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Author Topic: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign  (Read 97331 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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  • Some of the best science I've seen comes from this group.


    They have a slightly different characterization of the earth, referring to it as "convex earth" ... but their experiments appear to be really solid.

    EDIT:  this doesn't support embedding so you have to click on the link to watch it on Youtube.

    Offline Tradman

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  • St. Thomas wrote before the Enlightenment.

    Did NASA dupe St. Thomas?

    See, this is where I think this whole FE deception thing goes wrong: I think it's been pretty well established that globe earth is part of our Catholic tradition, going back to before the Middle Ages.

    It's certainly not a tradition handed down that we are called to hold onto, as the other traditions which are the remedy against the Great Apostasy and Antichrist, or NASA for that matter.



    Satan was re creating the world in his own image long before NASA, who only picked up where the pagans throughout the centuries left off.  It is definitely not established that the globe is part of Catholic tradition.  Not even close.  Severian, Bishop of Gabala, a vociferous flat earther preceded Aquinas by 800+ years.  St. John Chrysostom, another flat earther lived until 407.  There are many others, Tertullian, Lactanctius, Cosmas in the 550's and St. Jerome, the greatest bible historian of all time, also flat earthers. And one of the first flat earthers, Enoch, details how the celestial bodies operate after being shown by an angel, had preceded them all. There's no question the globe has been paraded along throughout the centuries along side the geocentric flat earth, but that doesn't mean it's Catholic. Satan predates men. All of the great flat earthers mentioned here complained bitterly that they were fighting pagan myths. We also have Anne Catherine Emmerich who called the false science of Hom a descendent of Enoch, who studied the stars and made up false science regarding the earth and sky, against the teaching of Enoch, a science that Anne Catherine said would become the mother of all heresies.  No, the globe is definitely, provably and irrevocably in the pagan camp from the beginning. Just like the teaching of the real Presence, the sanctity of marriage and morality are currently being buried, the truth regarding creation, something that seemingly wasn't all that important, suffered all kinds of punishment throughout the ages while it was mostly left on the back burner.  God provided men to light the way, but it has come time to bring the truth about God's creation to all people.    


    Offline DigitalLogos

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  • St. Thomas wrote before the Enlightenment.


    I was referring to the operation of error in the natural sciences going back to the Enlightenment.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline cassini

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  • The Venerable Bede (673-735AD) taught that the world was round

    https://www.gla.ac.uk/myglasgow/library/files/special/exhibns/month/jan2001.html

    "Starting with the smallest units of time, the text describes days, weeks and months before proceeding on to lunar movements and the seasons; solar movements and years are then treated. The different lengths of days and nights and the variation of shadow lengths cast on the earth's surface at different times during the year are explained. Bede simply states that the reason for the unequal length of days is due to the globular shape of the earth, thus explaining the three-dimensional nature of the earth and refuting the notion that early medieval people believed that the earth was flat."

    Bishop Virgilius of Salzburg (700-784AD) was alsop a global Earther;

    https://virgilofsalzburg.com/telling-the-virgil-story/

    There is an image shown on this site under which is:
    "This composite image is used on the cover of the St. Virgil biography. The St. Virgil image is from the 1881 stained glass window In the Church of the Assumption, Morristown New Jersey. The globe represents Virgil’s mathematical commitment to the round earth with a circa-700 map of the world system of the Ravenesse geographer – one of the primary maps of Virgil’s era."

    "Conclusion: Virgil was a thinker ahead of his time. He definitely taught that “the earth was spherical, and consequently a great portion of it was undiscovered, and that every nation had their Antipodes, or people living diametrically opposite of them” (Conyngham, p. 448)."

    Hildegard of Bingen (1098-1179) was also a global Earther.

    https://perthobservatory.com.au/ancient-astronomers/hildegard-von-bingen-1098-1179

    "The earth, Hildegard maintained, was a sphere composed of the four elements—wind, fire, air, and water. Surrounded by layers of air and water, it was encased in an egg-shaped universe with an external “shell.”

    https://books.google.ie/books?id=hdCTAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT150&lpg=PT150&dq=Hildegard+of+Bingen+(1098-1179)+and+the+shape+of+the+earth&source=bl&ots=M6cMXwFAib&sig=ACfU3U2oRSl4snGZjFOqA1kTt3JH65lKew&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjBv-CsjZj1AhUChlwKHZdxChQQ6AF6BAgVEAM#v=onepage&q=Hildegard%20of%20Bingen%20(1098-1179)%20and%20the%20shape%20of%20the%20earth&f=false

    Now what Flatearthers are INFERRING, that all these saints who held to a global Earth, and many others such as illustrated asbove, were undermining the bible and Catholicism with their global Earth conclusions.

    Offline Tradman

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  • The Venerable Bede (673-735AD) taught that the world was round

    https://www.gla.ac.uk/myglasgow/library/files/special/exhibns/month/jan2001.html

    "Starting with the smallest units of time, the text describes days, weeks and months before proceeding on to lunar movements and the seasons; solar movements and years are then treated. The different lengths of days and nights and the variation of shadow lengths cast on the earth's surface at different times during the year are explained. Bede simply states that the reason for the unequal length of days is due to the globular shape of the earth, thus explaining the three-dimensional nature of the earth and refuting the notion that early medieval people believed that the earth was flat."

    Bishop Virgilius of Salzburg (700-784AD) was alsop a global Earther;

    https://virgilofsalzburg.com/telling-the-virgil-story/

    There is an image shown on this site under which is:
    "This composite image is used on the cover of the St. Virgil biography. The St. Virgil image is from the 1881 stained glass window In the Church of the Assumption, Morristown New Jersey. The globe represents Virgil’s mathematical commitment to the round earth with a circa-700 map of the world system of the Ravenesse geographer – one of the primary maps of Virgil’s era."

    "Conclusion: Virgil was a thinker ahead of his time. He definitely taught that “the earth was spherical, and consequently a great portion of it was undiscovered, and that every nation had their Antipodes, or people living diametrically opposite of them” (Conyngham, p. 448)."

    Hildegard of Bingen (1098-1179) was also a global Earther.

    https://perthobservatory.com.au/ancient-astronomers/hildegard-von-bingen-1098-1179

    "The earth, Hildegard maintained, was a sphere composed of the four elements—wind, fire, air, and water. Surrounded by layers of air and water, it was encased in an egg-shaped universe with an external “shell.”

    https://books.google.ie/books?id=hdCTAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT150&lpg=PT150&dq=Hildegard+of+Bingen+(1098-1179)+and+the+shape+of+the+earth&source=bl&ots=M6cMXwFAib&sig=ACfU3U2oRSl4snGZjFOqA1kTt3JH65lKew&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjBv-CsjZj1AhUChlwKHZdxChQQ6AF6BAgVEAM#v=onepage&q=Hildegard%20of%20Bingen%20(1098-1179)%20and%20the%20shape%20of%20the%20earth&f=false

    Now what Flatearthers are INFERRING, that all these saints who held to a global Earth, and many others such as illustrated asbove, were undermining the bible and Catholicism with their global Earth conclusions.
    These little nuggets show no proof that Catholics throughout the centuries taught earth is a globe.  Here (below) is from the Catholic Encyclopedia and tells what happened with Vergillus.  Wikipedia provided the same information years ago, but they've eliminated details in recent years in order to make things look like the argument was over something else.  That's why it is so important that Catholics scour the information resources before they are completely wiped out.  Of course researchers need to be open to the truth if they want to find it.   

    St. Boniface accused Vergilius of teaching a doctrine in regard to the rotundity of the earth, which was "contrary to the Scriptures". Pope Zachary's decision in this case was that "if it be proved that he held the said doctrine, a council be held, and Vergilius expelled from the Church and deprived of his priestly dignity" (Jaffe, "Biblioth. rerum germ.", III, 191


    St Bede quoted as saying that sky events occurred because earth is a globe most certainly does not make him a teacher of the globe, but a victim of the indoctrination of the globe. And Hildegard apparently mentioning the globus cruciger (to include heaven hell and earth) is no proof she thought just the earth was a globe. Again, one has to be open to truth and not dedicated to one idea so they can recognize that there are no "teachings" in the above citations. Thankfully, there are full and rich teachings from church fathers, based in scripture, provided throughout history expounded on by great Catholics, showing details of the earth's relationship to liturgy, architecture, the altar of sacrifice, even visuals showing the logic of flat earth (thank you St. Augustine). And there is so much more it can't all be listed here. Above and beyond all this, science, math, reality, and emerging technology independent of pagan science also confirms that earth is not a globe.  



    Offline DigitalLogos

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  • Now what Flatearthers are INFERRING, that all these saints who held to a global Earth, and many others such as illustrated asbove, were undermining the bible and Catholicism with their global Earth conclusions.
    No, we are explicitly saying that the modern cosmology is entirely false. Not that the saints are wrong (which, they certainly could be). The following is still technically a globe:

    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Tradman

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  • No, we are explicitly saying that the modern cosmology is entirely false. Not that the saints are wrong (which, they certainly could be). The following is still technically a globe:



    Cassini's reference mentions Hildegard's egg shaped UNIVERSE.  Not egg shaped earth.  Big dif. This depiction is exactly that. The manipulation by pagans throughout the centuries has led to a great misunderstanding. 

    Offline Marion

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  • St. Boniface accused Vergilius of teaching a doctrine in regard to the rotundity of the earth, which was "contrary to the Scriptures". Pope Zachary's decision in this case was that "if it be proved that he held the said doctrine, a council be held, and Vergilius expelled from the Church and deprived of his priestly dignity" (Jaffe, "Biblioth. rerum germ.", III, 191

    It is dishonest to insinuate that the problem St. Boniface had with Vergilius was about the rotundity of the earth, or that Pope Zachary condemned the concept of a global earth. The words of Pope Zachary were passed down in the Monumenta Germaniae Historica, just look them up, before again spreading misconceptions about Churchmen and Church history.
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)


    Offline Tradman

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  • It is dishonest to insinuate that the problem St. Boniface had with Vergilius was about the rotundity of the earth, or that Pope Zachary condemned the concept of a global earth. The words of Pope Zachary were passed down in the Monumenta Germaniae Historica, just look them up, before again spreading misconceptions about Churchmen and Church history.
    Tell that to Catholic Encyclopedia which is where the source is from.  Btw, who wrote the Monumenta?  Also, is it in English?

    Offline Marion

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  • Tell that to Catholic Encyclopedia which is where the source is from.  Btw, who wrote the Monumenta?  Also, is it in English?

    The Catholic Encyclopedia just says "a doctrine in regard to the rotundity of the earth".

    The Monumenta are a compilation of primary sources.
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline Tradman

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  • The Catholic Encyclopedia just says "a doctrine in regard to the rotundity of the earth".

    The Monumenta are a compilation of primary sources.
    Why do you accuse me of dishonesty? My source is valid. And the pope condemning "a doctrine in regard to the rotundity of the earth" is exactly what we're talking about.  If you have something to the contrary, I'm happy to look at it, but sending me to a docuмent without the key reference point is not helpful to your assertion.   


    Offline DigitalLogos

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  • Cassini's reference mentions Hildegard's egg shaped UNIVERSE.  Not egg shaped earth.  Big dif. This depiction is exactly that. The manipulation by pagans throughout the centuries has led to a great misunderstanding.

    I have Bl. Hildegard's The Divine Works coming in the mail, so I'm interested to read what she actually saw in her visions in her own words.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Tradman

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  • I have Bl. Hildegard's The Divine Works coming in the mail, so I'm interested to read what she actually saw in her visions in her own words.
    If I remember correctly, Hildegard mentions that the firmament turns on the four winds.  Not exactly a description of a globe, nor a space odyssey. I have the book somewhere, but I moved a few years ago and a lot of my stuff is still in boxes.  Guess I better see if I can dig them up.  Let us know when you get a chance to look at your book.    

    Offline Marion

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  • Hildegard von Bingen: 'Werk Gottes' (12th century).
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline DigitalLogos

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  • If I remember correctly, Hildegard mentions that the firmament turns on the four winds.  Not exactly a description of a globe, nor a space odyssey. I have the book somewhere, but I moved a few years ago and a lot of my stuff is still in boxes.  Guess I better see if I can dig them up.  Let us know when you get a chance to look at your book.   
    I was particularly interested in reading her for myself after recently finishing Dr. Sugenis's book interpreting her visions to fit his geocentric-modern cosmological hybrid. I wasn't convinced by his conclusions, so I'll probably post what I think in my other thread:
    https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/sugenis-hildegard-and-the-cause-of-gravity/
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]