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Author Topic: Tradition, Family, Property (TFP)  (Read 8429 times)

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Offline Sans Peur

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Tradition, Family, Property (TFP)
« on: October 09, 2012, 12:37:04 AM »
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  • Hi all.


    What is the position of SSPX (if any) on the group Tradition, Family, Property?

    I havent heard much about them, except what i read online, as i am in Australia. I'd be interested in possibly being an activist for them on my Campus in the future, but i want to know what they're like. Are they Novus Ordo? Modernists? Sedevancatists?

    If anyone has any information on them it would be much appreciated.

    Cheers
    Nick


    http://www.tfp.org/


    Offline MaterDominici

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    Tradition, Family, Property (TFP)
    « Reply #1 on: October 09, 2012, 12:41:45 AM »
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  • "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson


    Offline Nadir

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    Tradition, Family, Property (TFP)
    « Reply #2 on: October 09, 2012, 01:02:28 AM »
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  • The Australian TFP
    http://www.fatima.org.au/australiantfp.php

    No comment until I read what Mater has recommended.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Tradition, Family, Property (TFP)
    « Reply #3 on: October 09, 2012, 01:07:36 AM »
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  • They are novus ordo.  
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Tradition, Family, Property (TFP)
    « Reply #4 on: October 09, 2012, 01:14:06 AM »
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  • They do pray the Rosary and do what they can do defeat anti-Catholicism and Blasphemies.  On october 13th, they are sponsoring biggest Rosary Rally under another America needs Fatima.  

    This is a very conservative novus ordo group based out of Pennsylvania, USA  

    They are also very pro life too.  

    Someone should send them literature about latin mass vs old mass.  I not sure what Mass they offer.  We should be working to lead these souls to Heaven    

    May God bless you and keep you


    Offline Nadir

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    Tradition, Family, Property (TFP)
    « Reply #5 on: October 09, 2012, 02:12:01 AM »
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  • Both TFP and Tradition in Action claim Plinio for their founder and inspiration. From what I understand and remember reading a while back, after the death of Plinio, TFP was not faithful to the traditional Mass, and were not prepared to separate themselves from the conciliar church, so Tradition in Action came into being.

    TFP are strongly into processions, pilgrimages and public displays of devotion and against blasphemy and blasphemous theatre and shows.

    Personally I feel more comfortable with Tradition in Action. http://www.traditioninaction.org/index.htm
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    « Reply #6 on: October 09, 2012, 02:44:30 AM »
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  • thanks for the information.  What does anyone think of www.mindszenty.org  ?  (it is novus ordo.)
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Nadir

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    « Reply #7 on: October 09, 2012, 03:31:17 AM »
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  • Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey
    thanks for the information.  What does anyone think of www.mindszenty.org  ?  (it is novus ordo.)


    It is linked to Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest  "where Masses, celebrated according to the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite ("traditional Latin Mass"), are offered Mondays, as an expression of  gratitude to all who are associated with the Cardinal Mindszenty Foundation and its mission."
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.


    Offline Belloc

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    Tradition, Family, Property (TFP)
    « Reply #8 on: October 09, 2012, 07:32:00 AM »
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  • Read close enough, TFP is an americainst and pro-neocon war front group.......or at least, their articles are geared that way and hiding behind a Fatima/Catholic venneer......

    as far as the mindszenty group, We used to get newsletters from them throughout the 80's and 90's.....they were at one time good, but like a lot of Catholic anti-communist groups, might have fallen to the Neocons......they were active in conferences then.....looking back at speakers,books,etc.....they wer already slithering in....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline John Grace

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    « Reply #9 on: October 09, 2012, 09:01:19 AM »
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  • Personally, I would encourage people to stay clear of the TFP. They seem active in Institute Christ the King activity in Ireland. Worryingly, some SSPX laity speak favourably of the TFP though probably not aware of the full facts of that outfit.

    They might be "pro-life" but even Luther wrote crackers of sermons.

    Michael O' Hanlon of 'Ireland Needs Fatima', a front for the TFP is of course a brother of Ardal O' Hanlon, who played Father Dougal McGuire in 'Father Ted'.

    I find them a neo-con outfit. Again a personal opinion but am not a fan of the TFP.

    Offline John Grace

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    « Reply #10 on: October 09, 2012, 09:06:15 AM »
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  • An Interesting Docuмent on TFP, Letter from Bishop de Castro Mayer
    http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=733
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    This letter was published in the Campos daily, La Folha de Manhà in 1991; the original text, however, is dated 1984, two years after Bishop de Castro Mayer's break with TFP. It appeared in Le Sel de la Terre, [no. 28, Spring 1999], in an article entitled, "Docuмents sur la T.F.P".

    Dear XXXXX,
    I owe a response to your grieving letter of September 24, which, as the postmark indicates, you sent me on September 25.

    In this case, I can only offer the sole advice: pray, pray much, above all the Rosary or at least the five decades of the Rosary, asking the Virgin Mother, Mediatrix of all graces, to enlighten your son and make him see that TFP is an heretical sect because, in fact, although they do not say or write it, TFP lives and behaves in accord with a principle which fundamentally undermines the truth of Christianity, that is, of the Catholic Church.

    In fact, it is de fide that Jesus Christ founded His Church------destined to maintain on earth the true worship of God and to lead souls toward eternal salvation---as an unequal society, composed of two classes: one which governs, teaches and sanctifies, composed of members of the clergy, and the other---the faithful---who receive the teaching, are governed and sanctified. This is a de fide dogma.

    St. Pius X wrote that the Church is, in its very nature, an unequal society, meaning that it comprises two orders of persons: shepherds and flocks, those who belong to the various ranks of the Hierarachy and the faithful multitude. These two orders are so completely distinct that the Hierarchy alone has the right and authority to guide and govern the members to the Church's ends, while the duty of the faithful is that of allowing themselves to be governed and to obediently follow the way given by the governing class (The Encyclical, "Vehementer", February 11, 1906) [7].

    And the entire history of the Church, as can be seen in the New Testament, attests to this truth as a fundamental dogma of the Church's constitution. It was to the Apostles only that Jesus said: “Go and teach all nations”. Too, the Acts of the Apostles show us the life of the Church in the times following Jesus Christ. Because of this, it is an heretical subversion to habitually follow a lay person, ---therefore, not a member of the Hierarchy--- as the spokesman of orthodoxy. Thus, they do not look to what the Church says, what the Bishops say, rather what this or that one says.... Nor does it end there: this attitude------even if not openly avowed---actually positions the "leader" as the arbiter of orthodoxy, and is accompanied by a subtle but real mistrust of the hierarchy and of the clergy in general.

    There is a visceral anticlericalism in TFP: everything that comes from the clergy is prejudicially received. Basically, it holds that all priests are ignorant, not very zealous or interesting, and have other such qualities. Well, then, keeping in mind the divine Constitution of the Church which was instituted by Jesus Christ, TFP's habitual anti-clericalism, latent, makes it an heretical sect, and therefore, as I have said, is animated by a principle contrary to the dogma established by Jesus Christ in the constitution of His Church.

    Nevertheless, TFP had a healthy beginning. There was a certain evolution of the apostolate carried out by the bi-weekly newspaper of the Marian Congregation of St. Cecelia, titled, O Legionario. As a serious and well intentioned movement, it sought to strengthen the intellectual and religious formation of the members of that Congregation and, consequently, of the bi-weekly’s readers. It was influential throughout Brazil. That was the era of [its] obedience to Monsignors Duarte and Leme. I accompanied and approved its apostolate, also when it began to stray into an anticlerical spirit, which began by its consolidating its position and then reversing it by putting the clergy in tow behind a charismatic layman, with his monopoly on orthodoxy. Perhaps I gave it support beyond a licit point. I retracted it only when it became clear to me that my warnings were not being taken into consideration. They had become useless.

    It is just to observe that the straying of certain members of the hierarchy, ....explains the “TFPistas'" scandal, but it doesn't justify the positions they came to take. Even less so, those of their leader, Plinio.

    At this time, as I said at the beginning of this letter, the remedy is prayer. First, because without prayer nothing is obtained: “Ask,“ Our Lord says, “and you shall receive.” It is necessary to pray, because charismatic fervor produces a certain fanaticism: individuals become incapable of seeing objective reality, of perceiving even fundamental errors, because of this inversion of following a lay person instead of the legitimate Shepherds of the Holy Church. So much moreso when, as I have observed, members of the Hierarchy unfortunately and frequently utter words and take positions which any Catholic can see are dissonant from doctrine and from the guidance of the Church of the ages.....

    I ask Our Lord that he grant you, and your entire family, a holy and happy Christmas and many years filled with God's grace.
    I ask that you pray for me, Servant in Christ-Jesus,
    Antonio de Castro Mayer, Bishop Emeritus of Campos

    [Thanks to Suzanne Rini for the translation]


    Quote


    Offline John Grace

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    Tradition, Family, Property (TFP)
    « Reply #11 on: October 09, 2012, 09:08:07 AM »
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  • From 2008

    http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=733
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    TFP "anti-cult" front-group, CESNUR

    TFP Meets with Problems
    http://www.kelebekler.com/cesnur/storia/gb14.htm

    The CESNUR critical page
    http://www.kelebekler.com/cesnur/eng.htm

    The CESNUR case
    http://www.kelebekler.com/cesnur/txt/ces2.htm

    The Secret Story of a Cult Apologist:
    Massimo Introvigne, CESNUR and the Brazilian right-wing organization, "Tradition, Family and Property" (T.F.P.)
    http://www.kelebekler.com/cesnur/storia/gb00.htm

    CESNUR's Director, Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and TFP
    http://www.kelebekler.com/cesnur/txt/sod0_i.htm

    Introvigne's Role in Plinio's War on the "Anti-Cult Movement"
    http://www.kelebekler.com/cesnur/storia/gb19.htm

    Offline John Grace

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    « Reply #12 on: October 09, 2012, 09:10:27 AM »
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  • The url has the exchange.

    http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=733
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    An interesting (on-going?) exchange with Robert Ritchie on Fisheaters. Mr. Ritchie is a Director of the American Society for TFP and appears to be the chief of its America Needs Fatima organization.


    I'm going to post what seem to me to be the more interesting questions, and Mr. Ritchie's responses, for reference on Ignis but the whole thread can be accessed here:
    http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/ap...post?id=2649714

    Offline John Grace

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    « Reply #13 on: October 09, 2012, 09:29:48 AM »
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  • Quote
    Worryingly, some SSPX laity speak favourably of the TFP though probably not aware of the full facts of that outfit.


    To clarify and expand to what I mean, I recall speaking a woman who attends the SSPX at a pro-life event. She thought the TFP excellent because they stand up with signs "honk if you are pro-life", "honk if you believe marriage is between man and woman etc etc".

    The danger with these people is next thing they will think Benedict XVI is a friend of Tradition because he encourages kneeling whilst receiving the host etc etc. A priest is more traditional if the vestments seem traditional etc etc

    It's necessary to educate people. I had to write to a pro-life lobby group as they were linking to the TFP. I sent the single issue lobby group the truth about the TFP. The lady was genuinely unaware. She isn't a Trad so we shouldn't be harsh on her.

    SSPX laity defending the TFP is another matter. Naturally, you might expect it from the Institute of Christ the King and others on the veneer of Tradition.

    It's one thing to assist on a pro-life picket, a conference etc etc but who influences who is they key issue. TFP influence should and will be resisted.We don't actually need them.

    Offline Sans Peur

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    « Reply #14 on: October 09, 2012, 10:47:52 PM »
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  • Thanks for all the replies. The reason why i asked the question is because while i like alot of the stuff they are doing (rallies, student action, etc) there is something "off" about them that i couldn't put a finger on.

    Perhaps it was because i could not find a "Statement of beliefs" page or something, there is no real point by point statement on where they stand on various issues. Perhaps that is related to the Neocon issue.

    Anyway, this is all food for thought, so again: Thankyou.