 on:** July 07, 2010, 10:59:52 AM »

started a CATHOLIC STATE thread in this section....the first writer posted is Cardinal Ottiviani, the second is a Catholic author, his brother actually used to attend Mass at my Church and go the TLM off and rolling.....

Jesus rebuked as he wanted to save those towns, despite the lack of faith.....not a good example, and we still have not seen where you are reconcilling the OT and the NT-are there 2 different Jesus? is God different? or does He have different purposes at different times? he did in OT too, sometimes punishing, sometimes rewarding......

Judas was wrong, and?

as far as saying I dont get it-you fail to grasp anything we are saying at all, Jesus is not just "loving and saving souls for God's sake"

why have you noted answered about the OT and NT?
why have you not answered about the prior Catholic states and people I noted?
whay are you accusing me in other threads of "hating" and "bashing" and telling people what to listen too, yet you show the same dictitorial language in your last sentence?

NO ONE is saying forcing anyone, did you not listen-at all-to other threads, were we discussed allowing religioun minorities pragmatic practice of their religions, if it does not harm the common good and indeed, more harm would come by attacking them? do you denounce and accuse St. Louis IX of not being Catholic? or he does not understand Catholic doctrine?
so, then, were we wrongto fight Lepanto? Malta? Vienna? Belgrade? or Rhodes?

it seems, you have fashioned a self made Catholicism and are not listening at all to the rest of us, nor can you articualte a rebut to specific questions.....

so much for that great Cathecism you laud over us young no-nothings! if this is the extent of it, then we are more in trouble and more damning evidence of poor teaching prior to V2 then we thought.......you palce OT Jesus vs NT Jesus w/o discernment..

BTW-is this your MO, disgree, label others with labels and then tell them they do not understand? I have that thread started, but it is a waste of time for those with ears, that will not use them...

door laying on a floor cannot be swung.....

Trinity · « **Reply #19 on:** July 07, 2010, 11:04:21 AM »

The Church has been telling PEOPLE for two thousand years how they should behave. Each one did as he jolly well pleased. The gov't is made up of people. Gov't itself has no soul to save. If you want the gov't to behave properly, then go convert the people who make up the gov't.

If you won't follow Jesus' lead in this, why expect others to. Be an example then hope they will follow you. That's what Jesus did.

Trinity · « **Reply #20 on:** July 07, 2010, 11:11:59 AM »

I'm beginning to suspect, matto, that you are taking your lead from these other two, who put me on hide then read my posts anyway. What hypocrits! Tell me it isn't so, matto. Or are you not the gentle soul I thought you were.

Dawn · « **Reply #21 on:** July 07, 2010, 11:17:08 AM »

Religious Liberty is a heresy. Jesus was present before the beginning of the World. He is the second person of the Blessed Trintiy. He is the God-Head in the Old Testament. He did do all of those things. Listen to Belloc. I am shouting to you and you hear not. I am warning you that you are spewing HERESY.

You are so hateful to Belloc who knows more than I do on this. And, it was not that long ago you complimented me on my knowledge of this subject.

Matto · « **Reply #22 on:** July 07, 2010, 11:20:08 AM »

Quote from: Trinity

I'm beginning to suspect, matto, that you are taking your lead from these other two, who put me on hide then read my posts anyway. What hypocrits! Tell me it isn't so, matto. Or are you not the gentle soul I thought you were.

Don't worry, I am not following anyone's lead. I just have a strong opinion about this issue and happen to disagree with you. I read your posts and I don't have you on hide.

Dawn · « **Reply #23 on:** July 07, 2010, 11:21:52 AM »

Blast it all. I do not have you or anyone on hide.

Religious Liberty has been condemed as a heresy.

Belloc · « **Reply #24 on:** July 07, 2010, 11:23:20 AM »

there is no right to do or practice wrong, but common good sometimes we have to make exceptions for minorities-hence the Jews were allowed in Papal States to practice, w/some restrictions.....but not Waldesians, Prots,etc.....or if a Catholicstate has non-Catholic peoples, may do more harm to remove them then to allow them and curtail their practices....anyone want to allow a Jack Chick fan to hand out tracks in a Catholic country? nor me either!

thanks for kind words Dawn...beginning to see Trinity and maybe others have created their own version of RCC and will not listen at all to others-she dodges majority of questions and does not address much...the last response to me that I read and responded to is obvious and damning other attitude and mindset......

thinking we are wasting our time on this and likely, should just ignore her......we are wasting precious time and energy on people that will not listen and want to exist in some vacuum-odd, her behavior is more akin to NO Catholics then trad ones.......

have that thread up, several props of Pius IX are opposed to Trinity......

Dawn · « **Reply #25 on:** July 07, 2010, 11:30:42 AM »

Yes you are correct. My daughter's are telling me to quit. There is no use. That is why heresy leads to damnation.

Trinity · « **Reply #26 on:** July 07, 2010, 11:30:53 AM »

Thanks, matto. That's a relief. I see you didn't respond to my post about Jesus' lead.

Dawn · « **Reply #27 on:** July 07, 2010, 11:32:09 AM »

Jesus would not lead anyone to Religious liberty as it is a heresy condemed by the Church.

Belloc · « **Reply #28 on:** July 07, 2010, 11:38:19 AM »

Quote from: Dawn

Jesus would not lead anyone to Religious liberty as it is a heresy condemed by the Church.

he would not force, but neither would he allow error to run rampant, nor would he allow it in his nations......people will answer in the next world for their sins, nations can only answer in this world!

the nation exists to support her people and help facilitate the people in their journey to heaven...that is why for instance peace is the highest common good........

Alexandria · « **Reply #29 on:** July 07, 2010, 11:42:37 AM »

This is unbelievable.

What has gotten into you Trinity?