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Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => Topic started by: Carissima on September 18, 2017, 08:07:04 PM

Title: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Carissima on September 18, 2017, 08:07:04 PM
Hi, longtime reader of CI, new to posting. 
Traditional Catholic to my core, love Holy Mother Church and accept all of Her Teachings without reserve, and by God's grace working to resist and fight any and all modern errors and heresies. 

So seeing all this flat earth talk I wanted to share my thoughts on the subject. 

In regards to how the Firmament is placed above us, and after that the universe with endless galaxies beyond it, I have asked myself, where is Heaven located PHYSICALLY? 

Is it in some other dimension entirely?

Perhaps it's only a 'spiritual place' and not physical at all?

I am no theologian but being Catholic and hoping to go there someday, I'd like to have a visual to ponder during meditation. 

So what does modern science say today..

The Big Bang Professors over at NASA say that 'Beyond our own galaxy lies a vast expanse of galaxies. The deeper we see into space, the more galaxies we discover. There are billions of galaxies, the most distant of which are so far away that the light arriving from them on Earth today set out from the galaxies billions of years ago. So we see them not as they are today, but as they looked long before there was any life on Earth. '


Sorry but as a Catholic, I don't buy it. 

After reading Scripture, and taking it LITERALLY, I know that Heaven is PHYSICALLY located above my head, 
beyond the sky and on the other side of The Firmament. 
I know for a fact that modern day atheist scientists over at NASA, and others, are purposefully LYING to us about 'endless space' and 'the ever expanding universe' and all with the goal of separating Man in relation with his Creator. 
Because with endless light years between Man and God, there the 'Perfect Deception' can begin to form in men's minds. 
Sinners at ease knowing that 'the space between' gives them plenty of time for their pleasure and fun, and it just keeps getting BIGGER. 

Several years ago I laughed at a science channel program when I heard the narrator say that there are 'universes beyond the universe' (lol) even then I knew what modern science was trying to do..attempting to push my God and His existance further away from me. 

Being a great sinner with much to answer for, it was not so terrifying to think of God's Eyes seeing me from a million light years away on the other side of the zillionth galaxy. Though for me now it is a much different reality when I step out on my deck outside and look straight up and imagine Him looking right back at me from the other side of the sky. No more 'space between'. 
And even on a better note, and following on the same line of thought, it is so much more Beautiful when contemplating The Sacred Heart of Jesus, Mary and The Angels, and my Sainted Friends in Heaven. 

Heaven is a PLACE, and I hope to go there. 
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 18, 2017, 08:18:26 PM
Hi, longtime reader of CI, new to posting.
Traditional Catholic to my core, love Holy Mother Church and accept all of Her Teachings without reserve, and by God's grace working to resist and fight any and all modern errors and heresies.

So seeing all this flat earth talk I wanted to share my thoughts on the subject.

In regards to how the Firmament is placed above us, and after that the universe with endless galaxies beyond it, I have asked myself, where is Heaven located PHYSICALLY?

Is it in some other dimension entirely?

Perhaps it's only a 'spiritual place' and not physical at all?

I am no theologian but being Catholic and hoping to go there someday, I'd like to have a visual to ponder during meditation.

So what does modern science say today..

The Big Bang Professors over at NASA say that 'Beyond our own galaxy lies a vast expanse of galaxies. The deeper we see into space, the more galaxies we discover. There are billions of galaxies, the most distant of which are so far away that the light arriving from them on Earth today set out from the galaxies billions of years ago. So we see them not as they are today, but as they looked long before there was any life on Earth. '


Sorry but as a Catholic, I don't buy it.

After reading Scripture, and taking it LITERALLY, I know that Heaven is PHYSICALLY located above my head,
beyond the sky and on the other side of The Firmament.
I know for a fact that modern day atheist scientists over at NASA, and others, are purposefully LYING to us about 'endless space' and 'the ever expanding universe' and all with the goal of separating Man in relation with his Creator.
Because with endless light years between Man and God, there the 'Perfect Deception' can begin to form in men's minds.
Sinners at ease knowing that 'the space between' gives them plenty of time for their pleasure and fun, and it just keeps getting BIGGER.

Several years ago I laughed at a science channel program when I heard the narrator say that there are 'universes beyond the universe' (lol) even then I knew what modern science was trying to do..attempting to push my God and His existance further away from me.

Being a great sinner with much to answer for, it was not so terrifying to think of God's Eyes seeing me from a million light years away on the other side of the zillionth galaxy. Though for me now it is a much different reality when I step out on my deck outside and look straight up and imagine Him looking right back at me from the other side of the sky. No more 'space between'.
And even on a better note, and following on the same line of thought, it is so much more Beautiful when contemplating The Sacred Heart of Jesus, Mary and The Angels, and my Sainted Friends in Heaven.

Heaven is a PLACE, and I hope to go there.
If you haven't read the book "End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life", I highly recommend reading this awesome book.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: DZ PLEASE on September 18, 2017, 09:29:31 PM
" Reply to Objection 1. The earth stands in relation to the heaven (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07170a.htm) as the centre of a circle to its circuмference. But as one center may have many circuмferences, so, though there is but one earth, there may be many heavens"

Summa Theologiae Q:68 Art. iv (http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1068.htm)

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07170a.htm#I
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Student of Qi on September 19, 2017, 12:38:09 AM
Where is Heaven located PHYSICALLY?

[...]

Perhaps it's only a 'spiritual place' and not physical at all?
 
No, Heaven is truly a physical place. Think about it; The Blessed Virgen Mary was assumed into Heaven body and soul; Jesus Christ ascended into Heaven, body and soul. Also, at the Last Supper Jesus told His Appstles that He "Would not tast of the fruit of the vine until reunited with you all in Heaven," meaning He would not drink any WINE until they were all reunited in Heaven. There can't be grapes, grape juice, or wine in Heaven unless it is a physical place.
   Anyhow, that is a logical conclusion if taking the Holy Bible literally. The question I have is "How much can you really read this in a litteral manner?" Because I seem to recall somewhere in the New Testamen that it was said "Everything is said in metafores/parables"? Now, if you take that litteraly...
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Nadir on September 19, 2017, 12:48:40 AM
Actually, the verse reads:

Matt 26 [29] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=26&l=29-#x) And I say to you, I will not drink from henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I shall drink it with you new in the kingdom of my Father. 

Would that make a difference?
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Nadir on September 19, 2017, 01:32:18 AM
The question I have is "How much can you really read this in a litteral manner?" Because I seem to recall somewhere in the New Testamen that it was said "Everything is said in metafores/parables"? Now, if you take that litteraly...
No, not everything is said in metaphors and parables. We read in Matthew 13:

[9] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=13&l=9-#x) He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. [10] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=13&l=10-#x) And his disciples came and said to him: Why speakest thou to them  (the crowds) in parables?
[11] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=13&l=11-#x) Who answered and said to them: Because to you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven: but to them it is not given. [12] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=13&l=12-#x) For he that hath, to him shall be given, and he shall abound: but he that hath not, from him shall be taken away that also which he hath. [13] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=13&l=13-#x) Therefore do I speak to them in parables: because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. [14] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=13&l=14-#x) And the prophecy of Isaias is fulfilled in them, who saith: By hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand: and seeing you shall see, and shall not perceive. [15] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=13&l=15-#x) For the heart of this people is grown gross, and with their ears they have been dull of hearing, and their eyes they have shut: lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
[16] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=13&l=16-#x) But blessed are your eyes, because they see, and your ears, because they hear.[17] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=13&l=17-#x) For, amen, I say to you, many prophets and just men have desired to see the things that you see, and have not seen them, and to hear the things that you hear and have not heard them.

How blessed are we to whom it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven! Who can fathom it?


Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: kiwiboy on September 19, 2017, 04:23:18 AM
Welcome Carissima,

Yes the teaching of the Church is that it is a physical place. As a flat earther I believe it to be above the firmament.

Glober earthers would say that it is simply beyond the edge of the universe, which is a huge number of miles away, and which, don't forget keeps moving all the time, and the estimates are always changing also.

I am totally open to correction here but I imagine that space and distances, especially in relation to our physical creation are not the same as we imagine it. Heaven is infinite in time, and probably in space. Hell is a physical place also, as is purgatory, so where do they square in relation to the physical place of heaven? I don't know the answer.

But I certainly can say that in relation to the physical creation we live in, I agree with you that it is above us.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Tradplorable on September 19, 2017, 08:00:23 AM
I was taught in catechism that heaven and hell is both a PLACE and a STATE.

Meaning you are in a PHYSICAL PLACE and a STATE OF BEING.

In Heaven, the place is above the Firmament and you are in a state of union with God, enjoying the Beatific Vision.

In Hell, the place is below the earth and you are in a state of separation from God, the worst punishment of hell.

At the Second Coming of Our Lord the earth is going to be remade with fire. Everything will be destroyed and burned up, even the rocks themselves, in order to purify the (flat) earth from sin. Then the City of God, the Kingdom of Heaven will descend and rest upon the earth.

Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: MyrnaM on September 19, 2017, 09:57:37 AM



Sorry but as a Catholic, I don't buy it.

After reading Scripture, and taking it LITERALLY, I know that Heaven is PHYSICALLY located above my head,
beyond the sky and on the other side of The Firmament.
I know for a fact that modern day atheist scientists over at NASA, and others, are purposefully LYING to us about 'endless space' and 'the ever expanding universe' and all with the goal of separating Man in relation with his Creator.
Because with endless light years between Man and God, there the 'Perfect Deception' can begin to form in men's minds.
Sinners at ease knowing that 'the space between' gives them plenty of time for their pleasure and fun, and it just keeps getting BIGGER.

Several years ago I laughed at a science channel program when I heard the narrator say that there are 'universes beyond the universe' (lol) even then I knew what modern science was trying to do..attempting to push my God and His existance further away from me.

Being a great sinner with much to answer for, it was not so terrifying to think of God's Eyes seeing me from a million light years away on the other side of the zillionth galaxy. Though for me now it is a much different reality when I step out on my deck outside and look straight up and imagine Him looking right back at me from the other side of the sky. No more 'space between'.
And even on a better note, and following on the same line of thought, it is so much more Beautiful when contemplating The Sacred Heart of Jesus, Mary and The Angels, and my Sainted Friends in Heaven.

Heaven is a PLACE, and I hope to go there.
I believe Heaven is a city with many mansions, John 14;2.  Therefore a place!

Right now at this present time, you should not fear anyone can push your God and His existence further away from you because He is present on the True altars in our chapels/churches where the True Mass is offered.  In the Blessed Sacrament, His True Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity are there waiting for you and I and everyone. 
 
At Fatima, Our Lady opened up the earth and showed the children a myriad of souls falling into Hell, like a blizzard they described, many Saints have said Hell is the center of earth.

Also at Fatima, the children saw Blessed Mother coming down from the sky above, and she told them she was from Heaven, therefore Heaven must be above high, but might be another dimension.      
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Carissima on September 19, 2017, 01:39:04 PM
If you haven't read the book "End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life", I highly recommend reading this awesome book.
I own this book and have yet to read it..perhaps I should bump it up the list. My library is just too big for the hours I have left to live to read them all lol  :D
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Carissima on September 19, 2017, 01:51:13 PM
" Reply to Objection 1. The earth stands in relation to the heaven (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07170a.htm) as the centre of a circle to its circuмference. But as one center may have many circuмferences, so, though there is but one earth, there may be many heavens"

Summa Theologiae Q:68 Art. iv (http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1068.htm)

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07170a.htm#I
Great link thanks! 
I found this located there at newadvent which also confirms that The Firmament has been thought to be as a 'roof'. 
 Some derive heaven from the root ham, "to cover" (cf. the Gothic ham-ôn and the German Hem-d). According to this derivation heaven would be conceived as the roof of the world. Others trace a connection between himin (heaven) and home; according to this view, which seems to be the more probable, heaven would be the abode of the Godhead (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm). The Latin coelum (koilon, a vault) is derived by many from the root of celare "to cover, to conceal" (coelum, "ceiling" "roof of the world"). Others, however think it is connected with the Germanic himin. The Greek ouranos is probably derived from the root var, which also connotes the idea (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07630a.htm) of covering. The Hebrew name for heaven is thought to be derived from a word meaning "on high"; accordingly, heaven would designate the upper region of the world.'



Not sure how a roof, vault, canopy or pavilion (all described as the Firmament) could fit onto a ball or sphere shape  :confused:

Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Carissima on September 19, 2017, 02:00:26 PM
I am totally open to correction here but I imagine that space and distances, especially in relation to our physical creation are not the same as we imagine it. Heaven is infinite in time, and probably in space. Hell is a physical place also, as is purgatory, so where do they square in relation to the physical place of heaven? I don't know the answer.

But I certainly can say that in relation to the physical creation we live in, I agree with you that it is above us.
Well if newadvent even says the word 'roof' and 'upper region', we are certainly left wondering about the people in Australia who are upside down to it. 
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 19, 2017, 02:06:35 PM
Well if newadvent even says the word 'roof' and 'upper region', we are certainly left wondering about the people in Australia who are upside down to it.
.
When the people of Australia look upwards into the heavens they see the Southern Cross in the upper region.
.
How can that be bad? 
.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: DZ PLEASE on September 19, 2017, 02:26:13 PM
Great link thanks!
I found this located there at newadvent which also confirms that The Firmament has been thought to be as a 'roof'.
Some derive heaven from the root ham, "to cover" (cf. the Gothic ham-ôn and the German Hem-d). According to this derivation heaven would be conceived as the roof of the world. Others trace a connection between himin (heaven) and home; according to this view, which seems to be the more probable, heaven would be the abode of the Godhead (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm). The Latin coelum (koilon, a vault) is derived by many from the root of celare "to cover, to conceal" (coelum, "ceiling" "roof of the world"). Others, however think it is connected with the Germanic himin. The Greek ouranos is probably derived from the root var, which also connotes the idea (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07630a.htm) of covering. The Hebrew name for heaven is thought to be derived from a word meaning "on high"; accordingly, heaven would designate the upper region of the world.'



Not sure how a roof, vault, canopy or pavilion (all described as the Firmament) could fit onto a ball or sphere shape  :confused:
Not sure exactly how an absolutely simple God can sit at the right hand of God, or how those who have seen Christ have seen the Father, and yet none have seen God and lived.

(s.a., e.g., "The Language of Accommodation.")
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Meg on September 19, 2017, 02:35:03 PM
Not sure exactly how an absolutely simple God can sit at the right hand of God, or how those who have seen Christ have seen the Father, and yet none have seen God and lived.

(s.a., e.g., "The Language of Accommodation.")

Is there an actual point that you're trying to make? Because if there is, it isn't obvious (to me, anyway).
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: MyrnaM on September 19, 2017, 02:44:36 PM

Not sure how a roof, vault, canopy or pavilion (all described as the Firmament) could fit onto a ball or sphere shape  :confused:
You mean like this?
(https://us.123rf.com/450wm/forestpath/forestpath1004/forestpath100400039/6853220-illustration-of-a-defeated-little-boy-who-is-failing-in-school-wearing-a-dunce-cap.jpg?ver=6)
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 19, 2017, 02:55:09 PM
If you haven't read the book, "End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life," I highly recommend reading this awesome book.
.
https://youtu.be/KMpNtRXSDR4
.
This book, End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life, written by Fr. Charles Arminjon (1881), "The Fulton Sheen of his time," when St. Therese of Lisieux read it, was the cause of her desire to enter the convent. In her book Story of a Soul, St. Therese goes on and on about this book, but even so, most readers of her Story don't recognize that she is commenting on the book. After her time, End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life went into obscurity for 100 years, being unavailable to English readers since it was only in French and was not in publication. 
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The Little Flower first read it at age 14, and continued reading it for the next 10 years, which were all the years of the rest of her life. She had memorized the Imitation of Christ and knew it by heart.
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Only in the past few years has it become available to English readers since it has only now been translated from French to English. In 1987 the translator Susan Conroy, first started searching for the French book, it took her 7 years to find it (1994), and finally found only ONE COPY, owned by a Carmelite priest in California (whom she names), Fr. Donald Kinney.
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Makes Death, Judgment, Heaven and Hell real, present and unavoidable. For example, atheists might choose not to think about them but that doesn't make them go away.
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You shouldn't wait until residing in a "retirement village" before you read it! But if you're already in one, you're almost too late -- Do you have another 10 years like the Little Flower did?
.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Meg on September 19, 2017, 03:17:31 PM




So what does modern science say today..

The Big Bang Professors over at NASA say that 'Beyond our own galaxy lies a vast expanse of galaxies. The deeper we see into space, the more galaxies we discover. There are billions of galaxies, the most distant of which are so far away that the light arriving from them on Earth today set out from the galaxies billions of years ago. So we see them not as they are today, but as they looked long before there was any life on Earth. '


Sorry but as a Catholic, I don't buy it.

After reading Scripture, and taking it LITERALLY, I know that Heaven is PHYSICALLY located above my head,
beyond the sky and on the other side of The Firmament.
I know for a fact that modern day atheist scientists over at NASA, and others, are purposefully LYING to us about 'endless space' and 'the ever expanding universe' and all with the goal of separating Man in relation with his Creator.
Because with endless light years between Man and God, there the 'Perfect Deception' can begin to form in men's minds.
Sinners at ease knowing that 'the space between' gives them plenty of time for their pleasure and fun, and it just keeps getting BIGGER.

Several years ago I laughed at a science channel program when I heard the narrator say that there are 'universes beyond the universe' (lol) even then I knew what modern science was trying to do..attempting to push my God and His existance further away from me.

Being a great sinner with much to answer for, it was not so terrifying to think of God's Eyes seeing me from a million light years away on the other side of the zillionth galaxy. Though for me now it is a much different reality when I step out on my deck outside and look straight up and imagine Him looking right back at me from the other side of the sky. No more 'space between'.
And even on a better note, and following on the same line of thought, it is so much more Beautiful when contemplating The Sacred Heart of Jesus, Mary and The Angels, and my Sainted Friends in Heaven.

Heaven is a PLACE, and I hope to go there.

So many good observations above. You are so right to say that..."the atheist scientists over at NASA are purposefully lying to us about 'endless space' and the 'ever expanding universe' and all with the goal of separating Man in relation from his creator."  So true! I agree that they are trying to push God and His existence further away from us. 

Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 19, 2017, 03:19:32 PM
Great link thanks!
I found this located there at newadvent which also confirms that The Firmament has been thought to be as a 'roof'.
Some derive heaven from the root ham, "to cover" (cf. the Gothic ham-ôn and the German Hem-d). According to this derivation heaven would be conceived as the roof of the world. Others trace a connection between himin (heaven) and home; according to this view, which seems to be the more probable, heaven would be the abode of the Godhead (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm). The Latin coelum (koilon, a vault) is derived by many from the root of celare "to cover, to conceal" (coelum, "ceiling" "roof of the world"). Others, however think it is connected with the Germanic himin. The Greek ouranos is probably derived from the root var, which also connotes the idea (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07630a.htm) of covering. The Hebrew name for heaven is thought to be derived from a word meaning "on high"; accordingly, heaven would designate the upper region of the world.'



Not sure how a roof, vault, canopy or pavilion (all described as the Firmament) could fit onto a ball or sphere shape  :confused:
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It is not possible for us to impose our present understanding of reality onto spiritual reality. They are not the same world.
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When we try to make spiritual things comprehensible to us in a material way we can get into many difficulties. 
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Some have conceptualized heaven as cherubs (angels?) sitting on billowy clouds plucking harps. Atheists have countered, that sounds pretty boring.
.
Okay then, since that sounds pretty boring then there's no point in believing in any kind of religion, ergo, atheism. 
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They use that for an excuse but ironically in the end, it doesn't excuse them.
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Our Lord ascended into heaven and Our Lady was assumed body and soul into heaven, and that has always meant "up" to Catholics.
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Wherever you are in the world, "up" is away from earth. So what about for astronauts, which way is "up" for them? What if someone is on another planet, could "up" be in the direction of earth, then? 
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What if the sun is directly overhead -- is "up" towards the sun? Is the sun heaven then, or is it never heaven unless it is overhead, then heaven changes from place to place? I thought heaven never changes. See the problems?
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We are given to know that heaven is "up," and that we will each have a resurrected body in heaven, the same body we now have on earth, just as Our Lord had the same body when He appeared to his disciples after His resurrection. It was the same body but a glorified body. So it is given for us to know that we will have the same body but it will have no defects, and it will be a perfect body, and it will not be subject to injury, and it will be able to pass through obstacles. So we can suppose that contact sports won't be a main attraction anymore in heaven, even for sports fans. But some sports fans don't want any part of heaven if there's no sports there. That's all they find interesting here on earth.
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See the difficulty?
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How do we make sense of a world where all the rules are changed, and the natural "laws" we are so familiar with no longer apply?
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How did Our Lord in His glorified body eat normal food in the presence of his friends when the material of the door did not keep Him from passing right through it?
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Some things, we have to just step away from them, and realize they're not for us to know -- yet.
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There are mysteries in the Catholic faith, and that has to be okay, that we can't have all the answers here and now.
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Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: St Ignatius on September 19, 2017, 03:28:35 PM
1 Corinthians 2

9 But, as it is written: That eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath it entered into the heart of man, what things God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But to us God hath revealed them, by this Spirit. For the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, but the spirit of a man that is in him? So the things also that are of God no man knoweth, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received not the spirit of this world, but the Spirit that is of God; that we may know the things that are given us from God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the learned words of human wisdom; but in the doctrine of the Spirit, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the sensual man perceiveth not these things that are of the Spirit of God; for it is foolishness to him, and he cannot understand, because it is spiritually examined. 15 But the spiritual man judgeth all things; and he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that we may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Carissima on September 19, 2017, 06:29:14 PM
You mean like this?
(https://us.123rf.com/450wm/forestpath/forestpath1004/forestpath100400039/6853220-illustration-of-a-defeated-little-boy-who-is-failing-in-school-wearing-a-dunce-cap.jpg?ver=6)
You're missing some coverage on your ball there



(http://webkit-fake-url://91b109a3-dd59-43d3-a776-ccf8b0f069de/imagejpeg)
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Carissima on September 19, 2017, 06:36:27 PM
You're missing some coverage on your ball there



(http://webkit-fake-url://91b109a3-dd59-43d3-a776-ccf8b0f069de/imagejpeg)
Aussies need some vault too
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: MyrnaM on September 19, 2017, 07:11:40 PM
Aussies need some vault too
See there if you figured it out, I feel confident God can also figure it out! 
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Tradplorable on September 19, 2017, 07:25:00 PM
Well if newadvent even says the word 'roof' and 'upper region', we are certainly left wondering about the people in Australia who are upside down to it.
Exactly.
But, of course a vault or roof or tent or dome makes perfect sense above a flat plane with four pillars. It's a tabernacle.  ;)
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: cassini on September 20, 2017, 12:35:09 PM
Well if newadvent even says the word 'roof' and 'upper region', we are certainly left wondering about the people in Australia who are upside down to it.

Again and again we witness these flat-earthers bring God's Creation down to a human level. To them only a flat-Earth has an up and a down. If monkeys could talk I suspect that is what they would also say for the truth of creation is beyond human comprehension. Flat-earthism would deny God's ability to create the earth as a globe just like the moon and all the planets man can see. Flat-earthism denies the ongoing miracle of gravity, that which has mankind on every part of our global earth to have the sky above and the ground below.

The OP talks about the size of the universe and the number of stars in it. God created that many (as numerous as the grains of sand on Earth) to show mankind they cannot comprehend his power. There is no physical limit to what God can create, so do not even try to put a limit on the universe.
As for those billions of light years for some starlight to get to us, well ponder on the fact that God created Adam with starlight visible to him. In other words it did not take starlight time to reach us. In more words, MANKIND sees the visable universe in OUR TIME. Einstein's time is for atheists and monkeys, those who put a limit of God's omnipotence, try to bring Him down to our level.

Heaven has to be a place for physical mankind to reside, just as Hell is a place for the same reason. Again do not try to tell God he could not have created His Heaven outside the physical universe as we know it from all sides of the global Earth.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: St Ignatius on September 20, 2017, 12:40:50 PM
Again and again we witness these flat-earthers bring God's Creation down to a human level. To them only a flat-Earth has an up and a down. If monkeys could talk I suspect that is what they would also say for the truth of creation is beyond human comprehension. Flat-earthism would deny God's ability to create the earth as a globe just like the moon and all the planets man can see. Flat-earthism denies the ongoing miracle of gravity, that which has mankind on every part of our global earth to have the sky above and the ground below.

The OP talks about the size of the universe and the number of stars in it. God created that many (as numerous as the grains of sand on Earth) to show mankind they cannot comprehend his power. There is no physical limit to what God can create, so do not even try to put a limit on the universe.
As for those billions of light years for some starlight to get to us, well ponder on the fact that God created Adam with starlight visible to him. In other words it did not take starlight time to reach us. In more words, MANKIND sees the visable universe in OUR TIME. Einstein's time is for atheists and monkeys, those who put a limit of God's omnipotence, try to bring Him down to our level.

Heaven has to be a place for physical mankind to reside, just as Hell is a place for the same reason. Again do not try to tell God he could not have created His Heaven outside the physical universe as we know it from all sides of the global Earth.
:applause:
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: MyrnaM on September 20, 2017, 12:44:03 PM
Again and again we witness these flat-earthers bring God's Creation down to a human level. To them only a flat-Earth has an up and a down. If monkeys could talk I suspect that is what they would also say for the truth of creation is beyond human comprehension. Flat-earthism would deny God's ability to create the earth as a globe just like the moon and all the planets man can see. Flat-earthism denies the ongoing miracle of gravity, that which has mankind on every part of our global earth to have the sky above and the ground below.

The OP talks about the size of the universe and the number of stars in it. God created that many (as numerous as the grains of sand on Earth) to show mankind they cannot comprehend his power. There is no physical limit to what God can create, so do not even try to put a limit on the universe.
As for those billions of light years for some starlight to get to us, well ponder on the fact that God created Adam with starlight visible to him. In other words it did not take starlight time to reach us. In more words, MANKIND sees the visable universe in OUR TIME. Einstein's time is for atheists and monkeys, those who put a limit of God's omnipotence, try to bring Him down to our level.

Heaven has to be a place for physical mankind to reside, just as Hell is a place for the same reason. Again do not try to tell God he could not have created His Heaven outside the physical universe as we know it from all sides of the global Earth.
Thank you for the sanity
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Carissima on September 20, 2017, 01:21:12 PM
Those who are in love with the religion of Modern Science believe that even with the use of human reason, Man cannot understand God's Creation in a plain and simple manner. 
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: DZ PLEASE on September 20, 2017, 01:24:26 PM
re: "Guile", via newadvent.org (https://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=mcafee&type=C111US752D20170824&p=site%3Anewadvent.org+guile)

"'Modern' Science... " :confused:
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: DZ PLEASE on September 20, 2017, 01:33:31 PM
Quote
Those who are in love with the religion
 
defined as...?

of Modern Science believe that even with the use of human reason, Man cannot understand God's Creation in a plain and simple manner.

Isn't understanding "... creation in a plain and simple manner..." one way of saying what Science, "modern" or otherwise, is?

Fuzzy terms make for hairy thinking.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 20, 2017, 02:21:49 PM
Again and again we witness these flat-earthers bring God's Creation down to a human level. To them only a flat-Earth has an up and a down. If monkeys could talk I suspect that is what they would also say for the truth of creation is beyond human comprehension. Flat-earthism would deny God's ability to create the earth as a globe just like the moon and all the planets man can see. Flat-earthism denies the ongoing miracle of gravity, that which has mankind on every part of our global earth to have the sky above and the ground below.

The OP talks about the size of the universe and the number of stars in it. God created that many (as numerous as the grains of sand on Earth) to show mankind they cannot comprehend his power. There is no physical limit to what God can create, so do not even try to put a limit on the universe.

As for those billions of light years for some starlight to get to us, well ponder on the fact that God created Adam with starlight visible to him. In other words it did not take starlight time to reach us. In more words, MANKIND sees the visable universe in OUR TIME. Einstein's time is for atheists and monkeys, those who put a limit of God's omnipotence, try to bring Him down to our level.

Heaven has to be a place for physical mankind to reside, just as Hell is a place for the same reason. Again do not try to tell God he could not have created His Heaven outside the physical universe as we know it from all sides of the global Earth.
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Should I say you have given me something to think about, cassini, or should I just be amazed at how short your posts have become?
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Sometimes less is more.
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That's something I have yet to learn, as we shall now see..............
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A man can certainly TRY to comprehend God's power, but then the man would be nothing more than merely a flat-earther.
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Man is capable of so much more.
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We can try to put a limit of size on the universe, for example. That would be kind of like what flat-earthers do.
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Such as how flat-earthers never have ANYTHING to say about what the heavens look like "below" their flat earth model.
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Or what the bottom side of their flat-earth model really looks like -- that is, specifically.
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Just one portion of your post above causes a thinking man to pause and think some more:
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"God created Adam with starlight visible to him. In other words, it did not take starlight time to reach us."
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Reading this quickly, a shallow, superficial reader won't give it a second thought.
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But humor me for a moment, will ya? (No, I am not accusing you of being superficial, dear reader.)
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The starlight Adam first saw was light coming from the direction of stars, light true to the stars themselves, but light that existed before the stars from which it "obviously comes" existed. This is to say that had Adam been created a few days earlier in Creation, he would have seen starlight coming to him even though there were no existing stars yet in the sky.
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Scientists today recoil from such concepts and turn around running in the other direction because they're terrorized by the thought of losing their pension, of losing their "respectability."
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In this way, they're very different from flat-earthers who have no concern for such things.
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Adam saw starlight, and if he had had access to a functional radio telescope with interpretive software and a working computer to run it he could have seen everything that we can see today, even if in a slightly different arrangement of images, but the characteristics would have been identical.
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Astrophysicists today assure us that if the stars we "see" in the sky were to suddenly cease to exist, we wouldn't know of it for millions of years, perhaps even billions of years, because that's how long it takes for the light they're emitting to reach us. And so-called logically since by that time our own sun might have burned out we shouldn't be concerned with thinking about how the world looks because certainly we won't be here to look at it. Furthermore, for all we know, they might not exist at all even now, because we're looking at light they emitted millions of years ago, or longer, and we have no idea what has happened in the meantime.
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Boy, are they in for some surprises.
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Being a scientist today is like being a gambler -- you never really know what's going to happen in the future. You might win, you might lose.
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God would not deceive us, so He would not give us starlight ostensibly coming from physical stars if there were no physical stars out there to be found producing such light. However, God has not promised us that the starlight we observe was IN FACT produced by the stars from which it apparently emanates after the stars existed. Atheists would accuse God of therefore lying to us by giving us apparent evidence when it is not even real.
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And that is because for atheists, reality is in the mind. And in their mind, stars that don't exist yet cannot be the source of the starlight we see.
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They can't manage to stretch their narrow minds to recognize that the stars can exist in the mind of God without existing yet in physical space.
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It is not for us to know what is in the mind of God however we cannot dictate to God what cannot be there. 
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Atheists go absolutely tied up in knots when you tell them stuff like that.
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But for a man who does not put limits on God's power, whether the starlight we see was emitted by the stars from which it apparently emanates is not a relevant question to ask. All we need to believe is that God gave us a created universe for the PURPOSE of contemplating His power, while those who would rebuke us for attributing to God infinite power and even go so far as denying God's own existence are so repulsed by the mere THOUGHT of contemplating the purpose God had in mind that they argue against and bemoan the principle of teleology to the point where in modern universities today there are no courses in teleology, and the concept has been evicted from the curriculum of classes they still call "philosophy" regardless of the fact that they cover next to nothing of philosophy true to the name (philo + sophos + y = love of wisdom) and have replaced it with the addiction to denial of observed reality and an obsession with everything that flies in the face thereof because it is the exception to the rule that is of their only interest, and the one weird fluke that statisticians reasonably discard as being unreliable is the one thing modern so-called philosophers hang onto for dear life (or is it dear death?) to the point that if they were honest they would rename their courses and field of studies to something that actually represents what they're doing, that is, hating wisdom, and dwelling on insanity and the abnormal.
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I could say that reminds me of flat-earthers but someone might think that's being uncharitable so I won't say that.  :)
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Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: MyrnaM on September 20, 2017, 02:59:44 PM
WoW Neil O I really like this thought-provoking idea.  
Quote
Astrophysicists today assure us that if the stars we "see" in the sky were to suddenly cease to exist, we wouldn't know of it for millions of years, perhaps even billions of years, because that's how long it takes for the light they're emitting to reach us. And so-called logically since by that time our own sun might have burned out we shouldn't be concerned with thinking about how the world looks because certainly we won't be here to look at it. Furthermore, for all we know, they might not exist at all even now, because we're looking at light they emitted millions of years ago, or longer, and we have no idea what has happened in the meantime. 
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Between your last post here and Cassini's, someone should consider creating a suitable Blog with a compilation of intelligent thinking.  
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: DZ PLEASE on September 20, 2017, 03:04:59 PM
WoW Neil O I really like this thought-provoking idea.  Between your last post here and Cassini's, someone should consider creating a suitable Blog with a compilation of intelligent thinking.  
... that wouldn't be thread jacked by Lovers of Flat...
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Tradplorable on September 20, 2017, 03:51:31 PM
.

Astrophysicists today assure us that if the stars we "see" in the sky were to suddenly cease to exist, we wouldn't know of it for millions of years, perhaps even billions of years, because that's how long it takes for the light they're emitting to reach us. And so-called logically since by that time our own sun might have burned out we shouldn't be concerned with thinking about how the world looks because certainly we won't be here to look at it. Furthermore, for all we know, they might not exist at all even now, because we're looking at light they emitted millions of years ago, or longer, and we have no idea what has happened in the meantime.
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Boy, aren't you going to be in for a helluva surprise at the end of days when the stars fall from the heavens.
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AS IT SAYS IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION.
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Quote
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered; that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son. Rev. 12:4/DRV


Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 20, 2017, 04:14:38 PM
Boy, aren't you going to be in for a helluva surprise at the end of days when the stars fall from the heavens.
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AS IT SAYS IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION.
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;D They (assuming they believe all infallible dogmas' of the Catholic Church without innovations) will be so disgusted that the New Jerusalem rests on the new flat earth, will they even want to experience this beautiful place that is not up to their spherical standards? ;D
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Carissima on September 20, 2017, 04:16:40 PM
Boy, aren't you going to be in for a helluva surprise at the end of days when the stars fall from the heavens.
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AS IT SAYS IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION.
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I doubt the astrophysicist-followers take that Scripture passage literally, it doesn't match what Neil Degrasse or Mr Scientist would say over at NASA, so it most likely would be considered a parable with an alternate meaning. 
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Carissima on September 20, 2017, 04:30:10 PM
;D They (assuming they believe all infallible dogmas' of the Catholic Church without innovations) will be so disgusted that the New Jerusalem rests on the new flat earth, will they even want to experience this beautiful place that is not up to their spherical standards? ;D
Is this what they picture for the New Jerusalem?
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 20, 2017, 05:06:24 PM
Is this what they picture for the New Jerusalem?
They probably believe they will be going around and around for all eternity wondering why everyone is always upside-down all of the time.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 20, 2017, 05:17:07 PM
WoW Neil O I really like this thought-provoking idea.  Between your last post here and Cassini's, someone should consider creating a suitable Blog with a compilation of intelligent thinking.  
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Thank you.  I had fun writing that. 
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Flat-earthers ought to be glad I've dealt with the likes of Lawrence Krauss whose inane ramblings have given me cause to burn off much of my upsetment over such stupidity, especially when it's paraded as some kind of higher level thinking. Stephen Hawking has some pretty dopey things to say too but somehow he doesn't make it come across so utterly and proudly belligerent as Krauss. 
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So by the time flat-earthers came along I was much more able to control myself, for their benefit.
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Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 20, 2017, 05:23:30 PM
.
.
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AS IT SAYS IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION.
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Don't you mean the Apocalypse of Saint John?
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Oh, sorry, right, I forgot that you're Protestant.
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Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 20, 2017, 05:27:54 PM
Is this what they picture for the New Jerusalem?
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When I need "a picture of the New Jerusalem" there's plenty of good Catholic literature from which to choose.
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But you would certainly prefer your water-cooler version of reality, no?
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Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 20, 2017, 05:51:30 PM
;D They (assuming they believe all infallible dogmas' of the Catholic Church without innovations) will be so disgusted that the New Jerusalem rests on the new flat earth, will they even want to experience this beautiful place that is not up to their spherical standards? ;D
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And you are asking about infallible dogmas' what?
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Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: cassini on September 20, 2017, 06:04:08 PM
Man is capable of so much more.
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"God created Adam with starlight visible to him. In other words, it did not take starlight time to reach us."
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Reading this quickly, a shallow, superficial reader won't give it a second thought.
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But humor me for a moment, will ya? (No, I am not accusing you of being superficial, dear reader.)
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The starlight Adam first saw was light coming from the direction of stars, light true to the stars themselves, but light that existed before the stars from which it "obviously comes" existed. This is to say that had Adam been created a few days earlier in Creation, he would have seen starlight coming to him even though there were no existing stars yet in the sky.
.

When God created man time began for us. True time then is universal for the universe was ready for us, from the moon to the furthest star, no matter how far away it was. If the universe spins in 24 hours, then everything in it shares the same time.

As you probably know the greatest mystery for science is the 'theory of everything,' that is what causes gravity. Domenico Cassini, God's astronomer, solved that problem but never pursued it.

He hangeth the Earth upon nothing not to be moved.
Upon what are its bases grounded. (Job 26; 7&38:6)
 
Of all creation acts to be replaced by evolution, one non-evolvable entity sticks out - space itself - that heavenly place into which the Earth, sun, moon and stars were placed, that space created by God in the beginning as recorded in the first line of Genesis. Then there was the creation of physical light, a creation that Einstein tried somehow to join with gravity. Physical light is believed to be an effect of the sun whereas Scripture clearly tells us it was more than that, for it was created before the sun. Only after the angelic lights (the angels) were themselves separated were the sun and moon given their task by God, the sun to generate light for day and the moon to reflect the sun’s light for night.

     Today, true science understands light and its effects, describing it as within a certain portion of the electromagnetic spectrum. We are now proposing that in the beginning when God created ‘light’ the Lord created what amounts to universal electromagnetism throughout space, the means whereby the material universe would operate in so many ways. It is light that gives colour to the universe, from multicoloured galaxies to the clear blue sky of day. In similar manner, as science has now discovered, it is light that causes the ocean to be blue and the plains and forests to be green. It is light that ‘provides the energy that plants use to create sugars mostly in the form of starches, which release energy into the living things that digest them. This process of photosynthesis provides virtually all the energy used by living things.’ But more than this, for that same growth provides the oxygen that would mix with the nitrogen to provide the air necessary for life. In other words, when God created light he not only provided the medium by which all with vision could see things, but He also provided the means whereby the Earth could supply oxygen and perpetual growth and thus sustain all on it for as long as He wills it to be in existence. But there is another cause provided by that ‘light’ created on the first day of creation that Domenico Cassini found evidence for, electromagnetic effects that are to be found in the movement of celestial bodies, effects that could move the universe and also sustain the Earth as the immobile centre of the universe. 
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 20, 2017, 07:01:46 PM
(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/d-colorful-different-people-around-earth-world-globe-illustration-standing-concept-global-village-network-33915590.jpg)
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I couldn't stand the thought of so many Jєωs drowning.
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Plus, one person in Madagascar sounds about right.
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Probably an XSPX priest sent to evangelize the baboons.
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Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 20, 2017, 07:16:23 PM
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What it would look like if people were 300 miles tall......................
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(https://s15-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Fil8.picdn.net%2Fshutterstock%2Fvideos%2F1570786%2Fthumb%2F1.jpg&sp=ee81bcc8fa4694f08f49e168eae3e53d)                        
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Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Tradplorable on September 20, 2017, 08:01:11 PM
Is this what they picture for the New Jerusalem?
That's really funny.
The City of God and His Kingdom of Heaven is a giant pin cushion.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Tradplorable on September 20, 2017, 08:33:44 PM
(http://phyllismilot.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/new-jerusalem.jpg)
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Carissima on September 20, 2017, 09:33:32 PM
(http://phyllismilot.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/new-jerusalem.jpg)


OH BEAUTIFUL 
Much better than this monstrosity brought to you by 
the ESA (European Space Agency)..
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: St Ignatius on September 20, 2017, 09:38:12 PM
(http://phyllismilot.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/new-jerusalem.jpg)
Ohh poor deplorable trad... you forgot to edit out the curvature.... :laugh2:
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Carissima on September 20, 2017, 09:43:40 PM
That's really funny.
The City of God and His Kingdom of Heaven is a giant pin cushion.

Google 'true shape of the earth'
But let me warn you, it ain't pretty. 

The fact that some Catholics here still aren't seeing that modern science is making a mockery of God's Created Earth with their cgi horror show is beyond me. 

Fool me once NASA, 
shame on you, 
fool me twice? 

Nope
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Carissima on September 20, 2017, 09:44:58 PM
Ohh poor deplorable trad... you forgot to edit out the curvature.... :laugh2:
Have you ever seen a disk?
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 20, 2017, 10:04:04 PM
Ohh poor deplorable trad... you forgot to edit out the curvature.... :laugh2:
That CGI is a representation of the circle of the flat earth.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 20, 2017, 10:05:39 PM
Have you ever seen a disk?
He has seen a disk before, but he refuses to elevate himself into a position of being able to recognize one.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Tradplorable on September 20, 2017, 10:09:01 PM

OH BEAUTIFUL
Much better than this monstrosity brought to you by
the ESA (European Space Agency)..
The Freemasons and the Kabbalists always make things ugly.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: MyrnaM on September 20, 2017, 10:54:29 PM
He has seen a disk before, but he refuses to elevate himself into a position of being able to recognize one.
So the "flat earth" isn't really flat, is what you are saying ... Hmmm!  I think!  :o
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 20, 2017, 11:21:20 PM
So the "flat earth" isn't really flat, is what you are saying ... Hmmm!  I think!  :o
It has already been proven to you that the earth is flat.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Carissima on September 20, 2017, 11:50:34 PM
It has already been proven to you that the earth is flat.
Perhaps we could stop calling it 'flat' earth and just say 'snow globe' earth instead. That way, those who are still having trouble can understand better, and in simpler terms what we are saying about the shape of the earth. 
Plus, they get to keep the word Globe too  :jumping2:
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: MyrnaM on September 21, 2017, 10:09:15 AM
Perhaps we could stop calling it 'flat' earth and just say 'snow globe' earth instead. That way, those who are still having trouble can understand better, and in simpler terms what we are saying about the shape of the earth.
Plus, they get to keep the word Globe too  :jumping2:
What foolish pride, the snow globe only proves that flatearthers believe MAN can improve on God's design.  Isn't that the theme of Vatican II also the worship of MAN.  Who needs God when mankind can do it better thinking.  
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 21, 2017, 11:45:10 AM
What foolish pride, the snow globe only proves that flatearthers believe MAN can improve on God's design.  Isn't that the theme of Vatican II also the worship of MAN.  Who needs God when mankind can do it better thinking.  
God created the flat earth; We are not improving on anything God created. It is you who need to get down on your knees and respect the whole of God's creation.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 21, 2017, 01:54:32 PM
God created the flat earth; 
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In your dreams!
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Quote
We are not improving on anything God created. 
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So then why do you want to change it into something it isn't -- flat?
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Quote
It is you who need to get down on your knees and respect the whole of God's creation.
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We respect God's global earth creation just fine, thank you.
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Keep on posting your flat-earth nonsense in this thread otherwise it won't have any activity.
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Because if you couldn't be miserable over flat-earthism you'd have nothing to talk about.
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Blessed are the poor in spirit.
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Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 21, 2017, 02:13:58 PM
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                  Flat-Earthers Recognize They Have a Problem, Consider Dropping the Term, "Flat"
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Perhaps we could stop calling it 'flat' earth and just say 'snow globe' earth instead. That way, those who are still having trouble can understand better, and in simpler terms what we are saying about the shape of the earth. 
Plus, they get to keep the word Globe too  :jumping2:
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Yeah, it would be a good idea to give up on the word "flat" because it's just fantasy in your dreams.
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Fat-earthers cannot answer why the moon has the phases it does.
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As often as I have asked the question not one of them here has been able to answer it.
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The flat-earthers try to change the topic or they pretend to offer a reply which in fact is their answer to a different question.
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Flat-earthers don't want to be asked about the moon's phases. They HATE that topic.
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The moon poses a HUGE problem for flat-earthers, one they cannot address, because it is beyond their flat world.
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Nonetheless, the moon is right there for all to see every day, proclaiming with an infallible voice "The Earth Is Spherical" and flat-earthers hate that.
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Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Meg on September 21, 2017, 02:19:01 PM

   Nonetheless, the moon is right there for all to see every day, proclaiming with an infallible voice "The Earth Is Spherical" and flat-earthers hate that.


:jester:

Too funny, Neal! Maybe you make a Gary Larson type of cartoon out of that.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 21, 2017, 03:49:13 PM
:jester:

Too funny, Neal! Maybe you make a Gary Larson type of cartoon out of that.
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I'm so pleased to be entertaining for you. It makes me happy. When I visit the funny farm it's easy to get inmates to laugh. Feels great.
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Speaking of Gary Larson cartoons, here's one that shows two flat-earthers on a little island in plain view. But they're not getting noticed.
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Gee. I wounder why that is? Maybe I make a type out of thin air just for you.
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(https://s17-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2F736x%2Faf%2F96%2F6c%2Faf966c7f0f1fc0feae9bd5396b8756e7--jane-goodall-gary-larson.jpg&sp=ded6e28705257e47ad66a8c87d58e6c4)                              
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Meg on September 21, 2017, 03:58:02 PM

Speaking of Gary Larson cartoons, here's one that shows two flat-earthers on a little island in plain view. But they're not getting noticed.
                             
 

I have to disagree. FE is getting noticed. Otherwise you and the others would not have tried to get the subject banned here (I assume that you are one of those who complained about FE being discussed on the forum).

 
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 21, 2017, 04:12:57 PM
:jester:

Too funny, Neal! Maybe you make a Gary Larson type of cartoon out of that.
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Maybe I make two Gary Larson type cartoons out of that.
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See the bubbles behind the cowboy-character? Those are flat bubbles, just like all bubbles are flat, like the flat-earth.
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NOT.
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(https://s15-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2F736x%2Fbb%2F21%2F15%2Fbb2115a691f1b889b57189335ab22a1e--science-humor-the-far-side-gary-larson-comics.jpg&sp=3ae6ce66030a5efccb87381d66475095)                                                  
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Bubbles are flat in a flat-earth world, and so are balloons. Yes, flat balloons, everywhere you look! ------------- NOT.
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(https://s17-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2F736x%2Fda%2F41%2Fd8%2Fda41d859e450280d02518bbb2c27aefc--far-side-comics-gary-larson.jpg&sp=3abdf39ce4ee811bc7a14704b8892ff2)                                                 
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HAHAHAHA so funny.
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Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 21, 2017, 04:16:05 PM
I have to disagree. FE is getting noticed. Otherwise you and the others would not have tried to get the subject banned here (I assume that you are one of those who complained about FE being discussed on the forum).
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So,,,,,,,,,,,,,, are you asking me, or are you telling me? 
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Because I had thought YOU were one of the ones who complained since you seemed so uncomfortable with the discussion.
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BTW what does this have to do with the physical location of heaven?
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Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: DZ PLEASE on September 21, 2017, 04:28:11 PM
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So,,,,,,,,,,,,,, are you asking me, or are you telling me?
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Because I had thought YOU were one of the ones who complained since you seemed so uncomfortable with the discussion.
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BTW what does this have to do with the physical location of heaven?
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Heaven can only be "above" one spot on Earth if it isn't flat, unless Heaven is ... a globe too!

"Eureka!"
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Tradplorable on September 22, 2017, 10:26:20 AM
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Don't you mean the Apocalypse of Saint John?
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Oh, sorry, right, I forgot that you're Protestant.
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The word apocalypse come from the Greek, apokalupsis, which means: "revelation, to reveal, the unveiling, the uncovering."
Shows how dumb you are, Neil Obstinate.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: MyrnaM on September 22, 2017, 11:59:07 AM
The point is the word Apocalypse is what the Catholic Bible uses and the word Revelation is what the Protestant bible uses.

You, however, would miss the point if you sat on it.  
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Tradplorable on September 22, 2017, 12:44:14 PM
The point is the word Apocalypse is what the Catholic Bible uses and the word Revelation is what the Protestant bible uses.

You, however, would miss the point if you sat on it.  
You people are so idiotic it is painful.
Here is the OFFICIAL site of the 1899 Douay-Rheims Bible.
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READ IT AND WEEP:
"Apocalypse/Revelation".
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You're as wrong about the Bible as you are the flat earth. In fact, it looks to me like you don't even bother to actually read the Bible, since you don't believe what it says or believe the titles of its Books.
,
http://drbo.org/chapter/73001.htm
.
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YOU would not recognize the Truth if Jesus Himself slapped you in the face with the Book of REVELATION.

Quote
Douay-Rheims Bible + Challoner Notes

< previous (http://drbo.org/chapter/72001.htm)  The Apocalypse Of Saint John (Revelation) next >
< previous  Chapter 1 next (http://drbo.org/chapter/73002.htm) >


0102 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73002.htm)03 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73003.htm)04 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73004.htm)05 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73005.htm)06 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73006.htm)07 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73007.htm)08 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73008.htm)09 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73009.htm)10 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73010.htm)11 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73011.htm)12 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73012.htm)13 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73013.htm)14 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73014.htm)15 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73015.htm)16 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73016.htm)17 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73017.htm)18 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73018.htm)19 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73019.htm)20 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73020.htm)
21 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73021.htm)22 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73022.htm)

St. John is ordered to write to the seven churches in Asia. The manner of Christ's appearing to him.
[1] (http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=73&ch=1&l=1-#x) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to make known to his servants the things which must shortly come to pass: and signified, sending by his angel to his servant John, [2] (http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=73&ch=1&l=2-#x) Who hath given testimony to the word of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ, what things soever he hath seen.






Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Student of Qi on September 22, 2017, 01:10:54 PM
Heaven can only be "above" one spot on Earth if it isn't flat, unless Heaven is ... a globe too!

"Eureka!"
The Flat Earthers have said Jerusalem is the centre of the world, so by their own charts of the dome, etc. Heaven has to be strait up from the middle of the city of Jerusalem. At least, that is the conclusion I come to.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: St Ignatius on September 22, 2017, 01:33:44 PM
You people are so idiotic it is painful.
I sincerely pity you... I believe you show the symptoms of being a victim of The Dunning-Kruger Effect.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: kiwiboy on September 22, 2017, 02:37:56 PM
The Flat Earthers have said Jerusalem is the centre of the world, so by their own charts of the dome, etc. Heaven has to be strait up from the middle of the city of Jerusalem. At least, that is the conclusion I come to.
On the gleason map it is not the center of the world. But it depends how far the dome expands out to.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: kiwiboy on September 22, 2017, 02:39:55 PM
I sincerely pity you... I believe you show the symptoms of being a victim of The Dunning-Kruger Effect.
Have you actually taken the time to study the issue at all?
I have posted videos showing the lack of curvature. How do you explain this? Rather than just resorting to mocking us, why don't you try to engage in intelligent discussion. I, for one, am open to it and am going to keep trying.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: DZ PLEASE on September 22, 2017, 03:16:47 PM
You people are so idiotic it is painful.
Here is the OFFICIAL site of the 1899 Douay-Rheims Bible.
.
.
READ IT AND WEEP:
"Apocalypse/Revelation".
.
.
You're as wrong about the Bible as you are the flat earth. In fact, it looks to me like you don't even bother to actually read the Bible, since you don't believe what it says or believe the titles of its Books.
,
http://drbo.org/chapter/73001.htm
.
.
YOU would not recognize the Truth if Jesus Himself slapped you in the face with the Book of REVELATION.
1. Who made it "official"?
1. What office of the Church is this of?
2. What words are in the DR? That's pretty "official" of itself, no? (here, let me help you with that D-R NT Canon (https://archive.org/details/1582DouaiRheimsDouayRheimsFirstEdition3Of31582NewTestament))
3. What is in the Vulgate?
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: DZ PLEASE on September 22, 2017, 03:26:58 PM
1. Who made it "official"?
1. What office of the Church is this of?
2. What words are in the DR? That's pretty "official" of itself, no? (here, let me help you with that D-R NT Canon (https://archive.org/details/1582DouaiRheimsDouayRheimsFirstEdition3Of31582NewTestament))
3. What is in the Vulgate? Oh hey lookit, for just one...  Vulgate/English APOCALYPSIS (https://archive.org/stream/newetestamentbot00cove#page/n657/mode/2up)
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Tradplorable on September 23, 2017, 08:29:46 AM
The Flat Earthers have said Jerusalem is the centre of the world, so by their own charts of the dome, etc. Heaven has to be strait up from the middle of the city of Jerusalem. At least, that is the conclusion I come to.
Even in the movie "The Sign" that I posted they refer to Jerusalem as the "umbilicus" of the world.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Tradplorable on September 23, 2017, 10:03:40 AM
I sincerely pity you... I believe you show the symptoms of being a victim of The Dunning-Kruger Effect.
I do not overestimate my competence.
.
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When I stand on the beach and look at the sea, or go to a high mountain and look at the horizon, I believe what my eyes perceive: it is flat.
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(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Sailing_Boat_Horizon.JPG)
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Simple.
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You, on the other hand, have to perform some serious mental gymnastics (as a result of your indoctrination from birth) in order to disbelieve own your eyes and come to the conclusion that the earth is a ball.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: DZ PLEASE on September 23, 2017, 10:48:19 AM
I do not overestimate my competence.
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When I stand on the beach and look at the sea, or go to a high mountain and look at the horizon, I believe what my eyes perceive: it is flat.
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(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Sailing_Boat_Horizon.JPG)
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Simple.
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You, on the other hand, have to perform some serious mental gymnastics (as a result of your indoctrination from birth) in order to disbelieve own your eyes and come to the conclusion that the earth is a ball.
...and when I carved a column I had to do some, not too serious, "mental gymnastics" to make it look straight via making it curved.

You're wrong on your principles in a similar way as well, or do you really think that the entire sea is really perfectly planar, i.e. "flat"?

The bunny doesn't "teleport" to the tophat; "magic" ain't magic.

I'll wait to break the news about the Easter Bunny and Santa, you've enough trauma for one day.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: josefamenendez on September 23, 2017, 12:57:47 PM
The Apocalypse means the unveiling. I think we are submerged in Heaven all around us, as it is Reality , without being "in" it until God takes the scales off of our eyes, scrolls up this matrix of the universe, in an instant, like a window shade and unveils True Eternity to us. So it is a place... where we are at now may not be a substantive place... just be a lot of 00000" and 111111's.
If Jesus says the Kingdom of God is within us is it just a state or a place, too? It must be very close.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Student of Qi on September 23, 2017, 01:09:27 PM
I recall the prophet Daniel asking God how far Heaven was, God answered: "The length of a prayer." 

How far does a prayer go? I suppose there are many ways to look at this passage.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: DZ PLEASE on September 23, 2017, 01:38:20 PM
The Apocalypse means the unveiling. I think we are submerged in Heaven all around us, as it is Reality , without being "in" it until God takes the scales off of our eyes, scrolls up this matrix of the universe, in an instant, like a window shade and unveils True Eternity to us. So it is a place... where we are at now may not be a substantive place... just be a lot of 00000" and 111111's.
If Jesus says the Kingdom of God is within us is it just a state or a place, too? It must be very close.
accidents v substance.

"Through... with... in..."

"Eye has not seen... "
The eye can't see the eye.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Neil Obstat on October 04, 2017, 01:52:27 PM
It has already been proven to you that the earth is flat.
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Not only does Truth is Transitory keep posting falsehoods like this, he tries to make threads that have nothing to do with flat-earthism into flat-earth threads. 
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Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: Meg on October 04, 2017, 02:01:33 PM
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Not only does Truth is Transitory keep posting falsehoods like this, he tries to make threads that have nothing to do with flat-earthism into flat-earth threads.
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You think that this thread has nothing to do with FE? Evidently, you haven't read the OP.
Title: Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
Post by: kiwiboy on October 04, 2017, 04:38:29 PM
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Not only does Truth is Transitory keep posting falsehoods like this, he tries to make threads that have nothing to do with flat-earthism into flat-earth threads.
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No he is totally right.


And here again for the general humour of our readers, Ladies and Gentelmen, I give you NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEIL OBSTAT



https://youtu.be/1D5Sa2Yq-2g


"Quote from: Neil Obstat on Yesterday at 05:42:06 PM



    .
    So there is no point in trying to make you happy. You are always going to be unhappy.
    .
    You are an unhappy person, Truth is Transitory.
    .
    You are unhappy, and that's the way you like it.
    .
    You are miserable, cantankerous, discontented, spiteful, full of anxiety and calumnious.
    .
    If you don't find a way to LIGHTEN UP you'll dig yourself an early grave.   "