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Author Topic: The Precursor vs The Mark  (Read 8745 times)

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Offline Miser Peccator

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Re: The Precursor vs The Mark
« Reply #75 on: December 02, 2021, 10:55:15 AM »
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  • What does this have to do with ANYTHING that I or DigitalLogos have been talking about?  What does your quote have to do with the title of this thread?  :facepalm:

    You did give me the face slap emoji! :D

    Just that the timeline is different.  

    The whole world becomes Catholic after the AC, not before.

    That will be the time of the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, not before the ac and then a falling away and then back again for the last round scenario.

    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon


    Offline Marion

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    Re: The Precursor vs The Mark
    « Reply #76 on: December 02, 2021, 11:43:07 AM »
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  • Here's my take on the beast, the mark, on Chapter 13 of The Apocalypse of St. John. It's free from the influence of private revelation, based on the literature of the Church, and my own contemporary observations.



    Summary:

    In the last days, all the rivers of history run together into one big river delta. There will be a beast which integrates the four beasts of Daniel, i.e. an empire which integrates the characteristics of the empires of history. The false Catholics will adore it, and they’ll adore the devil who is giving power to the empire. The empire is given “a mouth speaking great things”, i.e. a new false church of a new pentecost. The god or idol of the new religion is man. Man is adoring man instead of God.


    Structure:

    Part I: Overview version of the story (Rev 13:1-8)
    Part II: Admonition (Rev 13:9-10)
    Part III: Recapitulation of the story (Rev 13:11-17)
    Part IV: Admonition (Rev 13:18)


    Keys to interpretation:

    water/sea: not even called, non-Catholics, sects, pagans
    earth: called but not elect, false/untrue Catholics, not written in the book (lukewarm/liberal/modernist/hypocrites)
    heaven: called and elect, true Catholics, written in the book
    beast: social body with a head, empire


    Part I:

    Quote
    Rev 13:1
     And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten diadems, and upon his heads names of blasphemy.

    The Holy Roman Empire began with the coronation of Charlemagne by Pope Leo III in Rome on Christmas Day, 25th of December, A.D. 800. It was defeated a thousand years later, when the Holy Roman Emperor, Francis II of Austria, requested an armistice on Christmas Day, 25th of December, A.D. 1800, after a crushing victory of Napoléon Bonaparte at the battle of Hohenlinden near Munich.

    Napoléon is the first emperor of the beast coming out of the sea, the resurrected ancient pagan Roman Res Publica. He isn’t crowned by the Pope, rather, in an ostentatious symbolic act rejects the crown of Charlemagne, already wearing a golden diadem. The final battle of the devil, who was loosed after having been bound for a thousand years (Rev 20:2-7), had begun.


    Quote
    Rev 13:2
     And the beast, which I saw, was like to a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his own strength, and great power.

    The kabbalistic, freemasonic, capitalist, communist beast shows the aspects of all the beasts of Daniel, and is powered by the devil.


    Quote
    Rev 13:3
     And I saw one of his heads as it were slain to death: and his death’s wound was healed. And all the earth was in admiration after the beast.

    The pagan Roman Empire is the last of the four beasts of Daniel. It had been conquered by Christendom, and was thought to have been overcome. But after a thousand years it came up again, out of the pagan sea, and the false Catholics, earthbound not heavenbound, were full of admiration of the resurrected Republic. It’s the “beast which … was, and is not, and shall come up out of the bottomless pit …” (Rev 17:8).


    Quote
    Rev 13:4
     And they adored the dragon, which gave power to the beast: and they adored the beast, saying: Who is like to the beast? and who shall be able to fight with him?

    They are again those who “dwell on earth”, “not written in the book”. Their adoration is marked by ignorance or rejection of the one true King, who will not only fight with but also crush the beast.


    Quote
    Rev 13:5
     And there was given to him a mouth speaking great things, and blasphemies: and power was given to him to do two and forty months.

    The mouth will be shown as a second beast below (Rev 13:11), out of the earth, i.e. a bunch of false Catholics. A false church will be the mouthpiece of the beast, speaking “great things, and blasphemies”. The power comes from the devil, via the beast, to the false church.

    After three and a half years that mouth will be overcome by the mouth of “one like to a son of man” (Rev 1:13). “From his mouth came out a sharp two edged sword” (Rev 1:16). The sword is the Word with two edges, Old and New Testaments.

    The 42 months, 1260 days, three and a half years, a time, and times, and half a time, are the seventy years of the Babylonian captivity looked up by Daniel (Dan 9:2) in Jer 29:10. These are ended when the writing (mane, thecel, phares) appears on the wall (Dan 5:5). Seventy years correspond to “this generation will not pass” (Mt 24:34, Mk 13:30, Lk 21:30).


    Quote
    Rev 13:6
     And he opened his mouth unto blasphemies against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

    This is how the Revelation of St. John spells out, what many today euphemistically call “crisis of the Church”.


    Quote
    Rev 13:7-8
     And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. And power was given him over every tribe, and people, and tongue, and nation. And all that dwell upon the earth adored him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb, which was slain from the beginning of the world.

    Those who are overcome and adore the beast are the false Catholics, who “dwell upon the earth” (and not in heaven), whose names are not written in the book. They’re from all over the world.
    The “inhabitants on the earth” “are not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world” (Rev 17:8) The book of life of the Lamb was written from the beginning of the world, hence the Lamb was slain from the beginning of the world.


    Part II:

    Quote
    Rev 13:9
     If any man have an ear, let him hear.

    Those not written in the book of life may read, but won’t understand.


    Quote
    Rev 13:10
     He that shall lead into captivity, shall go into captivity: he that shall kill by the sword, must be killed by the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

    The false Church leads into captivity/sin and shall be locked up behind the gates of hell.

    The sword is the Word of God, which has two edges, Old and New Testaments. Heretics twist the Word of God and use it to kill, like the rider named Death on the pale horse of Rev 6:8, who “kills with sword, with famine, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.” They will for their part be “slain by the sword of him that sitteth upon the horse, which proceedeth out of his mouth; and all the birds were filled with their flesh.” (Rev 19:21)


    Part III:

    Quote
    Rev 13:11
     And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns, like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.

    Another beast, coming out of the earth, i.e. a bunch of false Catholics, forming a false church, i.e. appearing like a lamb, with Old and New Testaments, but incorporating the mouthpiece of the first beast.


    Quote
    Rev 13:12
     And he executed all the power of the former beast in his sight; and he caused the earth, and them that dwell therein, to adore the first beast, whose wound to death was healed.

    The false church is fully supported and authorized by the pagan empire, and it makes the false Catholics adore the pagan empire, which had been overcome by the true Church, but finally was resurrected.


    Quote
    Rev 13:13
     And he did great signs, so that he made also fire to come down from heaven unto the earth in the sight of men.

    Fire coming down from heaven is the symbol of Pentecost. This new fire coming down from heaven is the symbol of a new, a second pentecost" the symbol of the inauguration of a new false church.

    The Gloss (Glossa Ordinaria, Anselm of Laon et al.) comments on this verse: “Ut apostolis datus est Spiritus sanctus in specie ignis, et sic illi dabunt spiritum malignum in specie ignis.” Just like the Holy Ghost is given to the apostles under the species of fire, so they will give a malicious spirit under the species of fire.

    in the sight of men: to seduce them.


    Quote
    Rev 13:14
     And he seduced them that dwell on the earth, for the signs, which were given him to do in the sight of the beast, saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make the image of the beast, which had the wound by the sword, and lived.

    The Lord allows the false church to seduce the false Catholics. They’re told to make an idol, a statue of the beast, similar to the statue in the dream of Nabuchodonosor (Dan 2:31). The statue of Nabuchodonosor represents four empires, gold, silver, brass, and iron, and the beast represents four empires, leopard, bear, lion, plus the wounded head, the wounded and later resurrected fourth empire.

    To make an image of the beast is to idolize the empire. To put the empire in the place of God. The false Catholics virtually say: “Non habemus Regem, nisi Cæsarem.” (Jn 19:15 we have no king but Caesar), repeating the blasphemy of the Joos.


    Quote
    Rev 13:15
     And it was given him to give life to the image of the beast, and that the image of the beast should speak; and should cause, that whosoever will not adore the image of the beast, should be slain.

    So far, the statue was a mute idol. Now it becomes a living idol, a speaking idol. The beast to be adored is given a mouth to speak. The second beast is giving a mouth, and at the same time is the mouth, that’s given to the beast. The beast now has the appearance of legitimation by God.

    The false Catholics are directed to accept the voice of the beast as the word of God. Montini said: the UNO is our last hope, and today, the false church and the empire preach climate-doom and vaxx-charity.

    slain: like the Lamb, or hopefully only starved, not be allowed to buy or sell (see below).


    Quote
    Rev 13:16
     And he shall make all, both little and great, rich and poor, freemen and bondmen, to have a character in their right hand, or on their foreheads.

    All, whose names are not written in the book. Several Fathers say that the characters refer to confessing the ideas of the beast (forehead) or doing the deeds of the beast (hand). One more explicit way to do this, may be attending the NOM.


    Quote
    Rev 13:17
     And that no man might buy or sell, but he that hath the character, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

    Character means stigma or brand. The brand shows the number and/or the name of the owner. Today it is called company logo. Many big companies today display the number of the beast in their logo. But as mentioned above, a literal brand is not needed for adoration of the beast.

    Not being allowed or able to buy and sell leads to famine (1 Mach 12:36, 1 Mach 13:49). The beast is trying to starve the true Catholics. This is to be understood both literally and spirtually. It is clear that not all true Catholics will be slain or starved, since some will make it to the last of the last days.


    Part IV:

    Quote
    Rev 13:18
     Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast. For it is the number of a man: and the number of him is six hundred sixty-six.

    Some have understood this to be a call to use gematria to compute the name of the beast. But it doesn’t say “compute the name”, it says “compute the number”. Now, the number is already given, it’s six hundred sixty-six. Nothing left to compute. Also: gematria is like reading tea leaves. Not the type of thing we’re expected to do.

    The number of the beast is the number of a man. Is the name of the beast the name of a man, too? Or are there two names? One of the beast, another of a man. But which man?

    Well, the name of the beast is given in Rev 17:5. The harlot has a brand of the beast on her forehead: “And on her forehead a name was written: A mystery; Babylon the great, the mother of the fornications, and the abominations of the earth.” So the name of the beast is Babylon.

    And the “name of a man”? Here is wisdom. … six hundred sixty-six: This reminds of king Solomon, the wisest man on earth ever: “And the weight of the gold, that was brought to Solomon every year, was six hundred and sixty-six talents of gold.” (Chr 9:13, see also Chr 10:14)

    So the names are Babylon (beast), and Solomon (man). And both their numbers are the same: six hundred sixty-six.

    Now, what does it all mean? What does one need the name or the number for? (assuming that no one plans to adore the beast.)


    666

    That’s the “trinity of man”. Man himself is the false god of man, of the church of the beast, the church of the new pentecost.

    Signature of Paul VI:
    Paulus PP IV - (6aulus 66 IV -)



    Babylon

    1 Peter 5:13 “The church that is in Babylon … saluteth you …” Babylon is Rome, the pagan world capital at the time of St Peter. Pagan Rome was resurrected, and Rome has become the seat of the harlot.

    Solomon

    The rites of the freemasons are about the reconstruction of the Temple of Solomon.
    The reconstruction of the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem is expected by many.
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: The Precursor vs The Mark
    « Reply #77 on: December 02, 2021, 12:35:54 PM »
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  • Quote
    Just that the timeline is different.  

    The whole world becomes Catholic after the AC, not before.
    No, it's both.  We are living in the end of the 5th age.  The church's enemies are freemasons and joos.  Our Lady will conquer these enemies, the Church will resurrect from 500 years (since Martin Luther) of heresy, and She will have a period of peace.  The 3rd Holy Roman Empire will conquer the freemasonic republican govts, and the Monarchy will return, to rule the whole world under catholicism.  The joos will not convert, as a religion, but many will convert individually.  Protestantism and muslimism will cease to exist.  The Church will flourish like never before in history.

    When the Holy Monarch dies, then his Empire is split into 10 kingdoms, the antichrist rises to power, the great falling away happens, and we have the end times.

    Quote
    That will be the time of the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, not before the ac and then a falling away and then back again for the last round scenario.
    The antichrist is conquered by Christ, not Our Lady.  After the antichrist is defeated, then all the Jєωs, the entire Jєωιѕн religion, converts back to the Faith.  Then there will be "one Faith, one nation, one baptism" and the entire world will be catholic.  This is the fulfillment of Christ's true Kingship on earth.  Then, the world ends.

    Offline Marion

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    Re: The Precursor vs The Mark
    « Reply #78 on: December 02, 2021, 12:45:12 PM »
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  • After the antichrist is defeated, then all the Jєωs, the entire Jєωιѕн religion, converts back to the Faith.


    The Apostle says that the wicked one is destroyed by Our Lord, with the brightness of his coming. When Our Lord has come, it's over. Seventh trumpet. Time's up. No more time for any conversion.


    Quote from: 2 Thess 2:8-11
    And then that wicked one shall be revealed whom the Lord Jesus shall kill with the spirit of his mouth; and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming, him,

    Whose coming is according to the working of Satan, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders,
    cujus est adventus secundum operationem Satanae in omni virtute, et signis, et prodigiis mendacibus,

    And in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish; because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying:

    That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity.

    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline Angelus

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    Re: The Precursor vs The Mark
    « Reply #79 on: December 02, 2021, 12:46:09 PM »
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  • Here's my take on the beast, the mark, on Chapter 13 of The Apocalypse of St. John. It's free from the influence of private revelation, based on the literature of the Church, and my own contemporary observations.



    Summary:

    In the last days, all the rivers of history run together into one big river delta. There will be a beast which integrates the four beasts of Daniel, i.e. an empire which integrates the characteristics of the empires of history. The false Catholics will adore it, and they’ll adore the devil who is giving power to the empire. The empire is given “a mouth speaking great things”, i.e. a new false church of a new pentecost. The god or idol of the new religion is man. Man is adoring man instead of God.


    Structure:

    Part I: Overview version of the story (Rev 13:1-8)
    Part II: Admonition (Rev 13:9-10)
    Part III: Recapitulation of the story (Rev 13:11-17)
    Part IV: Admonition (Rev 13:18)


    Keys to interpretation:

    water/sea: not even called, non-Catholics, sects, pagans
    earth: called but not elect, false/untrue Catholics, not written in the book (lukewarm/liberal/modernist/hypocrites)
    heaven: called and elect, true Catholics, written in the book
    beast: social body with a head, empire


    Part I:

    The Holy Roman Empire began with the coronation of Charlemagne by Pope Leo III in Rome on Christmas Day, 25th of December, A.D. 800. It was defeated a thousand years later, when the Holy Roman Emperor, Francis II of Austria, requested an armistice on Christmas Day, 25th of December, A.D. 1800, after a crushing victory of Napoléon Bonaparte at the battle of Hohenlinden near Munich.

    Napoléon is the first emperor of the beast coming out of the sea, the resurrected ancient pagan Roman Res Publica. He isn’t crowned by the Pope, rather, in an ostentatious symbolic act rejects the crown of Charlemagne, already wearing a golden diadem. The final battle of the devil, who was loosed after having been bound for a thousand years (Rev 20:2-7), had begun.


    The kabbalistic, freemasonic, capitalist, communist beast shows the aspects of all the beasts of Daniel, and is powered by the devil.


    The pagan Roman Empire is the last of the four beasts of Daniel. It had been conquered by Christendom, and was thought to have been overcome. But after a thousand years it came up again, out of the pagan sea, and the false Catholics, earthbound not heavenbound, were full of admiration of the resurrected Republic. It’s the “beast which … was, and is not, and shall come up out of the bottomless pit …” (Rev 17:8).


    They are again those who “dwell on earth”, “not written in the book”. Their adoration is marked by ignorance or rejection of the one true King, who will not only fight with but also crush the beast.


    The mouth will be shown as a second beast below (Rev 13:11), out of the earth, i.e. a bunch of false Catholics. A false church will be the mouthpiece of the beast, speaking “great things, and blasphemies”. The power comes from the devil, via the beast, to the false church.

    After three and a half years that mouth will be overcome by the mouth of “one like to a son of man” (Rev 1:13). “From his mouth came out a sharp two edged sword” (Rev 1:16). The sword is the Word with two edges, Old and New Testaments.

    The 42 months, 1260 days, three and a half years, a time, and times, and half a time, are the seventy years of the Babylonian captivity looked up by Daniel (Dan 9:2) in Jer 29:10. These are ended when the writing (mane, thecel, phares) appears on the wall (Dan 5:5). Seventy years correspond to “this generation will not pass” (Mt 24:34, Mk 13:30, Lk 21:30).


    This is how the Revelation of St. John spells out, what many today euphemistically call “crisis of the Church”.


    Those who are overcome and adore the beast are the false Catholics, who “dwell upon the earth” (and not in heaven), whose names are not written in the book. They’re from all over the world.
    The “inhabitants on the earth” “are not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world” (Rev 17:8) The book of life of the Lamb was written from the beginning of the world, hence the Lamb was slain from the beginning of the world.


    Part II:

    Those not written in the book of life may read, but won’t understand.


    The false Church leads into captivity/sin and shall be locked up behind the gates of hell.

    The sword is the Word of God, which has two edges, Old and New Testaments. Heretics twist the Word of God and use it to kill, like the rider named Death on the pale horse of Rev 6:8, who “kills with sword, with famine, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.” They will likewise be “slain by the sword of him that sitteth upon the horse, which proceedeth out of his mouth; and all the birds were filled with their flesh.” (Rev 19:21)


    Part III:

    Another beast, coming out of the earth, i.e. a bunch of false Catholics, forming a false church, i.e. appearing like a lamb, with Old and New Testaments, but incorporating the mouthpiece of the first beast.


    The false church is fully supported and authorized by the pagan empire, and it makes the false Catholics adore the pagan empire, which had been overcome by the true Church, but finally was resurrected.


    Fire coming down from heaven is the symbol of Pentecost. This new fire coming down from heaven is the symbol of a new, a second pentecost" the symbol of the inauguration of a new false church.

    The Gloss (Glossa Ordinaria, Anselm of Laon et al.) comments on this verse: “Ut apostolis datus est Spiritus sanctus in specie ignis, et sic illi dabunt spiritum malignum in specie ignis.” Just like the Holy Ghost is given to the apostles under the species of fire, so they will give a malicious spirit under the species of fire.

    in the sight of men: to seduce them.


    The Lord allows the false church to seduce the false Catholics. They’re told to make an idol, a statue of the beast, similar to the statue in the dream of Nabuchodonosor (Dan 2:31). The statue of Nabuchodonosor represents four empires, gold, silver, brass, and iron, and the beast represents four empires, leopard, bear, lion, plus the wounded head, the wounded and later resurrected fourth empire.

    To make an image of the beast is to idolize the empire. To put the empire in the place of God. The false Catholics virtually say: “Non habemus Regem, nisi Cæsarem.” (Jn 19:15 we have no king but Caesar), repeating the blasphemy of the Joos.


    So far, the statue was a mute idol. Now it becomes a living idol, a speaking idol. The beast to be adored is given a mouth to speak. The second beast is giving a mouth, and at the same time is the mouth, that’s given to the beast. The beast now has the appearance of legitimation by God.

    The false Catholics are directed to accept the voice of the beast as the word of God. Montini said: the UNO is our last hope, and today, the false church and the empire preach climate-doom and vaxx-charity.

    slain: like the Lamb, or hopefully only starved, not be allowed to buy or sell (see below).


    All, whose names are not written in the book. Several Fathers say that the characters refer to confessing the ideas of the beast (forehead) or doing the deeds of the beast (hand). One more explicit way to do this, may be attending the NOM.


    Character means stigma or brand. The brand shows the number and/or the name of the owner. Today it is called company logo. Many big companies today display the number of the beast in their logo. But as mentioned above, a literal brand is not needed for adoration of the beast.

    Not being allowed or able to buy and sell leads to famine (1 Mach 12:36, 1 Mach 13:49). The beast is trying to starve the true Catholics. This is to be understood both literally and spirtually. It is clear that not all true Catholics will be slain or starved, since some will make it to the last of the last days.


    Part IV:

    Some have understood this to be a call to use gematria to compute the name of the beast. But it doesn’t say “compute the name”, it says “compute the number”. Now, the number is already given, it’s six hundred sixty-six. Nothing left to compute. Also: gematria is like reading tea leaves. Not the type of thing we’re expected to do.

    The number of the beast is the number of a man. Is the name of the beast the name of a man, too? Or are there two names? One of the beast, another of a man. But which man?

    Well, the name of the beast is given in Rev 17:5. The harlot has a brand of the beast on her forehead: “And on her forehead a name was written: A mystery; Babylon the great, the mother of the fornications, and the abominations of the earth.” So the name of the beast is Babylon.

    And the “name of a man”? Here is wisdom. … six hundred sixty-six: This reminds of king Solomon, the wisest man on earth ever: “And the weight of the gold, that was brought to Solomon every year, was six hundred and sixty-six talents of gold.” (Chr 9:13, see also Chr 10:14)

    So the names are Babylon (beast), and Solomon (man). And both their numbers are the same: six hundred sixty-six.

    Now, what does it all mean? What does one need the name or the number for? (assuming that no one plans to adore the beast.)


    666

    That’s the “trinity of man”. Man himself is the false god of man, of the church of the beast, the church of the new pentecost.

    Signature of Paul VI:
    Paulus PP IV - (6aulus 66 IV -)



    Babylon

    1 Peter 5:13 “The church that is in Babylon … saluteth you …” Babylon is Rome, the pagan world capital at the time of St Peter. Pagan Rome was resurrected, and Rome has become the seat of the harlot.

    Solomon

    The rites of the freemasons are about the reconstruction of the Temple of Solomon.
    The reconstruction of the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem is expected by many.

    Although, I don't know that I agree with every detail, Marion, your method of allegorical interpretation of the symbols is the correct way to go about it. I especially like your description of the symbols of "sea," "earth," and "heaven." I think that is dead on. I need to read more carefully what you have laid out. Thank you for sharing.

    Here's my take. All apocalyptic/prophetic texts from Scripture are allegories. One cannot interpret an allegory literally, although there will be literal elements in the apocalyptic narrative, hidden in the allegorical framework. The best way to figure out the difference between the literal and allegorical elements is to find the same key event, key person, or same structure of relationships in, for example, Jeremias, Ezechias, Daniel, and the Apocalypse. All of those books tell the same basic story from different perspectives and different ways of breaking up the narrative.

    All references to empires, kings, wars, battles, invasions, etc. should be understood to be allegorical elements of the narrative. Watch what happens to those characters and entities in the particular narrative to understand the actual literal events that will happen in the "end times." Any event that does not occur in all of the prophetic narratives is not a literal "end time" event, but instead an allegorical event particular to that narrative. The Jeremiah narrative is built with a different allegorical framework from the Daniel narrative. But they both describe the same real future key events, which different emphases because of the differences in the perspective of the intended audiences. 

    Here's an example of what I mean. Zedecias in Jeremias/Ezechias, the "little horn" in Daniel, the "man of sin" in 2 Thessalonians 2, the False Prophet in the Apocalypse are all the same person (I think he is Bergoglio). Once you understand that and understand that all of those books are talking about generally the same period and generally the same people, you will see a more complete outline of the end times. 

    Here's my perspective of the big picture, forest view. This is just my best guess. I DO NOT claim to KNOW what will happen. The Catholic Church is infiltrated by its enemies prior to VII. Over 70 final years (which begins in 1959 with JohnXXIII calling the VII council) they slowly gain control and degrade the faith into the humanistic luv fest that we are seeing coming into full bloom with Bergoglio. Near the end of the 70 year period, the False Prophet/Antichrist/Man of sin is "revealed." There is a final SPIRITUAL battle between the saintly Remnant and the forces of Satan. The saintly have supernatural aids which help them during "the tribulation." A final "warning" and a "miracle" occur near the end of the 70 year period (before 2028). Many convert but almost all immediately fall away. Then the Day of the Lord will happen just before the end of the 70 years.

    During the same period described above, many "bad" things will happen on the social, political, economic, material plane. But that material stuff is caused by the breakdown on the spiritual plane, the "war" over the authentic faith, the battle between the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and the Counterfeit, Bizzaro Church. The fix for these material problems is a spiritual fix only. And we cannot do it alone. Only with Christ's saving help will it happen. Marana tha!


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: The Precursor vs The Mark
    « Reply #80 on: December 02, 2021, 12:59:29 PM »
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    The Apostle says that the wicked one is destroyed by Our Lord, with the brightness of his coming. When Our Lord has come, it's over. Seventh trumpet. Time's up. No more time for any conversion.
    No, the end of the world is not immediate, right after antichrist is killed.  It is de fide that the joos will convert, as a nation, after antichrist and before the end of the world.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: The Precursor vs The Mark
    « Reply #81 on: December 02, 2021, 01:00:43 PM »
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    All references to empires, kings, wars, battles, invasions, etc. should be understood to be allegorical elements of the narrative.
    Wrong.

    Offline Marion

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    Re: The Precursor vs The Mark
    « Reply #82 on: December 02, 2021, 01:14:23 PM »
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  • No, the end of the world is not immediate, right after antichrist is killed.  It is de fide that the joos will convert, as a nation, after antichrist and before the end of the world.

    No it's not de fide.

    Some Fathers expect a conversion of some or more joos. But most of these think that it's in response to the two witnesses of Rev 11, or to one of them, before the Antichrist kills the two witnesses. Others say that the witnesses are the Church, and the killing of the witnesses is the overcoming of the saints by Antichrist.

    There is no consensus of the Fathers on these topics.
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: The Precursor vs The Mark
    « Reply #83 on: December 02, 2021, 01:20:03 PM »
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    No it's not de fide.

    Some Fathers expect a conversion of some or more joos.
    This is the first i've heard this.

    Offline Marion

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    Re: The Precursor vs The Mark
    « Reply #84 on: December 02, 2021, 01:43:12 PM »
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  • Although, I don't know that I agree with every detail, Marion, your method of allegorical interpretation of the symbols is the correct way to go about it. I especially like your description of the symbols of "sea," "earth," and "heaven." I think that is dead on. I need to read more carefully what you have laid out. Thank you for sharing.

    You're welcome, thanks in return for sharing.


    Here's my take. All apocalyptic/prophetic texts from Scripture are allegories. One cannot interpret an allegory literally, although there will be literal elements in the apocalyptic narrative, hidden in the allegorical framework. The best way to figure out the difference between the literal and allegorical elements is to find the same key event, key person, or same structure of relationships in, for example, Jeremias, Ezechias, Daniel, and the Apocalypse. All of those books tell the same basic story from different perspectives and different ways of breaking up the narrative.

    All references to empires, kings, wars, battles, invasions, etc. should be understood to be allegorical elements of the narrative. Watch what happens to those characters and entities in the particular narrative to understand the actual literal events that will happen in the "end times." Any event that does not occur in all of the prophetic narratives is not a literal "end time" event, but instead an allegorical event particular to that narrative. The Jeremiah narrative is built with a different allegorical framework from the Daniel narrative. But they both describe the same real future key events, which different emphases because of the differences in the perspective of the intended audiences.

    Here's an example of what I mean. Zedecias in Jeremias/Ezechias, the "little horn" in Daniel, the "man of sin" in 2 Thessalonians 2, the False Prophet in the Apocalypse are all the same person (I think he is Bergoglio). Once you understand that and understand that all of those books are talking about generally the same period and generally the same people, you will see a more complete outline of the end times.

    Interesting approach. Did you derive this, or is there literature about it?


    Here's my perspective of the big picture, forest view. This is just my best guess. I DO NOT claim to KNOW what will happen. The Catholic Church is infiltrated by its enemies prior to VII.

    Yes, prior to VII, ever since St. John said that it's "the last hour", and that antichrists have "gone out from us."


    Over 70 final years (which begins in 1959 with JohnXXIII calling the VII council) they slowly gain control and degrade the faith into the humanistic luv fest that we are seeing coming into full bloom with Bergoglio. Near the end of the 70 year period, the False Prophet/Antichrist/Man of sin is "revealed." There is a final SPIRITUAL battle between the saintly Remnant and the forces of Satan. The saintly have supernatural aids which help them during "the tribulation." A final "warning" and a "miracle" occur near the end of the 70 year period (before 2028). Many convert but almost all immediately fall away. Then the Day of the Lord will happen just before the end of the 70 years.

    During the same period described above, many "bad" things will happen on the social, political, economic, material plane. But that material stuff is caused by the breakdown on the spiritual plane, the "war" over the authentic faith, the battle between the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and the Counterfeit, Bizzaro Church. The fix for these material problems is a spiritual fix only. And we cannot do it alone. Only with Christ's saving help will it happen. Marana tha!

    On what basis do you say "Many convert but almost all immediately fall away"? Scripture? Fathers? ...

    And why do you say that Antichrist will come at the end of the 70 years? I'd see a parallel between the Babylonian exile, and the last days (of tribulation, consummation, Antichrist, ...), where the former starts with the destruction of the temple, and the latter with the great apostasy and the destruction of the living magisterium of the Church.


    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline Angelus

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    Re: The Precursor vs The Mark
    « Reply #85 on: December 02, 2021, 03:29:51 PM »
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  • You're welcome, thanks in return for sharing.


    Interesting approach. Did you derive this, or is there literature about it?


    Yes, prior to VII, ever since St. John said that it's "the last hour", and that antichrists have "gone out from us."


    On what basis do you say "Many convert but almost all immediately fall away"? Scripture? Fathers? ...

    And why do you say that Antichrist will come at the end of the 70 years? I'd see a parallel between the Babylonian exile, and the last days (of tribulation, consummation, Antichrist, ...), where the former starts with the destruction of the temple, and the latter with the great apostasy and the destruction of the living magisterium of the Church.

    Here's a basic overview of the allegorical method with references to explanations of the method by Origen and Augustine:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegorical_interpretation_of_the_Bible

    The "many convert but almost all immediately fall away" is my opinion from reading private revelation about "the miracle" and Jesus's words that "few are saved." I really haven't looked for anything in Scripture that might refer to that. But I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't mentioned by one or more of the prophets in an allegorical way.

    The 70 years is described in Daniel 9. The Antichrist, or Little Horn, I believe, is described here:


    Quote
    26 And after sixty-two weeks [hebrew: shavuim] Christ shall be slain: and the people that shall deny him shall not be his. And a people with their leader [the little horn] that shall come, shall destroy the city and the sanctuary: and the end thereof shall be waste, and after the end of the war the appointed desolation.  27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many, in one week: and in the half of the week the victim and the sacrifice shall fall: and there shall be in the temple the abomination of desolation: and the desolation shall continue even to the consummation, and to the end.

    So "their leader" comes in the last "week" [hebrew: shavua], that is during the last 7 years of the 70 years (after the preceding 62 years have passed). If you question the interpretation of the 70 weeks as 70 years for Daniel 9, note that the chapter starts with following words of Daniel:


    Quote
    2 ...I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, concerning which the word of the Lord came to Jeremias the prophet, that seventy years should be accomplished of the desolation of Jerusalem. 3 And I set my face to the Lord my God, to pray and make supplication with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes.  4 And I prayed to the Lord my God, and I made my confession, and said...

    So he's praying to God about Jeremias' 70 years of Babylon prophecy in Daniel 9. Here's the quote from Jeremias 25:


    Quote
    12 And when the seventy years shall be expired, I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the Lord, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans: and I will make it perpetual desolations.  13 And I will bring upon the land all my words, that I have spoken against it, all that is written in this book, all that Jeremias hath prophesied against all nations: 14 For they have served them, whereas they were many nations, and great kings: and I will repay them according to their deeds, and according to the works of their hands.

    Daniel wants to understand Jeremias' meaning and timing. After the prayer, Daniel gets his answer from the angel Gabriel:

    Quote
    21 As I was yet speaking in prayer, behold the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, flying swiftly touched me at the time of the evening sacrifice.  22 And he instructed me, and spoke to me, and said: O Daniel, I am now come forth to teach thee, and that thou mightest understand. 23 From the beginning of thy prayers the word came forth: and I am come to shew it to thee, because thou art a man of desires: therefore do thou mark the word, and understand the vision.

    Then starts the discussion of the 70 shavuim. Shavuim is a word found only at the end of Daniel 9. Translators relate it to shavua, the Hebrew word for "seven" or "week" but it is a different word. No one really knows what it means. I think it refers to the "Feast of weeks" or what we call Pentecost, which happens once a year. So, something like 70 Pentecosts.

    Anyway, the answer that the angel Gabriel gives to Daniel in 9:24-27 is a more detailed description of the 70 years mentioned by Jeremias. It needs to be read like that. Also, connect the Fall of Babylon in Jeremias to the Fall of Babylon mentioned in the Apocalypse. It is talking about the same thing. As is the Fall of Tyre in Ezechias.



    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: The Precursor vs The Mark
    « Reply #86 on: December 02, 2021, 06:03:53 PM »
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    Some Fathers expect a conversion of some or more joos. But most of these think that it's in response to the two witnesses of Rev 11, or to one of them, before the Antichrist kills the two witnesses. Others say that the witnesses are the Church, and the killing of the witnesses is the overcoming of the saints by Antichrist.
    Ok, but we're talking about 2 different time periods.  You are talking about DURING the antichrist, some/many joos will convert.  But not all.  I agree. 




    I am talking about AFTER the antichrist, when Christ, through His Church, triumphs, the joos, as a whole religion, will convert.  The Jєωιѕн religion will cease to exist.  See St Paul below:





    25 For I would not have you ignorant, brethren, of this mystery, (lest you should be wise in your own conceits), that blindness in part has happened in Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles should come in.  26 And so all Israel should be saved, as it is written: There shall come out of Sion, he that shall deliver, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.








    Offline Marion

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    Re: The Precursor vs The Mark
    « Reply #87 on: December 02, 2021, 06:14:52 PM »
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  • Ok, but we're talking about 2 different time periods.  You are talking about DURING the antichrist, some/many joos will convert.  But not all.  I agree. 




    I am talking about AFTER the antichrist, when Christ, through His Church, triumphs, the joos, as a whole religion, will convert.  The Jєωιѕн religion will cease to exist.  See St Paul below:





    25 For I would not have you ignorant, brethren, of this mystery, (lest you should be wise in your own conceits), that blindness in part has happened in Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles should come in.  26 And so all Israel should be saved, as it is written: There shall come out of Sion, he that shall deliver, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.

    Yes, different Fathers have different ideas about whether at all, how many joos will convert, when exactly. No consensus, at all.

    As for the quote: There is consensus that all predestined will be saved, which includes all predestined of OT Israel.
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: The Precursor vs The Mark
    « Reply #88 on: December 02, 2021, 06:21:59 PM »
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  • Interesting.  It makes no sense that, before the end of the world, the Jєωιѕн people wouldn't convert as a religion (not every joo, but the religion would cease to exist).  It would almost mean that Christ failed to convince them of His divinity, which is contrary to what St Paul said.  

    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: The Precursor vs The Mark
    « Reply #89 on: December 02, 2021, 06:58:08 PM »
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  • No, it's both.  We are living in the end of the 5th age.  The church's enemies are freemasons and joos.  Our Lady will conquer these enemies, the Church will resurrect from 500 years (since Martin Luther) of heresy, and She will have a period of peace.  The 3rd Holy Roman Empire will conquer the freemasonic republican govts, and the Monarchy will return, to rule the whole world under catholicism.  The joos will not convert, as a religion, but many will convert individually.  Protestantism and muslimism will cease to exist.  The Church will flourish like never before in history.

    When the Holy Monarch dies, then his Empire is split into 10 kingdoms, the antichrist rises to power, the great falling away happens, and we have the end times.
    The antichrist is conquered by Christ, not Our Lady.  After the antichrist is defeated, then all the Jєωs, the entire Jєωιѕн religion, converts back to the Faith.  Then there will be "one Faith, one nation, one baptism" and the entire world will be catholic.  This is the fulfillment of Christ's true Kingship on earth.  Then, the world ends.


    "In THE END, my Immaculate Heart will triumph."

    Christ will defeat the antichrist and Mary's heart will reign during the era of peace.

    The various ages of the Church are not definitive.



    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



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