Marion, has anyone ever told you what an immature and arrogant @s$hole you are?

I try to tell Tradman, how he goes about treating Saints of the Church. Looks like I succeeded in striking the same note.

A flat earth "tradman" is well below canonized Saints in heaven.

Nope. You threw St. Boniface under the bus, suggesting that the guy who hinted that Boniface was deceptive or stupid, as being fair.

Pure nonsense. You can't quote what St. Boniface said. And I didn't comment on anything he didn't say. I didn't even comment on anything he did say.

You're simply totally deluded by that flat thing, and aren't even able to present any straight thought based on facts.

And back to the ignore list you go.

Marion, I'm going to keep praying you learn charity.

I was going to let this go and ignore it, but I just can't...there is so much wrong with it that this has to be addressed.

Firstly, your link doesn't work so who knows who wrote it.  Unless you're claiming that this writer is infallible, it has no more veracity than mine.

Second, your quote says: In those days when little was known about the physical world and its nature, Virgil, far in advance of his contemporaries, satisfied himself that the world was round and that people lived on the other side of the world.

My response: This is so shamefully biased that to suggest it's the most accurate account on the subject is not only laughable but suspect.  This only begs the question at hand while it undermines any reader's ability to come to a proper conclusion about the situation.

Third: In 748 Boniface reported to the Pope accusing Virgil of ambiguous and even false teaching about men on the other side of the world. 

My response: This is reprehensible. Boniface was not the one in question, Virgil was. But this twists the narrative and puts Boniface under the gun! Then this outrageous statement suggests Boniface was trying to harm Virgil with "ambiguous" allegations, and worse, even hinting that Boniface was lying about Virgil and some "false teaching about men on the other side of the world."  Are you so desperate to defend the globe that you will watch someone calumniate the totally innocent St. Boniface and call it fair?

Fourth: Boniface apparently interpreted Virgil as saying that if men resided on the other side of the world; they might not be of a race descended from Adam. In short, this was to deny that these people could be redeemed by Christ, since Christ redeemed all the descendants of Adam. This was a serious charge. If true, Virgil could have been condemned and deprived of his faculties.

My response: You should be ashamed to watch someone suggest Boniface was evil or stupid, getting it wrong the whole way.  Let's be honest now. Virgil was questioned for believing earth was a globe which meant that people walked around upside down to the people on the opposite side of the globe (a very foreign notion, obviously).  The problem for the Pope was that if Virgil was saying there were people on the other side of the earth the scuttlebutt was that they came from a race other than Adam and Eve, which by, the way pagans had been planting all over the place.  Like they do with space aliens today. The Pope saw the extent of the problem and put an end to Virgil's mistaken notion about antipodes and globes. 

Fifth: "Whatever became of these charges is somewhat of of a mystery. It is hardly likely that Vigil was guilty of any such doctrine. Since neither Boniface nor the Pope knew astronomy as well as Virgil did, it is very probable that they simply misunderstood his teaching.

My response: St. Boniface and the Pope were what, retarded? This statement is offensive. Especially when we know the Church had a major issue with the whole concept of the antipodes since the time of St. Augustine.

6th: Whether Virgil actually clarified his statements or satisfactorily explained them to the Pope is not known. All that is certain is that the matter died.

My response: You must be joking. Virgil recanted. With this many things going against the citation above, there is zero excuse for calling it fair.

How come Tradman, you didn't choose the name Solomon in order to post on CIF? Everything I write or quote you tear to pieces and present your own version as though you were present at the time of Virgil. Next it will be Bellarmine who really meant the following in his Letter to Foscanini.

‘I add that the words “the Earth is as flat as a pancake and any who deny this is now the heretic who knows nothing, and bring shame to the Bible and the Catholic Church.” were those of Solomon, who not only spoke by divine inspiration but was a man wise above all others and most learned in human sciences and in the knowledge of all created things, and his wisdom was from God. Thus it is not too likely that he would affirm something which was contrary to a truth either already demonstrated or likely to be demonstrated.’---Cardinal Bellarmine: Letter to Foscarini, 1615.

Let me explain my personal way of thinking about the Vigil case without quoting anyone else whose website didn’t open after I left it and posted it making me look silly.

Having read Professor Martinez's book, Burned Alive, I was made aware for the first time that during the early years of the Church after Christ, the Pythagorean heresies were rampant and constantly opposed by the Fathers and popes of the Church at the time. Some of these heresies would pop up now and again as can be seen with Bruno, Campanella, Galileo, and Kepler. One of the most serious of these heresies was that there existed other worlds and other species like intelligent humans living on them. In 1588, Bruno wrote the following in his 5th dialogue of On the Cause, Principle, and Unity:

‘I can imagine an infinite number of worlds like the Earth, with Garden of Eden on each one. In all these gardens of Eden, half the Adams and Eves will not eat the fruit of knowledge, but half will. But half of infinity is infinity, so an infinite number of worlds will fall from grace and there will be an infinite number of crucifixions.’ --- As quoted by Martinez in his book Burned Alive.

Now one of the heresies Bruno was burned at the stake for was that aliens exist. In other words to say there are intelligent beings beyond the reach the baptism of the Church is one of the longest and most serious heresies ever in the Church.

Now with no direct record of the Virgil case available except that it was about humans living on the other side of a global Earth, it is not too much of an assumption that a rumour would arise that Virgil was suggesting the long held heresy that people lived beyond the reach of Christ’s Church and churchmen. Pope Zachary’s decision was based on rumours about Virgil professing belief of people (Antipodes) not descended from Adam and Eve, or most likely people always beyond the reach of the Church for baptism, existing on the other side of global Earth. One suspects the rumour or accusation was similar to the Pythagorean heresy that intelligent beings lived on other worlds beyond Christianity. As it turned out, Virgil was correct about such humans living beyond Europe beneath the equator of a global Earth. Didn’t Christopher Columbus discover such people when his voyages from 1492 to 1504 reached South America? It was only then that these people were introduced to Catholicism, showing that no people were living beyond Christ’s redemption and baptism.

To suggest or infer that the row wasn’t really about a global Earth and could equally be one involving a flat Earth is beyond my thinking. But then I am not a Solomon like you Tradman.

Here's a working link:

https://tinyurl.com/34vnnkvd

Many thanks Emile. I am a dinosaur when it comes to new-tec. I don't even have a mobile. I once told that to a supermarket checkour lad and he said: " Wow, you must be the happiest man around."

Many thanks Emile. I am a dinosaur when it comes to new-tec. I don't even have a mobile. I once told that to a supermarket checkour lad and he said: " Wow, you must be the happiest man around."

You're certainly welcome, Cassini. I don't own a smart phone either, I just have a flip phone that I carry when traveling and even then I "forget" to turn it on. A person needs at least some quiet and time to think.

On a different note, I'm finally getting around to reading your book. I think it is really worthwhile and want to thank you for putting in the effort to write it.

Aha! I had not even read your post before now, but I just finished posting to Lad on the other thread about FE curiosity. I actually said that FE to me reeks of atheism!

Hooray, someone else gets it! Thanks, Quo.

What Quo is saying is utter nonsense.  WHO exactly is pushing "Flat Earth"?  Big Tech has been ruthlessly censoring it.  Is it NASA or the government pushing Flat Earth?  Flat Earthers are ruthlessly ridiculed, and "Flat Earther" was used by Obama as an insult multiple times in speeches.  It's used in the same pejorative sense as "conspiracy theorist" or "tin-foil-hat-wearing" nutcase.  Flat Earth caught on largely because of the Nikon P900 camera, where average people could now do experiments.  Nikon P900 came out in early 2015, and it's primarily responsible for the resurgence of interest in Flat Earth.  Flat Earthers have repetedly had their channels tampered with (having all their likes deleted) or had them entirely deleted.  One of the best ones, "Taboo Conspiracy" is called "Taboo Conspiracy III" precisely because Youtube deleted the first two.  CEO of Youtube went before Congress and explicitly stated that they censor Flat Earth.

Flat Earth caught on because there's overwhelming evidence in its favor of it and because people could suddenly do their own experiments with the Nikon camera.  Several of the current leading FEs directly attribute coming around to this camera.

FE is ridiculed, mocked, marginalized, and suppressed by Big Tech, so it's utter BS that it's being "pushed" like nothing else.  That's a laughable comment from Quo, and a mark of total desperation.

And your comment that FE "reeks of atheism" is a borderline-diabolical inversion.  Sacred Scripture clearly paints a cosmology that's more consistent with FE that globe earth, and it's the atheistic scientific establishment that has been pushing globe earth.  NASA is pushing globe earth, and NASA's history is deeply connected with the occult and Masonry.

"FE" is being "promoted everywhere"?  It's a movement that's caught on and being pushed in the underground only, where people can get into forums and try to argue the flat earth case.  Many of the current leading Flat Earth proponents were regularly banned from one major discussion forum after another, simply for promoting FE.  That's like saying, "I've never seen anything pushed more than the anti-vax movement."  Yes, there's a strong anti-jab movement, but it too takes place in the internet underground.  Certainly it's otherwise being censored and discredited by the powers that be.  So the conclusion there, per Quo's "logic," is that the anti-jab movement is a government psy-op.

Please explain why FE "reeks of atheism".

You, Quo, and everyone else who clings tenaciously to Globe Earth, and refuses to consider the alternative with an open mind, simply make these absurd, and demostrably false, assertions because you've been brainwashed and it causes you psychological disturbance to come to terms with the magnitude of the lie.  You've been conditioned to believe you live on a globe since your early years, and you're incapable of breaking the programming.

Every Flat Earther tells you the same story.  They ran into the assertion somewhere, and even though they were extremely skeptical (some of them deliberately set out to debunk it).  But then the more they studied the question, they more they had to concede, even though it was painful for them.  Taboo Conspiracy III guy, one of the most articulate proponents of FE, says that he got into it because a friend of his brought it up, and he was convinced it was a government psy-op to "discredit" the people who believed the moon landings were fake.  So he set out to "save" is friend from it.  Turns out that the exact opposite happened.

There's Brian Mullin, the structural engineer, who as a hobby constantly studied space and physics, reading books about it in his spare time, and he was crusehed after he started applying physics and math to the problem, since he had always loved space, and had dreamed about becoming an astronaut.  Many of them only reluctantly embraced FE.

We have many professionals from the military, navigators from the Navy, artillery officers from the Army, an F-16 pilot ... all eventually (and reluctantly) come out convinced that the earth is flat, knowing they would be subjected to ridicule.  They knew that if they espoused it, their careers would be wrecked and they would be mocked and ridiculed, but they simply felt that their obligation to the truth outweighed these concerns and came out with it anyway.

It's similar to the jab.  Why do 99% of medical professionals support the jab, even though all the evidence is against it?  It's because either 1) they've been brainwashed themselves or 2) they are afraid of losing their careers, their licenses and their reputations.

Do you think that I enjoy being mocked and ridiculed here by Traditional Catholics?