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Author Topic: What to make of this nαzι reference?  (Read 3803 times)

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Offline poche

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Re: What to make of this nαzι reference?
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2018, 10:33:37 PM »
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  • So Bella Dodd was a liar? The Communist clergy at Vatican II just appeared out of thin air?

    There were no pedophiles in the Church before or during the war?


    Yes or no. Are you claiming infallibility on Mit Brennender Sorge?
    I am not making any claims on Bella Dodd.
    I am claiming that the National Socialists and the Communists would use the accusation (false accusation achieved by coercion) of pedophilia in order to co-opt the Catholic Church.
    I am stating that we as Catholics should give credence to what Pope Pius XI, the contemporary pope of those times, had to say about National Socialism and its abuses of the Catholic Church.  


    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: What to make of this nαzι reference?
    « Reply #31 on: March 01, 2018, 02:16:19 PM »
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  • I am not making any claims on Bella Dodd.
    I am claiming that the National Socialists and the Communists would use the accusation (false accusation achieved by coercion) of pedophilia in order to co-opt the Catholic Church.
    I am stating that we as Catholics should give credence to what Pope Pius XI, the contemporary pope of those times, had to say about National Socialism and its abuses of the Catholic Church.  
    Would or not, pedos have been demonstrated to have existed as the crisis in the Church proves these last 50+ years. The difference is that the NSDAP was willing to do something about it as opposed to so called Catholics. So you lose that argument.
    So I am assuming that since you won't answer the infallibility question, you are denying that it applies. But you are saying that Pius XI's words for those times should be given credence. Assuming that those words were in fact his, and I have shown that there is doubt based on Cardinal Siri's own words, that does not mean that it still holds weight now that we have the benefit of historical hindsight that nullifies whatever it is that he may have said. Thus, it means nothing now that we know what really happened in before during and after WWII. 
     
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle


    Offline poche

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    Re: What to make of this nαzι reference?
    « Reply #32 on: March 02, 2018, 05:09:55 AM »
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  • Would or not, pedos have been demonstrated to have existed as the crisis in the Church proves these last 50+ years. The difference is that the NSDAP was willing to do something about it as opposed to so called Catholics. So you lose that argument.
    So I am assuming that since you won't answer the infallibility question, you are denying that it applies. But you are saying that Pius XI's words for those times should be given credence. Assuming that those words were in fact his, and I have shown that there is doubt based on Cardinal Siri's own words, that does not mean that it still holds weight now that we have the benefit of historical hindsight that nullifies whatever it is that he may have said. Thus, it means nothing now that we know what really happened in before during and after WWII.
     
    It is interesting how you pull up obscure quotes from various popes and refer to them as infallible and yet when the Pope of the time says something that you don't like then you are all about rejecting it because it is not "infallible." 

    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: What to make of this nαzι reference?
    « Reply #33 on: March 02, 2018, 08:39:55 AM »
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  • It is interesting how you pull up obscure quotes from various popes and refer to them as infallible and yet when the Pope of the time says something that you don't like then you are all about rejecting it because it is not "infallible."
    Nice "pivot".
    I have never quoted popes to prove infallibility. My entire time on this site has never been devoted to any such discussion. I have never revealed my mind as to what I believe in regards to the crisis in the Catholic Church. 
    Since you are accusing me of quoting popes for infallibility, demonstrate it. All you have to do is a search. I have nothing to hide and you will shown to be mistaken for your assertion about me. 
    But keep on dodging the issue, Poche. It's a revealing case study of obstinance. 
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle

    Offline poche

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    Re: What to make of this nαzι reference?
    « Reply #34 on: March 03, 2018, 11:02:22 PM »
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  • Nice "pivot".
    I have never quoted popes to prove infallibility. My entire time on this site has never been devoted to any such discussion. I have never revealed my mind as to what I believe in regards to the crisis in the Catholic Church.
    Since you are accusing me of quoting popes for infallibility, demonstrate it. All you have to do is a search. I have nothing to hide and you will shown to be mistaken for your assertion about me.
    But keep on dodging the issue, Poche. It's a revealing case study of obstinance.
    No, it is a case study of what the teaching authority of the Catholic Church had to say at the time.


    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: What to make of this nαzι reference?
    « Reply #35 on: March 04, 2018, 09:57:44 AM »
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  • No, it is a case study of what the teaching authority of the Catholic Church had to say at the time.
    And in that case, it was flat out wrong, as the unfolding of subsequent history and information has come to light. 
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle

    Offline poche

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    Re: What to make of this nαzι reference?
    « Reply #36 on: March 05, 2018, 02:09:03 AM »
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  • And in that case, it was flat out wrong, as the unfolding of subsequent history and information has come to light.
    No, it was right because teh magisterial teaching of the Catholic Church applies to everyone.

    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: What to make of this nαzι reference?
    « Reply #37 on: March 05, 2018, 11:57:10 AM »
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  • No, it was right because teh magisterial teaching of the Catholic Church applies to everyone.
    So it was infallible?
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle