Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: The problem with books...  (Read 9872 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Traditional Guy 20

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3427
  • Reputation: +1662/-48
  • Gender: Male
The problem with books...
« on: December 31, 2013, 04:08:30 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • People became quite outraged with my earlier comment about books so let me make myself clear here. Some people see books not quite in the same category as movies, plays, or straight-up pornography. This is not the case. Books, especially in the past 300 years or more have been the seeds of epic social change, mostly bad I might add. So let me prove my argument by again bringing up the list from the Modern Library and working my way on down to see the vile aspects of the books listed.

    Tobacco Road (1932) by Erskine Caldwell

    This book here promotes socialism, the end of the way of life, depressing thoughts about sex, religion (i.e. while not being completely atheist, it promotes doubts that God cares for His people), class warfare, etc. promotes lustful actions by the lustful situations described, etc.

    Erskine Caldwell wrote back in the 1930's and was way ahead of his time bringing to light breaking commentary about class, race, religion, etc. which would be used again later on in the 1960's.

    Needless to say even though Erskine Caldwell grew up in the South he became politically socialist, and served as a war correspondent for the Soviet Union during World War II.


    Offline Sigismund

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5386
    • Reputation: +3121/-44
    • Gender: Male
    The problem with books...
    « Reply #1 on: December 31, 2013, 10:04:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • There are bad books.  Avoid them by all means.  There are good ones too.  Why avoid them by any means?
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir


    Offline Thorn

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1188
    • Reputation: +710/-81
    • Gender: Female
    The problem with books...
    « Reply #2 on: December 31, 2013, 10:38:37 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Trad Guy, all you'd have to do is read the reviews or even the first few chapters to know how bad it was & put it down & get a good book.  Why would you read such a book?  Was it required reading in a public school or something?
    There is no end of good books to read.  I can't find the time to read all the good books on my list.
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14

    Offline Frances

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2660
    • Reputation: +2241/-22
    • Gender: Female
    The problem with books...
    « Reply #3 on: December 31, 2013, 10:53:41 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •  :dancing-banana:
    I think the internet has largely replaced books, magazines, and newspapers, and also TV as THE source of communication and "culture" in most of the world.  Agree?  Happy New Year in 7 minutes from New York!
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  

    Offline Thorn

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1188
    • Reputation: +710/-81
    • Gender: Female
    The problem with books...
    « Reply #4 on: December 31, 2013, 10:59:57 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • But I still like the feel & smell of books over the TV.  I get more out of a book than a movie.
    Happy New Year!
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14


    Offline Frances

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2660
    • Reputation: +2241/-22
    • Gender: Female
    The problem with books...
    « Reply #5 on: December 31, 2013, 11:38:11 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •  :dancing-banana: :reading:
    Agree, wholeheartedly!  Curling up beside the campfire or fireplace with the TV blaring or a mouse just loses something.  Honestly, though, this little tablet isn't bad.  Still isn't as cozy as a favorite old book!
    Happy New Year (from NY) and Good Night!
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  

    Offline Nadir

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 11673
    • Reputation: +6996/-498
    • Gender: Female
    The problem with books...
    « Reply #6 on: December 31, 2013, 11:53:23 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Traditional Guy 20
    People became quite outraged with my earlier comment about books


    Missed it. Got a link?

    Quote from: Traditional Guy 20
    So let me prove my argument by again bringing up the list from the Modern Library and working my way on down to see the vile aspects of the books listed.

    Tobacco Road (1932) by Erskine Caldwell



    A list of one? One bad book.

    Have you ever read a good book?

    I'm with Thorn and Frances. Nothing can replace a good book!
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Mithrandylan

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4452
    • Reputation: +5061/-436
    • Gender: Male
    The problem with books...
    « Reply #7 on: January 01, 2014, 06:34:56 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The problem with Traditional Guy 20 is...

    He's saying two completely different things, and instead of realizing it and saying just one thing (that is easy to agree with, namely that many if not most modern books are trash) he continues to maligns books categorically, and then when someone points out how ridiculous a claim that is, he changes his line momentarily and then goes back to categorical condemnations.

    Quote from: Traditional Guy 20
    Well it was along those lines yes, but it is the truth of the matter. Nice guys finish last. Only men with the strength, brutality and determination can win in a fight.

    I'd also like to add being "well-read" means nothing, especially since 99% of books are garbage.


    A rash statement if there ever was one, colored by an inability to look past the current wave of modernity.

    A bit less rash would be this qualification:

    Quote from: Traditional Guy 20
    Can you name a book (besides the Bible of course) that is worth reading? I can think of a few but definitely not the vast marketplace of books they have these days.


    Yes, the current "marketplace" is flooded with literature that is largely a waste of time, but this qualification is different than the one given in this thread, which is titled "The Problem with books... published in the last 300 years or so."  

    I'm not going to argue against that statement since I don't know how a person could quantify such a thing (especially with the advent of the internet, where many "books" are published exclusively online via Kindle and similar avenues, and go largely unknown.

    Nevertheless, if one was to look at the Conciliar Revolution and backtrack three hundred or two hundred and fifty years, the Church has always been responsible for producing fine and consistent authors and works, whether it be devotional or scientific (the vast array of dogmatic, moral and sacramental theology texts, innumerable treatises on very specific controversies, or even publications like the AER).  

    Until the Conciliar Revolution, Catholic works have at least been "keeping up" with modern works, that is, modern works that don't belong on a person's bookshelf.

    But even afterwards, when the scale was obviously tipped in favor of trash books, those within Catholic Tradition have continued to publish (and even re-publish) books about the faith, and enough to keep the normal person occupied.

    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).


    Offline Traditional Guy 20

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3427
    • Reputation: +1662/-48
    • Gender: Male
    The problem with books...
    « Reply #8 on: January 01, 2014, 07:23:13 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Thorn
    But I still like the feel & smell of books over the TV.  I get more out of a book than a movie.
    Happy New Year!


    Books can have vile things in them too, just like television so perhaps it is not good to get "something out of it."

    Offline Traditional Guy 20

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3427
    • Reputation: +1662/-48
    • Gender: Male
    The problem with books...
    « Reply #9 on: January 01, 2014, 07:25:00 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    The problem with Traditional Guy 20 is...


    I've been meaning to say this to you for a while now but the problem with you is you are a hippie; why deny it? :wink:

    Offline Traditional Guy 20

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3427
    • Reputation: +1662/-48
    • Gender: Male
    The problem with books...
    « Reply #10 on: January 01, 2014, 07:40:17 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Continuing on next down the line...

    Ironweed (1983) by William Kennedy

    This book has drunkeness, sex, vulgarity, blasphemy, etc. set during the Depression.


    Offline Traditional Guy 20

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3427
    • Reputation: +1662/-48
    • Gender: Male
    The problem with books...
    « Reply #11 on: January 01, 2014, 07:47:21 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Thorn
    Trad Guy, all you'd have to do is read the reviews or even the first few chapters to know how bad it was & put it down & get a good book.  Why would you read such a book?  Was it required reading in a public school or something?
    There is no end of good books to read.  I can't find the time to read all the good books on my list.


    Can you name this mythical list of tons of "good books"?


    Offline icterus

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 713
    • Reputation: +0/-17
    • Gender: Male
    The problem with books...
    « Reply #12 on: January 01, 2014, 08:00:06 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Yes, books sometimes have depictions of sins in them.  I think the question to ask here is:

    What is a harmful depiction of sin?  

    Shakespeare's plays have many depictions of sin.  However, if a Catholic is so lacking in self-control that he is unable to read Shakespeare without being overcome with rage, or lust, and is actually in danger of committing a sin because of this reading...how will he deal with any external stimuli at all?

    So, for example, Shakespeare's plays are valuable (and here I'm breaking this waaay down to the most basic elements, and leaving aside all of the artistic virtues)  in one way because he deals with so many human motivations and his characters are excellent studies in human frailty and become social shorthand for human archetypes.  Many scenes encapsulate an aspect of the human condition in a way perhaps no other author has.  If it is a good to learn about human nature, then it is good to learn human nature from Shakespeare.  

    If reading the phrase 'the beast with two backs' would inflame you and tempt you to unchastity, then I suggest the problem is not with literature, but rather with you and a poor formation.  

    Further, consider the plight of the priest.  He is expected to be the holiest among us...and yet he is also expected to be de-sensitized to depictions of sins in the confessional.  He is expected, through his formation, to be able to hear vile things, and not be unduly tempted by them.  He does this for a good purpose, the absolution of sins.  

    Everyone is expected to have self-control, to be able to receive an external stimuli without it necessarily causing us to immediately fall into sin, nor for every idea we hear or read to change our worldview without the involvement of our will.  

    Lastly, the inability to discern the difference between literature and pornography is just indicative of a poor environment.  Young people are not expected to become formed all by themselves.  You post as if from a desert island.  In order to become a well-formed Catholic adult, your reading should be guided by a faithful teacher.  The more educated should guide the less educated and help select good books until the student is able to do so for himself.

    The problem is not with books, it is with you.  It is most likely not your fault, particularly if you don't have a teacher, but that's the way it is.  

    Offline Traditional Guy 20

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3427
    • Reputation: +1662/-48
    • Gender: Male
    The problem with books...
    « Reply #13 on: January 01, 2014, 08:25:36 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: icterus
    What is a harmful depiction of sin?


    Obviously a book that describes horrible things quite vividly.

    Quote
    The problem is not with books, it is with you.  It is most likely not your fault, particularly if you don't have a teacher, but that's the way it is.  


    Of course how prudish of me. :rolleyes: Maybe I just realize that reading all kinds of books is the same as looking at a television show or movie from Hollywood? Reading certain books is the same as picking up a porn magazine and getting a rush of emotion off of that.

    Continuing on down the line:

    The Magus (1966) by John Fowles

    This book has magic realism, bizarre sɛҳuąƖ scenes and acts, delusions, trouble discerning what is real and what is not, etc.

    Offline Thorn

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1188
    • Reputation: +710/-81
    • Gender: Female
    The problem with books...
    « Reply #14 on: January 01, 2014, 12:40:32 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Earth to Trad Guy!  What planet are you on currently?

    Who reads ALL kinds of books?!  I grew up in an era where 'discriminating' was considered a virtue.
    I don't read ALL kinds of books.  I only read good books.  Neither do I watch EVERYTHING on TV.  I only watch the good stuff.  

    As for a "mythical"(??)  list of good books - there's a tiny booklet of only 32 pages packed with a list of  authors and books called "Catholic Authors 4-Sight Edition".  Look the lists up yourself - it'll give you something better to do with your time.

    Blanche Jennings Thompson says, "We Become What We Read"   "The health of a country depends on what's in the heads & hearts of the people in it.  A country collapses that is full of weak minds & faint hearts.  And minds become what authors put into them;  A MAN BECOMES WHAT HE READS."
    [emphasis mine]

    An excellent book that I read years ago was  "The Less Traveled Road" by Rev. M. Raymond, O.C.S.O.   I couldn't put that book down.  A wonderful author!!

    Another book that I couldn't put down & in a completely different vein was by Gerald Frank and was about the Boston Strangler.  No graphic sex or violence but you just had to keep turning the pages to see what happened next.   Very interesting true story.

    Sooo - why are you feeding on pure trash when there's a feast to behold?  and more excellent books that would take 10 lifetimes to consume?  I don't get it.
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14