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Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => Topic started by: Matthew on May 28, 2016, 01:07:57 PM

Title: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Matthew on May 28, 2016, 01:07:57 PM
This video was very good.

If your instinctive reaction is to reject anything critical of the Moon Landing, please watch this anyhow. I learned a few things.

Just watch one of the astronauts blow up when confronted with incontrovertible proof that a hoax was perpetrated.

And there is LOTS of good evidence here that all the moon landings were a hoax.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/VhLSY5Kr7hA[/youtube]



Title: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Matto on May 28, 2016, 01:12:52 PM
I thought it was funny when Father Gardner, the priest at my chapel, mentioned during one of his sermons that some people believe we never went to the moon.
Title: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Matthew on May 28, 2016, 01:29:44 PM
I've watched videos before, and seen much of the evidence, and come to the conclusion that the Moon Landings were a hoax.

However, I learned a few things in this video.

FOR EXAMPLE --

One of the astronauts claimed that they stayed cool for THREE DAYS on the moon thanks to "big batteries" onboard the LEM.

You got to be kidding me! BATTERIES? Seriously? I almost laughed out loud when he said that. I was embarrassed for him, it was such a silly lie.

The moon has no atmosphere, and it gets cooked by the sun on the daylight side -- up to 250 degrees F. And with no atmosphere, you can't use convection to draw off heat. You'd have to re-RADIATE the heat away. The amount of energy that would take far exceeds what could be stored in a few batteries, however large. And this was in 1970 remember.

I've done solar panel systems with deep cycle batteries before. I am well aware of how much electricity A/C takes -- but again, you can't use standard A/C on the moon because of the complete lack of atmosphere.

And how did those space suits hide a magic battery, enough to keep away the 250 degrees for HOURS AND HOURS at a time?
Title: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Matthew on May 28, 2016, 01:31:14 PM
Quote from: Matto
I thought it was funny when Father Gardner, the priest at my chapel, mentioned during one of his sermons that some people believe we never went to the moon.


I don't find it surprising AT ALL that Fr. Gardner is one of those who is content to stay with the neo-SSPX and ignore all the evidence they are doing a sellout.

+Williamson is right. Truth is truth, and a person who will ignore a truth about nature (moon landings, 9/11) is likely to ignore other truths as well.

Why discriminate against some truths? Truth should be sought by our intellect IN ALL THINGS, not just sometimes, or when it comes to religious truths.
Title: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: qeddeq on May 28, 2016, 01:46:17 PM
Over the course of a full lunar day and night, the temperature on the Moon can vary wildly, from around +200 to -200 degrees Celsius (+392 to -328 degrees Fahrenheit), so it’s natural to wonder how lunar astronauts survived this huge temperature variation.

The first thing to know is that all trips on to the Moon’s surface were carefully planned for lunar dawn, to ensure the surface hadn’t had time to heat up fully to its daytime temperature. It is also important to think about how heat can be transferred to astronauts on the lunar surface.

There are three ways heat can transfer and only two are possible on the Moon. The first is radiation, both directly from the Sun and from the Sun’s reflection on the surface. The astronauts’ spacesuits were designed to reflect almost 90% of the light that reaches it, so very little heat would have transferred to the astronauts.

The second is by conduction from the direct contact their feet had with the surface. This is also an ineffective process as regolith on the lunar surface doesn’t conduct heat well and the astronauts’ boots were insulated, slowing down conduction even further. This shows that even though huge temperature variations occur on the Moon, lunar astronauts were never actually exposed to them.


very funny matthew, trying to bait us. I guess I got baited.
Title: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Croix de Fer on May 28, 2016, 02:13:00 PM
I wonder if geddeg is Icterus (a banned previous CathInfo member)?

He posts and comments on a lot of the same issues as Icterus, and despite geddeg's deliberate grammar mistakes (not capitalizing the beginning of sentences) as a means to throw off the observer, the writing style is similar.  

:detective:
Title: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Matthew on May 28, 2016, 10:45:53 PM
Funny how Hollywood always likes to leak their secret by means of movies.

Remember the movie Wag the Dog?

Now I find out there was a movie about a faked landing in 1977.

"Capricorn One"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077294/
Title: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: LaramieHirsch on May 29, 2016, 07:12:20 AM
Fascinating.  Thumbs up on this one.  No idea what to believe these days.
Title: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: RomanCatholic1953 on May 29, 2016, 08:40:33 AM
I wondered about the Van Allen belt that lead me to doubt the so called moon
landing and walk of 1969.
I remember watching the moon walk on live TV and remembered a discussion
of the Van Allen Radiation Belt in a High School Science class earlier in the decade
of the 1960's.  That Man cannot ever go to the moon nor any other planet.
Because it is not possible.  

From Wikipedia is more on the Van Allen belt:

Van Allen radiation belt
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
File:Van Allen Belts.ogv
This video illustrates changes in the shape and intensity of a cross section of the Van Allen belts

Van Allen radiation belts (cross section)
A radiation belt is a layer of energetic charged particles that is held in place around a magnetized planet, such as the Earth, by the planet's magnetic field. The Earth has two such belts and sometimes others may be temporarily created. The discovery of the belts is credited to James Van Allen, and as a result the Earth's belts are known as the Van Allen belts. The main belts extend from an altitude of about 1,000 to 60,000 kilometers above the surface in which region radiation levels vary. Most of the particles that form the belts are thought to come from solar wind and other particles by cosmic rays.[1] The belts are located in the inner region of the Earth's magnetosphere. The belts contain energetic electrons and protons. Other nuclei, such as alpha particles, are less prevalent. The belts endanger satellites, which must protect their sensitive components with adequate shielding if they spend significant time in the radiation belts. In 2013, NASA reported that the Van Allen Probes had discovered a transient, third radiation belt, which was observed for four weeks until destroyed by a powerful, interplanetary shock wave from the Sun.[2]
Title: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Matthew on May 29, 2016, 09:10:29 AM
I like how one of the videos ended (I think it was the video I posted in the OP):

The narrator said that SCIENCE dictates that we discard the so-called "moon landings" as an aberration.

They haven't been duplicated, not even a fraction of what was accomplished, in 45 years!

What should a scientist think of data like this:

300, 250, 300, 300, 250, 240000, 300, 300, 250, 300, 300, 250, 300, 300, 250, 300, 300, 250, 300, 300, 250, 300, (many hundreds of times)...

That "240000" datum was obviously a mistake!


Those numbers represent how far from the earth our astronauts have traveled -- always to low earth orbit. All the missions took place there (Skylab, ISS, Mir, Space Shuttle, etc.) The moon, however, is 240,000 miles away.

He mentioned that the Wright Brothers, Charles Lindbergh, Sputnik, ALL those breakthroughs were followed up with many more like it. We didn't go 45 years without an airplane taking off. And look how many rocket launches into low earth orbit we've had since Sputnik!

Also, look at the Apollo missions -- we supposedly went to the moon several times, the missions often being just months apart. Going to the Moon is no big deal apparently! But now it's such a big deal that NO COUNTRY has gone there in 45 years? That doesn't make sense.

It also doesn't make sense that they haven't done it in over a generation. You can't say that "the people" are sick of Moon landings, any more than you can leave CathInfo because of "the membership" and stay gone for 5 years.

That is because "the people" completely change over the years. How many men and women can honestly say they're tired of news coverage about men on the moon? Why don't they send the first woman to the moon? Huh? Wouldn't that be a nice liberal breakthrough?

Anyone under 55 can't even remember the "moon landings". And that's a heck of a lot of people! Isn't NASA worried about an intellectual "brain drain" since effectively we never did it? How can they claim to have "experience" when every last person in the place has never been involved in a manned Moon mission? Experience doesn't reside in the walls of NASA or its computers. It resides in the PEOPLE who work there. Do they really have a bunch of 80 and 90 year olds working there as consultants in case they want to go back to the Moon again?

Because a 55 year old might remember seeing the Moon Landing on TV, but he was only 8 years old in 1969! Then men who worked at NASA at the time, including all the astronauts, were certainly much older.
Title: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Matthew on May 29, 2016, 09:21:00 AM
And no one is suspicious about this:

The Russians were kicking our butt in the Space Race seven ways from Sunday:
First satellite
First animal in space
First man in space
First 2 spacecraft in orbit at once
etc.

In short, the USA was having its butt handed to them by the Russians in the Space Race.

...But then the underdog USA comes from behind to land a knockout blow!

Wow...it's like Rocky IV!  that kind of dramatic turnaround, that kind of surprise win by the underdog is worthy of a Hollywood movie!


Title: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: RomanCatholic1953 on May 29, 2016, 10:28:03 PM
Quote from: LaramieHirsch
Fascinating.  Thumbs up on this one.  No idea what to believe these days.


It is like the propaganda that were taught as school children all the way
to college-university as true turns out to be false.
Today, it is much easier to decipher the truth because of the computer age.
One good you tube can tell if a a fαℓѕє fℓαg was real or a staged event.
About the moon landing in which I watched myself on live TV in 1969
now has some holes into it, and the Van Allen Belt is barely discussed.
Because the American public is so dumb down and the science class
rarely discusses any non government approved propaganda topics.
Title: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Neil Obstat on May 30, 2016, 12:17:59 AM
Quote from: Matthew
I've watched videos before, and seen much of the evidence, and come to the conclusion that the Moon Landings were a hoax.

However, I learned a few things in this video.

FOR EXAMPLE --

One of the astronauts claimed that they stayed cool for THREE DAYS on the moon thanks to "big batteries" onboard the LEM.

You got to be kidding me! BATTERIES? Seriously? I almost laughed out loud when he said that. I was embarrassed for him, it was such a silly lie.

The moon has no atmosphere, and it gets cooked by the sun on the daylight side -- up to 250 degrees F. And with no atmosphere, you can't use convection to draw off heat. You'd have to re-RADIATE the heat away. The amount of energy that would take far exceeds what could be stored in a few batteries, however large. And this was in 1970 remember.

I've done solar panel systems with deep cycle batteries before. I am well aware of how much electricity A/C takes -- but again, you can't use standard A/C on the moon because of the complete lack of atmosphere.

And how did those space suits hide a magic battery, enough to keep away the 250 degrees for HOURS AND HOURS at a time?

I don't think there is any system, even today, that can cool a space suit or a landing craft using batteries for power.  Batteries provide electricity which HEATS not cools. Notice the astronaut did not mention the type of system the batteries are said to have powered.  All electrically powered cooling systems in use today are heat pumps which use refrigerant to move heat from one area to another area, so what area would the space suit deliver the heat to?  The ambient temperature around the spacesuit would have been hotter than the suit itself, and heat only flows from hot to cold, so the refrigerant would have to be hotter than ambient temperature. With the efficiency loss, you'd need to have refrigerant at 15 or 20 degrees hotter than the surface of the moon.  There is no such refrigerant today, regardless of CFC's (chloroflourocarbons) or other banned materials.  The astronaut did not mention refrigerant.

(http://www.veskimo.com/images/ms-cooling-vest/veskimo-9-qt-body-cooling-system.jpg)

Here's one (http://www.veskimo.com/body-cooling-vest-products.php) that uses a "chilled water reservoir" to cool a person's vest.  But where would astronauts get chilled water on the moon?  BTW the battery powers a PUMP that circulates the chilled water, but it does not make the water cool.  Once the water in the reservoir is heated up, there is no more cooling.

So how did this mysterious battery-powered cooling system supposedly work?

Title: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Neil Obstat on May 30, 2016, 12:29:44 AM
Quote from: Matthew
And no one is suspicious about this:

The Russians were kicking our butt in the Space Race seven ways from Sunday:
First satellite
First animal in space
First man in space
First 2 spacecraft in orbit at once
etc.

In short, the USA was having its butt handed to them by the Russians in the Space Race.

...But then the underdog USA comes from behind to land a knockout blow!

Wow...it's like Rocky IV!  that kind of dramatic turnaround, that kind of surprise win by the underdog is worthy of a Hollywood movie!


Russia (called the "USSR" then) was real good at lying, an "error of Russia."  Recall the major newspaper "Pravda" (translated means "Truth") is packed with the opposite of the truth.

It's the fulfillment of the Fatima prophesy that the errors of Russia will be spread to the world, including the USA.

"But then the underdog USA comes from behind to land a knockout blow!" -- Remember, the first so-called moon landing happened only 2 years after the Apollo 1 human sacrifice of Virgil "Gus" Grissom, Edward White and Roger Chaffee in 1967.   Grissom was recorded asking, "How are we going to get to the moon if we can't talk between 3 buildings?"  So, of course, he had to die for that one.  Since then, astronauts don't dare criticize the Program.

Title: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: noOneImportant on May 31, 2016, 03:36:51 PM
Quote from: Matthew

What should a scientist think of data like this:

300, 250, 300, 300, 250, 240000, 300, 300, 250, 300, 300, 250, 300, 300, 250, 300, 300, 250, 300, 300, 250, 300, (many hundreds of times)...

That "240000" datum was obviously a mistake!




I would call it an anomaly, not a mistake. Could be a mistake, but assuming it is a priori would be foolish.

Quote from: Matthew

In short, the USA was having its butt handed to them by the Russians in the Space Race.

...But then the underdog USA comes from behind to land a knockout blow!

Wow...it's like Rocky IV!  that kind of dramatic turnaround, that kind of surprise win by the underdog is worthy of a Hollywood movie!



Leaving everything else aside for a moment, this there is actually a good explanation for. In 1892 a Russian mathematician by the name of Aleksandr Lyapunov published a book titled The General Problem of Stability of Motion. This paper was completely revolutionary in the analysis of differential equations, but went mostly unnoticed at the time of its publication (why: there were lots of hugely important mathematicians running around Russia at the time, and it was hard to get noticed).

The contents of this book are an essential part of the mathematical framework needed to get a vehicle into space. However, although they were (partially) translated into French in 1908, the result did not appear in English until 1960. Within 10 years, the US managed to catch up and pass Russia in the space race.

I could provide sources for all of this if anyone wants, but you'll probably have to take my word for it on the importance of this particular work. It's hard to explain it's significance without going into a lot of detail on differential equations :)
Title: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Gag Hogan Ilium on June 01, 2016, 08:18:56 PM
I also like how NASA keeps postponing their manned Mars missions.
Title: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: aryzia on June 02, 2016, 10:49:18 AM
Another very SHORT video showing we never went to the moon. The words to the song are telling as you watch the NASA nonsense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zcz0eL_bYsI
Title: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: aryzia on June 02, 2016, 11:19:33 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFd-ttWUmJ4

Satellites are another NASA hoax
Title: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: aryzia on June 02, 2016, 11:24:08 AM
Another shorter video proving beyond doubt that satellites do not exist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvV9zZktq28
Title: Happy 50th Anniversary!/Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science [...]
Post by: AlligatorDicax on July 21, 2019, 12:58:41 AM
Here's wishing CathInfo members, readers, and of course its owner-moderator, a happy 50th anniversary [*] of the Landing on the Moon by the U.S. lunar-lander Eagle of Apollo 11.


For myself I do not believe it was faked [:]

Having lived through the time, I remember there was great competition between the USA and the Soviet Union in the 'space race.'

I also "lived through the time".  I definitely do not believed that the Moon Landing was faked.  It's a tremendous advantage to have had years to assimilate geopolitical events and their interconnections over many years as they were happening, rather than being limited to trying to absorb the information and make connections ad hoc, when it's aged into becoming a history of a time before you were born.

Yes, great competition arose between the U.S.A. and the Soviet Union, despite having been at-least nominal allies in World War II, in pretty much every aspect of life that could be motivated by national pride or political ideology.  So when Soviet Premier Nikita Khruschëv broadcast his threat "we will bury you", we were surprised only by its bluntness.  We and our world of "the time" survived, undoubtedly only with continual infusions of huge amounts of God's graces, notwithstanding contrary opinions of the Godless communists.

-------
Note *: It was still the anniversary date July 20 until too many minutes ago at the CathInfo server-bunker in the Central Daylight Time-Zone.  But what in [Hades] is up with the "Docuмent expired error message that I just got while making my last few edits before posting!?  [Expletives deleted!]  It's really no comfort that the correct date as reckoned by Greenwich Time is July 21.  Well, I hope it was a happy anniversary for one and all.
Title: Re: Happy 50th Anniversary!/Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science [...]
Post by: Cera on July 21, 2019, 03:18:03 PM
Here's wishing CathInfo members, readers, and of course its owner-moderator, a happy 50th anniversary [*] of the Landing on the Moon by the U.S. lunar-lander Eagle of Apollo 11.

I also "lived through the time".  I definitely do not believed that the Moon Landing was faked. 
Having "lived through the time" of (Free - masonic) NASA's great psy op means only that those of us who "lived through the time" are more brainwashed than those who did not.
Only those who, with an open mind, have examined both sides of the issue, are competent to give an INFORMED opinion. Uninformed opinions tend to provide support only for the success of a psy op.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: hollingsworth on July 26, 2019, 09:15:44 PM
 
Quote
Matthew: And there is LOTS of good evidence here that all the moon landings were a hoax.
Look at NASA’s own site. There is little on it, IMO, that suggests that even they believe we ever went above low Earth orbit. Here’s part of their mission statement:


Quote
A Flexible Path
This is the beginning of a new era in space exploration in which NASA has been challenged to develop systems and capabilities required to explore beyond low-Earth orbit, including destinations such as translunar space, near-Earth asteroids and eventually Mars.
Why doesn't this statement at least mention that at one time they did have that capability?

In fact, it now appears, a NASA space craft may not even have traveled half the way to low Earth orbit’s peak of 1200 miles.

They want to keep the NASA program going, because over the decades it’s been a money magnet, keeping the space industry alive and making lots of contractors and sub contractors happy.

NASA is attempting, I believe, to provide a soft landing for the American public. They don’t openly state that we never went to the moon, but they can’t bring themselves to confess unequivocally that we didn’t. That would dry up the funding fast.

Astronaut Don Pettit makes breathtakingly silly remarks about our inability to do presently what was accomplished in 1969 forty years ago. He’d go back to the moon “in a nanosecond,” But the problem is, he says, “we do not have the technology to do that anymore.” This can only mean that the dog ate it.

Another female NASA spokeman and astronaut dreams excitedly about leaving lower earth orbit for the first time. “This is really the beginning,” she says, “of humans leaving lower earth orbit.” Only the beginning? Really?

NASA astronaut Terry Virts, now retired, testifies that lower earth orbit “is the farthest we can go for now.” Why does he make no effort to quality that remark by reminding us, like Don Pettit, that we once had the technology, but that somehow it got away from us?

 
This is NASA’s way, I imagine, of coming clean without really coming clean.

 
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Clemens Maria on July 27, 2019, 06:10:54 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SnUaeMuyB0&app=desktop&persist_app=1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SnUaeMuyB0&app=desktop&persist_app=1)
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: hollingsworth on July 27, 2019, 09:42:19 PM
Another promotional video for your viewing pleasure.  Orion is the latest NASA lie.  Apollo was the one they tried to put over on the world 50 years ago. 'Jack Armstrong,' NASA's all-American boy tells us how this will be done.  No old "science stuff" this time.  Orion is state of the art.  Orion is brand spanking new.  The dog ate Apollo technology.  But no matter.  That same dog will choke on this one.  They'll really crack through the Van Allen belts this time, and it probably won't cost the taxpayers much in excess of a trillion dollars.
The neo-sspx could not have made a video glossier and slicker than this one.   Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O5dPsu66Kw
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Stanley N on July 27, 2019, 10:19:21 PM
Overall interesting. Seems the originator of this conspiracy theory doesn't seem very credible.
I'm not that hard on Kaysing, who is what the above clip was about. Sibrel is dishonest, though, and it's difficult not to think Sibrel is a con man.

Kaysing was a writer. He wrote on a lot of different topics. Motorcycling, a survival manual, travel books, and a cookbook. Price Stern Sloan (PSS) was a publisher of humor and parody works, and apparently in 1974, they agreed with Kaysing to write a satire on the moon landings and gave him a small advance. When they saw his manuscript, they called it a collection of notes and said it didn't work out. (A letter from PSS to that effect is in the book he eventually self-published.)

What seems to have happened is that he started to believe the stuff he was creating - that was supposed to be parody/satire. Although he did work as a technical writer, he really had no technical expertise. People with no technical training can sometimes get lost in narratives about technology that are disconnected from reality. I know a few other people with humanities backgrounds who similarly got lost. Most of these people have English degrees, like Kaysing, and I suspect that's significant. (However, I may have a selection bias because I know a lot more people with degrees in English or comparative literature degrees than with degrees in philosophy or art or another humanity.)
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Clemens Maria on July 28, 2019, 12:48:09 PM
I make no judgment about Kaysing’s character (or Sribel’s for that matter).  I just note that key pieces of evidence are not verified by publicly available evidence.  E.g. the anonymous pilot who saw the capsule dumped out of a c-5 over the Pacific.  Same idea as the jfk windshield with a bullet hole exiting into the limo.  We can’t verify that information.  We simply have to trust the conspiracy theory.  And then as soon as you start trying to interpret the behavior of astronauts then the credibility of the whole theory goes right into a dumpster.  If it really was a fake, there should be endless amounts of corroborating evidence.  There were hundreds of thousands of people involved for crying out loud!  It would be easier to just go to the moon than to fake it.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: hollingsworth on July 28, 2019, 02:49:05 PM

21st Century Wired posted an article in 2015 that I found very interesting, and it seems to reinforce the position that I and millions of others take. https://21stcenturywire.com/2015/03/14/video-nasas-orion-engineer-admits-they-cant-get-past-van-allen-radiation-belts/ (https://21stcenturywire.com/2015/03/14/video-nasas-orion-engineer-admits-they-cant-get-past-van-allen-radiation-belts/)

The article quotes from a NASA Orion engineer (‘Jack Armstrong’), whose slick video has already been posted. So I’ll not put it up again. Those who do “science stuff” can go back and look at it if they’re interested.

There's another NASA guy does videos regularly. He likes to do them in a deep forest setting for some reason.  In one of these videos, (at least), he discusses the Van Allen Belts, and explains how the original Apollo astronauts, on six separate missions, from 1969 to Dec. 1972, got through these belts successfully, going and coming, a collective, whopping 12 times. I mean, talk about what NASA could do with relatively weak Apollo technology, which has since been discarded, i.e. lost? mislaid? in the trash out in back? Who knows? In any case, Orion will make future space travel and exploration a slam dunk.

This fellow takes us through the structural make up of the VA Belts. They’re highly charged particles, e.g. alpha particles, beta particles, electrons, free protons, etc. Very dangerous and potentially lethal stuff. They surround earth, in a high state of flux, depending upon the sun’s activity and a wide variety of other factors. These particles take the shape of two donut-shaped electro-magneic belts, held somewhat close by the earth’s molten iron core. At times, during especially active periods of the sun, a third belt will appear.

I think, generally speaking,I have only a stupid Goy’s understanding of this particular explanation of space science Kabbalah. But that’s all the “science stuff” I plan to do today. It’s so exhausting.

Anyway, this NASA guy points to areas in the Van Allen Belts which contain lower amounts of dangerous radiation. The trick is to find those regions of weaker activity, and barrel through them quickly. That’s what the Apollo capsules did, so says this NASA spokesman.

Yep, using football terminology, the NASA offense juked and jived, Barry Sanders-like, through the Van Allen defense. No one laid a hand on them. Then they came back up the field and did the same thing, 12 times in all. It was a complete rout of the Van Allen Team.

If you believe this story, then you probably believe that Francis is Catholic, and that the New Mass is an improvement upon the Old.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: SeanJohnson on July 28, 2019, 04:35:32 PM
I haven’t read any of this thread, but just wanted to go on record expressing my serious doubt that we ever put a man on the moon.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Clemens Maria on July 28, 2019, 08:17:17 PM
Not every wacky conspiracy theory is science-based so the problem isn’t an inability to work through the equations, etc.  The problem as you say is fear but also it is an inability to make good judgments about who is worthy of trust. Kaysing isn’t trustworthy.  Sribel isn’t trustworthy.  That isn’t to say that the status quo is always correct.  But any theory which requires us to believe that many thousands of otherwise upstanding people are maliciously lying is a non-starter for me.  That’s not a credible position.

If on the other hand you can show that the existing evidence is being misinterpreted, that’s a completely different situation.  I think evolution is a scientific hoax not because all the scientists are lying but because they have been trained to misinterpret the evidence.  That’s completely different from accusing all the astronauts and nasa engineers and management of being malicious liars.  The theory is complete BS.  Same thing with flat earth.  Everyone isn’t lying.  If your pet theory requires belief that everyone is lying, it’s a sure sign that it is a false theory.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Ladislaus on July 28, 2019, 08:22:50 PM
I haven’t read any of this thread, but just wanted to go on record expressing my serious doubt that we ever put a man on the moon.

Agreed.  While I lack absolute certainty, in my mind I would give it a less-than-one-percent chance that we did.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Matthew on July 28, 2019, 09:00:47 PM
Not every wacky conspiracy theory is science-based so the problem isn’t an inability to work through the equations, etc.  The problem as you say is fear but also it is an inability to make good judgments about who is worthy of trust. Kaysing isn’t trustworthy.  Sribel isn’t trustworthy.  That isn’t to say that the status quo is always correct.  But any theory which requires us to believe that many thousands of otherwise upstanding people are maliciously lying is a non-starter for me.  That’s not a credible position.

If on the other hand you can show that the existing evidence is being misinterpreted, that’s a completely different situation.  I think evolution is a scientific hoax not because all the scientists are lying but because they have been trained to misinterpret the evidence.  That’s completely different from accusing all the astronauts and nasa engineers and management of being malicious liars.  The theory is complete BS.  Same thing with flat earth.  Everyone isn’t lying.  If your pet theory requires belief that everyone is lying, it’s a sure sign that it is a false theory.

Good point, but "the Astronauts" (which is what, 3 men?) and "management" would only constitute a half-dozen people, not thousands. So your whole premise for embracing the moon landing is flawed and not based in empirical evidence.

It has been repeated many times on CI -- COMPARTMENTALIZATION. Every low-level manager was NOT briefed on the big picture, and the true nature of the "moon landing". Every engineer who put together some circuits or designed some piece of hardware did NOT need to be "in-the-know" about the whole big picture either. 99.5% of the men involved in the "moon landing" would have been in this category. They only worked on their small part.

Why would all of them be let in on the full truth? They were on a Need-to-Know Basis, and they didn't need to know!

But be DARN careful about going with the flow of the masses. Don't ever assume the majority is automatically more likely to be correct. Only when "all other things be equal". For example, the masses of Catholics don't have a problem with Vatican II or the New Mass. We are the small minority in that controversy. Are ALL THOSE Novus Ordo Catholics wicked, malicious, or stupid?

On the other hand, most people don't believe in aliens, and they're right. Most people believe drinking bleach is harmful, and they're right.
The Moon Landing is full of nonsense and things that don't add up from start to finish. Read the other threads, because I can't keep repeating them here.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Seraphina on July 28, 2019, 09:08:20 PM
Did we or didn’t we?  (Use Clairol?). Anyone who understands this is my age or older—-or a fan of old tv commercials!  
Does it make any difference to the majority of individual souls?  Not any more than whether she does or does not dye her hair!
If we didn’t go to the moon, then my late uncle was paid close to six figures for building a toy spaceship.  That was A LOT of money for the late 1960s!  
If we did, then it’s an interesting conversation piece.  I can gaze upward and declare, “You know, something with my uncle’s DNA on it is sitting up there!”
I do know neither the money nor the lunar module did anything for his soul.

Maybe God allowed everyone to be self-deceived.  Or maybe He let us really go to the moon.  Either way, He’s in control, not those guys in Houston!  
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: hollingsworth on July 28, 2019, 09:14:35 PM

Buzz Aldrin, the second man on the moon, left the Air Force for a couple of years after his alleged moon venture. He spent time thereafter in a hospital for severe mental illness. They reported publicly that he was being treated for a neck injury.

He left the Service for two years, but came back to the Air Force in 1971. At this time, he was taking one Ritalin tablet a day for a nervous disorder. One has to conclude from some of his own statements that he was struggling with the meaning of reality.

In his book Return to Earth, Aldrin describes an interview he gave to NBC’s Roy Neal at a local Chamber of Commerce banquet near the his new assignment at Edward Air Force Base in CA.

 
Aldrin writes:
“The first question that Roy Neal asked me was, ‘Now that almost two years have gone by, why not tell us how it really felt to be on the moon.?”

At this point, Aldrin nearly falls apart. “My throat went dry and I became dizzy,” he writes. That was, he testifies, the one question he dreaded above all others.

“I remember little more of the interview,” he writes. “When it was all over I stepped down and stood before about 50 Chamber of Commerce members and their wives all waiting for autographs. I signed a few and when the shaking became uncontrollable, I grabbed Joan (his wife) and ran for the door.”

Very strange behavior for an astronaut who had supposedly returned in triumph from the moon’s surface two year earlier.

Aldrin continues: “In the privacy of an alley near the auditorium, I choked back my emotions and quietly wept. Joan stood silently by and when I composed myself, she took me to the nearest bar. I was inconsolable..I was judging myself too harshly… I got rather drunk.”

I think Buzz Aldrin was a West Point graduate. West Point graduates never lie.

 

 
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Matthew on July 28, 2019, 09:17:42 PM
What the notoriously corrupt United States federal government is claiming is to have sent men to the moon in 1969, on the VERY FIRST attempt, even though right here on earth Mt. Everest and the South Pole took NUMEROUS tries before success, allegedly accomplishing this amazing feat with 50 YEAR older technology (a cell phone has ONE MILLION times more computing power than ALL of NASA did in 1969), yet 50 YEARS later NASA can now only send astronauts ONE - THOUSANDTH the distance to the moon, even with 5 DECADES more advancements in rockets and computers.

If Toyota claimed they made a car 50 YEARS ago that could travel 50,000 miles on one gallon of gasoline, yet today their best car can only go 50 miles per gallon, or ONE - THOUSANDTH the distance, would not the forgery of the previous claim be incredibly obvious? If it were not for people's pride and emotional attachment to the 50 YEAR OLD unrepeatable moon landing claim, also with only ONE - THOUSANDTH the distance capable 5 DECADES later, they would otherwise easily recognize this equally preposterous claim as the fraud that it sadly is.

The alleged moon landings are the only technological claim in the entire history of the world, such as the first automobile, airplane, or nuclear power, which was not far surpassed in capability 50 YEARS later, much less not even able to be duplicated by any nation on earth 50 YEARS later. The supposed moon landings are also the only time in history that such claimed expensive technology was deliberately destroyed afterwards (175 BILLION DOLLARS worth), only done so to hide the evidence of the fraud.

Seeing how it is IMPOSSIBLE for technology to go BACKWARDS and today NASA can only send astronauts ONE - THOUSANDTH the distance to the moon as was claimed 50 YEARS ago on the VERY FIRST attempt with 5 DECADES OLDER technology, the only remaining conclusion is that the 1969 claim was a federal government lie. It is that simple and that corrupt.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Clemens Maria on July 28, 2019, 09:27:45 PM
We have photos taken recently of the moon landing sites.  Believing that everyone is lying (many thousands of people) is a form of paranoia.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Matthew on July 28, 2019, 09:46:50 PM
We have photos taken recently of the moon landing sites.  Believing that everyone is lying (many thousands of people) is a form of paranoia.
The pictures are fake.
"everyone" is not lying. Just those who know it's false. There are plenty of good-willed dupes helping propagate the lie, who would NEVER do so if they knew it was a lie.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Clemens Maria on July 28, 2019, 10:38:08 PM
The conspiracy theory is fake.  Your worst fears have been realized.  You have been duped again.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Stanley N on July 28, 2019, 11:13:33 PM
What the notoriously corrupt United States federal government is claiming is to have sent men to the moon in 1969, on the VERY FIRST attempt, ]
It wasn't the first attempt. Much of the mission used knowledge built up through the Mercury program and previous Apollo missions. This included learning from some failures. Also, engineers can design in redundant and backup ways to try doing something, which substantially reduces the chance of failure.

You also reposted something you posted to another thread without even addressing the point. There are several hear who do that, but I had expected better from you.

https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/moon-landings-no-hard-science-knowledge/msg660304/#msg660304

Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Stanley N on July 28, 2019, 11:14:52 PM
The pictures are fake.
What's your evidence?
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Donachie on July 28, 2019, 11:34:21 PM
What's your evidence?
David Percy and Mary Bennett covered it pretty well for me. The radiation on the Moon is intense and would've fogged the pictures up bad. Also the cameras had no view finders and they were wearing those very awkward pressurized gloves, yet all the pictures came out too fine. The shadows at times go at cross angles and there's clear detail evidence of artificial background lighting. Through computer enhancement analysis they even discovered that there was a spotlight in the Apollo Sun. Everything's very tight shots and no pictures of stars or planets either. They say you can't see stars from the Moon!
It's the Freemasons again, hoaxing the folks, imo.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Stanley N on July 28, 2019, 11:45:54 PM
David Percy and Mary Bennett covered it pretty well for me. The radiation on the Moon is intense and would've fogged the pictures up bad. Also the cameras had no view finders and they were wearing those very awkward pressurized gloves, yet all the pictures came out too fine. The shadows at times go at cross angles and there's clear detail evidence of artificial background lighting. Through computer enhancement analysis they even discovered that there was a spotlight in the Apollo Sun. Everything's very tight shots and no pictures of stars or planets either. They say you can't see stars from the Moon!
It's the Freemasons again, hoaxing the folks, imo.
All this has been addressed. Especially the shadows going "different directions" and the lack of stars in the images. You can't get the stars in a picture without a somewhat long exposure, either on the moon or on earth. Try taking a picture of the night sky
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: LaramieHirsch on July 29, 2019, 03:23:22 AM
What the notoriously corrupt United States federal government is claiming is to have sent men to the moon in 1969, on the VERY FIRST attempt, even though right here on earth Mt. Everest and the South Pole took NUMEROUS tries before success, allegedly accomplishing this amazing feat with 50 YEAR older technology (a cell phone has ONE MILLION times more computing power than ALL of NASA did in 1969), yet 50 YEARS later NASA can now only send astronauts ONE - THOUSANDTH the distance to the moon, even with 5 DECADES more advancements in rockets and computers.

If Toyota claimed they made a car 50 YEARS ago that could travel 50,000 miles on one gallon of gasoline, yet today their best car can only go 50 miles per gallon, or ONE - THOUSANDTH the distance, would not the forgery of the previous claim be incredibly obvious? If it were not for people's pride and emotional attachment to the 50 YEAR OLD unrepeatable moon landing claim, also with only ONE - THOUSANDTH the distance capable 5 DECADES later, they would otherwise easily recognize this equally preposterous claim as the fraud that it sadly is.

The alleged moon landings are the only technological claim in the entire history of the world, such as the first automobile, airplane, or nuclear power, which was not far surpassed in capability 50 YEARS later, much less not even able to be duplicated by any nation on earth 50 YEARS later. The supposed moon landings are also the only time in history that such claimed expensive technology was deliberately destroyed afterwards (175 BILLION DOLLARS worth), only done so to hide the evidence of the fraud.

Seeing how it is IMPOSSIBLE for technology to go BACKWARDS and today NASA can only send astronauts ONE - THOUSANDTH the distance to the moon as was claimed 50 YEARS ago on the VERY FIRST attempt with 5 DECADES OLDER technology, the only remaining conclusion is that the 1969 claim was a federal government lie. It is that simple and that corrupt.
I can understand this statement.  Who knows?  I may agree with it in another ten years.  
If Trump or whoever fails to get us up to the moon within the next decade or so, I'll be VERY inclined to think the original moon landing was pure bullshit.  I'll be honest, I simply do not believe I'm in a position to know, and a lot of the critics sound valid.  

That's where I'm at.  
(But damnit, the world is round.  That is a fact I can attest to.)
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Clemens Maria on July 29, 2019, 07:53:37 AM
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/main/index.html (https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/main/index.html)

I’m not talking about photos taken in 1969.  The Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) launched in 2009 photographed the sites. So now all of those people need to be lying too.  So the theory requires that massive numbers of people are in on the conspiracy.  I guess I haven’t been “enlightened” yet.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Clemens Maria on July 29, 2019, 07:56:35 AM
Speaking of Trump doesn’t this moongate thing remind you of Russiagate?  It’s a witch-hunt.  Do the astronauts have to be drowned before they can be exonerated?
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Pax Vobis on July 29, 2019, 09:02:20 AM
Quote
The alleged moon landings are the only technological claim in the entire history of the world, such as the first automobile, airplane, or nuclear power, which was not far surpassed in capability 50 YEARS later, much less not even able to be duplicated by any nation on earth 50 YEARS later. The supposed moon landings are also the only time in history that such claimed expensive technology was deliberately destroyed afterwards (175 BILLION DOLLARS worth), only done so to hide the evidence of the fraud.

I agree 100%, but still, the lie has further problems.  Computers in the 60s were as big as a garage; now they are as small as a wristwatch (and even smaller).  The idea that the destruction of 1960s tech would impede current day tech is ludicrous!  We're not talking about a dying industry, like the making of stained-glass windows, where the destruction of knowledge is damaging because people just aren't making these things anymore.  We're talking about the tech industry; we're talking about NASA; we're talking about the entire industries of the airforce, computing and satellite combined.  These industries have grown exponentially since the 60s.  The tech should be available to where we could build a moon-landing project from scratch, ignoring that the 1960s NASA even existed, and it should be "light years" better.  The tech of the 1960s is so outdated that it doesn't even matter.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Stanley N on July 29, 2019, 11:14:42 AM
The Moon Landing is full of nonsense and things that don't add up from start to finish. Read the other threads, because I can't keep repeating them here.
I agree. I see a lot of nonsense and things that don't add up. The problem is that nearly all of it comes from the people who think the moon landings didn't happen.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Clemens Maria on July 29, 2019, 11:18:36 AM
Big software companies can't build the software they were selling 20 years ago.  They don't have computers running the versions of the OS that were used to build the software 20 years ago.  In many cases, they don't even know the versions of the libraries that were included in the product.  Did the technology take a step backward?  Of course not!  It just moved on to different things.  Same thing with space tech.  Going to the moon was too expensive.  Johnson wanted to cancel the whole program because he was worried there would be political repercussions for spending so much money on it.  So they landed on the moon 6 times and then they moved on to something else less expensive.  The technology isn't lost.  It was applied to different problems.  This is a witch-hunt.  When we send people back to the moon, you'll find reasons to doubt that it happened.  It won't matter how stupid and ignorant the argument is, you'll believe it because you are paranoid and you can't distinguish what is worthy of belief and what isn't worthy of believe.  Not everything that is worthy of belief turns out to be true but that's life.  We make mistakes and we move on.  We don't become paranoid and think that everyone is trying to fool us.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: homeschoolmom on July 29, 2019, 11:37:18 AM
A lot of people get stuck on this idea that too many people would have to be involved for a hoax like this to work. But in many lines of work everyone stays in their own lane, does their own individual job, and has no idea what's going on above their pay grade. Especially in government. One hand has no idea what the other hand is doing, they are all so compartmentalized it's ridiculous. They just do what they are told and believe what they are told without ever seeing a bigger picture beyond "America!". This alone would reduce the number of people in on the hoax pretty significantly. A lot of people could have contributed to the hoax thinking it's real. Plus how many could have contributed without even knowing they were involved at all. Then you'd have those you can pay off, they are many. Then you'd have those who are committed to the cause, committed to whatever they'd have to gain by perpetrating the hoax. When people are not anchored to God they end up committing themselves to all kinds of crazy, misdirected causes that boggle the mind of a sane person. Power, pride, vanity, fame, money, political clout, bragging rights, these are all in play here and they are intoxicating to the majority.  
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: ProLife on July 29, 2019, 11:47:52 AM
I agree 100%, but still, the lie has further problems.  Computers in the 60s were as big as a garage; now they are as small as a wristwatch (and even smaller).  The idea that the destruction of 1960s tech would impede current day tech is ludicrous!  We're not talking about a dying industry, like the making of stained-glass windows, where the destruction of knowledge is damaging because people just aren't making these things anymore.  We're talking about the tech industry; we're talking about NASA; we're talking about the entire industries of the airforce, computing and satellite combined.  These industries have grown exponentially since the 60s.  The tech should be available to where we could build a moon-landing project from scratch, ignoring that the 1960s NASA even existed, and it should be "light years" better.  The tech of the 1960s is so outdated that it doesn't even matter.
Good point. NASA should not have to work hard and spend years of effort to get us "back" to the moon. A lot of that trail should have been blazed in the 1970s. At most, they should have to replace hundreds of pounds of solid state computer parts with a single (hardened against radiation, extreme cold, and other space conditions) computer like they've been using in low earth orbit for decades. They already have modern computers working in outer space, they're just not very far from earth. Haven't they developed modern computer, navigation systems on the ISS and even unmanned probes? You're right, we're talking about whole industries that have all advanced over the past 50 years. NASA should be able to go to the moon on relatively short notice if we truly went there 6 times in the past.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: ProLife on July 29, 2019, 11:53:21 AM
So they landed on the moon 6 times and then they moved on to something else less expensive.  The technology isn't lost.  It was applied to different problems.  This is a witch-hunt.  When we send people back to the moon, you'll find reasons to doubt that it happened.  It won't matter how stupid and ignorant the argument is, you'll believe it because you are paranoid and you can't distinguish what is worthy of belief and what isn't worthy of believe.  Not everything that is worthy of belief turns out to be true but that's life.  We make mistakes and we move on.  We don't become paranoid and think that everyone is trying to fool us.
NASA has explicitly said they destroyed the technology of the Apollo program. I notice you say "when" we send people back to the moon. As others have pointed out, every US president since 1973 has held out the promise of going back to the moon (and lately they've added: a trip to Mars) as a way to inspire the American people and appear extra presidential and visionary.  Thus far, every last one has failed to deliver. Even Trump might leave office in 1 or 5 years without anyone setting foot on the moon during his tenure. I wouldn't be surprised at all.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Stanley N on July 29, 2019, 11:57:08 AM
A lot of people get stuck on this idea that too many people would have to be involved for a hoax like this to work. But in many lines of work everyone stays in their own lane, does their own individual job, and has no idea what's going on above their pay grade. Especially in government. 
It's not so simple. A LOT of engineers worked on the technology. Let's assume it was all a hoax and most of the engineers didn't know it.

The thing is, even if an engineer was working on a small part, that engineer expected the part to be going into space. It was designed to go into space, from the smallest part to the integration. And they didn't just design on paper - they build parts and prototypes and tested them to make sure they could go into space. And some pieces were designed to be on the moon. (Parts of the lunar lander structure were designed for 1/6 gravity.) And not only that, but they expected this ship to be carry people, so they designed it to protect people in the space environment. That added several systems for life support (breathing, food, waste disposal) that engineers really designed, tested and built. The designs were for taking people into space and to the moon.

And we do have the blueprints and some remaining parts. Engineers today can verify that, as designed, it had the specifications for taking people into space and to the moon. If any of this were not up to specification, a lot of engineers would have noticed in the last 50+ years. That hasn't been the case. (And there are engineers outside the US.) 

So you're left with nearly all the engineers spending their time designing, building and testing something that could go to the moon (so the blueprints and remaining parts look right), but then building something else that couldn't. 

If this was all a hoax, it would have been simpler to just, you know, go to the moon.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Pax Vobis on July 29, 2019, 11:57:28 AM
Quote
Going to the moon was too expensive.  Johnson wanted to cancel the whole program because he was worried there would be political repercussions for spending so much money on it.  So they landed on the moon 6 times and then they moved on to something else less expensive. 
Great story, except it's contrary to the facts.  The US did indeed spend a ton of $ on the moon landing project, but it was never completed.  They faked the actual landings so that they could justify the expense to the public, and then get the budget increased!  Could the US have eventually landed on the moon, with 60s and 70s tech?  Probably, but it makes no difference.  The goal of landing on the moon had 2 purposes - to justify the cost and existence of NASA and to give the public a "hooray, America is awesome and better than russia!" moment during the cold war.
.
The fact that NASA's budget has ballooned since the 70s, with billions upon billions (maybe trillions) spent on many projects which are highly classified gives us the motive the deep state had in the crime of the fake landings.  The opportunity was the fact that a Hollywood studio type atmosphere could fake the landing because most americans would watch the event on tvs that were low resolution and also, most americans trusted their govt to a large degree, being we were only a few years removed from JFK, who was probably the last president worth trusting to some degree.
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NASA didn't have a less expensive budget after the moon landings, they had a LARGER budget.  They just knew that the moon hoax would satisfy the public and let them work in peace for a few decades, so that they could come up with the next fantastical goal - mars.  Such a project would take decades to accomplish, so NASA could justify their increased $ and secrecy.
  
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Stanley N on July 29, 2019, 12:02:07 PM
NASA should be able to go to the moon on relatively short notice if we truly went there 6 times in the past.
The main limitation is a sufficiently powerful rocket. There just isn't a currently operational, human-rated launch system capable of getting enough mass up there. (And NASA seems o be designing for Mars, which does add several new issues that the Apollo program didn't deal with, including people spending years in open space.)
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Stanley N on July 29, 2019, 12:11:30 PM
NASA has explicitly said they destroyed the technology of the Apollo program. I notice you say "when" we send people back to the moon. As others have pointed out, every US president since 1973 has held out the promise of going back to the moon (and lately they've added: a trip to Mars) as a way to inspire the American people and appear extra presidential and visionary.  Thus far, every last one has failed to deliver. Even Trump might leave office in 1 or 5 years without anyone setting foot on the moon during his tenure. I wouldn't be surprised at all.
"destroyed" is a bit misleading. The Apollo program was shut down by a change of administration, and so the people with operational knowledge moved to other jobs, and the machine shops making parts retooled to do other work.
NASA will keep working on projects like Orion and SLS, but the Trump administration has not to my knowledge committed the funds necessarily to get these programs operational for a Mars or Moon mission under his administration. I would be shocked if it happened - even with a second term.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Mr G on July 29, 2019, 12:21:21 PM
Great story, except it's contrary to the facts.  The US did indeed spend a ton of $ on the moon landing project, but it was never completed.  They faked the actual landings so that they could justify the expense to the public, and then get the budget increased!  Could the US have eventually landed on the moon, with 60s and 70s tech?  Probably, but it makes no difference.  The goal of landing on the moon had 2 purposes - to justify the cost and existence of NASA and to give the public a "hooray, America is awesome and better than russia!" moment during the cold war.
.
The fact that NASA's budget has ballooned since the 70s, with billions upon billions (maybe trillions) spent on many projects which are highly classified gives us the motive the deep state had in the crime of the fake landings.  The opportunity was the fact that a Hollywood studio type atmosphere could fake the landing because most americans would watch the event on tvs that were low resolution and also, most americans trusted their govt to a large degree, being we were only a few years removed from JFK, who was probably the last president worth trusting to some degree.
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NASA didn't have a less expensive budget after the moon landings, they had a LARGER budget.  They just knew that the moon hoax would satisfy the public and let them work in peace for a few decades, so that they could come up with the next fantastical goal - mars.  Such a project would take decades to accomplish, so NASA could justify their increased $ and secrecy.
  
I remember reading something many years ago that the "Space Race" was actually about perfecting the rocket technology for delivering atomic warheads. As it was easier to get funds to send a man to the moon than to send nukes to Russia, but the rocket can do both.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Pax Vobis on July 29, 2019, 12:30:10 PM
Quote
It's not so simple. A LOT of engineers worked on the technology. Let's assume it was all a hoax and most of the engineers didn't know it.

The thing is, even if an engineer was working on a small part, that engineer expected the part to be going into space. It was designed to go into space, from the smallest part to the integration. And they didn't just design on paper - they build parts and prototypes and tested them to make sure they could go into space. And some pieces were designed to be on the moon. (Parts of the lunar lander structure were designed for 1/6 gravity.) And not only that, but they expected this ship to be carry people, so they designed it to protect people in the space environment. That added several systems for life support (breathing, food, waste disposal) that engineers really designed, tested and built. The designs were for taking people into space and to the moon.

And we do have the blueprints and some remaining parts. Engineers today can verify that, as designed, it had the specifications for taking people into space and to the moon. If any of this were not up to specification, a lot of engineers would have noticed in the last 50+ years. That hasn't been the case. (And there are engineers outside the US.) 

So you're left with nearly all the engineers spending their time designing, building and testing something that could go to the moon (so the blueprints and remaining parts look right), but then building something else that couldn't. 

If this was all a hoax, it would have been simpler to just, you know, go to the moon.
You're missing the point. 
Did 1,000s of engineers build a working lunar shuttle?  Yes. 
Did 1,000s of engineers design all kinds of systems that met specifications they were given for working on the moon?  Yes. 
Did 1,000s of engineers design all kinds of astronaut clothing that met specifications they were given  so that men could survive on the moon?  Yes.
Did 1,000s of engineers understand/test the specifications they were given?  No.
.
The top scientists at NASA are the ones who calculated the "big picture" of what it would take to launch, land, survive and return from the moon.  These specifications were then funneled down to the 1,000s of engineers who built all the moon stuff.  The 1,000s of engineers relied on the specs they were given, or at least they relied on the underlying assumptions.
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As the old comparison goes, going to the moon IS actual rocket science, so this type of engineering is highly complex.  Most engineers can't comprehend it and aren't trained to.  You can't go to your local college and major in rocket science.  Only those highly trained genius scientists "at the top" understood it and were tasked with putting together the overall plan.  It would've only taken a few engineers to convince everyone else that "this will work".
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Think about all the manpower and people it takes to build a skyscraper.  Yet how many architects actually draw up the plans for the design?  Less than 5?  Then add a few more people to account for the head construction engineers (who have some engineering experience).  Everyone else has NO IDEA how to build a building.  They are experts on the detailed process, not the overall build.  So out of 1,000s of concrete guys, plumbers, electricians, steel workers, etc, etc who build buildings, less than 10 people are responsible for the design and structural integrity of the building.  And this is for a building project that has been done 1,000s of times.  There are skyscrapers everywhere
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How fewer people would completely understand what it would take to go to the moon for the first time?  How many engineers could look at all the calculations of astro-physics, math and engineering and completely understand it enough to point out a problem with the theoretical concepts and assumptions of the overall plan?  A handful.  Everyone else, 99% of the people working on the project, had to trust the underlying assumptions and theory because they weren't experts. 
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NASA may very well have had the capability to land on the moon, but they did not.  The evidence proves otherwise.  Did 1,000s of engineers build what they THOUGHT was moon-capable equipment?  Yes.  Was it actually capable of fulfilling the project?  We'll never know.
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It's easily explained how 1,000s of people can be misled to believe a lie and to be part of a big hoax.  It all starts with a false premise or a false set of facts.  Any conclusion, no matter how logical, is false if the starting premise is wrong.  Could a handful of people have orchestrated all of these constructions projects and fooled 1,000s of engineers to build equipment that they thought would work?  Quite easily.

Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: hollingsworth on July 29, 2019, 12:35:24 PM
PV: 
Quote
The US did indeed spend a ton of $ on the moon landing project, but it was never completed.  They faked the actual landings so that they could justify the expense to the public, and then get the budget increased!  Could the US have eventually landed on the moon, with 60s and 70s tech?  Probably, but it makes no difference.  The goal of landing on the moon had 2 purposes - to justify the cost and existence of NASA and to give the public a "hooray, America is awesome and better than russia!" moment during the cold war.

You've got it.  Apollo was a total hoax.  Now NASA, late in the game,  has released high resolution photos, allegedly of he original landing surface.  Ever hear of photoshop?  They never give up.  Yes, Apollo is the queen of all the American-generated hoaxes, fαℓѕє fℓαgs and black ops. I'm beginning to think, as Bill Kaysing once stated, that America herself is a hoax. I
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Pax Vobis on July 29, 2019, 12:45:46 PM
Quote
I remember reading something many years ago that the "Space Race" was actually about perfecting the rocket technology for delivering atomic warheads. As it was easier to get funds to send a man to the moon than to send nukes to Russia, but the rocket can do both.
Great point.  And let's not forget all the low orbiting satellites that NASA developed, which have been shot up into space in the 1,000s and which are used to create the surveillance state, GPS, internet, and drone tech.  Add in what you describe, that NASA has also developed much tech for the military industrial complex.  What other top secret projects has NASA worked on - facial recognition?  Crowd control weapons?  Biometric chipping tech for the antichrist?  The coming 5G surveillance state?  Let's not forget weather control weapons.
.
We can easily see that NASA's moon hoax was the tool to get Americans, in an appeal to their nationalistic pride, to fund their future Orweillian, big brother nightmare.  Or worse, the nuclear weapons they will use for population "pruning" in WW3. 
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: homeschoolmom on July 29, 2019, 12:55:31 PM
Thanks Pax, that is a much more detailed point than I could make. That money was going somewhere, why not put real people to work with real jobs and real paychecks that they could spend on more stuff to stimulate the economy. And they really thought they were building something to go to the moon. But how many people actually saw it happen with their own eyes? 99.9999% of this large number of people who worked on the project relied on belief. This is not proof.  


Quote
If this was all a hoax, it would have been simpler to just, you know, go to the moon.

What if it isn't? What if they gave it a real shot and realized it really wasn't simpler to just go to the moon?
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: hollingsworth on July 29, 2019, 03:00:13 PM
Stanley:
Quote
I have patiently explained each of these things when they have appeared. But now we have the same people just repeating the same things, as if they have never been addressed either here or elsewhere on the internet. And while I was doing Sunday liturgy and family things, someone has apparently given me 23 downvotes in less than a day.
Thank you, Stanley for your patience.  May God bless you for it.  I wasn't one of those who gave you a thumbsdown vote.  You are at least giving it all you've got and deserve some recognition for that.  Please don't leave the discussion, because 5micro probably couldn't get along without you.

BTW, are you, or have you ever been a part of NASA?  Do you have any close relatives in NASA, or in any other NASA-related aerospace industries or companies?
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: claudel on July 29, 2019, 03:58:56 PM
I agree. I see a lot of nonsense and things that don't add up. The problem is that nearly all of it comes from the people who think the moon landings didn't happen.

Amen. The upside of this state of affairs is that it demonstrates yet again God's enduring love for stupid people, especially those whose stupidity does not embrace rejection of the True Faith.

On a personal note, I hope that you, Stanley N, won't allow yourself to become overly fretted by the down votes. Think of them as battle scars stemming from honorable combat in a good cause. Remember, too, that few things are as irritating as evidence and rationality to those incapable of grasping them.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: hollingsworth on July 29, 2019, 09:12:37 PM

Stanley, I already asked you about your own possible links the American space industry. Tell me, sir, do you have any skin in the game?
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: SimpleMan on July 29, 2019, 10:03:21 PM
If we didn't go to the moon, how to explain this?

http://www.arrl.org/eavesdropping-on-apollo-11 (http://www.arrl.org/eavesdropping-on-apollo-11)

Never underestimate a ham radio operator with some aluminum, nylon rope, chicken wire, and an old radio.  I'm just a simple Technician Class operator and I've put together a few contraptions myself (admittedly, not as elaborate as what is described here).
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: hollingsworth on July 30, 2019, 03:29:26 PM

The fallout from the fake Apollo moon landing program has become a bit more problematic for me than just the simple rejection of an alleged moon landings narrative. One could look at that fabulous boondoggle in isolation and conclude, simply, that it wasn’t true; then go on from there.

 
But some of us, I think, are forced to face some unsettling thoughts about the very country which gave birth to NASA and Apollo, and, most recently the nascent Orion program.

It is rather unnerving to confront the possibility that America herself, at her core and in her essence, from her very foundations, may be as starkly fake and phony as the Apollo project was. It is altogether possible, in my mind anyway, that a country, capable of creating a hoax as immense and (diabolically) complex as Apollo, could just as easily have manufactured many other elaborate hoaxes any time and any where along the spectrum of its 250 year history.

We live in a country whose government has repeatedly lied to its people.
Our cινιℓ ωαr was not essentially about freeing the slaves. It was, historians tell us, about “preserving the Union,” which, upon closer examination, had little to do with upholding any inviolable statute or indelible precept of the US Constitution.

Our government lied to us about the sinking of the Maine. We did it to ourselves in order to finally finish off a Spanish presence in the West and elsewhere in the world, and replace it with the emerging American empire.

It lied to us about the real reasons we entered WWI, in the face of earlier assurances from the then president that our boys would never be sent into a foreign war.

It lied to us about the real reasons we sent Marines into Latin America early in the 20th century. We did it on behalf of huge corporations, particularly United Fruit. Gen. Smedly Butler explained the real reason best:
“I spent most of my time being a high class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. “

American government lied to us about Pearl Harbor. It was not a surprise attack by the Japanese. We goaded them into it. Our president and his cabinet provoked them into it. Our leaders were itching for war. We knew exactly where the Japanese fleet was from the moment it left the Kuriles and headed slowly south towards Hawaii. It was a day of infamy, alright- a day of American infamy.

Our govt. in tandem with the British, lied to us about the nαzι Blitzkrieg. It was not an unprovoked attack by Hitler. The RAF started carpet bombing German cities and civilian populations months before German bombs struck London.

Vietnam was a lie from beginning to end. The Bay of Tonkin incident was a supposed event which, we know now, never occurred. Pres. Johnson and the rest of his criminal cabal knew it from the start.

 
Our govt. lied to us about WMDs. No one now believes that Sadam had them. No way! The US needed a manufactured excuse for starting a war there on behalf of Israel. Iraq was never a “national security threat.”

911 was obviously a lie. No building came down due to the hijacking of commercial jets by 19 Arab terrorists, which subsequently rammed into the Twin Towers. Bldg. 7 came down obviously from controlled demolition from within. Most likely, the CIA in tandem with Mossad, got that all going.

Sandy Hook was a shameless lie and an elaborate hoax, generated by the US government using lots of crisis actors, in a futile attempt to take guns out of the hands of average law-abiding American citizens.

This whole thing about Trump colluding with the Russians and alleged obstruction of justice charges come to us courtesy of some of the most powerful agencies of American government, including most of the intelligence apparatus. It is a bald faced lie!

Now Iran has become the new Boogey Man threatening America. They tell us endless lies about Iran’s alleged threat to our interests and those of Israel. We need to act now, they warn!

So serious has the whole thing become for me that I am finding it difficult to remove my hat and place my hand over my heart when the Pledge of Allegiance is recited at a public event.

That is not a huge statue of the Virgin Mary, torch uplifted, which greets visitors to our shores. No, that was a gift from French revolutionaries, depicting the Masonic goddess of reason, or liberty, or some such thing.

Maybe the Iranians are right. Maybe America is, in fact, ‘The Great Satan.’ A few chapters of the Apocalypse might even allude to it. Babylon the Great, the Scarlet Whore... These two graphic depictions alone seem to share some of the same characteristics of the great American empire.

Theodore Drieser, I think, told us that the business of America is business. Apollo was an American business venture on a scale never achieved or imagined before. It was sponsored by the American Govt.. and implemented by huge American aerospace companies and their subsidiaries, with plenty of fawning coverage by the press.   Only America the Great could have pulled it all off on such a gigantic scale. To that extent, the project must at least command awe and grudging respect. It was too big to ignore and eventually forget.

Apollo is the greatest hoax which America has manufactured to date.

 

 

 

 

 



 
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Stanley N on July 30, 2019, 04:03:44 PM
The fallout from the fake Apollo moon landing program
So it really doesn't matter that people have refuted all the jootube videos you have presented?
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: claudel on July 31, 2019, 03:18:37 AM
… But some of us, I think, are forced to face some unsettling thoughts about the very country which gave birth to NASA and Apollo, and, most recently the nascent Orion program.

So serious has the whole thing become for me that I am finding it difficult to remove my hat and place my hand over my heart when the Pledge of Allegiance is recited at a public event.

Apollo is the greatest hoax which America has manufactured to date.

Dear Holly,

Your list of deceptions, many of them truly Satanic in aim and scope, is certainly a good one,* and I sincerely congratulate you on your perspective. I differ with you only regarding your inclusion of the Apollo Project and, in particular, the Apollo 11 moon landing, whose half-century anniversary has been the proximate spur to this and other threads.

I was two months shy of twenty-four when the landing took place. But being a Vietnam vet (though definitely not by choice) and having just eight weeks prior to July 21 been released from the army, I was far from being inattentive to my surroundings or in a particularly deceivable frame of mind.

Nothing I've seen, heard, read, or otherwise experienced in the past fifty years has led me to discredit the evidence my senses provided back then.**

I could go on in this vein, but it wouldn't serve a purpose, would it? Your mind is made up.

You really should understand, however, that there are a great many people, people who are as cognizant as you are of the empire of lies that engulfs us all, who are not prepared to count Apollo and the rest of the space program as one more stone on the mountain of deception.

Let me suggest, too, that the fact that far more than half of the people connected with the space program were not NASA or other government employees—a state of affairs that our masters would not tolerate today, need I add?—ought to get you and the few other thoughtful scoffers to consider rethinking your categorical dismissal of a body of hard data, docuмentary evidence, and individual and corporate testimony that may without exaggeration be termed overwhelming.

Lastly, someone ought to say for the record that Stanley N has done a very fine job of presenting supporting data from the perspective of an informed and technically knowledgeable observer. Surely nothing he has written, here or elsewhere, has been of such a nature as to merit the unworthy implication, made by you and a few others, that he is some sort of stooge. Indeed, in some instances—not yours, happily—the sneers and insults give off the sulfurous stench of an envious hatred of learning by those who arrogantly cling to ignorance.

Two brief concluding comments: (1) pledging allegiance to the flag nowadays involves so many necessary mental reservations that one might feel sympathy with Colin Kaepernick et alii were the football players in question not such jerks and clowns; and (2) Calvin Coolidge made the remark you attribute to Dreiser; whether he thought the situation he described was a good thing is open to question.
__________________
* The only one of any consequence missing is of course the biggest one of all, the titanic fraud that the Jews have dubbed the h0Ɩ0cαųst expressly to show their contempt for the One True h0Ɩ0cαųst of Christ on the Cross. Fortunately, very few people here need persuading on that topic!

** You may have seen something I wrote on another thread several months ago—namely, that my older brother was one of a dozen or so men who designed and developed the engine of the Apollo 11's command module—but that was not something I knew at the time. Indeed, I learned of it only about twenty-five years later. As was true of a great many people involved with the space program, especially scientists and engineers, my brother was an exceptionally tight-lipped guy. At eighty-five, he still is, God bless him.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: SeanJohnson on July 31, 2019, 05:36:15 AM
I go to the moon all the time.

I use very primitive technology that NASA cannot comprehend.

I have video from some of my trips there.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: rum on July 31, 2019, 07:40:09 AM
Apollo astronauts responding to the hoax proponents: https://www.bitchute.com/video/lmv0YXdIgB7y/

I like Duke's response best.

One thing that isn't mentioned enough is that all the major moon hoax proponents are h0Ɩ0h0αx promoters, including Sibrel.

Curiously I bet most of the astronauts believe in the h0Ɩ0h0αx, though I don't see any of them promoting it, so who knows.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Stanley N on July 31, 2019, 08:44:18 AM
You're missing the point.
...
Think about all the manpower and people it takes to build a skyscraper.  Yet how many architects actually draw up the plans for the design?  Less than 5?  Then add a few more people to account for the head construction engineers (who have some engineering experience).  Everyone else has NO IDEA how to build a building.  They are experts on the detailed process, not the overall build.  So out of 1,000s of concrete guys, plumbers, electricians, steel workers, etc, etc who build buildings, less than 10 people are responsible for the design and structural integrity of the building.  And this is for a building project that has been done 1,000s of times.  There are skyscrapers everywhere.
I think you missed the point. I already addressed this - "even if an engineer was working on a small part, that engineer expected the part to be going into space". Engineering in the US has a fair amount of decentralized responsibility, but it is responsibility none the less.

But let's use your analogy of building a skyscraper. The plumbers may not know about structural integrity, but they know about plumbing, and they know they're doing plumbing for a tall building. If the pump to raise water from ground level is only strong enough to go 100' and the building is 200', some of the plubmers are going to notice and ask the other plumbers if there's another pump at 100'. Similarly if the electricians know it takes 10,000 m of wire to wire a floor, and they are only allocated 20,000 m for 20 floors, they're going to ask someone if a zero got lost. If the concrete guys know it takes 24 hrs for the concrete to set properly and management tells them 6 hrs is fine, they're going to talk with the other concrete guys.

Now I agree, some may not get past wondering. Somewhat more so in cultures with a history of killing people who stand out (China). But with a large number of people, and 50 years to review the work, people would have noticed big problems in the Apollo designs if they existed.

Great story, except it's contrary to the facts.  The US did indeed spend a ton of $ on the moon landing project, but it was never completed.  They faked the actual landings so that they could justify the expense to the public, and then get the budget increased!  
.
The fact that NASA's budget has ballooned since the 70s, with billions upon billions (maybe trillions) spent on many projects which are highly classified gives us the motive the deep state had in the crime of the fake landings.  
 
In absolute dollars, NASA's budget peaked in 1966, then decreased every year to 1976.

Viewed in either inflation-adjusted dollars, or as a percent of the federal budget, aside from a bump in the early 1990s, NASA's budget has decreased since the 1970s.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: SeanJohnson on July 31, 2019, 09:01:00 AM
I heard that the construction industry will have a declining budget for the next 20 years, which will mysteriously cause it to lose the technology to build buildings.

That technology will be lost.

We are all going back to yurts.

:laugh2:
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Stanley N on July 31, 2019, 09:11:59 AM
I remember reading something many years ago that the "Space Race" was actually about perfecting the rocket technology for delivering atomic warheads. As it was easier to get funds to send a man to the moon than to send nukes to Russia, but the rocket can do both.
There is an element of truth to this. If you can put something into orbit, you can drop it out of orbit anywhere, and so deliver ICBMs. When USSR launched Sputnik, it became an element of national security for the US to be able to do the same. But that much only requires the tech for low earth orbit, and the US did that in 1958 (Explorer).

Other elements of the space race - manned space flight and especially satellites - were also within national security needs. But manned flight to the moon? How that helps militarily seems rather more indirect.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Stanley N on July 31, 2019, 09:52:55 AM
I heard that the construction industry will have a declining budget for the next 20 years, which will mysteriously cause it to lose the technology to build buildings.

That technology will be lost.

We are all going back to yurts.

:laugh2:
I heard something similar. There are only 6 working construction supercranes left in the world, and they get destroyed in the process of erecting a super-tall building. The technology to make them is the property of the US Govt, which has made all previous supercranes. These supercranes cost 1% of the US federal budget to make, and Trump has directed the National Architecture and Construction Administration not to make any more. Most of the companies who made the parts and tools for them will be closing shop, though some will probably retool to support building the wall. So even though we have the know-how to build one-off supercranes, we will soon lose the manufacturing chain to actually build another one.
With its reduced budget, the construction industry will focus on moderately tall buildings instead, which don't require a supercrane to construct.
:laugh2:
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Kazimierz on July 31, 2019, 10:04:45 AM
Actually, we have discovered the truth about who actually might have landed on the Moon....... ;) :D (Just had to post this here :P)

(https://imgur.com/vx2atXl.jpg)
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: hollingsworth on July 31, 2019, 03:27:43 PM


Quote
Claudel: You really should understand, however, that there are a great many people, people who are as cognizant as you are of the empire of lies that engulfs us all, who are not prepared to count Apollo and the rest of the space program as one more stone on the mountain of deception.

Thanks, Claudel. You are, no doubt, a sincere individual, who speaks honestly according to his own lights. And I am aware that many people are aware of “the empire of lies that engulfs us all.”

But still, there is a huge gap in our thinking about the Apollo Project.


That your “tight-lipped” brother was one of a dozen who worked on the command module of Apollo 11 is impressive and extremely interesting to me. Does he ever open up to you on the subject? Why is he so “tight-lipped?”

I will say again that I am not a scientist, an aerospace engineer, or a person connected in any way with the space industry, either directly, or through family ties. But about one particularly vocal forum member, the same can not be definitively stated. I have asked Stanley twice to reveal his possible ties to NASA and the aerospace industry. He has thus far not replied.

I am not saying that Stanley does not have knowledge of the Apollo Program and of the technology surrounding it. But he does infer that his knowledge is indisputably correct, and superior to that of his opponents, who are merely conspiracy nutters who rely 100% on Youtube videos for their information. I would remind Stanley and others that there are plenty of qualified scientists and engineers who either dismiss Apollo as an utter hoax, or who have grave doubts about it.

You’re right, I have made up my mind. The only thing that gives me the briefest pause are the testimonies of some still living Apollo astronauts who will swear on a stack of Bibles that they went to the moon.

 
That is the human factor, and one not so easily dealt with. Human beings are extremely complex creatures, subject to all kinds of behavioral conditioning and vicissitudes throughout life. It would be entirely possible, in my mind anyway, to channel lies through individuals, who under normal conditions, are impeccably honest, for whom any lie is anathema.

But even in that pool of Apollo astronauts, there are those individuals who seem to give the lie to the testimonies of others among them.

Astronaut Gus Grissom, for example. On several occasions he expresses what can only be interpreted as (almost) total disdain for the Apollo Project. He has no confidence in the program at all, it seems. He even hangs a lemon on his lunar module simulator to show his disgust. One month before the Apollo 1 launch(?), in January of 1967, he’s a dead man, along with two of his companions. Gosh, that’s suspicious!

Neil Armstrong becomes, allegedly, the first man to set foot on the moon in Feb. of 1969. Armstrong comes back, gives a rather brief NASA-sponsored interview to the press, along with his two companions on the flight. All of them seem nervous and ill at ease. Thereafter, until his death in 2005, Armstrong makes himself as invisible as possible, and, we understand he suffers from bouts of mental illness. So also does his partner, Buzz Aldrin, by his own admission.

Then, to top it all off, this hero of the century, rather than be buried in Arlington, VA, where most such military heroes are interred, his ashes are scattered over the Pacific. This is just strange!

 
Then there’s James Irwin, commander of the Apollo 15 lunar module. He has a history of heart problems, admittedly. But in early August, 1991, not many days before his death, he phones Bill Kaysing, staunch moon landing denier, and says they need to talk. He asks Kaysing to call him back later on what Irwin considers a more secure phone line. Kaysing figures that the man wants to get something off his chest. But two or three days later Irwin is dead and no conversation takes place between the two men. How propitious, some might argue.

It is rumored that Apollo 12 astronaut Pete Conrad wants to go public on the fake moon landings back in 1999, the 30th anniversary of that mission. He never does. Conrad is killed in a motorcycle accident one week before the event. Very weird!

Again, Claudel, almost everything I’ve read, heard and viewed about the Apollo Missions leads me to believe that they really never happened. But the human angle must be factored in. There are some puzzling, not fully explained, human responses for which I have no answer yet, unless one wants to pursue the Manchurian Candidate angle.

 But some of the elliptical remarks made by certain NASA officials in recent times serve as clinchers for me. I understand plain English. And in plain English they tell me that 1) all the Apollo technology has been lost and can’t be recovered; and 2) NASA has never gotten a manned space craft out of lower earth orbit. End of story for me.

 


 

 
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Stanley N on July 31, 2019, 11:38:32 PM
I am not saying that Stanley does not have knowledge of the Apollo Program and of the technology surrounding it. But he does infer that his knowledge is indisputably correct, and superior to that of his opponents, who are merely conspiracy nutters who rely 100% on Youtube videos for their information. I would remind Stanley and others that there are plenty of qualified scientists and engineers who either dismiss Apollo as an utter hoax, or who have grave doubts about it.
I think you might have me confused with someone else. You are more than welcome to verify whatever info I provide. Most if not all of this is on the internet, available to everyone, though I have tried to provided links for the stuff that's more difficult to find addressed specifically.

I'm sympathetic to where you're coming from. Newspapers get facts wrong all the time. I went through a period when I didn't believe anything unless I saw it myself, but I eventually found that unworkable. It defeats parts of apologetics including the natural motives for credibility of the Faith. But I couldn't even decide whether to buy one car make over another if I didn't have some level of trust in the reports about safety, reliability and maintenance - things I could not verify myself unless I owned the vehicle for some length of time. Trust means that these reports in general are trustworthy, though details may be wrong.

So yes, on the whole, I find the NASA reports and data trustworthy in the same way.

You also ask if I have any connection to NASA. Would it matter? If so, why, and if not, why ask? I suspect whatever I might say would distract the discussion. I would rather focus on evidence. The identity of X was not revealed in the CCCC thread for a similar reason.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Syracuse on August 01, 2019, 11:58:01 AM
"Moon Landing" was one of the three biggest lies of the 20th century.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: hollingsworth on August 01, 2019, 03:16:35 PM

Quote
Stanley: You also ask if I have any connection to NASA. Would it matter? If so, why, and if not, why ask? I suspect whatever I might say would distract the discussion. I would rather focus on evidence. The identity of X was not revealed in the CCCC thread for a similar reason.

 
OK, Stanley, so you’re going to hide behind X of CCCC fame. He hasn’t revealed his identity either, (though he said he would at the right time.) You, obviously, plan to do the same. So we are deprived of knowledge which might help some of us determine your real credentials. So, yes, it does matter.

I’ll simply assume that you have some kind of pedigree. I’ll ask you merely to comment on one tiny aspect, a specific event touching the Apollo 13 saga. Surely you can help clear up one little matter for me.
Since I am apparently numbered among the conspiracy nutters, who can only fall back on the information provided by an occasional youtube video, please, with your much greater and far ranging collection of knowledge and data, explain to me a seeming contradiction in the NASA record.

Let me set this up in an admittedly awkward manner. I have no formal training, and will probably misrepresent or screw up some of the details. But please bear with me.

The Apollo 13 crew makes it to the moon, or within striking distance of the Moon. Suddenly it all goes kaablooey. An oxygen tank explodes in the command module, or is otherwise disabled. Battery power is running out, and the water supply low. They have only enough power, (12 Amps) to run a kitchen blender, and that won’t last long. What do they do?

Well, to make a long story short, they shimmy their way up into the lunar landing module (LEM). That vehicle is still attached to the third stage of the Saturn rocket because the actual lunar landing never materializes and has to be aborted for the reasons explained.

The LEM is a rickety affair, a patchy looking piece of junk overlaid with the equivalent of multiple layers of Reynolds Wrap, (or is it mylar?). Total thickness of this dubious fabric, we are told, does not exceed 12 thousandths of an inch. With a little effort, one can poke one’s finger through the material.
Nevertheless, this is the tiny vehicle our valiant astronauts must now occupy and navigate 200,000 plus miles through space before splashing down on earth. Designed originally for two men, it now has three men crammed into its tiny quarters.

Leaving aside all the potential, (and obvious) radiation hazards in deep space, let’s focus only on the temperatures outside the capsule’s thin barrier, and inside the same. That’s the issue the video cited below addresses.

The ever ebullient and confident NASA astronaut Alan Bean, who allegedly walked the Moon’s surface on the Apollo 12 mission, tells us that temperatures, when hurdling through space, can soar to 250 degrees F. He should know. He’s been there, he says. Bean dies in 2018, so is not around to repeat the numbers.

NASA makes a video docuмentary about Apollo 13, as well. In this docuмentary we hear from NASA Project Manager, Gene Kranz, and at least one other experienced astronaut. They tell us that temperatures on board the LEM plummet to 34 degrees. That’s a 280 degree plus discrepancy in the two tales. So how are the astronauts keeping warm? Or, how are they keeping cool, as the case may be?
We assume that the LEM is probably not going to provide much protection from extreme space temperatures. It’s interior is separated only by a very thin outer skin. After all, this vehicle was constructed for a relatively short descent to the Moon’s surface, not for a 200,000 mile journey through space.

 
The video provided is admittedly pretty badly made and edited. It contains a view gratuitous obcenities, as well. Yet it does provide the recorded testimonies of both Alan Bean and Gene Kranz, and it’s pretty obvious that these two are not on the same page. Can you explain the discrepancy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3di6odvdNZk

 
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Stanley N on August 02, 2019, 10:46:57 AM
Yet it does provide the recorded testimonies of both Alan Bean and Gene Kranz, and it’s pretty obvious that these two are not on the same page. Can you explain the discrepancy?
The NASA mission report on Apollo 13 says it got colder, estimated at 45-50 oF. See page G-3.
https://history.nasa.gov/alsj/a13/A13_MissionOpReport.pdf

It's not clear to me what Alan Bean is talking about. I think he was talking about the LM on the moon. The LM was designed for the moon surface and the relatively short trips to and from the CM.

Temperature would rise or fall based on whether there is net heat in or out. Heat in includes the sun and heat from the equipment and astronauts, and (on the moon) radiation from the moon surface. Heat out includes natural radiation as well as cooling systems. The cooling systems were designed to expel enough heat to keep a balance of incoming and outgoing under ordinary circuмstances. 

If the cooling system was needed and wasn't running, then the temperature would increase as Bean says - if all other heat sources stayed the same. But the heat sources were not the same in Apollo 13 after the explosion.

Or perhaps Bean was just mistaken. People do make mistakes sometimes.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: hollingsworth on August 02, 2019, 01:07:21 PM

Quote
Stanley:
It's not clear to me what Alan Bean is talking about. I think he was talking about the LM on the moon. The LM was designed for the moon surface and the relatively short trips to and from the CM….

 
Or perhaps Bean was just mistaken. People do make mistakes sometimes.

Indeed. The LM, as you say was designed for short trips, not for 200,000 mile plus trips. Yet, these three astronauts spent three days in space in a flimsy, virtually unprotected, LM (LEM) in a totally hostile environment for which the vehicle had never been designed. They were huddled together on this craft, shorn, apparently, even of their space suits. But they survived unscathed through it all.

Kelly Smith, one of NASA’s new generation, tells us that the future Orion has to be “one tough space craft” in order to navigate through the hostile environment of deep space. He doesn’t ignore the Van Allen belts either, “an area of dangerous radiation,” he says. In fact, Smith continues, we have to go through them twice, once going and once coming back. The new, Orion-focused NASA takes the Van Allen Belts very seriously.

But heck, what’s the worry? 12 Apollo astronauts did it six times, using far inferior Apollo technology. They traveled through the belts easily, going and coming. Amazingly, the Apollo 13 crew apparently passed through them one way in what amounted to little more than a glorified, spangled pup tent. So what’s all the fuss, now, NASA?

Alan Beam certainly wasn’t worried. If he passed through these belts, he didn’t even know it. In fact, Bean had to be educated as to what the Van Allen Belts really are. He apparently had no idea where in lower earth orbit they began, or where their outer limits ended. Nor did he seem to appreciate the dangers they posed. But, hey, if these belts extend 36,000 above the earth’s surface, he was good. Because he and the others traveled far beyond them, by golly!

Yes, Stanley, I would have to echo your (suspicion?) (suggestion?) that Bean might have been just plain mistaken. That is putting it rather mildly from my perspective. I hesitate to say that he was intentionally lying. There is, I’m afraid, a human factor that plays into all of this, subject, possibly, to sinister, invisible mind-altering forces. And they’re scary. Because I'll tell you this, Stanley, the entire Apollo narrative does not add up.

 
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Stanley N on August 02, 2019, 04:34:41 PM
Indeed. The LM, as you say was designed for short trips, not for 200,000 mile plus trips. Yet, these three astronauts spent three days in space in a flimsy, virtually unprotected, LM (LEM) in a totally hostile environment for which the vehicle had never been designed. They were huddled together on this craft, shorn, apparently, even of their space suits. But they survived unscathed through it all.
I said "The LM was designed for the moon surface and the relatively short trips to and from the CM". 

First, we were talking about heat transfer, and second, the "short trips" are short in time. Nevertheless, the LM was designed to hold the astronauts on those short trips in space. 

On the moon, the LM would have residual heat from the rockets. The lunar surface would be radiating heat. They did land at lunar dawn, but it was still hot, and they knew this from previous unmanned probes. That's why the astronaut suit included insulated EV shoes. On the other hand, the LM was wrapped in reflective multi-layer thermal insulation, so it was protected from the heat of the sun and lunar surface to some degree.
https://airandspace.si.edu/multimedia-gallery/4857640jpg
https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-Lunar-Landing-Module-look-like-it-is-wrapped-in-golden-aluminium-foil
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-layer_insulation

After the explosion on Apollo 13, they used the LM, but they didn't have the heat incoming from the moon surface (whatever amount that would be), or from the rockets, and they turned off a lot of the equipment so it was not generating heat either.
Title: Military security?/Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: AlligatorDicax on August 02, 2019, 05:01:08 PM

There is an element of truth to this. If you can put something into orbit, you can drop it out of orbit anywhere, and so deliver ICBMs.  When USSR launched Sputnik, it became an element of national security for the US to be able to do the same.  But that much only requires the tech for low earth orbit, and the US did that in 1958 (Explorer).

The U.S.A. actually had the necessary technology before the Soviet launch of Sputnik, but Pres. Dwight "Ike" Eisenhower [★] initially insisted that whatever rocket was used by the U.S.A. to put a satellite into orbit must be a civilian development.  He had to be concerned with the sensitivities of the various former Western Allies, now members of NATO.  That required concern about international reaction to a U.S. military launch, known to be based on (ahem! ) German expertise, putting a satellite into orbit.  Alas, poor Ike!   Those attempted civilian-developed launches kept failing.  After Sputnik, Ike changed his mind, bringing in Wernher von Braun's Germans from the openly military Redstone Arsenal (Huntsville, Ala.), and "the Germans" promptly put a U.S. satellite into orbit.


Other elements of the space race - manned space flight

The military-rocket successes continued:
•   suborbital Project-Mercury flights were launched on Redstone rockets [♠];
•   orbital Project-Mercury flights were launched on Atlas rockets; and
•   Project-Gemini flights (2-man capsules) were launched on Titan-II rockets.
All rockets named in this paragraph were repurposed from origins as ICBMs (i.e., military launchers of nuclear warheads).  Starting with Atlas, there was separate manufacturing and quality-assurance for human-rated missiles (i.e., those intended for NASA).


and especially satellites - were also within national security needs.

Yes, indeed: The Soviet Union developed surface-to-air (i.e., antiaircraft) missiles with a high-altitude reach capable of shooting down the high-flying U.S. U-2 reconnaisance jet-plane shortly before the Cuban Missile Crisis (Oct. 1962).  So satellites would have to be relied upon for U.S. national security needs for aerial surveillance in the future.

-------
Note ★: U.S. Pres. Dwight "Ike" Eisenhower earned his U.S. fame & electability as the unconditionally victorious Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, whose responsibilities included the final go/no-go decision on D-Day.  He also was stuck with continually juggling the egos of U.S. Gen. George Patton and English Gen. Wilbert "Monty" Montgomery, keeping each of them productive toward the goal of victory over nαzι Germany.  It was his "farewell address" as president of the U.S. in which he issued a famous warning about the "military-industrial complex",  which he arguably understood far better than any of his successors in the Oval Office.

Note ♠: The Redstone rocket was more-or-less a preliminary member of a line of rocket designs led by Wernher von Braun, which were apparently more commonly called the "Jupiter/Juno family",  which culminated in the Saturn V.  So much for the "on the 1st try" rhetoric argued elsewhere herein in unsuccessful hopes of refuting the reality of the Apollo landings on the Moon.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: hollingsworth on August 02, 2019, 06:40:17 PM

Quote
Stanley:
After the explosion on Apollo 13, they used the LM, but they didn't have the heat incoming from the moon surface (whatever amount that would be), or from the rockets, and they turned off a lot of the equipment so it was not generating heat either.
You lost me. The Apollo 13 astronauts approached the Moon’s surface, I guess. One oxygen tank blew up. They aborted the actual moon landing and started to whiz back home pronto. That meant having to negotiate 200,000 return miles plus in deep space. We’re not talking now about heat generated near or on the Moon, but heat in deep space on the return journey. How much of that distance was spent on the CM before the astronauts decided to climb into the LM, I don’t know. Do you? I assume that much of it was on the LM, that leggy, thinly covered contraption, which they could never operate successfully during simulations on earth, but which seemed to work just fine on the Moon.

Aside from radiation hazards, what was the temperature of deep space during LM’s flight home? Was it, as Project Mgr Gene Kranz supposed, 34 degrees F? Or was it a roaring 250 degrees F as Alan Bean suggested it might be? (I know that you think Bean was talking about the LM on the moon. I don’t think so)
In any case, did the LM have sophisticated climate control capabilities designed to handle both extremes in temperature? Again, I don’t think so, because the astronauts were not planning to spend much time aboard it.

 
But I’m asking you, Stanley, since you imply that you’re in possession of knowledge about things that the average Youtube conspiracy theorist would not have.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Stanley N on August 02, 2019, 07:45:40 PM
You lost me. The Apollo 13 astronauts approached the Moon’s surface, I guess. One oxygen tank blew up. They aborted the actual moon landing and started to whiz back home pronto. That meant having to negotiate 200,000 return miles plus in deep space. We’re not talking now about heat generated near or on the Moon, but heat in deep space on the return journey.
...
But I’m asking you, Stanley, since you imply that you’re in possession of knowledge about things that the average Youtube conspiracy theorist would not have.
There's no secret knowledge here. There's a lot of docuмentation on the internet. The Apollo program was pretty open, certainly compared to something like the Manhattan project.

On the moon, the LM would have had heat remaining from the rockets for maneuvering and landing, heat from running the equipment, and heat from the moon surface. The LM was designed to keep a stable temperature on the moon surface - the primary environment it was designed for. Some of these heat sources were missing when the LM was used on Apollo 13. If the missing heat source are more than what would have been eliminated by the cooling system on the lunar surface, the LM would get lose net heat and get colder.

Talking about the temperature of space is a little misleading. It's a plasma - a gas where the molecules become ionized -  which is normally considered high temperature. In physics terms, temperature relates to how much energy molecules have. As a gas temperature increases, molecules have on average higher kinetic energy - they move at higher speeds. But plasma in space is diffuse - the distance between molecules is greater than it is for a gas on earth. So even though the molecules have high kinetic energy, they don't strike a space ship often enough to transfer much of that kinetic energy. It's the same reason you can put your hands in the air in a 400 degree oven for quite a while before it starts to hurt, but putting your hand in 212 degree boiling water hurts immediately. Water is a lot more dense than air.
Title: Soviets/Re: Military security?/Re: We never went to the Moon [...]
Post by: AlligatorDicax on August 02, 2019, 11:02:29 PM

But manned flight to the moon? How that helps militarily seems rather more indirect.

Sigh.  You've goaded me into a spoiler on my own history project (or should I call it a preview?) [♣]:

The Soviet military had little enthusiasm (even that perhaps an overstatement) for manned space-flight, whether to the moon or not, for exactly such reasons: Did it help them close their ICBM "missile gap" [#] relative to the U.S.A.?  No. On the contrary, it diverted the attention of skilled--or even brilliant--rocket-developers (notably posthumously famous "Chief Designer" Sergei P. Korolev) from military rockets.  They considered rocketry components (e.g. engines) manufactured for the "Space Race" to be more important to be used in military rockets to grow their ICBM stockpile, except that some of those components had design criteria that conflicted with criteria for quantity-oriented manufacturing of ICBMs.  Important perspective is provided by where the Soviet manned-spaceflight program fit into the Soviet government: It was merely an R&D program in the Soviet Strategic Rocket Forces, which was under the command of the Chief Marshall of Artillery.

Soviet political support was provided by the autocratic Premier Nikita Khruschev, mostly because he was happy to announce accomplishments that had propaganda value, and by Korolev's design bureau, who were interested in manned exploration of space, competition or not.  The Soviet interest in propaganda wasn't so much how it was received in the U.S.A., but the impression it made on more-or-less unaligned 3rd-World countries (esp. those situated in strategic places [@],  or possessing strategic natural resources).  Korolev was also politicaly influential enough to secure support for the manned-spaceflight program from Leonid Brezhnev, who had had less interest in it than Khruschev [☭].  It was under Brezhnev that the Soviet Union closed the "missile gap".  After that was accomplished, he preferred to spend the Soviet military budget on expanding conventional (i.e., nonnuclear) forces, notably including the Soviet navy.

-------
Note ♣: AlligatorDicax: "Happy 50th Anniversary! /Re:  Moon Landings - No Hard Science [...] ".  Reply #19 [p. 2] on: July 21, 2019 at 00:58:41.  <https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/we-never-went-to-the-moon-proof/msg660216/#msg660216 (https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/we-never-went-to-the-moon-proof/msg660216/#msg660216)> (topic of actual posting, contrary to what would be expected from the subject text following the ‘/’.

Note #: Contrary to the charges levelled by 1960 presidential candidate John Kennedy against then-V.P. Richard Nixon, it was not the U.S. that was risking its Atomic-Age military security by tolerating an alleged ICBM "missile gap" relative to the Soviet Union, but the Soviets who were actually far behind.  Soviet leaders knew better to believe Kennedy-campaign rhetoric; they were painfully aware that it was they who were far behind.  And they knew that U.S. leaders knew that while Kennedy, Khruschev, et. al., were trying to negotiate a mutually tolerable resolution of the Cuban Missile Crisis (Oct. 1962).

Note ☭: Khruschev (1953--1964) was overthrown in Oct. 1964.  He was considered increasingly erratic; his Cuban adventure was a contributing factor.  He was especially noteworthy as the 1st more-or-less sovereign leader of the Soviet Union who lived to tell about it.  He was provided with a pension and 2 homes.  His power was originally divided into a "collective leadership" of 5 high-ranking leaders, but it was eventually consolidated by Leonid Brezhnev (1964--1982), whose ruled until his own death, holding onto sovereign power despite developing increasingly obvious physical/medical infirmities.

Note @: "Strategic places" are those with potential military importance (e.g., being alongside or astride narrow shipping lanes) that's independent of strategic natural resources.  Even more appealing are those among them that have forms of government that're vulnerable to Marxist agitation, puppetry, or outright take-over, notably monarchies.
Title: Re: Military security?/Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Struthio on August 02, 2019, 11:18:13 PM
After Sputnik, Ike changed his mind, bringing in Wernher von Braun's Germans from the openly military Redstone Arsenal (Huntsville, Ala.), and "the Germans" promptly put a U.S. satellite into orbit.

Why quotes?
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: hollingsworth on August 03, 2019, 01:16:48 PM

Quote
Syracuse: "Moon Landing" was one of the three biggest lies of the 20th century.

It may be the biggest.  The corrupt American empire pulled out all the stops on that one.  There was no way that American exceptionalism was going to lose out to Russia.  Yet, ironically, NASA started using Russian technology, particularly Russian cooling tubes for its massive clunker, the Saturn F1.
The more I read and hear about this gigantic boondoggle, in the wake of its 50th anniversary, the more ashamed I become of my country.
 
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Clemens Maria on August 03, 2019, 01:36:46 PM

.... the more ashamed I become of my country.
It is more profitable to be ashamed of yourself for your own sins.  Why worry about something which you are not responsible for nor do you have any power to change and ultimately you may not even have the knowledge and training to fully understand?  To my knowledge, none of the leading lights of the conspiracy theory have any scientific or space technology training.  It’s probably wise to just not speak about it lest you show everyone how ignorant and foolish you are.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: hollingsworth on August 03, 2019, 09:37:29 PM
Quote
It is more profitable to be ashamed of yourself for your own sins.
You’re right. I accept your mild rebuke. I should be conscious mainly of my own sins, and focus often upon them. Being ashamed of my country should never eclipse the shame I feel for my own sins.
I recognize this, and take to heart your admonition.

Nevertheless, I remind you and other forum members that CI was established for the express purpose of allowing ordinary traditional Catholics like myself to express their opinions on a wide variety of topics and themes. In that regard, I don’t think that I have violated established principles of any CI charter, or the provisions under any such charter.

Perhaps shame for my country is the wrong way of putting it. But as a Christian, I am obligated to be no more than a law abiding citizen, to pray for my leaders, and to obey them to the limits that conscience permits. Beyond that, love for country and patriotic fervor are not necessarily a part of the citizen contract.

What true Catholic can really love a country conceived in Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and born out of Revolution, a country whose foundations are only apparently, or nominally, Christian, but whose guiding Constitution invokes false revolutionary notions of liberty, equality and fraternity? Was not the American Republic so established, and have not Catholic authors like Solange Hertz written about that often? (Solange used to be one of the Society’s favorites. But I don’t think you’ll find her works on many SSPX book store shelves today.)

From the beginning, the Catholic Church in America fell for the same false American revolutionary spirit. She genuflected obediently to it, and swore early, unapologetic allegiance to it. To this day, The American Church has never emerged from the strange American ethos. Even the pope of Rome saw the problem and warned the American Episcopacy to denounce the deceit of Americanism. But I digress.

No, being ashamed is the wrong way to express it. Being disgusted and put off is more like it. America was founded on monumental revolutionary lies and untruth. That’s why today, and through most of her history, she has found it so easy, even natural, to lie to her people

The Moon Hoax is just one more of those lies, albeit perhaps, the biggest, most elaborately conceived and most expensive of them to date. Though 911 might provide some competition for its sheer ingenuity and daring, if nothing else.

Bart Sibrel is a hero of mine. He’s got the guts to do and say what my lack of courage forbids. This is a man, along with others like James Fetzer, Dennis Cimino, and Wolfgang Halbig, just to name a few, who tell the truth, even when speaking that truth might threaten to, or actually, destroy them. These are Americans of whom I am proud. I am certainly not ashamed of them.

Below, find a taped interview done with Sibrel in 2017 on Veritas Radio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oyycrnhddI
Title: "Rocket-science"/Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: AlligatorDicax on August 04, 2019, 04:17:00 PM

As the old comparison goes, going to the moon IS actual rocket science, so this type of engineering is highly complex.  Most engineers can't comprehend it and aren't trained to.  You can't go to your local college and major in rocket science.

Really, now?  You've never heard of the major called aerospace engineering?

Are you ignorant of prerequisite courses for all engineering, which include  physics, calculus, numerical analysis, linear algebra, Laplace transforms (i.e., for differential equations), and thermodynamics?  Most of which are courses for the schedules of underclassmen?


Only those highly trained genius scientists "at the top" understood it and were tasked with putting together the overall plan.  It would've only taken a few engineers to convince everyone else that "this will work".

Absolute nonsense!  Have you ever actively participated in an engineering design review?  Hah!  I'm pretty sure that I know the answer to that question.

You do know, don't you, that trial lawyers characteristically reject engineers from trial juries, because they're famously resistant to being led by lawyerly arguments, and continue to seek "inconvenient truths".  Professional engineers are highly focused on details, so even the numerous engineers who have an introverted personality will question whether "this will work".  Likewise computerists who aren't formally "engineers", especially those who've earned computer-science degrees.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on January 16, 2022, 08:11:14 AM
Buzz Aldrin seems to out himself here:


https://www.tiktok.com/foryou?_d=secCgYIASAHKAESPgo8f8C0SneITj7ixPVrFParKrnItvpGX6EryEnQ9x8ODEK8QrSRdCA0g6WQrWn4HPTSwU85FDSabjGQWsn5GgA%3D&_r=1&checksum=71033258ce81c4fbe6cbadc61f4b3abd3ceb79208156cdb3ea586c501b7bca41&clips_cover_ab=v4&enable_clips=1&is_from_webapp=v1&item_id=7051721165861031214&language=en&preview_pb=0&sec_user_id=MS4wLjABAAAAtmbVg7gzbb3JLXLwaHmJohs3j16SCk12eoGX71AtdFNYBX5MY1jw5efKnzoR3XLM&share_app_id=1233&share_item_id=7051721165861031214&share_link_id=56927A38-1A26-469F-AFE2-CA514CDF2447&source=h5_m&timestamp=1642310965&tt_from=sms&u_code=dbh7m43gc6603m&user_id=6810061276653863942&utm_campaign=client_share&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=sms#/@stoney4life77/video/7051721165861031214
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Ladislaus on January 16, 2022, 10:28:58 AM
There’s a mountain of evidence that the moon landings were faked.  I honestly can’t believe that any thinking person believes that they were real ... unless they have psychological block in the way of seeing the truth.

I can partly understand being opposed to flat earth ... but the moon landing hoax?
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: SeanJohnson on January 16, 2022, 11:04:47 AM
Always doubted it.

Seems like if we could get there in the 60’s, we’d have been there 1,000x since.

There would be outposts and scientific settlements like in Antarctica, etc.

Very much doubt the scientific community would have taken the “been there/done that, one-and-done” approach implicit in the absence of visits since.

And I definitely don’t buy the excuse once offered here that the technology which put us on the moon has been lost, and is irrecoverable.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: DigitalLogos on January 16, 2022, 11:29:15 AM
Required viewing 
https://youtu.be/xciCJfbTvE4
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: Ladislaus on January 16, 2022, 11:49:27 AM
Required viewing

Where I disagree with this video is that they were not even in low earth orbit.  If you look at the shots they took through the window, the cloud patterns were stationary and not moving.  In low earth orbit they were claimed to be moving at 18,000 MPH around the earth.  Clearly the cloud patterns would have moved quickly through the window.  I think they were on the ground and then just looking up at a blue sky through the window.
Title: Re: We never went to the Moon - proof
Post by: DigitalLogos on January 16, 2022, 11:51:57 AM
Where I disagree with this video is that they were not even in low earth orbit.  If you look at the shots they took through the window, the cloud patterns were stationary and not moving.  In low earth orbit they were claimed to be moving at 18,000 MPH around the earth.  Clearly the cloud patterns would have moved quickly through the window.  I think they were on the ground and then just looking up at a blue sky through the window.
Eh, that's how the globbers and heliocentrists reconcile these things. It's still worth watching.

Kind of like how the alien-tards believe we haven't been back because the aliens told us to stay away.