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Author Topic: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign  (Read 97216 times)

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Offline Tradman

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Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
« Reply #615 on: January 04, 2022, 03:19:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: cassini on January 04, 2022, 01:12:20 PM
    First of all Tradman, the Catholic Encyclopedia was written by men, not by infallible popes. Go read the Galileo story in any Catholic encyclopedia since 1913 and you will read the illusion that the Church got it wrong. Here is the most accurate account of the antipodes found anywhere:

    https://d2y1pz2y630308.cloudfront.net/21425/docuмents/2018/10/SVhistory-stvirgil.pdf

    "A second difference between Boniface and Virgil entailed more serious charges. In his earlier years in Ireland, Virgil had been recognized for his knowledge of astronomy and mathematics. In those days when little was known about the physical world and its nature, Virgil, far in advance of his contemporaries, satisfied himself that the world was round and that people lived on the other side of it. In 748 Boniface reported to the Pope accusing Virgil of ambiguous and even false teaching about men on the other side of the world. Boniface apparently interpreted Virgil as saying that if men resided on the other side of the world; they might not be of a race descended from Adam. In short, this was to deny that these people could be redeemed by Christ, since Christ redeemed all the descendants of Adam. This was a serious charge. If true, Virgil could have been condemned and deprived of his faculties. The Pope's reply was that Boniface should prove that Virgil actually taught this doctrine. If so, Boniface was to convoke a council and drive Virgil from the Church.

    "Whatever became of these charges is somewhat of of a mystery. It is hardly likely that Vigil was guilty of any such doctrine. Since neither Boniface nor the Pope knew astronomy as well as Virgil did, it is very probable that they simply misunderstood his teaching. Whether Virgil actually clarified his statements or satisfactorily explained them to the Pope is not known. All that is certain is that the matter died. Virgil continued his work in Salzburg and his missionary activity in Austria. Boniface turned to missionary activity in Frisia (now Holland) and was martyred there in 754. Had Virgil been found guilty of false teachings, it is hardly likely that he would have been consecrated bishop, as he was."
    This says nothing different than what was said before even if it doesn't include the globular earth like my reference does.  We all know what they are talking about with or without the globe reference. The globe is the only way there could be antipodes, which even you admit was condemned.      

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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #616 on: January 04, 2022, 04:32:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: cassini on January 04, 2022, 01:12:20 PM
    First of all Tradman, the Catholic Encyclopedia was written by men, not by infallible popes. Go read the Galileo story in any Catholic encyclopedia since 1913 and you will read the illusion that the Church got it wrong. Here is the most accurate account of the antipodes found anywhere:

    https://d2y1pz2y630308.cloudfront.net/21425/docuмents/2018/10/SVhistory-stvirgil.pdf

    "A second difference between Boniface and Virgil entailed more serious charges. In his earlier years in Ireland, Virgil had been recognized for his knowledge of astronomy and mathematics. In those days when little was known about the physical world and its nature, Virgil, far in advance of his contemporaries, satisfied himself that the world was round and that people lived on the other side of it. In 748 Boniface reported to the Pope accusing Virgil of ambiguous and even false teaching about men on the other side of the world. Boniface apparently interpreted Virgil as saying that if men resided on the other side of the world; they might not be of a race descended from Adam. In short, this was to deny that these people could be redeemed by Christ, since Christ redeemed all the descendants of Adam. This was a serious charge. If true, Virgil could have been condemned and deprived of his faculties. The Pope's reply was that Boniface should prove that Virgil actually taught this doctrine. If so, Boniface was to convoke a council and drive Virgil from the Church.

    "Whatever became of these charges is somewhat of of a mystery. It is hardly likely that Vigil was guilty of any such doctrine. Since neither Boniface nor the Pope knew astronomy as well as Virgil did, it is very probable that they simply misunderstood his teaching. Whether Virgil actually clarified his statements or satisfactorily explained them to the Pope is not known. All that is certain is that the matter died. Virgil continued his work in Salzburg and his missionary activity in Austria. Boniface turned to missionary activity in Frisia (now Holland) and was martyred there in 754. Had Virgil been found guilty of false teachings, it is hardly likely that he would have been consecrated bishop, as he was."

    I was going to let this go and ignore it, but I just can't...there is so much wrong with it that this has to be addressed.

    Firstly, your link doesn't work so who knows who wrote it.  Unless you're claiming that this writer is infallible, it has no more veracity than mine.


    Second, your quote says: In those days when little was known about the physical world and its nature, Virgil, far in advance of his contemporaries, satisfied himself that the world was round and that people lived on the other side of the world. 

    My response: This is so shamefully biased that to suggest it's the most accurate account on the subject is not only laughable but suspect.  This only begs the question at hand while it undermines any reader's ability to come to a proper conclusion about the situation.


    Third: In 748 Boniface reported to the Pope accusing Virgil of ambiguous and even false teaching about men on the other side of the world.  

    My response: This is reprehensible. Boniface was not the one in question, Virgil was. But this twists the narrative and puts Boniface under the gun! Then this outrageous statement suggests Boniface was trying to harm Virgil with "ambiguous" allegations, and worse, even hinting that Boniface was lying about Virgil and some "false teaching about men on the other side of the world."  Are you so desperate to defend the globe that you will watch someone calumniate the totally innocent St. Boniface and call it fair? 


    Fourth: Boniface apparently interpreted Virgil as saying that if men resided on the other side of the world; they might not be of a race descended from Adam. In short, this was to deny that these people could be redeemed by Christ, since Christ redeemed all the descendants of Adam. This was a serious charge. If true, Virgil could have been condemned and deprived of his faculties. 

    My response: You should be ashamed to watch someone suggest Boniface was evil or stupid, getting it wrong the whole way.  Let's be honest now. Virgil was questioned for believing earth was a globe which meant that people walked around upside down to the people on the opposite side of the globe     (a very foreign notion, obviously).  The problem for the Pope was that if Virgil was saying there were people on the other side of the earth  the scuttlebutt was that they came from a race other than Adam and Eve, which by, the way pagans had been planting all over the place.  Like they do with space aliens today.  The Pope saw the extent of the problem and put an end to Virgil's mistaken notion about antipodes and globes.  


    Fifth: "Whatever became of these charges is somewhat of of a mystery. It is hardly likely that Vigil was guilty of any such doctrine. Since neither Boniface nor the Pope knew astronomy as well as Virgil did, it is very probable that they simply misunderstood his teaching. 

    My response: St. Boniface and the Pope were what, retarded? This statement is offensive. Especially when we know the Church had a major issue with the whole concept of the antipodes since the time of St. Augustine.

    6th: Whether Virgil actually clarified his statements or satisfactorily explained them to the Pope is not known. All that is certain is that the matter died.

    My response: You must be joking.     Virgil recanted. With this many things going against the citation above, there is zero excuse for calling it fair.   









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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #617 on: January 04, 2022, 04:35:14 PM »
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    • Tradman, St. Virgil wasn't condemned by Pope Zacharias, but rather was made Bishop of Salzburg and later canonized as a Saint of the Church.

    St. Virgil recanted nothing, only maybe in your flat head fantasy.

    You're a ridiculous flat head, talking nonsense about Saints of the Church. You should recant.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #618 on: January 04, 2022, 04:39:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: Marion on January 04, 2022, 04:35:14 PM
    St. Virgil recanted nothing, only maybe in your flat head fantasy.
    You really cannot resist, can you?
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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #619 on: January 04, 2022, 04:40:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on January 04, 2022, 04:39:47 PM
    You really cannot resist, can you?


    I defend a Saint of the Church mocked and lied about by Tradman anytime.
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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #620 on: January 04, 2022, 04:45:40 PM »
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    • Tradman admitted he was fooled with respect to St. Thomas Aquinas. But now he goes on as if he himself and CI readers didn't know he's fooled by anti-christian sources, calling themselves flat head resistance trads.
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #621 on: January 04, 2022, 05:03:20 PM »
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    • Quote from: Marion on January 04, 2022, 04:35:14 PM
    Tradman, St. Virgil wasn't condemned by Pope Zacharias, but rather was made Bishop of Salzburg and later canonized as a Saint of the Church.

    St. Virgil recanted nothing, only maybe in your flat head fantasy.

    You're a ridiculous flat head, talking nonsense about Saints of the Church. You should recant.
    No one said Virgil was condemned by the Pope.  That he quit teaching nonsense is evident or he wouldn't have been made bishop. Ad hominem attacks don't do your model a bit of good.  
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    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #622 on: January 04, 2022, 05:08:00 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on January 04, 2022, 05:03:20 PM

    No one said Virgil was condemned by the Pope.  That he quit teaching nonsense is evident or he wouldn't have been made bishop. Ad hominem attacks don't do your model a bit of good. 

    Where are you getting that Virgil recanted or "quit teaching nonsense"? Here's another possibility: he never taught nonsense. 



    Quote
    The Pope's reply was that Boniface should prove that Virgil actually taught this doctrine. If so, Boniface was to convoke a council and drive Virgil from the Church.




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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #623 on: January 04, 2022, 05:10:31 PM »
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    • Quote from: Marion on January 04, 2022, 04:45:40 PM
    Tradman admitted he was fooled with respect to St. Thomas Aquinas. But now he goes on as if he himself and CI readers didn't know he's fooled by anti-christian sources, calling themselves flat head resistance trads.
    It's pretty sad that you have to resort to being rude when you can no longer defend your position.  At least I was honest enough to admit when I was mistaken.   
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #624 on: January 04, 2022, 05:16:15 PM »
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    • Quote from: DecemRationis on January 04, 2022, 05:08:00 PM

    Where are you getting that Virgil recanted or "quit teaching nonsense"? Here's another possibility: he never taught nonsense.



    Boniface complained to the Pope about Virgil's nonsense. The Pope got pretty ticked and sent Boniface to take care of it. Virgil likely quit doing it. Or he would have been driven from the Church.
       
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #625 on: January 04, 2022, 05:20:01 PM »
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    • Quote from: Marion on January 04, 2022, 04:40:40 PM

    I defend a Saint of the Church mocked and lied about by Tradman anytime.
    Nope. You threw St. Boniface under the bus, suggesting that the guy who hinted that Boniface was deceptive or stupid, as being fair. 
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    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #626 on: January 04, 2022, 05:29:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on January 04, 2022, 05:16:15 PM

    Boniface complained to the Pope about Virgil's nonsense. The Pope got pretty ticked and sent Boniface to take care of it. Virgil likely quit doing it. Or he would have been driven from the Church.
     

    An accusation was made, and accusation that was likely not true, according to Cassini's source:


    Quote
    In 748 Boniface reported to the Pope accusing Virgil of ambiguous and even false teaching about men on the other side of the world. Boniface apparently interpreted Virgil as saying that if men resided on the other side of the world; they might not be of a race descended from Adam. In short, this was to deny that these people could be redeemed by Christ, since Christ redeemed all the descendants of Adam. This was a serious charge. If true, Virgil could have been condemned and deprived of his faculties.

    Far more likely that Virgil didn't say what Boniface thought he said. 


    In any event, you speculate. As I said, just as likely he didn't teach that heretical nonsense. 




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    Offline Marion

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #627 on: January 04, 2022, 06:03:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on January 04, 2022, 05:10:31 PM
    It's pretty sad that you have to resort to being rude when you can no longer defend your position.  At least I was honest enough to admit when I was mistaken. 

    You are rude to Hildegard von Bingen, treat St. Thomas Aquinas like a fool, while at the same time admitting your own having been fooled, as if you think yourself wiser than heretic Newton, and now you whine like a Crybaby Wah Wah pedal of some Reggae guitarist.

    :fryingpan:

    Admitting error is useless, if you go ahead keeping on committing the same crime. You don't even know what Pope Zacharias said, but keep on spinning your flat earth BS about St. Virgil of Salzburg.


    What about some more respect for the Saints of the Church?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #628 on: January 04, 2022, 06:12:10 PM »
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #629 on: January 04, 2022, 06:15:37 PM »
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    • Marion, has anyone ever told you what an immature and arrogant @s$hole you are?

    Just letting you know ... out of charity.  As you know, truth is charity.
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