Author Topic: The reason feminism is winning (Read 9839 times)

Telesphorus · « **on:** April 28, 2012, 09:23:49 PM »

Feminism has many causes. But there are some root causes for our deep susceptibility to it.

We can't control the media, the culture, we can't control the laws. Those things have long since passed out from under any serious influence by Catholics.

But we can control our attitudes about the respective roles of men and women, and we can maintain a sense of justice. And it is in this area that the enemies of the Catholic family are doing the most damage to us. Causing many Catholics to struggle to preserve the faith and families of their children.

There are three main problems with the views about women that most Catholics have these days. These problems became especially pronounced in first wave feminism, during Victorian times.

1) The first problem is the existence of delusional beliefs about the sɛҳuąƖity of women. Lax morals and a desire to not hold women accountable by men who feel guilty for their past conduct is a problem for some, and naivety and lack of awareness is a problem for others. And of course women practice a great deal of native dissimulation in these matters. Pretending that women are more virtuous than they are, generally speaking, is extremely dangerous to young men. It leads them to accept dangerous marriages. To marry unsuitable women, with delusional ideas as to the real character of women. It causes young men to approach women the wrong way, and therefore to fail to be successful with them. And it leads to false accusations against men whom women try to seduce. Devout Christian men are not able to compete easily for wives in this society, and find themselves getting the third degree from the very people who should be on their side.

2) The second is the belief that women are not to be held responsible for their conduct. This removes all check on women's bad behavior. It's that reason why men are blamed whenever women fall. It's that reason, deep down, that there is not serious opposition to abortion.

3) The final reason is that the ideal of marriage and family as the highest end of woman in the natural order is not truly believed or practiced. Instead the bourgeois values of the accomplished, successful, independent woman is implicitly accepted.

These attitudes will destroy the Catholic family unless they are systematically countered.

I recommend anyone who wishes to understand the roots of these problem to read E. Belford Bax's The Legal Subjection of Men.

Feminism and its problems have been with this society longer than most suspect. The problem was somewhat masked among Catholics when the pre-Vatican II church was still exercising some influence on the morality of young women.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Legal_Subjection_of_Men
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ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #1 on:** April 28, 2012, 10:10:01 PM »

Excellent post, Tele.

God Bless.

Thursday · « **Reply #2 on:** April 29, 2012, 02:20:20 AM »

What a lot of people miss is that it was the dad's who picked up on feminism and raised their little girls to be doctors and business women and soccer players instead of wives and mothers.

I've seen too many cases of this to discount. In asia its still much more important that the son gets into a good university etc. as they are still seen in their traditional role as the provider for the family.

I know some of these dad's were very good hard working guys but they are a big reason why feminism flourished.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #3 on:** April 29, 2012, 02:51:47 AM »

Quote from: Thursday

What a lot of people miss is that it was the dad's who picked up on feminism and raised their little girls to be doctors and business women and soccer players instead of wives and mothers.

A silly pride in daddy's little girl and a kind of irrational jealousy of thinking that somehow honorable marriage contanimates her, and prevents her from being a little innocent Jєωel of success and achievement. A man with an accomplished daughter, who might all sorts of problems, gets social esteem, but a man with a daughter married young is scorned.

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I know some of these dad's were very good hard working guys but they are a big reason why feminism flourished.

Absolutely. Their collaboration is absolutely necessary for the triumph of feminism. It comes down to their vanity.

Thursday · « **Reply #4 on:** April 29, 2012, 06:01:03 AM »

I'm not so critical, the feminist movement got a lot of devotees because a lot of men treated women like dirt. Being from a blue collar town I'm sure my dad saw a lot of it growing up and was pretty determined not to let his daughters grow up to be "doormats". I mean I remember when I was young one of my close friend's had to move because his dad just just up and said I don't want to be married anymore. That happened to quite a few kids I knew. Of course, feminism is not the answer but you can see how someone with good intentions could get behind it, plus we know more about feminism now, and who was behind it ie Gloria Steinam CIA agent, buddies with Zibigniew Brezinski.

Caraffa · « **Reply #5 on:** April 29, 2012, 06:48:30 PM »

Quote from: Thursday

What a lot of people miss is that it was the dad's who picked up on feminism and raised their little girls to be doctors and business women and soccer players instead of wives and mothers.

Yes, you see this a lot these days. Men embrace feminism for selfish reasons as well. After all they like having their wife work and their daughter permanently out of the house at 18 so that they can have more money and things for themselves.

Feminism serves two kinds of people in this world, bad men and bad women.

Zenith · « **Reply #6 on:** April 30, 2012, 07:54:16 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Devout Christian men are not able to compete easily for wives in this society, and find themselves getting the third degree from the very people who should be on their side.

In my experience with girl who attend traditional chapels, I found good ones who simply want to marry but can't find a spouse because of the small number of men and the same goes for men trying to find wives. I also have come across a few girls who have feministic thinking but they are not the majority. I only went after girls who were not the career type and were just sweet and feminine. I have never had the third degree from anyone either.

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2) The second is the belief that women are not to be held responsible for their conduct. This removes all check on women's bad behavior. It's that reason why men are blamed whenever women fall. It's that reason, deep down, that there is not serious opposition to abortion.

I can't figure out if you are speaking of girl in the world in gerneral or of girls in the tradional world. Which are you refering to?
Can you give specific examples of how women in the tradional world are not held responsible for their conduct? Can you also give specific examples of occasions when men were blamed and girls got away with bad behavior?

Telesphorus · « **Reply #7 on:** April 30, 2012, 03:52:33 PM »

Quote from: Zenith

In my experience with girl who attend traditional chapels, I found good ones who simply want to marry but can't find a spouse because of the small number of men and the same goes for men trying to find wives. I also have come across a few girls who have feministic thinking but they are not the majority. I only went after girls who were not the career type and were just sweet and feminine. I have never had the third degree from anyone either.

There are different types of girls and different types of parents but you should not imagine that women are as traditional as they appear, assume that they are as incapable of finding a mate among Catholics as they claim to be, or believe that the fact that Catholic suitors aren't very often given the third degree by the girl's parents. Sometimes the people who seem very nice and welcoming can turn on a dime. And some people are just flat out paranoid from the very beginning.

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I can't figure out if you are speaking of girl in the world in gerneral or of girls in the tradional world. Which are you refering to?
Can you give specific examples of how women in the tradional world are not held responsible for their conduct? Can you also give specific examples of occasions when men were blamed and girls got away with bad behavior?

If you're ever involved in a conflict with women you'll understand whose word is generally believed and who is given impunity to lie.

The views and attitudes of the general society affect Traditional Catholics more than you realize. Hopefully you'll never see the consequences of it. But having good experiences of so far doesn't mean you see the complete reality. Dealing with feminism is kind of like living in a bad neighborhood. Some people will get along fine and not be victimized, and wonder why others are so unhappy.

Read the E Belford Bax link I posted.

Zenith · « **Reply #8 on:** May 01, 2012, 03:22:03 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

There are different types of girls and different types of parents but you should not imagine that women are as traditional as they appear,

I am not naive and I know there are good and bad in all groups though why should I assume something wrong in someone when I have no concrete evidence to base it on? Isn't it the Catholic way and charitable to assume the best in someone until you have good reason not to?

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Sometimes the people who seem very nice and welcoming can turn on a dime. And some people are just flat out paranoid from the very beginning.

To me you seem to be paranoid. First you say that someone can turn on a dime. But why would I think that when I have no basis for believing it? If I was to think that, then yes I would be paranoid.

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If you're ever involved in a conflict with women you'll understand whose word is generally believed and who is given impunity to lie.

I have a girlfriend and have had a previous girlfriend and a sister and I am well aware of how they act. Again I ask you if you are talking about in the world in general or in traditional circles? This is more true of some women in the world because they are worldly and maybe it is true in a minority of cases in trad circles. You are basing your beliefs on your own experiences which is a natural thing to do and all of us do it but I can assure you that your experiences are not all that common in trad circles. Over all my experiences with girls/women in trad circles have been good. I have come across those who I don't think much of and I just avoid them.

I know quite a few trad girls and I would consider a lot of them good potential wives who just want to marry and settle down. They simply can't find men because trad circles are small I have found that some men in trad circles are a little strange and don't know how to relate to women and tend to be over keen/desperate and turn the girls away. Also another factor is that growing up with guys you know well and are not related to in a trad group can kill off romance. Romance is far more easily kindled when you see someone you don't know and there is that mysterious feeling of not knowing and wanting to get to know them.

Feminism does exist in trad circles in milder forms but I think you make it out to be bigger than it is due to your own bad experiences.

I would advise you to treat everyone equally and give them the benefit of the doubt out of charity and when you do that, people will also react differently and treat you better.

Do you have a girlfriend or have you had a girlfriend before?

Also can you answer my previous question below?

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Can you give specific examples of how women in the tradional world are not held responsible for their conduct? Can you also give specific examples of occasions when men were blamed and girls got away with bad behavior?

egoveritas · « **Reply #9 on:** May 01, 2012, 06:35:44 AM »

Quote from: Zenith

Quote from: Telesphorus
There are different types of girls and different types of parents but you should not imagine that women are as traditional as they appear,

I am not naive and I know there are good and bad in all groups though why should I assume something wrong in someone when I have no concrete evidence to base it on? Isn't it the Catholic way and charitable to assume the best in someone until you have good reason not to?

Quote
Sometimes the people who seem very nice and welcoming can turn on a dime. And some people are just flat out paranoid from the very beginning.

To me you seem to be paranoid. First you say that someone can turn on a dime. But why would I think that when I have no basis for believing it? If I was to think that, then yes I would be paranoid.

Quote
If you're ever involved in a conflict with women you'll understand whose word is generally believed and who is given impunity to lie.

I have a girlfriend and have had a previous girlfriend and a sister and I am well aware of how they act. Again I ask you if you are talking about in the world in general or in traditional circles? This is more true of some women in the world because they are worldly and maybe it is true in a minority of cases in trad circles. You are basing your beliefs on your own experiences which is a natural thing to do and all of us do it but I can assure you that your experiences are not all that common in trad circles. Over all my experiences with girls/women in trad circles have been good. I have come across those who I don't think much of and I just avoid them.

I know quite a few trad girls and I would consider a lot of them good potential wives who just want to marry and settle down. They simply can't find men because trad circles are small I have found that some men in trad circles are a little strange and don't know how to relate to women and tend to be over keen/desperate and turn the girls away. Also another factor is that growing up with guys you know well and are not related to in a trad group can kill off romance. Romance is far more easily kindled when you see someone you don't know and there is that mysterious feeling of not knowing and wanting to get to know them.

Feminism does exist in trad circles in milder forms but I think you make it out to be bigger than it is due to your own bad experiences.

I would advise you to treat everyone equally and give them the benefit of the doubt out of charity and when you do that, people will also react differently and treat you better.

Do you have a girlfriend or have you had a girlfriend before?

Also can you answer my previous question below?

Quote
Can you give specific examples of how women in the tradional world are not held responsible for their conduct? Can you also give specific examples of occasions when men were blamed and girls got away with bad behavior?

Have you read this whole thread? If not I suggest it and you will see why Tele generalizes all women as carnal, as being nothing but pleasure seekers and making men weak. The reason he thinks this is because he liked a 17 yr old who didn't know him, even though he states she would smile and blush at him. So he assumed that she liked him and says she felt the same and when she found out he thought they liked each other she told him to never speak to her again. He is obsessed with the idea of finding a teen virgin eventhough he is 34, at the time he was 31. There is nothing wrong with wanting a good girl but when he made up fantasy that she liked him bases souly on her blushing and smiles that's when he got creepy. It's no use trying to talk to him about his views on woman because he purely a narcissist and a chauvinist and refuses to believe in the equality and respect of all Gods children.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #10 on:** May 01, 2012, 07:04:37 AM »

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They simply can't find men because trad circles are small I have found that some men in trad circles are a little strange and don't know how to relate to women and tend to be over keen/desperate and turn the girls away

Trads are "strange" and "can't relate to women."

Those are excuses and rationalizations, and you fall for them.

I've heard of other people's experiences. Even with some of the most seriously religious girls. They and their parents have a real problem.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #11 on:** May 01, 2012, 07:09:30 AM »

Quote from: egoveritas

So he assumed that she liked him and says she felt the same and when she found out he thought they liked each other she told him to never speak to her again.

You need to stop making things up.

She never said that to me. She's never said anything about anything to me (except in the presence of her father and the priest) outside of a statement that was clearly recited as what she had agreed to say. They never let me have a conversation with her, she left the room almost immediately when I was asking her some questions after a couple denials. The presence of the priest and her father. She was forbidden from speaking to me the week after we met. If anything's creepy, it's that.

Now I suggest you stop bringing up my situation to harass me.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #12 on:** May 01, 2012, 07:16:21 AM »

I chat with women a great deal. They often like talking to me, more than I enjoy talking with them, and a few bother me often. Trad men are not "strange" no stranger than Trad women. The difficulty with dealing with nearly all religiously raised girls in this propagandized society is caused by much more serious problem than social awkwardness.

egoveritas · « **Reply #13 on:** May 01, 2012, 07:16:23 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote from: egoveritas
So he assumed that she liked him and says she felt the same and when she found out he thought they liked each other she told him to never speak to her again.

You need to stop making things up.

She never said that to me. She's never said anything about anything to me (except in the presence of her father and the priest) outside of a statement that was clearly recited as what she had agreed to say. They never let me have a conversation with her, she left the room almost immediately when I was asking her some questions after a couple denials. The presence of the priest and her father. She was forbidden from speaking to me the week after we met. If anything's creepy, it's that.

Now I suggest you stop bringing up my situation to harass me.

Your the one who brought it up, you the one who told me everything and your the one that said she told you not to speak to her ever again. And that last post by you had everything to do with it.

egoveritas · « **Reply #14 on:** May 01, 2012, 07:17:55 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

I chat with women a great deal. They often like talking to me, more than I enjoy talking with them, and a few bother me often. Trad men are not "strange" no stranger than Trad women. The difficulty with dealing with nearly all religiously raised girls in this propagandized society is caused by much more serious problem than social awkwardness.

I can only laugh at such a statement! HAHAHA