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Author Topic: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign  (Read 54414 times)

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Offline Dankward

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Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
« Reply #75 on: December 11, 2021, 11:10:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: gladius_veritatis on December 11, 2021, 08:11:35 AM
    One can also clearly see, at times, what is undeniably blue sky THROUGH the supposedly-spherical moon.  What is more, why do we ALWAYS see the EXACT SAME portion of the moon (even in the southern regions, where the image is just inverted)??  The view we get NEVER varies, aside from the waxing/waning aspect, yet everything is supposedly whirling through space, rotating on axes, orbiting other rotating bodies, etc -- yet our view of the moon NEVER changes?  HeL-Lo-O!!??## :fryingpan:
    You can only the lit side of the moon, because the unlit side does not reflect any light at all that would reach your eyes. This is common to unlit objects, you don't see them ::)

    Regarding the exact same portion of the moon: We always see the same side, correct. This is called a tidal lock, the Moon's rotation is coupled to it's orbit duration:

    But there's the so called libration effect, because our perspective of the moon side changes with it's distance from Earth. This is a simulated view of the moon over one Month:



    Also, the moons face does in fact change, it rotates depending on your longitude (not on latitude). An observer in Australia will see an upside down Moon face as opposed to an observer in, say, Alaska. I have yet to see an explanation for this kind of rotation on a flat Earth, where you could perhaps see a different side of the moon, but it wouldn't rotate the way it does depending on longitude.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #76 on: December 11, 2021, 11:16:49 PM »
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    • Quote from: Dankward on December 11, 2021, 11:10:40 PM
    You can only the lit side of the moon, because the unlit side does not reflect any light at all that would reach your eyes. This is common to unlit objects, you don't see them ::)

    Those areas without light striking them should be DARK then -- not missing or transparent (see-through). Right? 
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #77 on: December 11, 2021, 11:18:59 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 11, 2021, 06:40:57 PM
    Marion and Stanley,
    What are your education/science backgrounds?  I only ask because most of us who are "investigating" flat earth (and there's nothing wrong with "testing things"...see St Paul) are admittedly NOT scientists.  You two, however, argue as if we are ignoring commonly held, indisputable facts.  So what is your personal expertise in the area? 

    In my experience, those with a Sciency (or even just STEM) background are the worst when it comes to defending the scientific status quo. They somewhat identify with the mainstream "consensus" of scientists; maybe because they consider themselves part of the scientific establishment? They take it personally?

    Fr. Paul Robinson, SSPX has a STEM degree (computers I think) for example. And just look at his stance on Evolution and other similar issues.
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    Offline Dankward

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #78 on: December 11, 2021, 11:22:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on December 11, 2021, 08:42:58 AM
    There are in fact "geosynchronous" satellites, except that there's no moving earth for them to be in sync with.  I'll find some videos.  Satellites are in fact a lie, and yes the government-tied "satellite industry" is in fact in on the hoax.  Satellites are actually held aloft by helium balloons.  Some of these crash from time to time, with the balloon attached, and are found by people in third world countries, etc. and videoed before the government can come clean them up.  NASA is the biggest purchaser and consumer of helium in the world.
    May I show you the images that the russian geostationary satellite Elektro-L is taking every 30min from a height of 40,000km ?


    (please refer to the video description for details)

    You'll just write that off as CGI, right? :(

    If that was the case, props to them for building such a graphically, astronomically, meteorologically and in other ways feature complete model of a globe Earth.
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    Offline Dankward

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #79 on: December 11, 2021, 11:34:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on December 11, 2021, 11:16:49 PM
    Those areas without light striking them should be DARK then -- not missing or transparent (see-through). Right?
    Yes, they are in fact dark, so perfectly dark that you can't see the surface at all because no light is reflected off it. And you can't see that part of the Moon's shape because there is no background to contrast it against - if space was white due to some reason, you'd see a dark circle as Moon.

    At night you can't see black sky through the body of the Moon, you are seeing the lunar night. At day, you can't see the body of the Moon either, but will see blue sky because it is in front of the Moon.

    The atmosphere is blue most of the time because the shorter blue wavelengths of sunlight are scattered more by gas particles in the atmosphere than other wavelengths.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #80 on: December 11, 2021, 11:38:26 PM »
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    • Why, in heaven's name, does NASA's official "photo" of the globe Earth change over the years as CGI technology changes?

    Shouldn't there be more consistency, if it's a real picture taken from space?

    Asking for a friend. ::)

    Also, I heard in *many* science videos about planets, space, the Earth, the Moon, etc. that the Earth bulges at the equator due to centrifugal forces associating with spinning so fast.
    Why isn't this reflected in the "real photos"? Is it too much trouble to have the artists add this feature to their CGI?

    I watched lots of videos like "What if the earth stopped spinning" and so forth. It's considered common knowledge that the earth is larger at the equator, the earth itself bulges out a bit due to centrifugal force, like kids being pulled outward on one of those whirlygig/merry-go-round things we used to have in parks in the 1980's.

    But look at the photos -- those are perfect spheres if ever I saw one. Not the slightest bulge anywhere.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #81 on: December 12, 2021, 12:17:18 AM »
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    • Quote from: Dankward on December 11, 2021, 11:22:40 PM
    May I show you the images that the russian geostationary satellite Elektro-L is taking every 30min from a height of 40,000km ?

    You'll just write that off as CGI, right? :(

    If that was the case, props to them for building such a graphically, astronomically, meteorologically and in other ways feature complete model of a globe Earth.

    Which space agency takes the most faithful photos of earth?
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    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #82 on: December 12, 2021, 12:28:40 AM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on December 11, 2021, 11:16:49 PM
    Those areas without light striking them should be DARK then -- not missing or transparent (see-through). Right?

    Here's the mainstream explanation, briefly.

    The moon is outside the atmosphere.

    When visible during daylight, the dark part of the moon is not reflecting any light.

    The light we do see is therefore the light in the atmosphere, which usually appears blue.
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    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #83 on: December 12, 2021, 12:44:13 AM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on December 11, 2021, 11:18:59 PM
    In my experience, those with a Sciency (or even just STEM) background are the worst when it comes to defending the scientific status quo. They somewhat identify with the mainstream "consensus" of scientists; maybe because they consider themselves part of the scientific establishment? They take it personally?

    Or, perhaps, those with a Sciency background know something of how the science came about, what observations were made, and so on.

    A globe earth was settled science in the Middle Ages. The observations for that should be understandable.

    There was a point when observations went beyond what the average person could do. For example, it takes some careful observation of planets to determine their orbits enough to distinguish a circular orbit from an elliptical orbit.

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    Fr. Paul Robinson, SSPX has a STEM degree (computers I think) for example. And just look at his stance on Evolution and other similar issues.

    Computer scientists are in my experience the worst. They may have taken intro physics but that's the end of their experimental experience. Fr. Robinson's views on science are most likely detached from any direct knowledge.
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    Offline bodeens

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #84 on: December 12, 2021, 12:52:15 AM »
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    • Besides my Starlink idea does anyone want to conduct some experiments? I'm thinking the moon is an obvious target. I have a 12 inch Dobsonian and do a lot of lunar observation, if any of you notice anything interesting I'd love to look too. Honestly there are probably some radio experiments we could do that could give us an idea of the Earth's shape (probably some sort of NVIS thing). I think this is a lot more productive than these arguments and would give us reproducible, hard evidence for us to discuss in these threads. Since the results would be independently reproducible that seems superior to arguing over retardedly fake NASA pics and theoretical models by scientists that no one trusts anyway. 
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    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #85 on: December 12, 2021, 12:54:25 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 11, 2021, 06:40:57 PM
    So what is your personal expertise in the area? 

    Does it really matter? Whatever I say, you wouldn't take me as an authority.

    What I am trying to do is answer any questions you have.

    That includes, when I can, providing observations and experiments that you can do.
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    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #86 on: December 12, 2021, 01:13:54 AM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on December 11, 2021, 11:38:26 PM
    Why, in heaven's name, does NASA's official "photo" of the globe Earth change over the years as CGI technology changes?
    Shouldn't there be more consistency, if it's a real picture taken from space?
    Asking for a friend. ::)

    Here goes. To get a full picture of Earth you have to be father away than a low earth orbit. NASA took those sort of images during the Apollo times during the transit between Earth and Moon.

    After Apollo, most of the images of Earth are stitched together from images from satellites in a low earth orbit. They may vary with improving tech, cameras, and changing filters. And the image pieces are not necessarily from the same time of the day.

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    But look at the photos -- those are perfect spheres if ever I saw one. Not the slightest bulge anywhere.

    The equatorial bulge means the diameter at the equator is about 1/300 larger than the diameter pole-to-pole. I'm not sure that can be seen.
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    Offline Dankward

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #87 on: December 12, 2021, 01:57:17 AM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on December 11, 2021, 11:38:26 PM
    Why, in heaven's name, does NASA's official "photo" of the globe Earth change over the years as CGI technology changes?

    Shouldn't there be more consistency, if it's a real picture taken from space?

    Asking for a friend. ::)

    Also, I heard in *many* science videos about planets, space, the Earth, the Moon, etc. that the Earth bulges at the equator due to centrifugal forces associating with spinning so fast.
    Why isn't this reflected in the "real photos"? Is it too much trouble to have the artists add this feature to their CGI?

    I watched lots of videos like "What if the earth stopped spinning" and so forth. It's considered common knowledge that the earth is larger at the equator, the earth itself bulges out a bit due to centrifugal force, like kids being pulled outward on one of those whirlygig/merry-go-round things we used to have in parks in the 1980's.

    But look at the photos -- those are perfect spheres if ever I saw one. Not the slightest bulge anywhere.
    Because most all of Earths photos are (supposed) real footage stitched and edited together. For a long time we didn't even have the technology or satellites to take full photos of the Earth. So colors, quality and even continents etc. will be different between these composite images and of course did get better over time.

    As to the "pear shaped" Eearth, the small bulge at the equator caused by either the Earth or the universe spinning around is not apparent to the naked eye at all, as it is extremely subtle. The diameter at the equator is about 0.34% larger than from pole to pole. Here's a much better explanation than I could write up myself here: https://www.quora.com/If-Earth-is-pear-shaped-why-do-all-of-NASAs-photos-of-Earth-show-a-perfect-sphere

    Edited to add, this is pretty much what Stanley said above.
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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #88 on: December 12, 2021, 07:19:48 AM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on December 11, 2021, 11:38:26 PM
    Also, I heard in *many* science videos about planets, space, the Earth, the Moon, etc. that the Earth bulges at the equator due to centrifugal forces associating with spinning so fast.
    Why isn't this reflected in the "real photos"? Is it too much trouble to have the artists add this feature to their CGI?
    .
    Wikipedia says: the earth is 27 miles wider than it is tall. This would amount to 3 millimeters wider for a ball that is 1 meter in diameter, and is too small to see.
    .
    I think it's perfectly reasonable to reject the photography of NASA if you want to; proofs that the earth is a globe don't depend on NASA anyway. People have believed the earth is round for thousands of years before NASA existed, including Aristotle and St. Thomas Aquinas, and nearly every educated person in Western civilization since Aristotle.
    .
    On the contrary, I find it amusing the way flatties use the activities of some corrupt American government organization as an argument about the shape of our planet. :laugh1:
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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign
    « Reply #89 on: December 12, 2021, 07:30:41 AM »
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    • About 4-5 years ago, when the media started publicizing the idea of a flat earth (aherm, aherm), some guy took this famous picture on the shore of Lake Pontchartrain:
    .
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