Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => Topic started by: Merry on February 12, 2018, 09:54:34 PM
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I am reading a book about converts. And currently the story concerns Eva-Maria Jung. She is Protestant and German, and is toying with the Catholic Church. Her father disapproves. At one point the narrative reads:
"Angry and despairing of being able to control my actions in a large city like Berlin, my father decided to send me to a State boarding college in Westphalia. The school was thoroughly nαzι in its teaching and its training methods. The day started with a sort of nαzι service in the courtyard. In all kinds of weather we gathered in the open air before dawn. The flag was hoisted; we sang Deutschland uber Alles and Die Fahne hoch. A passage from Mein Kampf was read while we shivered in the cold....
" The end came, however, in an almost miraculous manner. Twice a week we underwent what was styled 'religious instruction.' We were taught that the great enemies of German were the Communists, the Jєωs, and the Catholic Church. Every time I tried to contradict, I was silenced immediately. But one day toward the end of the school year, a strange thing happened. After a moment of reflection, the instructor asked me to speak about the nature of Catholicism...".
Of course by the end of the chapter about her, she had joined the Church. But my question is, unless she is lying, she is saying that this apparently official nαzι school was anti-Catholic. How can that be, when there are proponents of the nαzιs who say they are misunderstood and misrepresented and actually supported the Church, etc.? Are there explanations for this disconnect?
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I am reading a book about converts. And currently the story concerns Eva-Maria Jung. She is Protestant and German, and is toying with the Catholic Church. Her father disapproves. At one point the narrative reads:
"Angry and despairing of being able to control my actions in a large city like Berlin, my father decided to send me to a State boarding college in Westphalia. The school was thoroughly nαzι in its teaching and its training methods. The day started with a sort of nαzι service in the courtyard. In all kinds of weather we gathered in the open air before dawn. The flag was hoisted; we sang Deutschland uber Alles and Die Fahne hoch. A passage from Mein Kampf was read while we shivered in the cold....
" The end came, however, in an almost miraculous manner. Twice a week we underwent what was styled 'religious instruction.' We were taught that the great enemies of German were the Communists, the Jєωs, and the Catholic Church. Every time I tried to contradict, I was silenced immediately. But one day toward the end of the school year, a strange thing happened. After a moment of reflection, the instructor asked me to speak about the nature of Catholicism...".
Of course by the end of the chapter about her, she had joined the Church. But my question is, unless she is lying, she is saying that this apparently official nαzι school was anti-Catholic. How can that be, when there are proponents of the nαzιs who say they are misunderstood and misrepresented and actually supported the Church, etc.? Are there explanations for this disconnect?
I find your post wanting of detail to be able to provide a fair assessment... but, I can say this, Germany consisted of a greater population of protestants than Catholics, primarily Lutheran. So I'd have to ask, how can one be certain that this school was nothing but a typical protestant institution? Weren't all protestant institutions anti-catholic?
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She does not get into who her father was and what he was doing - was he a nαzι. But as she says it was a nαzι school, I have to take her at her word. Sorry there is no more to go by.
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I would imagine that she was exaggerating and if she was not, then it was a lone instance of anti-Catholicism, and not the norm.
If it was a real 'nαzι' school it could have been run by the more pagan wing of the party. The national socialists had multiple different wings in the party, take Alfred Rosenberg, who was extremely anti catholic and 2 of his books on the Index; but he was not in the mainstream of the party. Hitler said you could not be pagan and national socialist in a speech, he had plans of cleansing the party of the pagan element after the war. It is very possible that the school taught anti catholic things, and she exaggerated it a bit too.
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I am reading a book about converts. And currently the story concerns Eva-Maria Jung. She is Protestant and German, and is toying with the Catholic Church. Her father disapproves. At one point the narrative reads:
"Angry and despairing of being able to control my actions in a large city like Berlin, my father decided to send me to a State boarding college in Westphalia. The school was thoroughly nαzι in its teaching and its training methods. The day started with a sort of nαzι service in the courtyard. In all kinds of weather we gathered in the open air before dawn. The flag was hoisted; we sang Deutschland uber Alles and Die Fahne hoch. A passage from Mein Kampf was read while we shivered in the cold....
" The end came, however, in an almost miraculous manner. Twice a week we underwent what was styled 'religious instruction.' We were taught that the great enemies of German were the Communists, the Jєωs, and the Catholic Church. Every time I tried to contradict, I was silenced immediately. But one day toward the end of the school year, a strange thing happened. After a moment of reflection, the instructor asked me to speak about the nature of Catholicism...".
Of course by the end of the chapter about her, she had joined the Church. But my question is, unless she is lying, she is saying that this apparently official nαzι school was anti-Catholic. How can that be, when there are proponents of the nαzιs who say they are misunderstood and misrepresented and actually supported the Church, etc.? Are there explanations for this disconnect?
There is no misunderstanding here. The nαzιs were enemies of the Catholic Church.
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(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27973880_152767408867344_7369104132811039785_n.jpg?oh=587d67f48458aa217badc730755864e3&oe=5B0D1D31)
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(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27973880_152767408867344_7369104132811039785_n.jpg?oh=587d67f48458aa217badc730755864e3&oe=5B0D1D31)
In the case of National Socialists, the largest grave of Catholic priests is Dachau.
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In the case of National Socialists, the largest grave of Catholic priests is Dachau.
How about the tens of thousands killed by the communists? Compared to a couple hundred dissident and treaty breaking german priests who died of disease...
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How about the tens of thousands killed by the communists? Compared to a couple hundred dissident and treaty breaking german priests who died of disease...
They were both evil.
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See Miles Mathis PDF files on Hitler and Marx. This "Man in the Middle" attack of WWII was a fake to croak moral Christians and Jєωs by royal, yes, royal Frankist Satanistas expelled from Judaism for 1,000 years by the rabbinical Council of Four Lands. Are Catholics this lazy or ignorant? The Von Trapp family left Austria after the final straw of the removal of crucifixes from public schools. Marx was from the wealthy nobility as was Lenin and Hitler and his Satanista Jєωιѕн officials and financiers. Do your homework and look up Frankist Jєωs who were well supported by Muslim crypto-Satanists. Same with the Polish pogroms that croaked Catholic priests and real Jєωs via the piratical Cossack Satanista Kimmel Nitzky--read that Nicky Kimmel--with Turks/Tatars. Man in the Middle attack. Jєωs thought it was Christians and Catholics thought it was Muslims. Same here with crypto resistance dividing and conquering Catholics as managed opposition.
Pray and work and lift a finger to look up the Miles Mathis geneologies on all your fake villains and fake heroic types. Thanks. :incense:
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See Miles Mathis PDF files on Hitler and Marx. This "Man in the Middle" attack of WWII was a fake to croak moral Christians and Jєωs by royal, yes, royal Frankist Satanistas expelled from Judaism for 1,000 years by the rabbinical Council of Four Lands. Are Catholics this lazy or ignorant? The Von Trapp family left Austria after the final straw of the removal of crucifixes from public schools. Marx was from the wealthy nobility as was Lenin and Hitler and his Satanista Jєωιѕн officials and financiers. Do your homework and look up Frankist Jєωs who were well supported by Muslim crypto-Satanists. Same with the Polish pogroms that croaked Catholic priests and real Jєωs via the piratical Cossack Satanista Kimmel Nitzky--read that Nicky Kimmel--with Turks/Tatars. Man in the Middle attack. Jєωs thought it was Christians and Catholics thought it was Muslims. Same here with crypto resistance dividing and conquering Catholics as managed opposition.
Pray and work and lift a finger to look up the Miles Mathis geneologies on all your fake villains and fake heroic types. Thanks. :incense:
What
I'm serious, I have no clue.
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Google Jacob Frank and separately Google Miles Mathis Hitler or Miles Mathis Marx. Read PDF files and get the Big Picture. Then try his stuff on Napoleon and the French Revolution scam. Lift finger. Read. Thanks.
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There is no misunderstanding here. The nαzιs were enemies of the Catholic Church.
BS. The Communists posing as priests were the enemy.
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In the case of National Socialists, the largest grave of Catholic priests is Dachau.
Who were interred there for being Communist and pedophiles. The fact that they died from Allied bombings and disease doesn't prove anything about anti-Catholicism.
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Who were interred there for being Communist and pedophiles. The fact that they died from Allied bombings and disease doesn't prove anything about anti-Catholicism.
They were there because of the anti Catholic nature of the National Socialist movement.
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They were there because of the anti Catholic nature of the National Socialist movement.
If they were anti-Catholic, then why did the NSDAP allow the clergy continue to administer the Sacraments until the very end? Why did the Church honor Hitler after the war with Requiem Masses?
You really are dishonest when you continue to dodge the fact that Communist's were in the clerical ranks of the Church and the pedophilia was already rearing it's head pre-war Germany. Shame on you.
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If they were anti-Catholic, then why did the NSDAP allow the clergy continue to administer the Sacraments until the very end? Why did the Church honor Hitler after the war with Requiem Masses?
You really are dishonest when you continue to dodge the fact that Communist's were in the clerical ranks of the Church and the pedophilia was already rearing it's head pre-war Germany. Shame on you.
That the NSDAP tolerated the clergy doesn't alter the anti-Catholic nature of the party. We live in a country that is dominated by free masons and they allow the clergy to administer the sacraments here also.
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That the NSDAP tolerated the clergy doesn't alter the anti-Catholic nature of the party. We live in a country that is dominated by free masons and they allow the clergy to administer the sacraments here also.
Sure...
Not only did they "tolerate" Catholicism. They fomented it.
Granted, Hitler wasn't dealt the same cards as Franco was with Spain being 100% Catholic.
However Adolph did the best he could under the circuмstances to join Catholics and Lutherans under the Christian banner.
But make no mistake Catholics fighting for Germany, at the height of the war, were the majority (Thanks to the volunteers).
Catholic Chaplains were always more in numbers than the protestant chaplains. 550+ Catholics, while the protestants were in the 300's.
(https://justice4poland.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/screenhunter_884-oct-15-13-41.jpg?w=456&h=292&zoom=2)
SS-Waffen Mass.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hpbkyvFwkiE/VyNzpu9efdI/AAAAAAAACOw/Uk5thUtIBeUoMKQKpfH6JDRRM5BphsMawCLcB/s640/680_260_0254153.jpg)
Eastern Catholic procession.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WgUljC-OPy8/UPfApILD6qI/AAAAAAAAH6Y/jIOtgfzXevQ/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/CATHOLICVS-Santa-Misa-Division-Azul-1943-Holy-Mass.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jfnCy1OFLLc/UBamzB5Gf6I/AAAAAAAAB3I/BEDr5vRPLec/s400/66411486.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f4/6f/24/f46f24f9e0ef7b994bdf569c96f21201.jpg)
Mons. Josef Tiso (President of Slovakia).
(https://www.praguepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/jozef-tiso-hitler.jpg)
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/1b3a989139f51f89ba6e2b28e0138edf/tumblr_oyfvpt6JpW1ro8g6uo2_r1_500.jpg)
(http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/classes/133p/133p04papers/133p04papimg/perau2bot600pxw.jpg)
Poche, as always, either you are a Judaic, NO shill. Or you don't know what the heck you're talking about.
Advice from Mark Twain:
“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”.
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Sure...
Not only did they "tolerate" Catholicism. They fomented it.
Granted, Hitler wasn't dealt the same cards as Franco was with Spain being 100% Catholic.
However Adolph did the best he could under the circuмstances to join Catholics and Lutherans under the Christian banner.
But make no mistake Catholics fighting for Germany, at the height of the war, were the majority (Thanks to the volunteers).
Catholic Chaplains were always more in numbers than the protestant chaplains. 550+ Catholics, while the protestants were in the 300's.
(https://justice4poland.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/screenhunter_884-oct-15-13-41.jpg?w=456&h=292&zoom=2)
SS-Waffen Mass.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hpbkyvFwkiE/VyNzpu9efdI/AAAAAAAACOw/Uk5thUtIBeUoMKQKpfH6JDRRM5BphsMawCLcB/s640/680_260_0254153.jpg)
Eastern Catholic procession.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WgUljC-OPy8/UPfApILD6qI/AAAAAAAAH6Y/jIOtgfzXevQ/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/CATHOLICVS-Santa-Misa-Division-Azul-1943-Holy-Mass.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jfnCy1OFLLc/UBamzB5Gf6I/AAAAAAAAB3I/BEDr5vRPLec/s400/66411486.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f4/6f/24/f46f24f9e0ef7b994bdf569c96f21201.jpg)
Mons. Josef Tiso (President of Slovakia).
(https://www.praguepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/jozef-tiso-hitler.jpg)
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/1b3a989139f51f89ba6e2b28e0138edf/tumblr_oyfvpt6JpW1ro8g6uo2_r1_500.jpg)
(http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/classes/133p/133p04papers/133p04papimg/perau2bot600pxw.jpg)
Poche, as always, either you are a Judaic, NO shill. Or you don't know what the heck you're talking about.
Advice from Mark Twain:
“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”.
That must be why they were condemned by Pope Pius XI in Mit Brennender Sorge.
http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_p-xi_enc_14031937_mit-brennender-sorge.html
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That must be why they were condemned by Pope Pius XI in Mit Brennender Sorge.
http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_p-xi_enc_14031937_mit-brennender-sorge.html
You really are a broken record. Are you claiming infallibility on this?
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I must have missed the excommunication declarations.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/11/06/01/2E27545D00000578-0-image-m-20_1446772108899.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/Etx1ntAZdtIZvmBZ7yG4l2TVf3TW1QdYLsv-KZETZWbxIWfiOuEgVa_IUai3I86N63-fJSxf989eDfu4VoDkuOCWK4S3fqPEwJoGFyhAR_xHsugtQMRAEqs1wCkQ4CS7vpz5qmGuwQ0PyDIG6lGvQ3aJqKcxJ5_N=w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-774Wy3cvKtE/U20nJ9IbMgI/AAAAAAAAEeg/T5H6yGNXe34/s1600/08.-+ovidio-rodriguez-castañe.jpg)
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You really are a broken record. Are you claiming infallibility on this?
I am simply stating what Pope Pius said in regard to the National Socialists in Germany.
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https://youtu.be/Z22N84yOXbo
[youtube]https://youtu.be/Z22N84yOXbo[/youtube]
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I am simply stating what Pope Pius said in regard to the National Socialists in Germany.
You're dodging the question. Is the pope infallible in this?
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You're dodging the question. Is the pope infallible in this?
I think that the National Socialist policies bears out the truth of the Pope's condemnation.
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I think that the National Socialist policies bears out the truth of the Pope's condemnation.
I think the subversive, dishonest and pedophile clerics bears out the Reich's actions.
Try answering the damn question. Infallible or not?
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I think the subversive, dishonest and pedophile clerics bears out the Reich's actions.
Try answering the damn question. Infallible or not?
I think that those accusations were pretexts rather than based on the truth. It was not unheard of for the National Socialists and the Communists to get enough young men drunk and coerce them into signing an accusation.
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(https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article102323.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/the-artful-dodger-798044479.jpg)
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I think that those accusations were pretexts rather than based on the truth. It was not unheard of for the National Socialists and the Communists to get enough young men drunk and coerce them into signing an accusation.
So Bella Dodd was a liar? The Communist clergy at Vatican II just appeared out of thin air?
There were no pedophiles in the Church before or during the war?
Yes or no. Are you claiming infallibility on Mit Brennender Sorge?
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Sure...
Not only did they "tolerate" Catholicism. They fomented it.
Granted, Hitler wasn't dealt the same cards as Franco was with Spain being 100% Catholic.
Nevermind the fact that Germany, along with Italy and Portugal, were the only Nations in the world to support Franco, both financially and militarily in the Spanish cινιℓ ωαr.
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So Bella Dodd was a liar? The Communist clergy at Vatican II just appeared out of thin air?
There were no pedophiles in the Church before or during the war?
Yes or no. Are you claiming infallibility on Mit Brennender Sorge?
I am not making any claims on Bella Dodd.
I am claiming that the National Socialists and the Communists would use the accusation (false accusation achieved by coercion) of pedophilia in order to co-opt the Catholic Church.
I am stating that we as Catholics should give credence to what Pope Pius XI, the contemporary pope of those times, had to say about National Socialism and its abuses of the Catholic Church.
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I am not making any claims on Bella Dodd.
I am claiming that the National Socialists and the Communists would use the accusation (false accusation achieved by coercion) of pedophilia in order to co-opt the Catholic Church.
I am stating that we as Catholics should give credence to what Pope Pius XI, the contemporary pope of those times, had to say about National Socialism and its abuses of the Catholic Church.
Would or not, pedos have been demonstrated to have existed as the crisis in the Church proves these last 50+ years. The difference is that the NSDAP was willing to do something about it as opposed to so called Catholics. So you lose that argument.
So I am assuming that since you won't answer the infallibility question, you are denying that it applies. But you are saying that Pius XI's words for those times should be given credence. Assuming that those words were in fact his, and I have shown that there is doubt based on Cardinal Siri's own words, that does not mean that it still holds weight now that we have the benefit of historical hindsight that nullifies whatever it is that he may have said. Thus, it means nothing now that we know what really happened in before during and after WWII.
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Would or not, pedos have been demonstrated to have existed as the crisis in the Church proves these last 50+ years. The difference is that the NSDAP was willing to do something about it as opposed to so called Catholics. So you lose that argument.
So I am assuming that since you won't answer the infallibility question, you are denying that it applies. But you are saying that Pius XI's words for those times should be given credence. Assuming that those words were in fact his, and I have shown that there is doubt based on Cardinal Siri's own words, that does not mean that it still holds weight now that we have the benefit of historical hindsight that nullifies whatever it is that he may have said. Thus, it means nothing now that we know what really happened in before during and after WWII.
It is interesting how you pull up obscure quotes from various popes and refer to them as infallible and yet when the Pope of the time says something that you don't like then you are all about rejecting it because it is not "infallible."
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It is interesting how you pull up obscure quotes from various popes and refer to them as infallible and yet when the Pope of the time says something that you don't like then you are all about rejecting it because it is not "infallible."
Nice "pivot".
I have never quoted popes to prove infallibility. My entire time on this site has never been devoted to any such discussion. I have never revealed my mind as to what I believe in regards to the crisis in the Catholic Church.
Since you are accusing me of quoting popes for infallibility, demonstrate it. All you have to do is a search. I have nothing to hide and you will shown to be mistaken for your assertion about me.
But keep on dodging the issue, Poche. It's a revealing case study of obstinance.
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Nice "pivot".
I have never quoted popes to prove infallibility. My entire time on this site has never been devoted to any such discussion. I have never revealed my mind as to what I believe in regards to the crisis in the Catholic Church.
Since you are accusing me of quoting popes for infallibility, demonstrate it. All you have to do is a search. I have nothing to hide and you will shown to be mistaken for your assertion about me.
But keep on dodging the issue, Poche. It's a revealing case study of obstinance.
No, it is a case study of what the teaching authority of the Catholic Church had to say at the time.
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No, it is a case study of what the teaching authority of the Catholic Church had to say at the time.
And in that case, it was flat out wrong, as the unfolding of subsequent history and information has come to light.
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And in that case, it was flat out wrong, as the unfolding of subsequent history and information has come to light.
No, it was right because teh magisterial teaching of the Catholic Church applies to everyone.
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No, it was right because teh magisterial teaching of the Catholic Church applies to everyone.
So it was infallible?