Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => Topic started by: Catholic Knight on October 22, 2023, 06:43:35 AM
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Pope St. Pius X, what a great pope! Let us pray in this period of sede vacante for the election of a holy pope like St. Pius X.
Theodor Herzl: Audience with Pope Pius X (1904) (https://ccjr.us/dialogika-resources/primary-texts-from-the-history-of-the-relationship/herzl1904)
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Yes, this was posted a couple of weeks ago by Geremia, but it deserves its own thread.
Israel Situation - page 3 - Members Only - Catholic Info (cathinfo.com) (https://www.cathinfo.com/members-only/israel-situation/msg907670/#msg907670)
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Let us pray in this period of sede vacante for the election of a holy pope like St. Pius X.
So, given that you believe Jorge was a non-pope, do you believe that the Cardinal electors he appointed could legitimately vote in a conclave?
Of course, naturally speaking, there's not a chance that a St. Pius X would be elected, since the V2 anti-popes have stacked the deck with Modernists.
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So, given that you believe Jorge was a non-pope, do you believe that the Cardinal electors he appointed could legitimately vote in a conclave?
No. However, my degree of certitude on this right now is at the level of "opinion".
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No. However, my degree of certitude on this right now is at the level of "opinion".
I don't have any opinion. Sedeprivationist types would hold these might be legit Cardinals, whereas straight sedevacantists would hold that they're not. Now, the longer Jorge continues playing pope, the more of his "Cardinals" would be "electing" the next pope.
Informally perusing the list, I see that only about 37 of the current 135 voting "Cardinals" were appointed by JP2 or B16, meaning that nearly 100 of the 135 were appointed by Bergoglio. So, does it even matter whom these elect?
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Pope St. Pius X, what a great pope! Let us pray in this period of sede vacante for the election of a holy pope like St. Pius X.
Theodor Herzl: Audience with Pope Pius X (1904) (https://ccjr.us/dialogika-resources/primary-texts-from-the-history-of-the-relationship/herzl1904)
Pius X delivered a hammer blow:
"It took three centuries for the Church to evolve. The Jews therefore had time to acknowledge his divinity without any pressure. But they haven't done so to this day."
Check mate.
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Pius X delivered a hammer blow:
"It took three centuries for the Church to evolve. The Jews therefore had time to acknowledge his divinity without any pressure. But they haven't done so to this day."
Check mate.
It would have been interesting to have been a fly on the wall to watch Herzl's face react to what St. Pius X said, and then again to hear what Hertzl reported back to his fellow Jewry, along with the plans they set in motion as a reaction.
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I don't have any opinion. Sedeprivationist types would hold these might be legit Cardinals, whereas straight sedevacantists would hold that they're not. Now, the longer Jorge continues playing pope, the more of his "Cardinals" would be "electing" the next pope.
Informally perusing the list, I see that only about 37 of the current 135 voting "Cardinals" were appointed by JP2 or B16, meaning that nearly 100 of the 135 were appointed by Bergoglio. So, does it even matter whom these elect?
How is there not a maximum number allowed for any pope?
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How is there not a maximum number allowed for any pope?
Pope has absolute monarchic rule over the Church. He could appoint 1,000 if he wanted to and could remove the ones appointed by previous popes. He could even, in theory, directly appoint his successor.
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Pope has absolute monarchic rule over the Church. He could appoint 1,000 if he wanted to and could remove the ones appointed by previous popes. He could even, in theory, directly appoint his successor.
That makes sense of course. It would be interesting to know what the stats were for the pre-Vatican II popes. Somehow, I doubt they went overboard with their appointments.
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Pope has absolute monarchic rule over the Church. He could appoint 1,000 if he wanted to and could remove the ones appointed by previous popes. He could even, in theory, directly appoint his successor.
Really? That I had never heard.
There are many things that a Pope cannot change, so he has not really absolute power, unlike a secular ruler.
I understand that the Papal succession is one of these things.
Is there any docuмentation on how the first successors to St. Peter came to power? I imagine that the second Pope, St. Linus, was not chosen by St. Peter.
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Really? That I had never heard.
There are many things that a Pope cannot change, so he has not really absolute power, unlike a secular ruler.
I understand that the Papal succession is one of these things.
Is there any docuмentation on how the first successors to St. Peter came to power? I imagine that the second Pope, St. Linus, was not chosen by St. Peter.
I could be wrong, but I kind of remember that the first Pope's elected their successors, but there were occasional exceptions to this as you can read about Pope St. Fabian I and note the miraculous way he was elected. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Fabian
I think once the College of Cardinals was instituted and established the Pope of that time defined the election process as the way to acquire the next Popes. Sorry, my mind is fuzzy on when that was or what council.
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There are many things that a Pope cannot change, so he has not really absolute power, unlike a secular ruler.
I understand that the Papal succession is one of these things.
Popes are free to change the manner of selecting the next Pope. They've regularly made tweaks but haven't done anything radical since the establishment of the College of Cardinals.
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Pope has absolute monarchic rule over the Church. He could appoint 1,000 if he wanted to and could remove the ones appointed by previous popes. He could even, in theory, directly appoint his successor.
Ah, yes. There it is. I've been wondering about that.
Why are they promoting the dumb Benevacantist story?
(As if apostate Benedict was some kind of rigid trad in contrast to Jorge)
Perhaps it's so they can sell the story that poor, poor (Apostate Antipope) Benedict
was held hostage in the Vatican by the gαy mafia
and forced to resign against his will.
But no worries, he secretly appointed Vigano as the next pope.
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Ah, yes. There it is. I've been wondering about that.
Why are they promoting the dumb Benevacantist story?
Yeah, so the first problem is that about 100 of the current 135 "voting" "Cardinals" were appointed by Jorge. So, for the Bennyvacantists, they need to address the implications of this.
You have Barnhardt over here still clinging to the "non-resignationist" (munus vs. ministerium) argument. Newsflash, Ann. Ratzinger is dead. So she has to address the problem of whether Universal Acceptance of Jorge would not validate his papacy (i.e. provide a sanatio) ... as many would believe.
But the Bennyvacantists don't address either of these problems. They won't and/or can't think beyond the "Jorge is not the pope" proposition.
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Yeah, so the first problem is that about 100 of the current 135 "voting" "Cardinals" were appointed by Jorge. So, for the Bennyvacantists, they need to address the implications of this.
You have Barnhardt over here still clinging to the "non-resignationist" (munus vs. ministerium) argument. Newsflash, Ann. Ratzinger is dead. So she has to address the problem of whether Universal Acceptance of Jorge would not validate his papacy (i.e. provide a sanatio) ... as many would believe.
But the Bennyvacantists don't address either of these problems. They won't and/or can't think beyond the "Jorge is not the pope" proposition.
Heretics/Apostates can't hold office in the first place.
Bull of Pope Paul IV — cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio, 1559
“Further, if ever it should appear that any bishop (even one acting as an archbishop, patriarch or primate), or a cardinal of the Roman Church, or a legate (as mentioned above), or even the Roman Pontiff (whether prior to his promotion to cardinal, or prior to his election as Roman Pontiff), has beforehand deviated from the Catholic faith or fallen into any heresy, We enact, decree, determine and define:
— “Such promotion or election in and of itself, even with the agreement and unanimous consent of all the cardinals, shall be null, legally invalid and void.
— “It shall not be possible for such a promotion or election to be deemed valid or to be valid, neither through reception of office, consecration, subsequent administration, or possession, nor even through the putative enthronement of a Roman Pontiff himself, together with the veneration and obedience accorded him by all.
— “Such promotion or election, shall not through any lapse of tune in the foregoing situation, be considered even partially legitimate in any way . . .
— “Each and all of the words, as acts, laws, appointments of those so promoted or elected —and indeed, whatsoever flows therefrom — shall be lacking in force, and shall grant no stability and legal power to anyone whatsoever.
— “Those so promoted or elected, by that very fact and without the need to make any further declaration, shall be deprived of any dignity, position, honor, title, authority, office and power.”
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But no worries, he secretly appointed Vigano as the next pope.
Benedict or Bergoglio?
I understand not everyone in the "Resistance" is enamored with +Vigano.
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Benedict or Bergoglio?
I understand not everyone in the "Resistance" is enamored with +Vigano.
My suspicion is that the narrative could be that Benedict secretly appointed Vigano as pope before he died.
Just a hunch.
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I would imagine that St. Peter let it be known that Linus would make a good successor, but that the college of bishops elected a new pope at the death of St. Peter in 69.A.D. It is interesting that St. Peter did not choose St. John the Divine as his successor, as he was Our Lady's priest and obviously still living.
But it seems that many Catholics have this mistaken idea that the college of Cardinals is incapable of electing a malicious bishop, and I do not see it. Going back to the Siri thesis, if Siri was elected, but told the Cardinal dean, "non accepto," because he felt his life was threatened, and then the cardinals said to themselves, "Well, we know that Siri is a good candidate, and he is conservative, but the liberals will probably kill him, so we are going to elect Roncalli, even though he is a liberal." Why is this not a valid election? At the end of the day, if the cardinals are liberal, then we are stuck with a liberal pope. The only escape from this dilemma is to pray harder for an orthodox pope.
These modern popes present a special difficulty because of the new rites of priesthood and episcopal consecration.
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I would imagine that St. Peter let it be known that Linus would make a good successor, but that the college of bishops elected a new pope at the death of St. Peter in 69.A.D. It is interesting that St. Peter did not choose St. John the Divine as his successor, as he was Our Lady's priest and obviously still living.
But it seems that many Catholics have this mistaken idea that the college of Cardinals is incapable of electing a malicious bishop, and I do not see it. Going back to the Siri thesis, if Siri was elected, but told the Cardinal dean, "non accepto," because he felt his life was threatened, and then the cardinals said to themselves, "Well, we know that Siri is a good candidate, and he is conservative, but the liberals will probably kill him, so we are going to elect Roncalli, even though he is a liberal." Why is this not a valid election? At the end of the day, if the cardinals are liberal, then we are stuck with a liberal pope. The only escape from this dilemma is to pray harder for an orthodox pope.
These modern popes present a special difficulty because of the new rites of priesthood and episcopal consecration.
After some further reading, it seems that the Pope was always selected by the clergy of the city of Rome.
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Linus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Linus) :
The Liber Pontificalis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liber_Pontificalis)[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Linus#cite_note-8) also enumerated Linus as the second bishop of Rome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_of_Rome) after Peter, and stated that Peter consecrated two bishops, Linus and Anacletus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anacletus), for the priestly service of the community...
Also, the early Popes were usually part of the clergy of Rome, so it would not make sense to choose St. John the Apostle, since he was living in the region that is present day Turkey, if I am not mistaken.
St. John seems to me to be more of a contemplative. He probably was not fit for the Papacy. I see him as someone who was more in Heaven than in the Earth when I read his writings. He was probably the holiest of all the Apostles.
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But it seems that many Catholics have this mistaken idea that the college of Cardinals is incapable of electing a malicious bishop, and I do not see it.
We aren't talking about a "malicious" bishop.
They weren't bishops at all and therefore neither were they popes:
(https://i.imgur.com/X0nAyWV.png)
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My suspicion is that the narrative could be that Benedict secretly appointed Vigano as pope before he died.
Just a hunch.
:facepalm:
Do have nightly dreams about +Vigano and Trump?
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:facepalm:
Do have nightly dreams about +Vigano and Trump?
Says the Sedevacantist who wants Vigano to be pope. :P
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Pius X delivered a hammer blow:
"It took three centuries for the Church to evolve. The Jews therefore had time to acknowledge his divinity without any pressure. But they haven't done so to this day."
Check mate.
Yes, I also like this part:
And I have always been on good terms with Jews. Only the other evening two Jews were here to see me. After all, there are other bonds than those of religion: courtesy and philanthropy. These we do not deny to the Jews. Indeed, we also pray for them: that their minds be enlightened. This very day the Church is celebrating the feast of an unbeliever who, on the road to Damascus, became miraculously converted to the true faith. And so, if you come to Palestine and settle your people there, we shall have churches and priests ready to baptize all of you."
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Says the Sedevacantist who wants Vigano to be pope. :P
I'm not the one who somehow thinks of and brings up +Vigano and/or Trump on every single thread, whether or not it has anything whatsoever to do with them.
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Yes, I also like this part:
And I have always been on good terms with Jєωs. Only the other evening two Jєωs were here to see me. After all, there are other bonds than those of religion: courtesy and philanthropy. These we do not deny to the Jєωs. Indeed, we also pray for them: that their minds be enlightened. This very day the Church is celebrating the feast of an unbeliever who, on the road to Damascus, became miraculously converted to the true faith. And so, if you come to Palestine and settle your people there, we shall have churches and priests ready to baptize all of you."
Yes, that's great too.
It's hard to imagine there was actually a pope who was so forthright and strong about the faith, and didn't care a bit about watering it down because of "politics."
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Shucks... I thought the OP was about the founder of the terrorist zionist state ? :popcorn:
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRu4Oz8H467Oh54IhafR78m_dPb7tgopXGYvw&usqp=CAU)
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Shucks... I thought the OP was about the founder of ... :popcorn:
Yeah, I expected it to be about Theodor Herzl's Audience with Pope Pius X in 1904. What a fool I am.
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Yeah, I expected it to be about Theodor Herzl's Audience with Pope Pius X in 1904. What a fool I am.
Essentially, they told the jew-boy to hit the road...
(https://cdnarautos.s3.amazonaws.com/sites/2/2021/02/R230-D-HAG_Sao-Pio-X-e-seu-secretario-de-estado.jpg)
Pope St. Pius X and Secretary of State, Cardinal Merry del Val defended the Church's policy of non possumus to the emerging movement of political Zionism, stating that, as long as the Jews denied the divinity of Christ, then the Church could not legitimately make declarations in their favour.
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Consider how correct St. Pope Pius X and Cardinal Merry de Val were in opposing the fake state of Israel.
Israel drops white phosphorus on Gaza civilians
(https://foreignpolicy.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/white-phosphorus-israel-gaza-GettyImages-1718787682.jpg?w=1000)
Netanya erases Palestine from the Middle East map
(https://cdn.siasat.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Netanyahu-presents-map.jpg)
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I would imagine that St. Peter let it be known that Linus would make a good successor, but that the college of bishops elected a new pope at the death of St. Peter in 69.A.D. It is interesting that St. Peter did not choose St. John the Divine as his successor, as he was Our Lady's priest and obviously still living.
But it seems that many Catholics have this mistaken idea that the college of Cardinals is incapable of electing a malicious bishop, and I do not see it. Going back to the Siri thesis, if Siri was elected, but told the Cardinal dean, "non accepto," because he felt his life was threatened, and then the cardinals said to themselves, "Well, we know that Siri is a good candidate, and he is conservative, but the liberals will probably kill him, so we are going to elect Roncalli, even though he is a liberal." Why is this not a valid election? At the end of the day, if the cardinals are liberal, then we are stuck with a liberal pope. The only escape from this dilemma is to pray harder for an orthodox pope.
These modern popes present a special difficulty because of the new rites of priesthood and episcopal consecration.
When there is a plot to intimidate a new, validly elected Pope, who has accepted the Seat and taken a papal name, that Conclave is invalidated.
And no alternate papal candidate is valid until the injustices from the breached Conclave are rectified by the College of electing Cardinals.
In 1958, Roncali held the Conclave Cardinals to an oath of secrecy. Highly irregular. Cardinal Siri spoke of this oath not long before his death.
It appears Cardinal Siri won the 1963 Conclave, again with “White smoke”, but was put aside.
By 1978, he was still the favorite but by this time ecclesiastical masonry had perfected the rigged papal election.
(https://i.imgur.com/7oF5DxR.jpg)
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Louie brought this up recently also.
https://akacatholic.com/judaism-zionism-and-the-errors-of-russia/