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Author Topic: What to you see as the coming "great deception"  (Read 8642 times)

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Offline Neil Obstat

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Re: What to you see as the coming "great deception"
« Reply #75 on: September 11, 2017, 10:39:52 PM »
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  • The great deception!
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: What to you see as the coming "great deception"
    « Reply #76 on: September 11, 2017, 10:45:59 PM »
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  • Do you want to see some pictures of the Flat Earth Horizon?
    .
    I've already seen your fake CGI pictures and paintings.
    .
    Answer my question. Explain how someone in Australia can see a full moon in the flat-earth diagram.
    .

    .
    This is your golden calf image of worship which you adore. Explain it.
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: What to you see as the coming "great deception"
    « Reply #77 on: September 12, 2017, 03:07:09 PM »
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  • .
    I've already seen your fake CGI pictures and paintings.
    .
    Answer my question. Explain how someone in Australia can see a full moon in the flat-earth diagram.
    .

    .
    This is your golden calf image of worship which you adore. Explain it.
    .
    Poor Neil "Have You Measured the Angle of the Quarter Moon Yet" Obstat cannot grasp the flat earth model.

    Offline Cera

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    Re: What to you see as the coming "great deception"
    « Reply #78 on: September 12, 2017, 03:32:53 PM »
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  • .
    The Church has never taught "flat-earth" and it never will because it's obviously a fairy tale.
    .
    http://flatearthtrads.forumga.net/t102-the-fathers-and-tradition
    Read what the Church Fathers said in support of Flat Earth theory and in rejection of Globe Theory before you find yourself in the awkward position of putting yourself above the Church Fathers.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Cera

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    Re: What to you see as the coming "great deception"
    « Reply #79 on: September 12, 2017, 03:37:28 PM »
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  • ..
    Where does the Bible warn us about that?
    .
    Matthew 24:24
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. [25] Behold I have told it to you, beforehand.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline Cera

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    Re: What to you see as the coming "great deception"
    « Reply #80 on: September 12, 2017, 03:40:05 PM »
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  • That kind of sounds like the Great Chastisement.
    It's not the great chastisement, because we know that the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary will follow the chastisement. So some will survive and will be part of the restoration of the Church.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: What to you see as the coming "great deception"
    « Reply #81 on: September 12, 2017, 03:48:01 PM »
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  • Matthew 24:24
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. [25] Behold I have told it to you, beforehand.
    That scripture passage reminds me of the people trying unsuccessfully to turn a Line into a Sphere; It will NEVER work and yet they keep trying. For our sake, I so admire their misguided persistence a little bit.
    "I Think it is Time Cathinfo Has a Public Profession of Belief." "Thank you for publicly affirming the necessity of believing, without innovations, all Infallibly Defined Dogmas of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church."

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: What to you see as the coming "great deception"
    « Reply #82 on: September 12, 2017, 03:58:32 PM »
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  • "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: What to you see as the coming "great deception"
    « Reply #83 on: September 12, 2017, 03:59:10 PM »
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  • "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Meg

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    Re: What to you see as the coming "great deception"
    « Reply #84 on: September 12, 2017, 04:28:05 PM »
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  • Perhaps you missed this quote from St. Basil the Great regarding those who argue about the shape of the Earth and try to use Scripture to prove it.

    St. Basil, Hexaemeron, Homily 9: "Those who have written about the nature of the universe have discussed at length the shape of the earth. If it be spherical or cylindrical, if it resemble a disc and is equally rounded in all parts, or if it has the forth of a winnowing basket and is hollow in the middle; all these conjectures have been suggested by cosmographers, each one upsetting that of his predecessor. It will not lead me to give less importance to the creation of the universe, that the servant of God, Moses, is silent as to shapes; he has not said that the earth is a hundred and eighty thousand furlongs in circuмference; he has not measured into what extent of air its shadow projects itself whilst the sun revolves around it, nor stated how this shadow, casting itself upon the moon, produces eclipses. He has passed over in silence, as useless, all that is unimportant for us. Shall I then prefer foolish wisdom to the oracles of the Holy Spirit? Shall I not rather exalt Him who, not wishing to fill our minds with these vanities, has regulated all the economy of Scripture in view of the edification and the making perfect of our souls? It is this which those seem to me not to have understood, who, giving themselves up to the distorted meaning of allegory, have undertaken to give a majesty of their own invention to Scripture. It is to believe themselves wiser than the Holy Spirit, and to bring forth their own ideas under a pretext of exegesis. Let us hear Scripture as it has been written."

    Quote from St. Basil:

    "He [Moses] has passed over in silence, as useless, all that is unimportant for us."

    I understand what St. Basil is saying. It seems that his view was that we can give too much importance as to the shape of the earth, or eclipses, etc.

    There was a time when debating the shape of the earth would not have been needed, but it is needed now, IMO, given what has become of science. I do think that spending a lot of time speculating about the shape of the earth can take away from other things that we should be doing instead. However, St. Basil does not say what he believes the shape of the earth to be. He does say this in chapter four of the Hexaemeron:

    ...."Heaven, poised like a dome, to quote the words of the prophet; [1523] earth, this immense mass which rests upon itself; the air around it, of a soft and fluid nature, a true and continual nourishment for all who breathe it...[...]."

    St. Basil does refer to Heaven as "poised like a dome," and that..."this immense earth which rests upon itself," which to me seems like it refers to a flat plane, though that may be debatable.

    Link to chapter four here:
    https://www.elpenor.org/basil/hexaemeron.asp?pg=32
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: What to you see as the coming "great deception"
    « Reply #85 on: September 12, 2017, 04:43:13 PM »
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  • That scripture passage reminds me of the people trying unsuccessfully to turn a Line into a Sphere; It will NEVER work and yet they keep trying.  :jester: They continue to prove us right. :applause:
    "I Think it is Time Cathinfo Has a Public Profession of Belief." "Thank you for publicly affirming the necessity of believing, without innovations, all Infallibly Defined Dogmas of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church."


    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: What to you see as the coming "great deception"
    « Reply #86 on: September 12, 2017, 05:03:25 PM »
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  • One interesting point in this is that he explicitly says that Moses was silent as to the shape of the Earth, the Earth being the subject about which he is writing. He passed over the shapes because it is useless for us and our salvation. As St. Basil says it is useless for our edification the “making perfect of our souls”. I do not deny that some or most of the Fathers believed the Earth was flat but this homily is very telling as to the Spiritual and Salvific import they attached to this knowledge.

    Moreover, he is saying that those who try to prove the Earth’s shape using Scripture are doing so not to promote or further Scripture and it’s true exegesis but to further their own interpretation of it.

    This should be enough for those who wish to prove from Scripture the flat earth and those who wish to promote it as if it’s Church Dogma.

    As to the reference you gave in Homily 4 about “Heaven, poised like a dome” there is a footnote if you’ll notice, labeled 1523. This is a reference to Isaiah 40:22, which calls the Earth a Dome. This may seem appealing to those who think the Earth is spherical but the same admonition from St. Basil applies to them. It applies to anybody appealing to Scripture to prove the shape of the Earth. (BTW, I know the argument which says this should be translated to ‘circle’ but the DR says it’s a dome)

    I just wanted to ask you Meg, have you looked at the posts by some of your fellow flat-earthers lately? You denied that anyone says that FE is Dogma but there is a lot of talk about it being at least something that has to be believed and one even said it's in Scripture and they said Scripture is Dogma.
    If you truly thought the fact that the shape of the earth is flat is really that unimportant, you wouldn't continue post in Flat Earth threads. I think you might be in the process of converting to our side. :jumping2:  :applause:
    "I Think it is Time Cathinfo Has a Public Profession of Belief." "Thank you for publicly affirming the necessity of believing, without innovations, all Infallibly Defined Dogmas of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church."

    Offline Meg

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    Re: What to you see as the coming "great deception"
    « Reply #87 on: September 12, 2017, 05:07:21 PM »
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  • One interesting point in this is that he explicitly says that Moses was silent as to the shape of the Earth, the Earth being the subject about which he is writing. He passed over the shapes because it is useless for us and our salvation. As St. Basil says it is useless for our edification the “making perfect of our souls”. I do not deny that some or most of the Fathers believed the Earth was flat but this homily is very telling as to the Spiritual and Salvific import they attached to this knowledge.

    Moreover, he is saying that those who try to prove the Earth’s shape using Scripture are doing so not to promote or further Scripture and it’s true exegesis but to further their own interpretation of it.

    This should be enough for those who wish to prove from Scripture the flat earth and those who wish to promote it as if it’s Church Dogma.

    As to the reference you gave in Homily 4 about “Heaven, poised like a dome” there is a footnote if you’ll notice, labeled 1523. This is a reference to Isaiah 40:22, which calls the Earth a Dome. This may seem appealing to those who think the Earth is spherical but the same admonition from St. Basil applies to them. It applies to anybody appealing to Scripture to prove the shape of the Earth. (BTW, I know the argument which says this should be translated to ‘circle’ but the DR says it’s a dome)

    I just wanted to ask you Meg, have you looked at the posts by some of your fellow flat-earthers lately? You denied that anyone says that FE is Dogma but there is a lot of talk about it being at least something that has to be believed and one even said it's in Scripture and they said Scripture is Dogma.

    I mentioned in my post that there was a time when debating the shape of the earth was not so important. But it is important now, given the grave problems with science. It's a simple as that, really.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: What to you see as the coming "great deception"
    « Reply #88 on: September 12, 2017, 05:12:58 PM »
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  • Did you read the quote from St. Basil? I seen all the arguments from both sides and I couldn't care less either way. It's not important for our salvation. There is no Catholic side to this. Stop promoting as if FE is the Catholic Position.
    You do care about the fact that the shape of the earth is flat; you keep posting in Flat Earth threads.
    "I Think it is Time Cathinfo Has a Public Profession of Belief." "Thank you for publicly affirming the necessity of believing, without innovations, all Infallibly Defined Dogmas of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church."

    Offline Meg

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    Re: What to you see as the coming "great deception"
    « Reply #89 on: September 12, 2017, 05:19:27 PM »
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  • It seems it was important to people of Science back in St. Basil's day. Regardless of the grave problems of Science, this topic does not need to be debated as if it has Religious significance. After all, as long as one has God as the base and power behind all, what does it matter? God could have made the Earth flat just as He could have made it round. What's the difference as long as one believes He made it and sent His Son to Redeem mankind on it.

    So long as one has God as the Creator, what makes the shape so important?

    The reason it matters is this: modern science has been a great factor in the increase of the Paganization of our society. Do you disagree?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29