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Author Topic: USA and Monarchy  (Read 3867 times)

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Offline Belloc

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USA and Monarchy
« on: August 06, 2012, 09:14:14 AM »
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  • Curious, as a supporter of Monarchy (or a strong Catholic leader like Morena, Salaazar,etc). Question:

    the USA, with no native nobility, etc-who wold be a monarch? get one from Europe? find one here and make him one?

    Anyone have a sensible sounding plan on this?


    we do unofficially have a monarchy of a few......but,  :scratchchin:
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline brotherfrancis75

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    USA and Monarchy
    « Reply #1 on: August 06, 2012, 02:05:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: Belloc
    Curious, as a supporter of Monarchy (or a strong Catholic leader like Morena, Salaazar,etc). Question:

    the USA, with no native nobility, etc-who wold be a monarch? get one from Europe? find one here and make him one?

    Anyone have a sensible sounding plan on this?


    we do unofficially have a monarchy of a few......but,  :scratchchin:


    Good Mr. Belloc,

    A question after my own heart.

    Firstly, alas, we Americans are not so innocent as not to have our own native nobility.  There is most assuredly an historic American aristocracy formed in the British American colonies throughout the colonial era.  In Boston that most noble gentry was in large measure driven through the streets of Boston with bloody whips by despicable Freemasons into leaky ships and then sent off to Novia Scotia, or in many cases, to drown in the sea on their way to Nova Scotia.  In New York City they flourished magnificently until they were forced to leave with the fleeing ships of the British Navy when those evacuated New York in 1784, if my memory serves me right.

    In our American South our hereditary British gentry was doing very well indeed until that most unfortunate incident that you may recall as our "American cινιℓ ωαr."  The Jacobin Reign of Terror that then arrived with those inexpressibly evil Northern Armies shouldn't need retelling here, but the famous movie "Gone With the Wind" does at least give some mild hint of the Masonic horrors that were then so shamelessly inflicted on our proud Southern gentry.

    America has an historic aristocracy as much as France has one.  But the fate of our American gentry has been much more shameful than the fate of the French one.  Unlike in France, we Americans largely DESTROYED our own nobility and now we are such an immoral and wretched people that we insolently pretend we never had one, apparently to salve our most guilty national conscience as best we can.

    Those Bostonian gentry who were not driven with whips into the sea later formed the heart and soul of the "Boston Brahmins" who figured so prominently in the history of our American Republic.  Along with such embarrassing clowns as Ralph Waldo Emerson, Thoreau and the horrid Walt Whitman there were also many RESPECTABLE Boston gentry who are never lionised in our disgusting contemporary "American" (or Overseas Israeli) schools.

    So pretending that we Americans simply lack an aristocracy is being much too easy on ourselves.  Instead we have a proud Norman gentry descended from the Norman Crusaders of yore and we have been such a singularly ungrateful and insolent nation as to blot them from our guilt-ridden memories.  Or rather we choose to remember only what serves the interests of Freemasons and Communists and are too cowardly and grovelling to do otherwise.  At least the French are much better than that!

    Therefore, keeping in mind what an incomparably guilty and wicked nation we Americans are, the only conceivable "sensible sounding plan" MUST be to rip this hopelessly criminal abomination we call "the American Democracy" to shreds and, a little like wise Solomon, have the Satanic thing cut in two.

    In brief, as we Americans arrogantly continue to think ourselves altogether too good for this world, more competent nations will take up their responsibilities and PARTITION the U.S.A. between them.  Mexico will return to the one true faith as a MEXICAN EMPIRE that will undoubtedly (and most justly) include the American Southwest, Texas and most likely most or all of the former American South.  The more northern remainder of the former "Modern Carthage" will no doubt be absorbed into a growing IMPERIAL EUROPE more or less led by a Moscow-Berlin Axis that will pay short shrift to our American delusions of self-importance.  The German and certain other elements in the U.S. will be altogether able and willing to eagerly assist in this most timely improvement.

    And our own monarch in America will be the white European IMPERATOR ROMANUM over on the Old Continent.  Perhaps in Berlin, perhaps in Moscow, but in any event dependent on Holy Mother Church for his legitimacy and spiritual guidance.  As for what the utterly delusional masses of the godless Great Unwashed may or may not want, truly who gives a "fig"?

    Only what we Catholics want is going to be of any serious importance.  Everyone else will be INFINITELY too lost in their apostate depravity to matter.  Apostasy and gross moral depravity have consequences!  Not least among them is having to lose one's liberties and be subject to better peoples with better sense about them.  

    GOD IS JUST.





    Offline jman123

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    USA and Monarchy
    « Reply #2 on: August 06, 2012, 04:02:51 PM »
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  • Quote from: brotherfrancis75
    Quote from: Belloc
    Curious, as a supporter of Monarchy (or a strong Catholic leader like Morena, Salaazar,etc). Question:

    the USA, with no native nobility, etc-who wold be a monarch? get one from Europe? find one here and make him one?

    Anyone have a sensible sounding plan on this?


    we do unofficially have a monarchy of a few......but,  :scratchchin:


    Good Mr. Belloc,

    A question after my own heart.

    Firstly, alas, we Americans are not so innocent as not to have our own native nobility.  There is most assuredly an historic American aristocracy formed in the British American colonies throughout the colonial era.  In Boston that most noble gentry was in large measure driven through the streets of Boston with bloody whips by despicable Freemasons into leaky ships and then sent off to Novia Scotia, or in many cases, to drown in the sea on their way to Nova Scotia.  In New York City they flourished magnificently until they were forced to leave with the fleeing ships of the British Navy when those evacuated New York in 1784, if my memory serves me right.

    In our American South our hereditary British gentry was doing very well indeed until that most unfortunate incident that you may recall as our "American cινιℓ ωαr."  The Jacobin Reign of Terror that then arrived with those inexpressibly evil Northern Armies shouldn't need retelling here, but the famous movie "Gone With the Wind" does at least give some mild hint of the Masonic horrors that were then so shamelessly inflicted on our proud Southern gentry.

    America has an historic aristocracy as much as France has one.  But the fate of our American gentry has been much more shameful than the fate of the French one.  Unlike in France, we Americans largely DESTROYED our own nobility and now we are such an immoral and wretched people that we insolently pretend we never had one, apparently to salve our most guilty national conscience as best we can.

    Those Bostonian gentry who were not driven with whips into the sea later formed the heart and soul of the "Boston Brahmins" who figured so prominently in the history of our American Republic.  Along with such embarrassing clowns as Ralph Waldo Emerson, Thoreau and the horrid Walt Whitman there were also many RESPECTABLE Boston gentry who are never lionised in our disgusting contemporary "American" (or Overseas Israeli) schools.

    So pretending that we Americans simply lack an aristocracy is being much too easy on ourselves.  Instead we have a proud Norman gentry descended from the Norman Crusaders of yore and we have been such a singularly ungrateful and insolent nation as to blot them from our guilt-ridden memories.  Or rather we choose to remember only what serves the interests of Freemasons and Communists and are too cowardly and grovelling to do otherwise.  At least the French are much better than that!

    Therefore, keeping in mind what an incomparably guilty and wicked nation we Americans are, the only conceivable "sensible sounding plan" MUST be to rip this hopelessly criminal abomination we call "the American Democracy" to shreds and, a little like wise Solomon, have the Satanic thing cut in two.

    In brief, as we Americans arrogantly continue to think ourselves altogether too good for this world, more competent nations will take up their responsibilities and PARTITION the U.S.A. between them.  Mexico will return to the one true faith as a MEXICAN EMPIRE that will undoubtedly (and most justly) include the American Southwest, Texas and most likely most or all of the former American South.  The more northern remainder of the former "Modern Carthage" will no doubt be absorbed into a growing IMPERIAL EUROPE more or less led by a Moscow-Berlin Axis that will pay short shrift to our American delusions of self-importance.  The German and certain other elements in the U.S. will be altogether able and willing to eagerly assist in this most timely improvement.

    And our own monarch in America will be the white European IMPERATOR ROMANUM over on the Old Continent.  Perhaps in Berlin, perhaps in Moscow, but in any event dependent on Holy Mother Church for his legitimacy and spiritual guidance.  As for what the utterly delusional masses of the godless Great Unwashed may or may not want, truly who gives a "fig"?

    Only what we Catholics want is going to be of any serious importance.  Everyone else will be INFINITELY too lost in their apostate depravity to matter.  Apostasy and gross moral depravity have consequences!  Not least among them is having to lose one's liberties and be subject to better peoples with better sense about them.  

    GOD IS JUST.





    South as part of mexico? :confused1:

    Offline Anthony Benedict

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    USA and Monarchy
    « Reply #3 on: August 06, 2012, 05:21:07 PM »
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  • Poetic sentiments, indeed.  And, unfortunately, for the good order of nations, not much more.

    The Atlantic Charter put paid to any remaining aspirations for anything resembling a decent little sovereignty, of any form whatsoever, not consistent with liberal capitalism.  Banks, militaries, the welfare state - the lot, are under consignment.  And that open conspiracy has been in place since the 1940s.

    Now, anyone managing to do a reverse of "internationalist communism", a literally global "movement" to re-establish monarchy, parliament, republic, what have you on a case by case basis?  Well, then you might really have something.

    Until then?  It wiil, since it only can, remain a race between the autocratic capitalist imperialists in Russia and China and the social democrat capitalists.

    Offline brotherfrancis75

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    USA and Monarchy
    « Reply #4 on: August 06, 2012, 07:41:31 PM »
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  • Quote from: Anthony Benedict
    Poetic sentiments, indeed.  And, unfortunately, for the good order of nations, not much more.

    The Atlantic Charter put paid to any remaining aspirations for anything resembling a decent little sovereignty, of any form whatsoever, not consistent with liberal capitalism.  Banks, militaries, the welfare state - the lot, are under consignment.  And that open conspiracy has been in place since the 1940s.

    Now, anyone managing to do a reverse of "internationalist communism", a literally global "movement" to re-establish monarchy, parliament, republic, what have you on a case by case basis?  Well, then you might really have something.

    Until then?  It wiil, since it only can, remain a race between the autocratic capitalist imperialists in Russia and China and the social democrat capitalists.


    Mr. Anthony Benedict,

    It's hard to say whether I'm more optimistic or pessimistic than you.  It seems to me I'm much more pessimistic than you about the recent past but much more optimistic than you about the present and future.  I can't see much actual relevance of capitalism to our present world since, in my view, that oligarchic society was effectively destroyed back in the 1930s and 1940s to be replaced by dictatorships of decidedly Marxist or fascist character.  Since WWII our world has seen a fierce contest between forces of Marxism and neo-fascism with any actual liberalism, capitalism and democracy being nothing more than quaint memories from a bygone past.

    Today we are seeing a world war between increasingly neo-fascist regimes in the East and increasingly desperate Marxist tyrannies in the West.  The rumbling volcano under the surface in both East and West might be best described as a kind of resurgent medievalism within which Catholicism in no doubt "Exhibit A."  In other words the "modernist" world is an increasingly thin veneer more and more stressed by growing pressures from the forces of PERMANENCE underneath.  The real temporal forces working towards a triumphant medievalism are above all to be seen within the military establishments of the great powers.  The General Staffs are increasingly drawn towards what might well be described as a "medievalism at any price."  All this is at the furthest antipodes from anything like democracy, liberalism or capitalism.

    Perhaps I might suggest Geopolitics as a discipline with which you might recognize the changes to which I refer.  The General Staffs are gripped in an embrace with Geopolitics that promises to shatter the existing modernist world order forever.  The "capitalist" regimes you rightly seem to detest are self-absorbed bureaucracies in which their Red Revolution has become frozen.  They are Marxist revolutionary bureaucracies whose engines have frozen up and this has already reduced those previously omnipotent Reds into operators of little more than office gossip.

    Roughly speaking, Obamy sits in the "White" House eating his watermelons while the leaders outside N.A.T.O. are increasingly the playthings of a rising militarism that is not different from a genuine medievalism "with all guns blazing."  For the world we live in, don't look at the largely meaningless games of electoral politics, but rather at the MILITARY MEN.  THEY are the true bearers of our global future.

    As our Marxist bureaucracies continue to disintegrate into the Great Void, the sweet song of Our Lord will rise like a great thunderstorm through the all-powerful military barracks of the world.

    The Catholic Restoration is only a matter of time.




    Offline catherineofsiena

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    USA and Monarchy
    « Reply #5 on: August 06, 2012, 08:02:09 PM »
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  • The end time prophecies of the saints say the earth will be ruled by seven or nine kings, a couple of princes and an emperor.  This is during the time of the Great Monarch and the Holy Pope Peter the Roman.  I've always thought they would be chosen by God.
    For it is written: I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be dispersed. Matthew 26:31

    Offline Anthony Benedict

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    « Reply #6 on: August 06, 2012, 10:10:54 PM »
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  • Thank you for your thoughtful reply, Brotherfrancis, in which I find much to ponder.  Which, naturally, is not an endorsement of all the views you take, although here and there, there might be some common thoughts between us.

    I am presently doing research for a work in which geopolitics from a Traditional Catholic perspective play a central role.  As you are no doubt aware, that very term "perspective" does not imply uniformity, consistency or even "realism" as it is ordinarily meant.

    My point in the post I made, above, is that as a result of the interregnum between the two world wars a certain coalescence took place among Western major domos interested in stabilizing the economic survival of nations while maintaining a growing commitment to the welfare state - which now defines Europe and, more and more, the US and Canada.

    Out of this "Weltanschaaung" came Bretton Woods, the UN and the progressivist juggernaut against any truly effective federalism capable of withstanding the cascade of treaties, NGOs and internationalist justice system sorties- a harrowing realization to Americans only now catching on.

    Your argument about military leaders in the future is an interesting one.  I do think that classical Marxist theory has been supplanted by autocratic capitalism and both Putin and the PRC need to be understood in light of this new emphasis.

    In the short term, I allow that the American Navy will maintain a holding action in the South China Sea but there is little to dissuade China from an aggressiveness sufficient to eventually nudge America back to a Pacific border that effectively ends in Hawaii.  

    Thus, how well the admirals on our side ( with whom I have a very mixed sense of comfort, at least as far as the desk drivers in DC are concerned ) will see ahead to what must needs be done to maintiain international freedom of the seas in the Pacific will, as you seem to imply, have a very important role in international relations for the balance of this century.

    One caution, however, should you wish to continue the discussion further.  As the great novelist CS Forester argues, it is the character of the skipper that in the end decides the battle more than the material.  And, just so you know, I am convinced that men capable of heroic character do, in fact, exist among all races.  That their potential receives no notice in "correct society" as a consequence of rank, even racist, politics is entirely regrettable.

    Offline brotherfrancis75

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    « Reply #7 on: August 07, 2012, 02:16:41 AM »
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  • @Mr. Anthony Benedict,

    I do not dream of thinking that heroism or nobility were in any way restricted to white Europeans!  Certainly each race has its own heroism and nobility, while the various "part-white" groups are fully able to assimilate into the white European race if they truly choose to do so.  Non-white Catholics have no rational or intelligent reason to even want to do so.  And being exceptional in ANY racial category is more a moral obligation and burden than a privilege anyway.  As we Catholics say:  "Noblesse oblige."  And also:  "It's lonely at the top."

    As Catholics genuine mediocrity also have many personal advantages, so we have no intelligent reason to make race over into a matter of snobbery.  Personally it's probably easier to be racially inferior!  The entire idea of being noble or heroic or a superior human being is to help others and be of benefit to others.  If selfish advantage is the goal, then usually the more inferior we are as Catholics the better off we will be.  So to speak, with God "the squeaky wheel gets all the grease."

    Those who have been given much by the Good Lord have to pull themselves together and produce!  Many white European Catholics look down their noses against Catholic mestizos and mulattoes, but if so then they are only being foolish.  Socialising among Catholic MEN has nothing to do with miscegenation anyway.  Rather than "racism," I'd prefer to call such attitudes by their more accurate name:  PROTESTANTISM.

    We are NOT Protestants.  We shouldn't have any illusions about that.  Race is SPIRITUAL and racial purity is a struggle that includes EVERY CATHOLIC, no matter how white European we may be.




    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    « Reply #8 on: August 07, 2012, 03:32:30 AM »
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  • Brangelina should be our king and queen.  Golly, it only makes sense.
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline Belloc

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    « Reply #9 on: August 07, 2012, 07:44:47 AM »
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  • Quote from: catherineofsiena
    The end time prophecies of the saints say the earth will be ruled by seven or nine kings, a couple of princes and an emperor.  This is during the time of the Great Monarch and the Holy Pope Peter the Roman.  I've always thought they would be chosen by God.


    Likely, fro mremnant of Catholic nobles/royals.......not long ago, saw a pic of one of Blessed Karls g-grandaughters, Laura of Belgium, pretty lady...though I have little pedigree and lacking in proof of landed gentry, if single, would have to make a trip to Belgium  :smile:

    Part of my family von Speer, part Scottish noble, though again, not direct and docuмentation lacking...
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Belloc

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    « Reply #10 on: August 07, 2012, 07:46:29 AM »
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  • Brother had a point early in post, about nobility in USA. Washington was not some commoner as the propaganda of USA history makes it out, he came from somewhat high standards and was related to the Spensers,etc in UK. Fairfax's were here and left as Tories.......

    That said, too many "founders" were freemasonic and revolutionary..
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline Augstine Baker

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    « Reply #11 on: August 07, 2012, 09:00:04 AM »
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  • Washington was from the Spencers, and most of the leadership in the United States is basically aristocratic.

    Genetics is a part of reality, no matter what our egalitarian instincts tell us.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2183858/All-presidents-bar-directly-descended-medieval-English-king.html

    Offline Belloc

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    « Reply #12 on: August 07, 2012, 10:24:50 AM »
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  • why not surprised the Bushes related to Spencers, nor Cheney to Obama.....not talking 1000 yrs ago stuff or anything, but a bit more recent.

    We have if anything, an unofficial royalty,what Ventura had a good point on, that half his life, only a few families have really ruled, directly or indirect....

    be more honest direct and stop the pretensions of "fair elections"
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Augstine Baker

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    « Reply #13 on: August 07, 2012, 10:50:01 AM »
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  • Like the moral law, political as well as philosophic Monarchism is something which is always true.

    Just because we live in a Democracy, worship false gods, or embrace a tyrannical and illegitimate form of government, doesn't mean that all of these things regarding the good cease to exist.

    The United States has many unjust laws, and it's founded on the faulty principles of religious freedom and the right of error, among other things.  It won't last forever, but it will certainly change before it ceases to exist.  

    Who knows what political forms will develop as American family, town, city and state alter?

    It's not out of the realm of the impossible that the United States could have a hereditary leader.

    It's not out of the ordinary that the Catholic Church will not also be the official religion of the United States, either.

    Offline Belloc

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    « Reply #14 on: August 07, 2012, 01:01:01 PM »
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  • perhaps, many changes after Chastisement hard now to envision..... :pray:
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic