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Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => Topic started by: Incredulous on February 11, 2019, 12:40:38 AM

Title: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: Incredulous on February 11, 2019, 12:40:38 AM


Definition of martyrdom
The great moral theologian, Dominic Prummer O.P., says:

Quote
Acts of Fortitude. . . . these acts reach their peak in martyrdom. Martyrdom is the endurance of bodily death in witness to the Christian religion. Therefore three conditions must be verified for martyrdom:

a) actual death;
b) the infliction of death by an enemy out of hatred for Christianity.
c) the voluntary acceptance of death.

Therefore the following are not genuinely martyrs: those who die by contracting disease in their care of lepers, those who suffer death for natural truths or for heresy, or who [indirectly] bring about their own death to safeguard their person. — The effect of martyrdom is the remission of all sin and punishment, since it is an act of perfect charity.
According to Christian doctrine, martyrdom renders the soul of the martyr worthy of immediate entrance into heaven. The Church prays to the martyrs but has never prayed for the martyrs.
Title: Re: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: forlorn on February 11, 2019, 11:30:25 AM
At what point does martyrdom become suicide? E.g: Joe is suicidal but doesn't want to be damned so he heads into ISIS territory knowing they'll martyr him. Is that still martyrdom, or would it be treated as a suicide since he knowingly chose to go die? 
Title: Re: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: Cantarella on February 11, 2019, 01:13:01 PM
There exists a law of the Church which forbids anyone to actively seek martyrdom. The Church does not encourage suicide in any way, even what you may consider a "pious suicide". One who engages in such behavior would be comitting a mortal sin against the 5th commandment.

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"In truth every act that exceeds human strength (referring here to martyrdom) is an act of presumption unless it be the result of a special inspiration, and the Church approves it only if she recognizes this divine impulse which alone can authorize a deviation from the general rule"  

( From the book Light & Peace by R.P Quadrupani, Barnanite, 1795. Imprimatur 1904)
Title: Re: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: Cantarella on February 11, 2019, 01:20:12 PM
Quote
Therefore three conditions must be verified for martyrdom: 

a) actual death; 
b) the infliction of death by an enemy out of hatred for Christianity. 
c) the voluntary acceptance of death.

Notice that b) and c) are missing in the case of aborted babies.
Title: Re: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: Judith 15 Ten on February 11, 2019, 03:26:16 PM
If a Catholic physically resists a violent assault motivated by hatred for Catholics and the Faith and with the intent to kill the victim, and that Catholic dies in the process, is he a martyr? Or is martyrdom only for the passive Catholic (but not actively seeking it as that would be a form of suicide like Cantarella pointed out)?
Title: Re: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: Cera on February 11, 2019, 03:40:46 PM
What is white martyrdom?
Title: Re: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: Motorede on February 11, 2019, 03:44:31 PM
Notice that b) and c) are missing in the case of aborted babies.
Please explain the Holy Innocents, Mm. regarding c)
Title: Re: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: Judith 15 Ten on February 11, 2019, 03:54:02 PM
If a Catholic physically resists a violent assault motivated by hatred for Catholics and the Faith and with the intent to kill the victim, and that Catholic dies in the process, is he a martyr? Or is martyrdom only for the passive Catholic (but not actively seeking it as that would be a form of suicide like Cantarella pointed out)?

I always thought that any Holy Crusader who died fighting the Turkroaches were martyred for their Faith and defending Christendom. Is this correct or wrong?
Title: Re: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: Cantarella on February 11, 2019, 04:24:22 PM
Please explain the Holy Innocents, Mm. regarding c)

Well, first the Holy Innocents died under a different Law of salvation. Second, they died not only for Christ, but in his stead. Third, it is very probable that the OP theologian is citing here the requisites for martyrdom for the adult. In the case of children under the age of reason, b) would be the definitive, I believe.  This means that for them to be considered martyrs by the Church, they must have been slaughtered for the sake of Christ by an enemy out of hatred for Christianity.
Title: Re: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: forlorn on February 11, 2019, 04:40:58 PM
I always thought that any Holy Crusader who died fighting the Turkroaches were martyred for their Faith and defending Christendom. Is this correct or wrong?
I don't think soldiers are generally regarded as martyrs, but weren't Crusaders promised salvation or something? The Crusades might've been a special case. 
Title: Re: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: Incredulous on February 11, 2019, 04:43:06 PM
What is white martyrdom?
A severe humiliation and suppression to the point of being isolated for the Faith.
Title: Re: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: Ladislaus on February 11, 2019, 05:48:55 PM
I don't think soldiers are generally regarded as martyrs, but weren't Crusaders promised salvation or something? The Crusades might've been a special case.

They're a borderline case, I think.  It's certainly the case that the Muslims and Saracens were killing them precisely because they were Christian, at least in the broader context, although proximately it was largely kill or be killed fighting.
Title: Re: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: Ladislaus on February 11, 2019, 05:59:29 PM
I always thought that any Holy Crusader who died fighting the Turkroaches were martyred for their Faith and defending Christendom. Is this correct or wrong?

As I said in my previous post, I think that it's a borderline case.  In the larger context, he was losing his life for the faith, but in the heat of battle, the Muslim/Saracen might have been acting in little more than a desire for self-preservation.  I'm sure that some of the guys on the other side were conscripted and had little choice and may not have wanted to be there at all, but would kill the Christian soldiers to keep themselves alive.  So it's a little gray in my mind.
Title: Re: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: songbird on February 11, 2019, 06:39:44 PM
Holy Innocents: their deaths are described in 2nd volume of the City of God.  The babes were given reason so that they were martyrs for Christ.
Title: Re: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: Ladislaus on February 11, 2019, 07:16:40 PM
Holy Innocents: their deaths are described in 2nd volume of the City of God.  The babes were given reason so that they were martyrs for Christ.

That's an interesting perspective.
Title: Re: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: Last Tradhican on February 12, 2019, 01:37:13 AM
Holy Innocents: their deaths are described in 2nd volume of the City of God.  The babes were given reason so that they were martyrs for Christ.
City of God is private revelation, we do not base our faith on private revelation when it opposes dogma and tradition. Besides, even if they received reason, Herod didn't kill them because they were Christians, he did not even know that the infant Jesus was a Christian, he didn't know what a Christian was (2 - "the infliction of death by an enemy out of hatred for Christianity") . He simply killed the infants to get rid of his competitor. Also, I would think that all of the dead infants since the beginning of the world till Christ's Ascencion, went to heaven in the same way as the Holy Innocents, they went to Paradise, Limbo of the Patriarch's, then after the Ascencion, Heaven was opened and they went to Heaven. Although, the Holy Innocents would have a higher position in Heaven, up with the Martyrs.
Title: Re: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: Nadir on February 12, 2019, 04:17:53 AM
City of God is private revelation, we do not base our faith on private revelation when it opposes dogma and tradition. Besides, even if they received reason, Herod didn't kill them because they were Christians, he did not even know that the infant Jesus was a Christian, he didn't know what a Christian was (2 - "the infliction of death by an enemy out of hatred for Christianity") . He simply killed the infants to get rid of his competitor. Also, I would think that all of the dead infants since the beginning of the world till Christ's Ascencion, went to heaven in the same way as the Holy Innocents, they went to Paradise, Limbo of the Patriarch's, then after the Ascencion, Heaven was opened and they went to Heaven. Although, the Holy Innocents would have a higher position in Heaven, up with the Martyrs.
Noone has said they were martyred because they were Christians. But what Songbird said "The babes were given reason so that they were martyrs for Christ". There were no Christians until after Pentecost. It is neither against the Faith nor is it unreasonable to believe they were given reason.
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Here is the story of St Cyr, a martyr at 3 years of age, who was inspired by the Holy Ghost to respond as an adult would to his mother's persecutor.


Sts Cyricus & Julitta (16 June)

St Cyricus was martyred at 3, along with his mother, Julitta, a noble lady of Icona, during the fierce persecution of Catholics under the Emperor Diocletian (284-305). In order to escape persecution, she took refuge at Tarsus in Cilicia with her child. She was recognized as a Catholic, reported to the authorities, and brought before the tribunal of the prefect Alexander. As her two servants took flight, she had to bring her small son with her.
 
 When Julitta refused to pray to the idols, the prefect took the child from her arms and ordered her to be whipped with raw thongs. At the sight of his mother’s tortures, Cyricus began to shed tears. Alexander tried to quiet him with caresses and kind words. But he repulsed these blandishments with honor and scratched Alexander’s face with his nails, crying out, “I am a Christian!”


Astonished, the prefect asked him who had taught him to speak. Cyricus answered, “Thy lack of wit is a wonder to me, that seeing my age, you need ask who instructed me in the knowledge of the true God! I am a Christian!” Here is a toddler barely at the age of speaking, certainly not at the age of reason, whom the Holy Ghost inspires to declare, “I am a Christian.” Enraged, Alexander hurled the child down, dashing his head on the steps and killing him.

Julitta, filled with joy, gave thanks to God that Cyricus had gone before her into the heavenly realm. She did not have to wonder, “What will happen to my boy? Will he grow up in the pagan court and reject the true Faith?” She did not concede, and she was given the consolation to see that God provided for her son in a better way than she could have, insuring that they would not be separated in death. She herself was then flayed, plunged in boiling pitch, and at last beheaded.
 
 To prevent them from being buried by the Catholics, the prefect ordered their bodies to be cut up and scattered in different places. But an Angel collected the members and they were buried by the Catholics under cover of night. Later, when peace was restored to the Church, an aged serving woman made known the resting place of the two bodies.


Devotion to the mother-son martyrs grew, especially in France, after Bishop St Amator of Auxerre brought some relics to the monastery of St Armand in the Tournai in the 4th century. Also, Charlemagne had a devotion to Cyricus and restored a cathedral dedicated to him.

St Cyricus is the St Cyr found in several French place names.


Title: Re: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: Ladislaus on February 12, 2019, 08:34:15 AM
City of God is private revelation, we do not base our faith on private revelation when it opposes dogma and tradition.

I don't see this as being opposed to dogma and tradition.  BoB was not even in play here as this was before Baptism had been instituted.

While they were not killed for being Christians, they were killed on account of Jesus Christ ... with Herod attempting to cut off the reign of Christ the King.

What's very interesting about the City of God account is that it addresses speculation regarding the potential ex opere operato effect of any type of BoB.
Title: Re: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: Last Tradhican on February 12, 2019, 12:57:26 PM
What's very interesting about the City of God account is that it addresses speculation regarding the potential ex opere operato effect of any type of BoB.
Please explain further. 
Title: Re: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: Ladislaus on February 12, 2019, 01:27:05 PM
Please explain further.

Since they were endowed with reason, they could actually willingly embrace their martyrdom.  So because it's due to their heroic virtue, whatever effect it had would no longer be ex opere operato (like some BoB proponents hold) but ex opere operantis.
Title: Re: Three conditions required for a Catholic Martyrdom
Post by: Last Tradhican on February 12, 2019, 02:18:26 PM
Since they were endowed with reason, they could actually willingly embrace their martyrdom.  So because it's due to their heroic virtue, whatever effect it had would no longer be ex opere operato (like some BoB proponents hold) but ex opere operantis.
Explain that in English.