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Author Topic: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign  (Read 97210 times)

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Offline Tradman

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  • I was particularly interested in reading her for myself after recently finishing Dr. Sugenis's book interpreting her visions to fit his geocentric-modern cosmological hybrid. I wasn't convinced by his conclusions, so I'll probably post what I think in my other thread:
    https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/sugenis-hildegard-and-the-cause-of-gravity/
    Thanks, I'll take a look.  

    Offline DigitalLogos

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  • Hildegard von Bingen: 'Werk Gottes' (12th century).
    It's beautiful, isn't it? This is why I'm interested in seeing what she said. Because it doesn't appear to be a vision of a massive cosmos, whether or not the earth is spherical, flat or contained in a globe.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline DigitalLogos

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  • Some of the best science I've seen comes from this group.


    They have a slightly different characterization of the earth, referring to it as "convex earth" ... but their experiments appear to be really solid.

    EDIT:  this doesn't support embedding so you have to click on the link to watch it on Youtube.
    This is really interesting. Their model actually looks a lot like the Hebrew universe images.


    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Tradman

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  • It's beautiful, isn't it? This is why I'm interested in seeing what she said. Because it doesn't appear to be a vision of a massive cosmos, whether or not the earth is spherical, flat or contained in a globe.
    Always interested in Hildegard.  Her descriptions are deeply mystical and as you say, not entirely helpful regarding the shape of the earth, but I'm sure there's plenty to consider coming from her.  

    Offline Tradman

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  • This is really interesting. Their model actually looks a lot like the Hebrew universe images.




    I'm in the middle of the experiments video.  Extensive experiments to include radio waves, geodesic calculations over huge distances, lasers, and more, done by large teams of professionals.  What more is there to say?  It is beyond doubt that those who say earth is a globe have no basis for their belief. Globe earth is proven a belief only, unsubstantiated by facts.      


    Offline Ladislaus

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  • Yeah, this video is pretty much what took me off the "fence" about flat earth.  I thought ... unless they completely fabricated these experiments, it's case closed.  They say they've published all their data and how to reproduce the experiments, etc. on their website.  They call it convex beause they talk about how the continents rise up in the middle, and that makes sense, but essentially it's flat earth.  Being in a different part of the world, they seem detached from the English-speaking "flat earth" movement and came up with their own term.  But no doubt these guys were secretly driven by DuBay.

    These guys don't appear to be motivated by Scripture, and they seem pretty open to possibilities.  Where I might disagree is they believe that the "atmospheric lense" is kept in place by the earth's magnetic field, and they don't consider the possibility of a firmament.  It doesn't appear to have been in their thinking.  But they do propose a model whereby light is scattered the way it is due to a lensing effect (which we hold to be the firmament).  They studied sun angles from all over the world and found a number of discrepancies vs. what the globe earth would require.

    I found their finding of a new continet interesting, since Admiral Byrd did hint at it himself.  But evidently they came up with this model taking meticulous measurements.  This was no mere artist's conception.

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • They used GPS equipment they assert is accurate to within a few centimeters to determine that those two buildings about 100 miles apart did not lean away from each other as they should on a globe.  They used GPS and geo-detic equipment (from that evidently top surveying firm) to determine that that body of water was level.  They used directional radio waves that cannot refract.  They built their own laser with multiple beams to detec whether they would diverge from one another.  They studied videos of sunrise and sunset in different parts of the world.  They launched balloons to study various matters.  They even evidently found (not sure if they went there themselves) pollen and other things in Antarctica.  It would be interesting to see all of their data.  But unless they fabrication this stuff, it's case closed.

    Now, there was also a company from North Africa that put out a news release about a world-record microwave transmission (those are line of sight beams) across the Mediterranean, which would have been impossible on a globe earth.

    Offline Tradman

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  • Yeah, this video is pretty much what took me off the "fence" about flat earth.  I thought ... unless they completely fabricated these experiments, it's case closed.  They say they've published all their data and how to reproduce the experiments, etc. on their website.  They call it convex beause they talk about how the continents rise up in the middle, and that make sense, but essentially it's flat earth.

    These guys don't appear to be motivated by Scripture, and they seem pretty open to possibilities.  Where I might disagree is they believe that the "atmospheric lense" is kept in place by the earth's magnetic field, and they don't consider the possibility of a firmament.  It doesn't appear to have been in their thinking.  But they do propose a model whereby light is scattered the way it is due to a lensing effect (which we hold to be the firmament).  They studied sun angles from all over the world and found a number of discrepancies vs. what the globe earth would require.

    I found their finding of a new continet interesting, since Admiral Byrd did hint at it himself.  But evidently they came up with this model taking meticulous measurements.  This was no mere artist's conception.
    Yes, I can tolerate the terminology 'convex' simply because the land mass isn't "flat flat".  We call it flat against the idea that the earth is rotund and peopled on all sides, a truly ridiculous notion.  I've reached a point in the video where they explain their model shown at the beginning, as floating in space.  With this I disagree because earth is it's own foundation, the bottom of creation.  This makes sense to me because earth is set on "pillars" for stability. The reality of hell being bottomless also fits within this model as hell continues down into nothingness, emptiness, a place devoid. I can also see that this all remains consistent with church fathers who say earth rests on the waters because the pillars support from the outside and most of the land masses sit in a huge basin of water.  Samuel Rowbotham's theory that the huge land masses bob in the water to create the tides.  Not sure about that, but it suffices for me until further information is provided. All this fits with the "fountains of the deep" also instrumental to understanding the great flood of Noah's time where water came up from the ground and also came down from the sky to fill the earth.  

    In contrast, explanations for the globe model are a never ending contradiction.


    Offline Tradman

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  • They used GPS equipment they assert is accurate to within a few centimeters to determine that those two buildings about 100 miles apart did not lean away from each other as they should on a globe.  They used GPS and geo-detic equipment (from that evidently top surveying firm) to determine that that body of water was level.  They used directional radio waves that cannot refract.  They built their own laser with multiple beams to detec whether they would diverge from one another.  They studied videos of sunrise and sunset in different parts of the world.  They launched balloons to study various matters.  They even evidently found (not sure if they went there themselves) pollen and other things in Antarctica.  It would be interesting to see all of their data.  But unless they fabrication this stuff, it's case closed.

    Now, there was also a company from North Africa that put out a news release about a world-record microwave transmission (those are line of sight beams) across the Mediterranean, which would have been impossible on a globe earth.
    Even better, (correct me if I'm wrong) I think they said the buildings were 3000 km apart which means we're talking 1800 plus miles.  Truly a devastating blow to the globe.  

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • Even better, (correct me if I'm wrong) I think they said the buildings were 3000 km apart which means we're talking 1800 plus miles.  Truly a devastating blow to the globe. 

    Yeah, I think that you're right, now that I recall.  I would like to find their website and get the numbers, how much farther the tops should have been from the bottoms of the builing at that distance, and what result was actually measured.  At about 1800 miles, it should be significant, and they stated that the readings were the same, and thus the buildings were parallel. to one another.

    Offline DigitalLogos

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  • Their claim to have discovered a "new continent" is certainly intriguing. Here's the aerial probe image where they supposedly captured it:
    Screenshot-20220104-124122-Brave
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline Ladislaus

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  • Their claim to have discovered a "new continent" is certainly intriguing. Here's the aerial probe image where they supposedly captured it:
    Screenshot-20220104-124122-Brave

    There's that information from Admiral Byrd, first in the interview, and then allegedly in some lost diary, where he allegedly claims that there's a land beyond the ice that vegetation and animal life, etc. and isn't frozen.  Would be interesting if that's where God put the Garden of Eden or  something.

    I don't know if you've run across the stuff from that guy who theorizes that the features on the face of the moon are actually reflections of our continents here below, and it does show something else there beyond the ice wall.  But he took the dark features on the moon and mapped them to our geography.  It was very interesting.

    Offline cassini

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  • These little nuggets show no proof that Catholics throughout the centuries taught earth is a globe.  Here (below) is from the Catholic Encyclopedia and tells what happened with Vergillus.  Wikipedia provided the same information years ago, but they've eliminated details in recent years in order to make things look like the argument was over something else.  That's why it is so important that Catholics scour the information resources before they are completely wiped out.  Of course researchers need to be open to the truth if they want to find it. 

    St. Boniface accused Vergilius of teaching a doctrine in regard to the rotundity of the earth, which was "contrary to the Scriptures". Pope Zachary's decision in this case was that "if it be proved that he held the said doctrine, a council be held, and Vergilius expelled from the Church and deprived of his priestly dignity" (Jaffe, "Biblioth. rerum germ.", III, 191

    First of all Tradman, the Catholic Encyclopedia was written by men, not by infallible popes. Go read the Galileo story in any Catholic encyclopedia since 1913 and you will read the illusion that the Church got it wrong. Here is the most accurate account of the antipodes found anywhere:

    https://d2y1pz2y630308.cloudfront.net/21425/docuмents/2018/10/SVhistory-stvirgil.pdf

    "A second difference between Boniface and Virgil entailed more serious charges. In his earlier years in Ireland, Virgil had been recognized for his knowledge of astronomy and mathematics. In those days when little was known about the physical world and its nature, Virgil, far in advance of his contemporaries, satisfied himself that the world was round and that people lived on the other side of it. In 748 Boniface reported to the Pope accusing Virgil of ambiguous and even false teaching about men on the other side of the world. Boniface apparently interpreted Virgil as saying that if men resided on the other side of the world; they might not be of a race descended from Adam. In short, this was to deny that these people could be redeemed by Christ, since Christ redeemed all the descendants of Adam. This was a serious charge. If true, Virgil could have been condemned and deprived of his faculties. The Pope's reply was that Boniface should prove that Virgil actually taught this doctrine. If so, Boniface was to convoke a council and drive Virgil from the Church.

    "Whatever became of these charges is somewhat of of a mystery. It is hardly likely that Vigil was guilty of any such doctrine. Since neither Boniface nor the Pope knew astronomy as well as Virgil did, it is very probable that they simply misunderstood his teaching. Whether Virgil actually clarified his statements or satisfactorily explained them to the Pope is not known. All that is certain is that the matter died. Virgil continued his work in Salzburg and his missionary activity in Austria. Boniface turned to missionary activity in Frisia (now Holland) and was martyred there in 754. Had Virgil been found guilty of false teachings, it is hardly likely that he would have been consecrated bishop, as he was."


    Offline Ladislaus

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  • It's a bit distorted due to its being a reflection onto a convex surface (allegedly) but intriguing:



    Offline DigitalLogos

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  • There's that information from Admiral Byrd, first in the interview, and then allegedly in some lost diary, where he allegedly claims that there's a land beyond the ice that vegetation and animal life, etc. and isn't frozen.  Would be interesting if that's where God put the Garden of Eden or  something.
    That's an interesting theory. Since the topography and climate of the world was most likely transformed by the Deluge, it's possible that the ice wall they depict in their rendering was one a mountain chain where the sons of God descended, as they lived right outside of Eden once cast out.

    I don't know if you've run across the stuff from that guy who theorizes that the features on the face of the moon are actually reflections of our continents here below, and it does show something else there beyond the ice wall.  But he took the dark features on the moon and mapped them to our geography.  It was very interesting.
    Yes, I believe I'm subscribed to his channel. Really interesting stuff.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]