CathInfo.com

Quote

Vatican II is a conspiracy. That is obvious. We have Masonic docuмents which outline their intention to infiltrate the Church and subvert it's teachings. These people view the Catholic Church as the biggest obstacle to the brave new world they aim to create.

Just look at the case of the imposter Sister Lucia. That my friends is a conspiracy.

Well, I'd question your use of the word "obvious" since at least two other posters here besides myself disagree.  I'd also question your use of the word "obvious" since while you consider Sister Lucia an impostor, other posters in this thread sent me to organizations sympathetic to her.  

I think that people thinking their way of thinking is "Obvious" is most of the problem I'm experiencing.  

Well, it is objectively obvious that Sister Lucia was replaced by an imposter. This can be proven conclusively with a basic visual analysis. For one thing, the pogonion (the foreward-most point of the chin) to nasion (the point where the nose and forehead meet) relationship is completely divergent. Pogonion falls behind nasion in Sister Lucia but is actually several mm ahead of nasion in the imposter. This is a substantial discrepancy and cannot be accounted for by aging, tooth loss, or any other such nonsense explanation put forth by the apologists. Facial relationships can be scientifically measured. One could draw a rough cephalometric diagram which would prove, even from these blurry photos, that these are two different women with completely divergent craniofacial measurements.

What is obvious is obvious, what is true is true. Whether it's obvious to yourself or even to the majority of people alive is entirely irrelevant.

SoldierofChrist wrote -

Quote

 Real Catholics don't suddenly develop an aversion to the Sacrificial Altar and replace it with a table.  They don't suddenly develop an aversion to Catholic teachings and start spreading heresy.

Well...that would be a question.  We know that a group of Italian and German Bishops and their Periti did.  Modernism is a heresy.  Heresy has a well-known history in the Church.  

Arianism didn't require a global conspiracy to become more popular than authentic Christianity.  

In the same way, Modernism can be traced to Europe, arising out of the Enlightenment.  It became popular among clergy, not because they were being ordered to be modernist by Masonic masters, but because it was academically popular.  It's still academically popular today.  I can go a NO seminary, pick one and odds are it will suffice, and find modernist staff and directors.  They teach modernism.  The students imbibe it, since they are terrorized into submission to the agenda of the staff lest they be kicked out.  The men become priests and teach modernism in the parishes.  

The people have the Catholic virtue of obedience.  So, they listen.  They have been told since the late 60's that the meal, rather than the sacrifice, is the authentic understanding of the Eucharist.  They believe their priests.  I believed this for a long time after I became Catholic.

No Masons are needed for this to happen.

 

But these modernists turned their backs on God and disobeyed Pope St. Pius X and Pope Pius IX in allowing modernism to infect their beliefs.

I would add to my list of suggestions, a read through Archbishop LeFebvre's 'Open Letter to Confused Catholics'.  'The Catechism of the Crisis in the Church' is also a fantastic read.  It contains most, if not all, of what is written about in 'Open Letter', but it is more up to date.

Sooner or later you will have to come to terms with the fact that revolt is not Catholic.  So Catholics have no place disobeying the valid teachings of churchmen, and if they find themselves in a position of disobedience, that must be because those teachings are not valid, and because true obedience requires them to disobey these invalid instructions.

Now, I know that you present this topic as a quandary that you are looking for a way out of.  Please tell me that you are not just looking for people to argue the issue with.  Because advice on how to get to logically get to where we are, is one thing.  A debate is a totally different thing.

Icterus,

I did have one question I wanted to ask you.  What will you do if the modernists finally succeed in completely abrogating the traditional Mass?  Will you go to the SSPX/SSPV/CMRI or will you go to the Novus Ordo?