Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: What might have happened over skies of Ukraine  (Read 1246 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Matthew

  • Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 31183
  • Reputation: +27098/-494
  • Gender: Male
What might have happened over skies of Ukraine
« on: July 19, 2014, 03:52:30 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • An interesting read...

    The ECM Battle in the Sky Above Poland, Russia and the Ukraine That Saved Putin’s Life but Downed MH17

    When I learned that Vladamir Putin was going to travel to South America for the last game of the World Cup and for the BRICS Conference, I was concerned that he might be attacked.  Now when the US President travels, he flies on one of two identical Boeing 747-200B USAF Presidential State Aircraft.  The one that he is riding in is officially designated as Air Force One, the other is carrying staff and reporters, etc., but is also acting as a decoy aircraft making the task of shooting down the correct Boeing 747 more difficult.  The planes have constant fighter coverage with AWACS and refueling tankers.  In areas over the ocean the US Navy has been known to re-task supercarrier task forces to provide USN fighter coverage when necessary.  

    Now Russia remains a nuclear superpower, but it no longer is the overall superpower that the old Soviet Union was with its Warsaw Pact allies.  There is no Warsaw Pact now, and many of these nations are members of NATO.

    The USSR is broken up and long gone.  So Russia cannot provide the level of protection to its Presidential State Aircraft, a IL-96-300PU, that the American President has.  Still, the Russians do take special efforts to keep their Head of State safe.  

    Considering the level of pre-WWIII events currently happening in the Ukraine and the Middle East, and the growing irritation that Globalists and Zionist forces have had with Putin and his Russia, the security experts charged with protecting Putin were no doubt very concerned about his long overseas visit.  

    Putin effectively stopped an Israeli/US attack on Iran almost two years ago and a US/UK/Israeli attack on Syria about a year ago.  The US/Zionist/Globalist supported/funded coup against the elected Ukraine government and the resulting conflict was a calculated effort to draw Russia into a war over the Ukraine and thereby tie it down in order to allow Netanyahu free hand to create his long-sought General Middle East War.  Putin has proven to be a brilliant strategist and not easy to trap.  Hence, I believe that the decision was made to “take him out” of the picture by destroying his state aircraft as it flew over Russia but near the Ukraine on his return from South America.  

    That the Latin American trip included a key Brics Conference in Brazil which was a direct attack on the Rothschild-headed Global Banking Cartel’s power over the global economy and financial system, was a key factor in the decision that Putin had to be eliminated.  

    Taking the Russian State Aircraft down presented a number of problems.  If it were downed over the open ocean, fingers would point at America as the superpower capable of global military action.  Host nations did provide considerable security to Putin and his aircraft while he was in their nations and airspace.  What better place to attack the IL-96 than over Russian airspace near the Ukraine, shortly after it had left Polish airspace.  At worst the coup junta in the Ukraine would be blamed and Moscow might invade the Ukraine in response, thereby tying down its military and freeing the Mideast for a truly horrific general war.

    The Russians were well aware of the dangers and were actively looking for stealthed fighters and mobile ground-to-air advanced systems with airborne state-of-the-art sensors.  A few years ago, Russian engineers devised a way to ‘stealth’ existing non-stealthy aircraft using a plasma system.  This system has been reported on and no doubt copied  by various western powers.  Now no stealth system is perfect, and in fact the whole field of stealth has had its share of PR hype.  The attempt is to create a ‘black hole’ in the sky that no radar or infrared/etc. signals are capable of being detected.  However, no such system is perfect and highly advanced electronic systems can usually detect a stealth aircraft (manned or unmanned) operating in a given area.

    Based on assorted reports and a general knowledge of military systems including ECM (electronic counter measures) this is what I believe happened in the skys over Poland, Russia and the Ukraine that led to the deaths of 295 people on Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17:  Russian Air Force electronic surveillance/ECM aircraft were able to detect a stealth fighter in/near the expected flight path of the Russian State Aircraft.  Since shooting down this aircraft was not a certainty, especially since the Ukrainian Junta had just moved a number of advanced ‘Buk’ ground-to-air missile systems into eastern Ukraine, the Russian ECM aircraft immediately began to spoof things.  The IL-96 was likely contacted by satellite secure radio transmissions and told to turn off or change its ID squawking and a nearby large aircraft, the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 Flight MH17 was spoofed to cover its normal ID code and replace it with the IL-96 code.

    In the meantime the Israeli Air Force F-15 (likely a F-15I two-seat Strike Eagle with AIM-20 AMRAAM radar-guided missiles and using a plasma stealth system), which had taken off some time, from a base in Azerbaijan, before the IL-96 was in Poland, was positing itself in a ‘kill box’ anticipating the known altitude, speed, route, and time window of the Russian jet.  This is where the Russians make use of ECM to protect the Presidential State Aircraft of Russia.  They knew that the IL-96 and a similar sized Boeing 777 (Flight MH17) were traveling along the same route over Poland.  According to Russia’s Interfax News Agency:

    “I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing  intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was  close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters.  The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the  Malaysian aircraft – 15:44 Moscow time,”a source told the  news agency on condition of anonymity. “The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions  are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote  distance they are almost identical”, the source added.

    The Malaysian airliner was now being electronically spoofed by Russian ECM to give the ID of the IL-96.  The Israeli flight crew knew that the plane was over Ukrainian airspace, but just barely, and it closed to make a visual contact.  What it saw was a white large airliner sized plane.  It launched a radar-guided AIM-20 AMRAAM missile from a few miles away to lesson the radar jamming expected to be on the IL-96 and destroyed the target and quickly exited the local area.

    Early reports, and these are always most important as they are given and reported before a cover-up can be initiated, quoted multiple witnesses on the ground that a fighter had fired a missile and this missile had hit the airliner bringing it down. The witnesses thought that the fighter was a Ukrainian fighter such as a Su-27 which has a twin-tail and from a distance looks similar to a F-15 with its twin-tail.

    The Russians have no advantage to ‘outing’ the true story.  For one thing they helped, by using ECM, to cause MH17 to be shot down.  Secondly, without a downed Israeli F-15I, to prove the story, it would simply be a “he said, she said” story that the Israelis and Ukrainians would deny.  So we have this on-going back and forth claims that the Junta’s Buk  surface-to-air missile downed the Malaysian  airliner, or that somehow the ‘rebels’ shot it down, or that the Russians fired a surface-to-air missile that took it down.

    However, experience intelligence analysts in Europe and elsewhere are not apt to buy a story line that somehow a large airliner was shot down over the Ukraine, when no plane had ever been shot down at this altitude (33,000 feet) before during the on-going conflict and moreover that this same airliner had crossed paths with Putin’s State Aircraft, returning from the Brics Conference in South America, only minutes before being shot down.  

    This is an absolute disaster for Netanyahu’s Israel.  When you try to kill someone like Putin you damn well better get the job done or he is apt to institute a ‘payback’ that you will not want to pay.  Further, a large number of European nations, and others, are realizing that tiny Israel tried to kill the President of Russia.  That will not work in Israel’s favor.  

    The aftereffects from this event are only just beginning but they are apt to change the world.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com


    Offline Binechi

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2318
    • Reputation: +512/-40
    • Gender: Male
    What might have happened over skies of Ukraine
    « Reply #1 on: July 19, 2014, 06:56:27 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Great Piece... Mathew..  You ll never see this on MSM

    I think all those prayers for Russia have helped this man and Nation.


    Offline Binechi

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2318
    • Reputation: +512/-40
    • Gender: Male
    What might have happened over skies of Ukraine
    « Reply #2 on: July 19, 2014, 07:33:10 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Then again , there s this ,, away to do away with 370

    http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/

    Offline PG

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1734
    • Reputation: +457/-476
    • Gender: Male
    What might have happened over skies of Ukraine
    « Reply #3 on: July 19, 2014, 12:15:55 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I don't buy the "this was a failed attack on Putin" line at all.  I think the most reasonable reason why this plane was diverted/set up to be destroyed is to bring the usa into this as a mediator who then sets up shop.  The usa officially(troops) in ukraine to act as mediator is not desirable at all.  I like the idea of a peaceful resolution between the opposing parties(which the usa cannot claim to be).  If a peaceful resolution doesn't come about, the idea of poroshenko and his slaves going bankrupt and/or dead at the hands of the natives(self defense) is the next best thing.  

    Also, don't give the Jєωs/illuminati so much credit.  They are idiots.   God is not on their side.  Perhaps they will take a hit with this one.  It is looking real sloppy.  I pray, "let our enemies be ashamed".
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline CharlesII

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 247
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    What might have happened over skies of Ukraine
    « Reply #4 on: July 19, 2014, 02:28:56 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I think the most likely explanation is to create an excuse for the media to shift attention away from the Israeli slaughter in Gaza.  Malaysians are always targets for Mahatir's economic disobediance and truth telling about the Jєωs.  Taking it down over Ukraine allows "the West" to slam Putin.  

    55 Planes Flew over Ukraine on Day of Malaysian fαℓѕє fℓαg

    If WWIII is on the bankers' agenda, Putin needs to stay imo.


    Offline ggreg

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3001
    • Reputation: +184/-179
    • Gender: Male
    What might have happened over skies of Ukraine
    « Reply #5 on: July 19, 2014, 02:33:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • One thing I don't understand, if the pro-Russian rebels did shoot it down is what they thought the plane was, bearing in mind its altitude and course heading.  Since it would have been over Russian Territory in under five minutes, and was at 9000 metres clearly it was not about to land.  

    You would not bomb from that altitude unless you were dropping a nuke which Ukraine do not have.  A resupply plane or troop carrier would not be on the heading at that altitude.

    A 200 dollar telescope with a 50x magnification would have shown them the markings of an airliner.  They could have also looked at flightradar24.com and seen it was a commercial flight. It does seem extraordinary stupid to not do either of those two easy things before shooting at it.

    Perhaps they were drunk.

    Offline PG

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1734
    • Reputation: +457/-476
    • Gender: Male
    What might have happened over skies of Ukraine
    « Reply #6 on: July 19, 2014, 03:14:08 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Here is a scenario.  You heard them right away saying that it was a "buk" missile over and over again with absolutely no proof.   I think it may be a tactic similar to how they/the usa drew a "red line" with chemical weapons in syria(long before the fαℓѕє fℓαg).  Perhaps the usa and ukraine has reason to believe that russia plans to give buk missiles to the self defense units.  I think that is how kiev has been hurting the self defense/easterners(shelling from airplanes).  They have been bombing the local(russian) population.  Buk missile systems would solve that problem real fast.  If I were the russians, I would think it wise to consider giving the self defense those tools.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline PG

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1734
    • Reputation: +457/-476
    • Gender: Male
    What might have happened over skies of Ukraine
    « Reply #7 on: July 19, 2014, 04:38:56 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This airplane tragedy gives the usa the opportunity to draw a "red line".  Buk missiles in the hands of self defense may just be that red line.  It makes a lot of sense.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15


    Offline donkath

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1517
    • Reputation: +616/-116
    • Gender: Female
      • h
    What might have happened over skies of Ukraine
    « Reply #8 on: July 20, 2014, 11:28:51 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Report from our national newspaper "The Australian"

    Putin’s hand is all over the MH17 catastrophe

        PAUL DIBB
        The Australian
        July 21, 2014 12:00AM
     

    TRUE to form, President Vladi­mir Putin is resorting to lying about Russia’s involvement in the tragic shooting down of Malaysian Airways Flight MH17.

    He claims that “the government over whose territory it occurred is responsible for this terrible tragedy” and that MH17 would not have been downed had there not been cινιℓ ωαr in the southeast of Ukraine, a conflict he has repeatedly pinned on the government in Kiev.

    This is all a classical KGB ­colonel’s deception, disguising (mask­irovka) his true intent. Russia is deeply involved in providing weapons and infiltrating “Russian volunteers” into the east of Ukraine in an effort to destabilise the government in Kiev

    These are the facts. First, there is impeccable evidence the missile that brought down the Malaysians flight was an SA-11 (Russian designation Buk) ground-to-air missile with a speed of mach three, or three times the speed of sound.

    It has an operational ceiling in excess of 76,000 feet, or more than double the height of the ill-fated Malaysian airliner. And it was undoubtedly fired from a position well within rebel held territory in southeastern Ukraine. All these facts are well known to Australian intelligence, including from our access to US satellite information.

    What is not clear is how the pro-Russian secessionists got hold of what is a significantly advanced weapon system. Was it given to them by the Russians or did they capture it from the Ukrainian military? It would need some practice and training to launch this weapon system accurately.

    Were the rebels trained by the Russians or did elements of the Russian military actually press the button? We need to remember that there are large numbers of Russian troops — perhaps 10,000 to 12,000 — poised on Ukraine’s eastern borders.

    Moreover, it is a short distance from the area of the missile launch to the Russian border.

    Second, the rebel communications that the Ukrainian authorities have intercepted sound authentic: they record discussion of the destruction of the aircraft and debate about whether it is a Ukrainian military cargo plane carrying weapons, and then the realisation that it was a Malaysian civil airliner carrying a large number of civilians. The question here is how the pro-Russian secessionists could have confused such different types of aircraft, in particular one that was flying eastwards and would very soon — in a matter of 10 or so minutes — have crossed the border to fly across Russian territory on its way over Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India to Kuala Lumpur. That much would have been apparent and would have made absolutely no sense.

    Third, we need to ask ourselves if anybody stands to gain from this barbarous act. Clearly, it will rebound against any sympathy in the West for the pro-Russian secessionists. But for Putin it could well be a different matter. By now effectively closing down all the air space in the eastern part of Ukraine he has taken another step closer to effectively detaching an area from Kharkov in the north to Donetsk in the south from Kiev’s control and making it a Russian sphere of influence. This is his minimalist geopolitical aim.

    Whether or not this was a deliberate act of violence against innocent people or a genuine case of confusion and mistaken identity is not the point. The point is that if Russia had not fomented instability and violence in eastern Ukraine this would never have happened. Since March this year and the overthrow of the pro-­Russian president Viktor Yanukovych, Putin has tried his best to ensure the new government in Kiev would not try to join the EU and — even more importantly — not become a member of NATO.

    This is because Putin is hostile to what he perceives as an ever expanding NATO aimed at encircling Russia. Preventing this from happening is his core national interest and one way of securing it is to partition the Ukraine and detach the heavily Russian-speaking eastern part of that country either by force or by coercion.

    Some commentators in Australia are inclined to excuse Russia’s hostility towards the new Ukrainian government and even argue that this tragedy could have been averted if the authorities in Kiev had agreed to a ceasefire with the rebels, who were killing Ukrainian troops and shooting down their helicopters and military aircraft.

    It would not be harsh to see such sentiments as extremely naive, reflecting as they do the Kremlin’s propaganda line.

    What remains to be done? As both Tony Abbott and Bill Shorten have stressed, now is the time for a measured response ensuring that there is an absolutely impartial international investigation.

    The crash site must be secured from tampering with whatever evidence might still be available and the black box recorders must be surrendered by whosoever now has them.

    And there must be a review of International Civil Aviation ­Organisation rules about civilian airliners flying over conflict zones.

    And if Russia’s hand is proven to be behind this callous act, either directly or indirectly, then relations with that country must be fundamentally reviewed.

    Paul Dibb is professor of strategic studies at the Australian National University.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/putins-hand-is-all-over-the-mh17-catastrophe/story-e6frgd0x-1226995368546

    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    What might have happened over skies of Ukraine
    « Reply #9 on: July 21, 2014, 12:11:08 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • As news broke of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 being downed in eastern Ukraine, the separatist’s shadowy commander with a pencil mustache issued a dark warning on social media.

    Through his VK.com account, Russia’s version of Facebook, the self-proclaimed defense minister of the Donetsk People’s Republic, Igor Girkin — who goes by the nom de guerre Igor Strelkov — boasted about shooting down a plane.

    "We did warn you — do not fly in our sky," he wrote.

    Thinking it was a Ukrainian transport plane, Strelkov added that “a plane has just been downed somewhere around Torez, it lays there behind the 'Progress' mine,” referring to the mining town of some 80,000 people.

    “And here is the video proving another 'bird' falling down,” he continued. “The bird went down behind a slagheap, not in a residential district. So no peaceful people were injured,” Strelkov wrote, adding that there is also information about a Ukrainian military plane shot down.

    However, Strelkov deleted the post when he found out it was actually a commercial jetliner carrying 295 innocent people — not a military aircraft.

    When Mashable called Alexander Borodai, self-declared prime minister of Donetsk People's Republic, to ask if the group was responsible for shooting down the plane, to which he responded: "Listen, we don't have these weapons [to down the 777]."

    Then he hung up.


    The pro-Russian rebels in Donetsk have been colliding with Ukrainian forces for months and have brought down several military aircrafts. However, the rebels denied their involvement with two crashes this week, saying they didn't have the kind of equipment to carry out such an event.

    On Wednesday, the Ukrainian government claimed that a Russian military plane shot down a Ukrainian fighter jet. Just two days ago, Ukrainian officials suggested that a military transport plane carrying food and water for troops was shot down by an advanced rocket system fired from Russia.

    Strelkov, a native Muscovite, is known for his brutality. As reported in Mashable, he led an illegal military tribunal and sentenced at least three Ukrainian citizens to death by firing squad under a 1941 Stalin-era law.

    http://mashable.com/2014/07/17/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-russia-rebel/