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Author Topic: 2024 article on the principles of voting  (Read 8532 times)

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Offline Everlast22

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Re: 2024 article on the principles of voting
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2024, 09:34:22 AM »
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  • I didn't call you a heretic, friend, I asked if you held to a heresy based on your posts, a very reasonable inference based on your suggestion that "Catholics need to only pay their taxes and obey just laws. THAT IS LITERALLY ALL YOU NEED TO DO." Quietism/Defeatism are errors and heresies, and Catholics are in danger of falling to Bolshevik Communist Revolution 2.0 if we don't wake up and fight. May God bless and enlighten you. Godspeed.
    May God bless and enlighten you, too. I know when I'm being patronized, and you're 100 percent doing just that. When your first word in response to my post is "Heresy.", you're calling me a heretic.... friend. 

    What fight are you exactly taking about? Of course we need to wake up and "fight". By what.... VOTING????? Not voting is not defeatism at this point and time. Not at all. It's TOTALLY clear TRUMP doesnt give two flying pig sh1ts about Christians, abortion, etc. I'm saying the OBJECTIVE REALITY is that we are totally occupied by the SOS. I'm not sure we disagree on the main point, there. We are already communist.. shoot, wholesale, we are WORSE that the communists of old when it comes to basic morality. That's not debatable. 


    Offline RobertS

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    Re: 2024 article on the principles of voting
    « Reply #31 on: August 27, 2024, 09:43:20 AM »
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  • We'll have to agree to disagree, Everlast.

    "Republicans in states like Texas, South Carolina and Utah are pushing laws to require the Ten Commandments in public schools or voucher programs to publicly fund Christian schools. Trump has explicitly appealed to his Christian nationalist base, vowing in speeches to defend Christian values from "the radical left."

    https://www.axios.com/2024/06/24/christian-nationalism-america-trump-republicans

    I think Vance is more Pro-Life than Trump is, but a Trump-Vance platform will be good for Catholics/Trads/conservatives overall imo. God Bless.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: 2024 article on the principles of voting
    « Reply #32 on: August 27, 2024, 11:05:32 AM »
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  • I didn't call you a heretic, friend, I asked if you held to a heresy based on your posts, a very reasonable inference based on your suggestion that "Catholics need to only pay their taxes and obey just laws. THAT IS LITERALLY ALL YOU NEED TO DO." And I said I hope you are not. Quietism/Defeatism are objectively errors and heresies, and Catholics are in danger of falling to Bolshevik Communist Revolution 2.0 if we don't wake up and fight. May God bless and enlighten you. Godspeed.
    Your problem is you post/your posts come across as if Catholics MUST vote for Trump, that they NEED to vote for Trump. 

    No, they do NOT NEED to do so when one considers Church teaching on voting.  They CAN, but they do not NEED to do so.

    You've chosen to do so. Everlast has chosen not to do so.  Both permissible.  Therefore, there is no need for you to bring up any sort of heresy.

    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: 2024 article on the principles of voting
    « Reply #33 on: August 27, 2024, 01:30:21 PM »
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  • So, I ask you as well:  Show me Church teaching that clearly states that voting for a candidate such as Trump would be a mortal sin.

    Perhaps in cases of pertinacious idolatry or explicitly gratuitous spite. 

    Paraphrased illustrations typical on social media elsewhere:
         "Candidate X is Heaven-sent and nobody else can fix this country. Anyone who tells me otherwise is a traitor and should be shot on sight."
         "Candidate X is based & da bomb. I don't care, I jus' wanna own da libs & watch their heads explode :trollface:."


    Thus the gravity of the act wouldn't be due to the choice of whom one votes for per se, rather the approach taken by the particular voter. As ever, there's an argument over internal vs. external forum and whether other persons can assess with any certainty. Yet insofar as God knows each voter's deliberate intent, then it would seem that mortal sin could occur.
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: 2024 article on the principles of voting
    « Reply #34 on: August 27, 2024, 01:32:26 PM »
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  • Perhaps in cases of pertinacious idolatry or explicitly gratuitous spite.

    Paraphrased illustrations typical on social media elsewhere:
        "Candidate X is Heaven-sent and nobody else can fix this country. Anyone who tells me otherwise is a traitor and should be shot on sight."
        "Candidate X is based & da bomb. I don't care, I jus' wanna own da libs & watch their heads explode :trollface:."


    Thus the gravity of the act wouldn't be due to the choice of whom one votes for per se, rather the approach taken by the particular voter. As ever, there's an argument over internal vs. external forum and whether other persons can assess with any certainty. Yet insofar as God knows each voter's deliberate intent, then it would seem that mortal sin could occur.
    That's fair, but that is not what we are talking about in these Election/Voting threads.  We are talking about normal people making a decision between Trump and writing in/not voting at all. 


    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: 2024 article on the principles of voting
    « Reply #35 on: August 27, 2024, 01:38:33 PM »
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  • That's fair, but that is not what we are talking about in these Election/Voting threads.  We are talking about normal people making a decision between Trump and writing in/not voting at all.

    Understood. Simply carving out what isn't at issue in order to set it aside, especially since a portion of the back-and-forth on all of these threads sometimes seems to touch on voters' motivations rather than the actual candidate.
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: 2024 article on the principles of voting
    « Reply #36 on: August 29, 2024, 08:29:08 PM »
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  • Is this enough yet to change the reckoning for anyone?

    As a resident & registered voter of that state, he just declared his stance on Florida's Amendment 4. I'd imagine that his publicly defending a right to abortion beyond the existing 6 weeks (on the ballot is up to viability at 22 weeks) will influence some number of his supporters in that state.

    Video included @ https://x.com/FLVoiceNews/status/1829274631917711483

    Quote
    #BREAKING: Former President Trump indicates he's voting in favor of Amendment 4, which would constitutionally protect abortion up through "viability" "I am gonna be voting that we need more than six weeks."

    PS: The campaign's trying to walk it back:
    Quote
    BREAKING: Trump national press secretary @KLeavittnh says that the former president "has not yet said how he will vote on the ballot initiative in Florida" "He simply reiterated that he believes six weeks is too short."

    Too, there's this about IVF:
    Quote
    "I am announcing today that under the Trump administration, your government will pay for or your insurance company will be mandated to pay for all costs associated with IVF treatment." "We want more babies!"
    Last edited5:22 PM · Aug 29, 2024

    Do they not recognize that IVF involves destruction of human life?
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: 2024 article on the principles of voting
    « Reply #37 on: August 30, 2024, 06:29:58 PM »
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  • I see Ladislaus still hasn't explained why he removed a significant portion of that quote.

    He also hasn't provided church teaching for claiming anyone who votes for a candidate such as Trump in this election is guilty of mortal sin.


    Offline ultrarigorist

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    Re: 2024 article on the principles of voting
    « Reply #38 on: September 01, 2024, 05:57:36 PM »
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  • "Indeed he would not be permitted to vote for them if there were any reasonable way of electing a worthy man, either by organizing another party, by using the “write in” method...

    Sooo...
    In the current environment for example, this "grave moral obligation" to which the authors refer, actually obliges one to write-in a suitable candidate etc. IOW, it's a "grave moral obligation" in futility?? That treatise in the OP is polluted with the typical illogic of Americanism.