Pope's master of liturgy helps Benedict restore traditions

Some of the key trappings of the Mass - the vestments and vernacular, the "smells and bells" - have taken on a more ancient air since Benedict succeeded John Paul II, and since Marini succeeded Piero Marini...In an interview Thursday, he [Msgr. Guido Marini, new master of liturgy] argued that the changes should not be seen as a liturgical backlash to modernity but as a "harmonious development" in a "continuum" that takes full advantage of the church's rich history and is not subject to what he has called "sporadic modifications."

However,

Liturgical progressives, like Bishop Donald Trautman of Erie, Pa., are concerned that Marini considers the reforms of the 1960s ecuмenical council known as Vatican II as being among those sporadic modifications.

For example,

At most papal Masses, a large crucifix flanked by tall candles is now displayed on the altar, even though many progressives say the ornaments block the view of the priest and the bread and wine. They argue that this obstructs the accessibility urged by liturgical reforms associated with the Second Vatican Council.

Piero Marini, the previous master of liturgy:

In the name of "inculturation," or integrating church rites with local customs, the silver-haired Marini in 1998 accepted the request of local bishops to allow a troupe of scantily clad Pacific islanders in St. Peter's Basilica to honor the pope with a dance during the opening liturgy of the Synod for Oceania. During John Paul II's visit to Mexico City in 2002, Marini likewise granted a local bishop's wish to let an indigenous Mexican shaman exorcise the pope during a Mass there.

The only thing the new Marini will achieve is putting a coat of lipstick on a pig. At least the old Marini was good for some outraged articles at Most Holy Family Monastery and Traditio.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/24/AR2010122403023.html

Quote

At most papal Masses, a large crucifix flanked by tall candles is now displayed on the altar, even though many progressives say the ornaments block the view of the priest and the bread and wine. They argue that this obstructs the accessibility urged by liturgical reforms associated with the Second Vatican Council.

The amazing thing about "progressives" is they way they constantly lie and are not called on it.  When your opposition makes lying a system, it's necessary to call them on it.  They don't like the Crucifix because they don't like Catholicism.  The Crucifix is Catholic, it speaks of Christ's sacrifice, they reject Catholicism, hence they reject the Crucifix.

My high school chapel got rid of its Crucifix and the excuse is that it's more like Europe without one.  What a lie to say that is the reason.  It is a lie!  It needs to be called a lie!  Endless patience with prevaricators is disgraceful acquiescence to their falsehoods and bad faith!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28449031@N02/3083505367/lightbox/

Why do so many insist on remaining "in the Church," but think the protestantization of the Church is so wonderful?  I'm sure that many are in it for the purpose of ruining it.  But many others seem to be sincere in wanting to be Catholic but are so very attached to the modernizations/protestantizations of the Church.

BTW--I have next to no sympathy for the ones who remain vehemently attached to such after being shown the virtues of tradition and the errors rampant in the N.O.

Even if traditions are restored. There will always be a
need for CathInfo.
Some of those whom claim that they want to restore
traditions, will be steering in the wrong path.
No need for examples,there are plenty of examples
out there in cyber space.
A healthy online discussion will lead to the truth.

In an interview Thursday, he [Msgr. Guido Marini, new master of liturgy] argued that the changes should not be seen as a liturgical backlash to modernity but as a "harmonious development" in a "continuum" that takes full advantage of the church's rich history and is not subject to what he has called "sporadic modifications."

While these changes in the direction of tradition are certainly welcome, the above quote makes me worry about the actual thinking behind these changes. It seems that Msgr. Marini shares the same philosophical viewpoint as Pope Benedict, which Bishop Fellay has called a 'Hegelian' view of liturgical history. Instead of returning to Sacred Tradition wholesale, these changes seem to want to combine 'old' and 'new,' 'thesis' and 'antithesis,' into a new 'synthesis' ('harmonious development,' 'continuity,' etc.). In many ways, of course, this kind of doublethink is even more dangerous than outright error (not that I have to tell any of you that).

Anyway, Merry Christmas all!

Mixing truth with lies.

Quote

this kind of doublethink is even more dangerous than outright error

It is outright error.

It is the "hermenuetic of continuity", brothers. Just like a caterpillar turns into a butterfly, the fuzzy, ugly Medieval Church sprouted colorful wings and turned into the soaring Conciliar one.

But if you look real, real hard at the butterfly, you can still see the caterpillar in there somewhere. Go ahead, try it. Can't do it? Well, anyway, you have to admit that it's better to be a butterfly than a caterpillar, right?

 :dancing-banana:

It is outright error.

Well, yes, of course; it's just often hidden behind ambiguous terms.

Pope's master of liturgy helps Benedict restore traditions

Quote

Some of the key trappings of the Mass - the vestments and vernacular, the "smells and bells" - have taken on a more ancient air since Benedict succeeded John Paul II, and since Marini succeeded Piero Marini...In an interview Thursday, he [Msgr. Guido Marini, new master of liturgy] argued that the changes should not be seen as a liturgical backlash to modernity but as a "harmonious development" in a "continuum" that takes full advantage of the church's rich history and is not subject to what he has called "sporadic modifications."

However,

Quote

Liturgical progressives, like Bishop Donald Trautman of Erie, Pa., are concerned that Marini considers the reforms of the 1960s ecuмenical council known as Vatican II as being among those sporadic modifications.

For example,

Quote

At most papal Masses, a large crucifix flanked by tall candles is now displayed on the altar, even though many progressives say the ornaments block the view of the priest and the bread and wine. They argue that this obstructs the accessibility urged by liturgical reforms associated with the Second Vatican Council.

Piero Marini, the previous master of liturgy:

Quote

In the name of "inculturation," or integrating church rites with local customs, the silver-haired Marini in 1998 accepted the request of local bishops to allow a troupe of scantily clad Pacific islanders in St. Peter's Basilica to honor the pope with a dance during the opening liturgy of the Synod for Oceania. During John Paul II's visit to Mexico City in 2002, Marini likewise granted a local bishop's wish to let an indigenous Mexican shaman exorcise the pope during a Mass there.

The only thing the new Marini will achieve is putting a coat of lipstick on a pig. At least the old Marini was good for some outraged articles at Most Holy Family Monastery and Traditio.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/24/AR2010122403023.html

Sorry, a bit late on this thread, see most of you posted this on Christmass day, I was with my family and missed this.

Arranging the deck chairs it appears...