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Author Topic: Why Almost Everyone Has to Go to College  (Read 8408 times)

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Offline Telesphorus

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Why Almost Everyone Has to Go to College
« on: January 10, 2013, 05:31:08 PM »
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  • Why Almost Everyone Has to Go to College
    Posted on December 30, 2012 by thrasymachus33308

    Steve Sailer notes with some puzzlement that the New York Times is upset that young people in Montana and North Dakota are choosing high-paying oil field jobs over college. The NYT is puzzled that the kids don’t want to go to college, and Sailer is puzzled that the NYT is puzzled. That’s a lot of puzzlement. The NYT also notes the story of a Hispanic girl (h/t Return of Kings) who went to an expensive private college and flunked out with nothing to show for it but a huge debt.

    If the New York Times thinks something, it is obviously the correct thing to think. The supposed upside of college is well-known and heavily promoted. The student learns to think deep thoughts and to become a contributing member of society. Less officially, kids get to experiment with things away from the supervision of their parents-sex, drugs and alcohol. What could possibly be wrong with four years of partying followed by getting a cool, high-paying job?

    The practicalities are different. College is expensive, both in that you have to pay to go and can’t earn much income while you are going. The financial benefits are unclear. We all hear that college graduates make more money, but if you factor out post-graduate professionals and science and engineering majors- leaving four-year liberal arts graduates, the bulk of college students- that is much less true. A skilled tradesman- a person with an IQ of maybe 110 to 120, the kind of person who would be considered a candidate for a state college- makes more money and has a better lifestyle than such a person. The kind of things liberal arts majors “study” are mostly insipid and shallow, and frankly boring after a brief introduction. For a great many people, the majority of even those who actually do graduate, it’s likely a waste of time.

    You can imagine a crabby blue-collar father telling a kid that, which is exactly the image educational utilitarianism gets. College is cool. Anybody who tells you it’s to make more money is a philistine! Go anyway, even if you get a worthless anthropology degree and have the same minimum wage job you had before you went!

    I’ve written about the social purpose of college, the real purpose above the acquisition of knowledge. But still, why is this important?

    There are basically two answers, one for whites and one for minorities.

    To be white is to be a suspicious person in America. You will say only blue-collar whites are regarded with suspicion, and that is exactly my point. College is the place where whites can more or less be guaranteed to be socialized- ”brainwashed” is a little harsh- to be reliably cooperative with the system. But aren’t there conservative colleges, and conservative intellectuals? There are, but what these people believe in is not conservatism, but economic liberalism. They want free trade and open immigration, pretty much what rich liberals want anyway. They give the appearance of being an opposition without meaningfully opposing anything. So a college-educated white person can be counted on to be a liberal or a National Review style conservative or libertarian. He certainly won’t believe in anything like ethnic nationalism.

    For a minority, loyalty and cooperation with the system can be assumed. But a non-college-educated minority can only be a passive participant or consumer of system services, never really even a foot soldier. The system needs college-educated minorities to act as commissars or political police in government and large businesses. This type of position may be totally explicit- ”diversity”, or almost totally explicit- human resources, or sub rosa, such as marketing or any place else. But the system needs minorities everywhere, because white people without a minority present may express politically incorrect attitudes and ideas. Return of Kings thinks the idea of this Hispanic girl, whose single mother works at Wal-Mart, would benefit significantly from getting an expensive private college degree is foolish. However, had things been a little different- had she gotten a little more financial aid, been a little smarter, gone to a somewhat easier school- she could have graduated with a bachelors in psychology with a 2.5 GPA and gone straight to a job in diversity or human resources, keeping people in line for the system.

    College is important for everybody because it is important to making the system work- indoctrinating whites and training minorities to work for it as enforcers. As Mindweapon has noted, college is what “corrects” high school students. No college, no respectable suburbanite afraid of losing his suburban respectability.


    Offline Iuvenalis

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    Why Almost Everyone Has to Go to College
    « Reply #1 on: January 11, 2013, 11:56:58 PM »
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  • Whoever that 'thrasymachus33308' is is absolutely brilliant.

    Most well-written, clear, pithy, explanation of 'the system' and virtues of ethnic nationalism I've probably ever read.


    Offline Marlelar

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    Why Almost Everyone Has to Go to College
    « Reply #2 on: January 13, 2013, 10:22:47 AM »
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  • Quote
    Why Almost Everyone Has to Go to College
    Posted on December 30, 2012 by thrasymachus33308


    That is only one person's opinion, I would agree with some of what he says and disagree with some of what he says.  There are so many variables that I do not think it is wise to imply that there is some kind of plan to get young adults to attend college so that they will either be conditioned to become liberals or political police.

    To me this reads like just another essay from the ivory tower.

    Marsha

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Why Almost Everyone Has to Go to College
    « Reply #3 on: January 15, 2013, 08:15:31 AM »
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  • Quote from: Marlelar
    There are so many variables that I do not think it is wise to imply that there is some kind of plan to get young adults to attend college so that they will either be conditioned to become liberals or political police.


    That's very naive.  The whole education system is controlled by people who have that intention.  And they have you denying that that's what it's about.  Which is exactly what they want.

    It's not just minorities enforcing leftism on the general populace.  It's also liberal trads who are causing the liberalization of tradition today.

    What your reaction shows is that you value your "respectable suburbanite" identity very highly - as do most bourgeois trads - so that you will stick your head in the sand as to how bad the current system is.




    Offline Telesphorus

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    Why Almost Everyone Has to Go to College
    « Reply #4 on: January 15, 2013, 08:28:07 AM »
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  • Quote from: Feminism its fallacies and follies
    CHAPTER XII

    THE woman's movement AND THE BABY CROP

    The woman's movement is a movement towards
    progressive national degeneration and ultimate na-
    tional ѕυιcιdє.

    Already the evidence Is conclusive that the effects
    of Feminism upon the inalienable function and im-
    memorial duty of woman — the bearing of children
    — are so appalling as to threaten the perpetuation
    of the best parts of the nation.

    The one duty to society which women alone can
    discharge Is the bearing of children. In this respect
    they can never, except at the cost of national extinc-
    tion, attain identity of powers, and privileges and ex-
    emptions with men.^

    The final test of the woman's movement Is its
    effect upon the most essential, exacting and exalted
    of woman's duties. Ultimately the woman's move-
    ment must succeed or fail according as It strengthens
    or weakens woman's motherhood — her mother-
    hood physical, Intellectual and. spiritual.

    We will examine, then, the available facts that

    ^ We may thrust aside as too bizarre and foolish for serious
    consideration, the experiments aiming at artificial incubation of
    human infants which Dr. G. Stanley Hall says that a few groups
    of women have conducted.

    122



    THE WOMAN'S MOVEMENT 123

    illuminate this phase of the woman's movement in
    America.

    Earliest among the manifestations of this move-
    ment was the demand for higher education for
    women, a demand which was speedily met. To-day
    the college education of women Is so abundantly sup-
    phed that In 1911-12 72,703 women were In col-
    leges In the United States. College training has be-
    come not merely respectable but fashionable. Little
    trace remains of opposition to college training on the
    ground that It Is unwomanly. In twenty years the
    number of women at college has more than trebled.
    This feminine corps of more-or-less Intellectuals has
    Increased from 20,874 In 1889-90 to 72,703 In
    1911-12, a rate of growth double as fast as the
    men students' rate of growth.

    It Is In the circles from which college women come
    that the woman's movement has been most pro-
    nounced, for Feminism as a cult touches the less in-
    tellectual levels of society but lightly. All that Is in-
    volved In the claims of Feminism, the liberation of
    women by making their lives and work approximate
    to the lives and work of men, has been attained more
    by college graduates than by any other set of women.
    Their lives have been directed consciously according
    to the gospel of the woman's movement more than
    the lives of their wage-earning sisters in factories
    and stores. They have enjoyed that free choice be-
    tween domestic and business careers, following upon
    the best training and preparation that society af-



    124 FEMINISM

    forded, that free choice which Feminism hopes to
    offer to every woman.

    When the higher education of women was in dis-
    pute its advocates derided the idea that the mother-
    hood of women could be prejudicially affected in the
    slightest degree by college education. They argued
    that maternal instincts were too deep seated and the
    joys of motherhood were too much desired to be
    modified by any changes of training or environment.

    What are the facts ? When they are quoted they
    are usually challenged. Therefore I have taken
    them exclusively from the statistical publication of
    highest repute and unimpeachable integrity, the ofii-
    ^ cial journal of the American Statistical Association,
    verifying and correcting my statements by correspon-
    dence with the writers of the articles, none of whom
    is arguing against Feminism.

    First, it is now proven that half the college women
    graduates do not marry at all. In an article in the
    Journal of the American Statistical Association
    (June, 19 14) has been brought together in scientific
    fashion all the available marriage statistics of the
    women graduates of colleges in America. The
    writer concludes her examination as follows : *' The
    decade of 1890 to 1899 is undoubtedly the most
    fairly representative (as respects marriage rates).
    On the one hand, it falls within the epoch which ac-
    cepted college education for women and looked upon
    it as thoroughly respectable. On the other hand,
    the graduates in the latest graduating class (class of



    THE WOMAN'S MOVEMENT 125

    1899) are now at least thirty-five years of age.
    The marriage record of the decade is therefore
    fairly complete. The eight colleges graduating
    more than one hundred students each during the
    decade (Earlham, Swarthmore, Wilson, Indiana,
    Vassar, Radcliffe, Wellesley and Bryn Mawr) show
    fairly uniform marriage rates. The lowest is Bryn
    Mawr, 41.8 per cent. (294 graduates), and the
    highest Swarthmore, 58.7 per cent. (148 graduates).
    It is probable that the marriage rate for this decade
    is fairly representative of the tendency in the mod-
    ern women's college world." And, as shown by the
    figures for this decade : " The proportion of
    women college graduates who marry is approxi-

    ^ mately one-half." Possibly a few members of the
    latest classes included in the calculation might marry
    after the age of thirty-five or thirty-six; but so few
    as not to affect the argument.

    This conclusion is accepted by women leaders
    themselves as indisputable. Miss M. Carey
    Thomas, president of Bryn Mawr College, says
    " that 50 per cent, of women college graduates
    marry and 40 per cent, bear and rear children," ^
    a gracious concession on their part to nature and to
    society which should, in her opinion, save them from
    hostile criticism. To feminists it appears to be a
    matter of astonishment, a claim on man's gratitude,

    . that one college woman out of two still consents to
    marry and two out of five actually bear a child.

    ^Educational Re'vieiv, January, 1908.



    126 FEMINISM

    To judge whether this marriage rate is less than
    normal and may be a result of the woman's move-
    ment, we must know whether other women In the
    United States of the same colour and race and na-
    tivity marry more or less. Eighty-five per cent, of
    women college graduates are of native white paren-
    tage ; so plainly it would be unfair to compare their
    marriage record with the record of coloured women
    or of recent Immigrants. So we will make a com-
    parison with women of their own colour and race.
    We do not know, by direct count, the proportion
    of noncolleglate, white native women, who, given
    plenty of time, ultimately marry; but only the pro-
    portion of them who, when a census is taken, are
    married women. In 1 910 of all the women of na-
    tive white parentage In the United States who were
    15 years of age or over, 69.8 per cent, were mar-
    ried; and of all college graduates of all ages in 19 12,
    42.2 per cent, were married. But 15 per cent, of
    college graduates are of foreign or mixed parentage;
    and, paradoxically enough, the marriage rate among
    women of foreign or mixed parentage Is lower than
    among women of native white parentage. Making
    allowance for this Infusion among college graduates
    of a strain of mixed parentage It is shown ^ that out
    of every 100 women of the same colour and nativity,
    67 noncollegians, 15 years of age and over, are mar-
    ried and 42.2 collegians. Collegians are all over

    8 See article " Education and Fecundity," by Nearing, Journal of
    American Statistical Association, June, 1914.



    THE WOMAN'S MOVEMENT 127

    22. The percentage of noncollegians over 22 who
    are married would be considerably higher than 67;
    but, as we do not know the exact figure, we will ac-
    cept the handicap upon the argument involved in tak-
    ing the proportion for those 15 years of age and
    over. Now, 67 is 59 per cent, above 42. So that
    the chance that a noncollege white American girl will
    marry is at least 59 per cent, higher than the chance
    that a college girl will marry. But we know by
    actual count that of every 100 collegians 50
    marry; therefore, of every 100 noncollegians 80
    will marry.

    Thus far, then, it appears that the woman's move-
    ment and college education and all that it brings in
    its train must share the responsibility for the spin-
    ster state of 30 out of every 100 graduates.

    Next consider the number of children born to that
    half of the graduates who, despite their college train-
    ing and subsequent economic careers, do marry.

    First, we notice the disturbing fact that a far
    larger proportion of the marriages of college gradu-
    ates are sterile than among the general population.
    The proportion of infertile marriages among mar-
    ried graduates of the period of 18 70-1 901, the
    count being made over ten years after the graduation
    of the youngest class considered, varies from 20.1
    per cent, among the graduates of Rockford to 32.9
    per cent, among the graduates of Smith;* whereas

    *See Nearing on "Education and Fecundity": American Statisti-
    cal Association Quarterly, June, 1914.



    128 FEMINISM

    in the native white population outside colleges
    among women under 45 years of age married 10 to
    20 years, a group comparable in all respects, it is
    13 per cent, as is proven by Dr. Joseph A. Hill.^
    So that childless marriages are one and a half to two
    and a half times a^ common among those college
    women who do marry as among married white
    American women in general. Whether that sad
    condition is due to causes physiological or psychologi-
    cal will be considered later.

    Next, how many children do those college women
    bear, who do have any at all? We know that the
    376 women who graduated from Vassar between
    1880 and 1889 had, by 19 12, given birth to 348
    children and that the 518 women who graduated dur-
    ing the same period from Wellesley had given birth
    to 427 children, which means less than i child per
    graduate in each case, or for every 100 graduates
    who married, 167.3 ^^^ 166.1 children, respectively.
    Since the youngest of these women would be over 45
    years old when the count was made, it is unlikely
    that their families will increase. Plainly they have
    not been recklessly prolific. They have scorned the
    injunction to increase and multiply.

    " Where only those graduates who have been
    graduated a sufficient number of years to allow for
    marriage and all probable family increase are con-
    sidered," the number of children per family is less
    than two. That Is to say, that women graduates,

    5 See American Statistical Association Quarterly, December, 1913.



    THE WOMAN'S MOVEMENT 129

    married and unmarried being reckoned, bear on an
     average less than one child — not enough to replace
    themselves and the husbands of the married half,
    even if every child survived. The spinster half be-
    comes extinct, unrepresented by any child of their
    married classmates. Fruitless twigs on the tree of
    life they die. Remember that 3.7 children to each
     wife are. necessary to maintain a stationary popula-
    tion.^

    Again, to judge whether the woman's movement
    has had any influence in producing this race-suicidal
    result we must consider the fruitlessness of noncol-
    legians in the same sections of the population. Dr.
    Joseph A. Hill has ascertained that the birth rate
    of native-born white American women under 45
    years of age, married 10 to 20 years, is 2.7 per
    ^ family, the families of the youngest being incom-
    plete.'^ Compare this figure with the number 1.67
    for the completed families of Vassar and Wellesley
    graduates, though to do so is to compare completed
    collegians' families with incomplete noncollegians'
    famihes, and therefore to weight the figures against
    the argument. We find that of every 100 graduates
    about 50 will marry and they will produce about 84
    children, and of every corresponding 100 noncol-
    legians about 80 will marry and they will produce

    *" Education and Race ѕυιcιdє," by Sprague in Journal of
    Heredity, April, 19 15.

    ^ See " Comparative Fecundity of Women of Native and Foreign
    Parentage in the United States," in American Statistical Associa-
    tion Quarterly, December, 1900.



    I30 FEMINISM

    more than 216 children — roughly two and a half
    times the baby crop.^

    That is the central and stupefying fact. Women
    college graduates in America hear only two-fifths as
    many children in proportion to their number as other
    native white American women.



    http://archive.org/stream/feminismitsfalla00martrich/feminismitsfalla00martrich_djvu.txt


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Why Almost Everyone Has to Go to College
    « Reply #5 on: January 15, 2013, 08:36:42 AM »
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  • Does anyone here believe the teenage women who get their pictures posted in The Remnant when they're given a chance to have articles published in their name (for the reason that they are young women) are going to have the kind of families their mothers and grandmothers did?

    The reality is that many of these trad parents prefer the flattery that the world disingenuously heaps on their daughters - rather than Catholic family life for their daughters.  In their hearts they are feminists and liberals.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Why Almost Everyone Has to Go to College
    « Reply #6 on: January 15, 2013, 08:43:24 AM »
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  • Quote from: comments on an MRA blog
    "A friend of mine and his wife are both very religious/conservative people. They have three daughters who are fairly strident liberal/feminists. How? They all came back from college transformed."

    to which the answer was given

    "Which once again shows how utterly clueless religious conservatives are in transmitting their faith and values to the next generation.

    I’m in my early 30s and grew up in a conservative Catholic parish where a half-dozen children to a family was common (but not common for the wider culture in the 80s).

    I remember back in the day, my friends’ and acquaintances’ parents were crowing about how they were going forth and multiplying while the secularists aborted and contracepted themselves out of existence.

    Yet this was a upper-middle class community where all the privileged daughters were not at all prepared for their own marriage and family. They were sent to college on daddy’s dime or got lucrative scholarships with family connections.

    I’ve been following most of my childhood friends/classmates on Facebook and not a single one is following the mold of a traditional religious family with large numbers of children.


    A huge percentage of both the boys and girls I grew up with are still single and childless in their 30s. The ones that do have children typically have 1 or two within a dual-career, dual-income household."

    Offline ggreg

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    Why Almost Everyone Has to Go to College
    « Reply #7 on: January 18, 2013, 06:01:26 PM »
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  • You are single and childless and well into your 30s yourself Tele and yet you're not a liberal.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Why Almost Everyone Has to Go to College
    « Reply #8 on: January 18, 2013, 08:50:05 PM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    You are single and childless and well into your 30s yourself Tele and yet you're not a liberal.


    I don't doubt that college (and more importantly believing that preparing for college was of pre-eminent importance) had a very negative affect on me.  It also seemed to me that in college and high school there were almost no decent women interested in courtship.  There were women interested in dating, but not in marriage.

    The relative decline of male wages isn't about being liberal.  However, the attitudes of young women (and their parents) towards marriage and career (which drives the tendency towards delayed marriage) is decisive in its decline, and it is determined by the liberal attitudes that prevail in bourgeois communities for which coeducational college education is considered a normal rite of passage.


    Offline Graham

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    Why Almost Everyone Has to Go to College
    « Reply #9 on: January 19, 2013, 09:53:48 AM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    You are single and childless and well into your 30s yourself Tele and yet you're not a liberal.


    And you're a liberal, yet you have a family.

    It's almost like there's a difference between individual situations and general trends.

    But Greg has no illusions that he's making an argument. Like a woman, he's trying to rub salt in a wound.                

    Offline Marlelar

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    Why Almost Everyone Has to Go to College
    « Reply #10 on: January 19, 2013, 11:29:29 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote from: Marlelar
    There are so many variables that I do not think it is wise to imply that there is some kind of plan to get young adults to attend college so that they will either be conditioned to become liberals or political police.


    That's very naive.  The whole education system is controlled by people who have that intention.  And they have you denying that that's what it's about.  Which is exactly what they want.

    It's not just minorities enforcing leftism on the general populace.  It's also liberal trads who are causing the liberalization of tradition today.

    What your reaction shows is that you value your "respectable suburbanite" identity very highly - as do most bourgeois trads - so that you will stick your head in the sand as to how bad the current system is.


    Ad hominem attacks speak volumes about the author, particularly when written about a complete stranger.

    Marsha


    Offline Frances

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    Why Almost Everyone Has to Go to College
    « Reply #11 on: February 20, 2013, 06:45:05 PM »
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  • College?  For me a necessary evil.  Without that magic diploma, I'd be on welfare or couch surfing.  Don't bother unless you already have a goal in mind for which the degree is necessary.  Whatever you do, WORK your through.  If it works out, you've bought yourself a little time for discernment and R&R.  If it doesn't go as planned, at least you're not saddled with debt for the next 30 years of your life.
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  

    Offline SJB

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    Why Almost Everyone Has to Go to College
    « Reply #12 on: February 21, 2013, 07:59:26 AM »
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  • Quote from: Frances
    College?  For me a necessary evil.  Without that magic diploma, I'd be on welfare or couch surfing.  Don't bother unless you already have a goal in mind for which the degree is necessary.  Whatever you do, WORK your through.  If it works out, you've bought yourself a little time for discernment and R&R.  If it doesn't go as planned, at least you're not saddled with debt for the next 30 years of your life.


    In some fields, one actually needs some form of higher education just to be able to function. While I agree that most if not all universities are and have been filled with Marxists and liberals since at least the 1950's, most indoctrination occurs in grades K-8, continues into high school, then colleges.

    Think about it a little, and you can probably imagine which timeframe does the most damage as far as indoctrination goes.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Why Almost Everyone Has to Go to College
    « Reply #13 on: February 21, 2013, 08:15:29 AM »
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  • Quote from: SJB
    In some fields, one actually needs some form of higher education just to be able to function.


    No kidding.  What does that have to do with the fact that college is being treated now as virtually a universal requirement?

    Quote
    While I agree that most if not all universities are and have been filled with Marxists and liberals since at least the 1950's, most indoctrination occurs in grades K-8, continues into high school, then colleges.


    Yes, children are indoctrinated, but there is an intellectual limit to what teachers can do.  An elementary school teacher in particular isn't going to be taken as an authority in substitute for Mom and Dad.  Don't get me wrong, no one here is holding up public schools as being acceptable.

    Quote
    Think about it a little, and you can probably imagine which timeframe does the most damage as far as indoctrination goes.


    Why was it in the 1960s that there was a university based agitation of youth?

    Because that was when college had started to become a normal track for young people.

    Professors are going to say things that high school and elementary school teachers would not have said.  

    The OP is correct that people who haven't been to college will not buy into the liberal narrative of society the way that those who have been do buy into it.

    Offline AlligatorDicax

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    Why Almost Everyone Has to Go to College
    « Reply #14 on: February 21, 2013, 12:39:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus (Feb 21, 2013, 9:15 am)
    Yes, children are indoctrinated, but there is an intellectual limit to what teachers can do.  An elementary school teacher in particular isn't going to be taken as an authority in substitute for Mom and Dad.

    That assumes Mom and Dad are both present and actively participating in rearing their children.  I suspect that with the spread of divorce and DINKs, dual-parent households are now in the minority in the U.S.A.  How much time does a single parent have at home nowadays to develop the intellect of the children?  Especially if routinely working more than 1 job to make ends meet?

    Hey, no problem: Make teachers responsible for correcting all the parents' short-comings during school hours.  Then afterwards, let Barney and Big Bird baby-sit the littler kids, and 'E!' and ESPN baby-sit the bigger kids.  That'll be good enough, right?

    Judging from repeated encounters with modern adolescent (and young-adult) cluelessness about traditional subjects like arithmetic and history, I doubt that those courses are taught any more.

    So what subjects are these traditional ones being replaced with, during the elementary-school & secondary-school 'formative years' of modern students?  The secular religion of "Global Climate Change" (complete with secular 'original sins')?  Or the social experimentation implicit in "Diversity" indoctrination?  "English as a Second Language"?  Foreign languages, as decreed by marble-column educrats, to force U.S.-native citizens to pander to the native languages of an unremedied flood of Third-World immigrants (many illiterate in their own native languages)?  But perhaps I digresseth too much.

    I've read that college faculty complain that waaay too many incoming college students need to take remedial courses--in college--to provide the missing high-school knowledge required as the basis for genuine college courses.  Wasn't there once a time when one could point to such students, and say honestly without malice: "See! They are exactly the ones who have no business going to college"?  If those remedial courses provide credits that count toward graduation, they're diluting the value of a college degree.