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Author Topic: Thoughts on why I see the flat Earth theory is likely a disinformation campaign  (Read 54417 times)

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Offline Quo vadis Domine

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It certainly seems reasonable to me to believe in the geocentric theory. Firstly, it doesn’t compromise the common (unanimous?)  interpretation of Sacred Scripture for Millennia. Secondly, the geocentric model works just as well as the heliocentric model in predicting the movements of the planets and eclipse events. Thirdly, I can understand why modern science and the conspirators would want to replace the geocentric model.

I read the FE threads with interest and I’m actually looking for a reason to believe it, but I find most of the arguments for it unsatisfying. As I’ve said on other threads, it seems to me that the FE theory is likely a disinformation campaign set in place to muddy the waters of geocentrism. Frankly, I would dismiss it immediately, out of hand, were it not for Ladislaus and others on this forum giving it some credence.

If the Church taught me that the FE model was true I would believe it without batting an eye. If the Church held it in the same category as it holds the geocentric model, I would have no problem accepting it as true. Even if it was the common opinion of ancient and Christian philosophers and scientists that the Earth was flat, I would feel confident that I was on the right track accepting the FE model. But none of these things are the case.

The answers to the objections against the FE theory are not satisfying to me. For instance, the reason given to explain away the “crows nest on a ship” proof of a global Earth, is just not tenable. Another objection is the lack of a cogent explanation of the movements of planets and eclipse events. The thought that no explorer ever docuмented the supposed “ice wall” around the edges of the Earth makes me scratch my head.  There are many more examples of the holes in the FE theory, but these are sufficient for me to dismiss it, at least for now, as a reasonable theory.

For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

Offline Ladislaus

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  • Just keep looking.  I was in a similar position to you for a couple of years, but the more I looked into it, the more convincing it became.

    No, Flat Earth theory can't explain everything, especially with regard to the cause of eclipses.  Some ancient cultures believed in a third "dark" body that also circled the heavens to cause eclipses.

    On the other hand, the "earth shadow" theory held by modern science is also full of holes.  Here are some issues with that theory:

    1) it's been docuмented by astronomers, and there are videos out there showing, that one can see stars through the non-lit "face" of the moon
    2) there was a scientist in the 1950s who claimed to have proven that the moon is made of plasma (which would explain #1)
    3) eclipses take place during the day (the so-called selenelion) which cannot be explained by the earth's shadow theory
    4) I've seen the video of an eclipse viewed from a plane where the shadow angles prove that the moon was way closer than 260,000 miles away
    5) people can see Tycho's crater with a pair of binoculars, a feature said to be 80km in diameter ... from 260,000 miles away (you could not see something that small from that distance)
    6) moonlit areas are actually colder than areas next to it that are not lit by moonlight
    7) nobody's really come up with a workable explanation for the tides (even Newton admitted that the moon theory didn't work)
    8) the fact that we see and have for centuries seen the exact same "face" of the moon.  I personally find the explanation that the moon rotates (to the second) at the exact same rate that it revolves the earth completely implausible.  Even if it were a second off, it would have changed its features over the years
    9) I find it implausible that the sun and moon are roughly the same size (explained by the allegation that the sun is exactly 400x larger than the moon AND at the same time exactly 400x farther away ... and what about the fact that our distance from the sun allegedly varies)


    Offline Ladislaus

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  • As for a disinfo campaign, by whom and for what purpose?  Cui bono?

    It's a fact that Big Tech have been censoring Flat Earth more than even 9/11 conspiracy theory.  It's easier to find 9/11 truth videos out there using various search engines.

    On gladius' thread, I posted videos docuмenting the fact that their Youtube channels are shut down for no reason, their likes and subscribers purged, etc.  There was even some woman from Google who spoke before Congress using "Flat Earth" as the example for something they censor.

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • While Flat Earth can't explain everything, since Flat Earthers don't have the budget to conduct more sophisticated experiments, there are literally dozens and dozens of problems with globe earth theory for which there's simply no credible explanation.

    1) seeing "too far" ... just hundreds of videos docuмenting that you can see things farther than globe curvature would allow.  Only comeback to that by globers is a magical refraction that always bends light to follow around the curvature of the earth.  There's a book out there that does the refraction math and rules it out.  For some of the long-range laser experiments, they actually took temperature and humidity readings all along the path of the laser and did the math to rule it out.  Also, refraction would distort images.
    2) various technologies, such as the nαzιs had during WW2, that had to be line of sight (based on the nature of the technology).  In fact, the British science minister dismissed the rumor of that tech saying that the curvature of the globe would prevent it from working at those distances.  Well, they got bombed with that technology (I can look up the details) -- and the US Navy's line-of-sight pre-GPS navigation system that also could not have worked over a globe
    3) radio transmissions that go for thousands of miles ... the claim being later concocted that they bounce of the ionosphere even though there's no proof of that and is contradicted by the fact that people have deliberately bounced radio waves off the moon and gotten them back (how did they get through said ionosphere).  speaking of bouncing radio waves off the moon ... from 260,000 miles away? ... by the time the radio waves had travelled those distances, the rotation of the earth would have prevented them from coming back down to the same place (would have been miles away ... I've seen them math done)
    4) fact that the earth's atmosphere doesn't get sucked off the planet by the vacuum of space (I use the term "suck" loosely because that's now how vacuum's work), but there's no way that would happen unless the atmosphere is enclosed by something (aka the firmament).  Also, you can't have air pressure without a container

    I've seen an interview with an ex F-16 pilot who asserts that their targeting systems could not work on a globe, and interviews with people like an Army artillery officer ... and all the aviation manuals explicitly state that they assume a "flat non-rotating earth"

    I could go on for hours, and I'll start compiling the evidence in the FE forum on some library threads.

    Offline Marion

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  • Anyone really interested, and not just a couch potato mouthpiece of Rowbothham or Dubay, "doing their research" by watching desinformation on youtube, would go ahead and study the history of the science of geodesy.

    Learn e.g. about Johann Carl Friedrich Gauss, Princeps mathematicorum, the greatest mathematician since antiquity. He is famous for many things, including the bell- Gauss-curve.

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    In 1818 Gauss, putting his calculation skills to practical use, carried out a geodetic survey of the Kingdom of Hanover (Gaussian land survey [de]), linking up with previous Danish surveys. To aid the survey, Gauss invented the heliotrope, an instrument that uses a mirror to reflect sunlight over great distances, to measure positions.

    In 1828, when studying differences in latitude, Gauss first defined a physical approximation for the figure of the Earth as the surface everywhere perpendicular to the direction of gravity (of which mean sea level makes up a part), later called the geoid.




    Quote
    Back of German 10-Deutsche Mark Banknote (1993; discontinued) featuring the heliotrope and a section of the triangulation network carried out by Gauss, in which this instrument was used.

    Quote
    The heliotrope was limited to use on sunny days and was further limited (in regions of high temperatures) to mornings and afternoons when atmospheric aberration least affected the instrument-man's line of sight.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Friedrich_Gauss#Geodetic_survey
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliotrope_(instrument)


    If you want to know, don't spend your time listening to desinformation agents, who sidetrack every serious question.
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)


    Offline Ladislaus

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  • Application of Gauss' law to "flat earth" 1) assumes the existence of gravity and 2) relates to the thickness/depth/mass of the earth.  Assuming that gravity is real (most of us do not believe in it, nor did Tesla, and then Einstein even dismissed it as a real thing), all it would speak to is the depth of the earth and would rule out 1) a hollow earth or 2) a flat earth that's some kind of thin disk.  That "thin disk floating in space" conception of the flat earth is a huge strawman that globers use to mock FE with.

    Nobody in FE believes that the earth looks like this ...

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Offline Marion

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  • Assuming that gravity is real (most of us do not believe in it, nor did Tesla, and then Einstein even dismissed it as a real thing)

    Only flat-earth tards can say things like "Tesla didn't believe in gravity" or "Einstein didn't believe in gravity".

    Einstein even proposed a theory of gravity.
    Tesla is said to have mentioned a new theory of gravity, he was working on.

    Why would they propose or develop theories of gravity, if they didn't think that "gravity is real"?


    :jester:  :jester:  :jester:  :fryingpan:  :fryingpan:  :fryingpan:
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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  • Tesla is said to have mentioned a new theory of gravity, he was working on.

    The solidity of this statement is somewhat lacking.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Marion

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  • The solidity of this statement is somewhat lacking.

    Do you doubt that some say such things about Tesla?
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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  • 1) it's been docuмented by astronomers, and there are videos out there showing, that one can see stars through the non-lit "face" of the moon

    One can also clearly see, at times, what is undeniably blue sky THROUGH the supposedly-spherical moon.  What is more, why do we ALWAYS see the EXACT SAME portion of the moon (even in the southern regions, where the image is just inverted)??  The view we get NEVER varies, aside from the waxing/waning aspect, yet everything is supposedly whirling through space, rotating on axes, orbiting other rotating bodies, etc -- yet our view of the moon NEVER changes?  HeL-Lo-O!!??## :fryingpan:
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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  • As for a disinfo campaign, by whom and for what purpose?  Cui bono?

    It's a fact that Big Tech have been censoring Flat Earth more than even 9/11 conspiracy theory.  It's easier to find 9/11 truth videos out there using various search engines.

    On gladius' thread, I posted videos docuмenting the fact that their Youtube channels are shut down for no reason, their likes and subscribers purged, etc.  There was even some woman from Google who spoke before Congress using "Flat Earth" as the example for something they censor.


    Well the PTB benefit by discrediting the geocentric model. By doing this, the notion of an Earth centered Universe is marginalized and in turn leads to an atheistic centered society. Yes, they would definitely benefit by muddying the waters.

    Honestly Lad,  I have never seen a theory pushed as much as the EF theory, ever. It was maybe five years or so ago that I first heard someone promoting FE. Now it is promoted everywhere. It’s exploding. Even the person painting my house this summer believes it! If it is suppressed, it is a devilishly calculated suppression.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • Why would they propose or develop theories of gravity, if they didn't think that "gravity is real"?


    :jester:  :jester:  :jester:  :fryingpan:  :fryingpan:  :fryingpan:

    Uhm, because there is a phenomenon that we observe where objects move toward the earth.  But what's at issue is a scientific explanation for said phenomenon.  So they were using the term "gravity" to describe the phenomenon.  Even modern physicists admit that they simply don't know what causes this phenomenon that's been referred to as gravity.

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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  • Do you doubt that some say such things about Tesla?

    What others claim was said by a long-dead man doesn't exactly carry much weight.  It is not that I don't believe that some, or even many, say such things about what he said/thought/did; it is that I DO NOT CARE, as hearsay about what a dead man did or did not say means nothing.

    I could just as easily claim Tesla's entire motive, if he said/thought/did anything at all on the subject, was to explain the true nature of what men have mistakenly come to call "gravity."
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • Well the PTB benefit by discrediting the geocentric model. By doing this the notion of an Earth centered Universe is marginalized and in turn leads to an atheistic centered society. Yes, they would definitely benefit by muddying the waters.

    Honestly Lad,  I have never seen a theory pushed as much as the EF theory, ever. It was maybe five years or so ago that I first heard someone promoting FE. Now it is promoted everywhere. It’s exploding. Even the person painting my house this summer believes it! If it is suppressed, it is a devilishly calculated suppression.

    But then why is Big Tech censoring it?  Really the biggest reason this took off is the advent of the Nikon P900 camera, where people were able to conduct their own experiments rather than just trusting a video on Youtube.

    On the contrary, I've rarely ever seen as much effort put into "debunking" Flat Earth theory either.