Hi, longtime reader of CI, new to posting.If you haven't read the book "End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life", I highly recommend reading this awesome book.
Traditional Catholic to my core, love Holy Mother Church and accept all of Her Teachings without reserve, and by God's grace working to resist and fight any and all modern errors and heresies.
So seeing all this flat earth talk I wanted to share my thoughts on the subject.
In regards to how the Firmament is placed above us, and after that the universe with endless galaxies beyond it, I have asked myself, where is Heaven located PHYSICALLY?
Is it in some other dimension entirely?
Perhaps it's only a 'spiritual place' and not physical at all?
I am no theologian but being Catholic and hoping to go there someday, I'd like to have a visual to ponder during meditation.
So what does modern science say today..
The Big Bang Professors over at NASA say that 'Beyond our own galaxy lies a vast expanse of galaxies. The deeper we see into space, the more galaxies we discover. There are billions of galaxies, the most distant of which are so far away that the light arriving from them on Earth today set out from the galaxies billions of years ago. So we see them not as they are today, but as they looked long before there was any life on Earth. '
Sorry but as a Catholic, I don't buy it.
After reading Scripture, and taking it LITERALLY, I know that Heaven is PHYSICALLY located above my head,
beyond the sky and on the other side of The Firmament.
I know for a fact that modern day atheist scientists over at NASA, and others, are purposefully LYING to us about 'endless space' and 'the ever expanding universe' and all with the goal of separating Man in relation with his Creator.
Because with endless light years between Man and God, there the 'Perfect Deception' can begin to form in men's minds.
Sinners at ease knowing that 'the space between' gives them plenty of time for their pleasure and fun, and it just keeps getting BIGGER.
Several years ago I laughed at a science channel program when I heard the narrator say that there are 'universes beyond the universe' (lol) even then I knew what modern science was trying to do..attempting to push my God and His existance further away from me.
Being a great sinner with much to answer for, it was not so terrifying to think of God's Eyes seeing me from a million light years away on the other side of the zillionth galaxy. Though for me now it is a much different reality when I step out on my deck outside and look straight up and imagine Him looking right back at me from the other side of the sky. No more 'space between'.
And even on a better note, and following on the same line of thought, it is so much more Beautiful when contemplating The Sacred Heart of Jesus, Mary and The Angels, and my Sainted Friends in Heaven.
Heaven is a PLACE, and I hope to go there.
Where is Heaven located PHYSICALLY?
[...]
Perhaps it's only a 'spiritual place' and not physical at all?
The question I have is "How much can you really read this in a litteral manner?" Because I seem to recall somewhere in the New Testamen that it was said "Everything is said in metafores/parables"? Now, if you take that litteraly...
I believe Heaven is a city with many mansions, John 14;2. Therefore a place!
Sorry but as a Catholic, I don't buy it.
After reading Scripture, and taking it LITERALLY, I know that Heaven is PHYSICALLY located above my head,
beyond the sky and on the other side of The Firmament.
I know for a fact that modern day atheist scientists over at NASA, and others, are purposefully LYING to us about 'endless space' and 'the ever expanding universe' and all with the goal of separating Man in relation with his Creator.
Because with endless light years between Man and God, there the 'Perfect Deception' can begin to form in men's minds.
Sinners at ease knowing that 'the space between' gives them plenty of time for their pleasure and fun, and it just keeps getting BIGGER.
Several years ago I laughed at a science channel program when I heard the narrator say that there are 'universes beyond the universe' (lol) even then I knew what modern science was trying to do..attempting to push my God and His existance further away from me.
Being a great sinner with much to answer for, it was not so terrifying to think of God's Eyes seeing me from a million light years away on the other side of the zillionth galaxy. Though for me now it is a much different reality when I step out on my deck outside and look straight up and imagine Him looking right back at me from the other side of the sky. No more 'space between'.
And even on a better note, and following on the same line of thought, it is so much more Beautiful when contemplating The Sacred Heart of Jesus, Mary and The Angels, and my Sainted Friends in Heaven.
Heaven is a PLACE, and I hope to go there.
If you haven't read the book "End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life", I highly recommend reading this awesome book.I own this book and have yet to read it..perhaps I should bump it up the list. My library is just too big for the hours I have left to live to read them all lol :D
" Reply to Objection 1. The earth stands in relation to the heaven (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07170a.htm) as the centre of a circle to its circuмference. But as one center may have many circuмferences, so, though there is but one earth, there may be many heavens"Great link thanks!
Summa Theologiae Q:68 Art. iv (http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1068.htm)
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07170a.htm#I
I am totally open to correction here but I imagine that space and distances, especially in relation to our physical creation are not the same as we imagine it. Heaven is infinite in time, and probably in space. Hell is a physical place also, as is purgatory, so where do they square in relation to the physical place of heaven? I don't know the answer.Well if newadvent even says the word 'roof' and 'upper region', we are certainly left wondering about the people in Australia who are upside down to it.
But I certainly can say that in relation to the physical creation we live in, I agree with you that it is above us.
Well if newadvent even says the word 'roof' and 'upper region', we are certainly left wondering about the people in Australia who are upside down to it..
Great link thanks!Not sure exactly how an absolutely simple God can sit at the right hand of God, or how those who have seen Christ have seen the Father, and yet none have seen God and lived.
I found this located there at newadvent which also confirms that The Firmament has been thought to be as a 'roof'.
Some derive heaven from the root ham, "to cover" (cf. the Gothic ham-ôn and the German Hem-d). According to this derivation heaven would be conceived as the roof of the world. Others trace a connection between himin (heaven) and home; according to this view, which seems to be the more probable, heaven would be the abode of the Godhead (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm). The Latin coelum (koilon, a vault) is derived by many from the root of celare "to cover, to conceal" (coelum, "ceiling" "roof of the world"). Others, however think it is connected with the Germanic himin. The Greek ouranos is probably derived from the root var, which also connotes the idea (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07630a.htm) of covering. The Hebrew name for heaven is thought to be derived from a word meaning "on high"; accordingly, heaven would designate the upper region of the world.'
Not sure how a roof, vault, canopy or pavilion (all described as the Firmament) could fit onto a ball or sphere shape :confused:
Not sure exactly how an absolutely simple God can sit at the right hand of God, or how those who have seen Christ have seen the Father, and yet none have seen God and lived.
(s.a., e.g., "The Language of Accommodation.")
You mean like this?
Not sure how a roof, vault, canopy or pavilion (all described as the Firmament) could fit onto a ball or sphere shape :confused:
If you haven't read the book, "End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life," I highly recommend reading this awesome book..
So what does modern science say today..
The Big Bang Professors over at NASA say that 'Beyond our own galaxy lies a vast expanse of galaxies. The deeper we see into space, the more galaxies we discover. There are billions of galaxies, the most distant of which are so far away that the light arriving from them on Earth today set out from the galaxies billions of years ago. So we see them not as they are today, but as they looked long before there was any life on Earth. '
Sorry but as a Catholic, I don't buy it.
After reading Scripture, and taking it LITERALLY, I know that Heaven is PHYSICALLY located above my head,
beyond the sky and on the other side of The Firmament.
I know for a fact that modern day atheist scientists over at NASA, and others, are purposefully LYING to us about 'endless space' and 'the ever expanding universe' and all with the goal of separating Man in relation with his Creator.
Because with endless light years between Man and God, there the 'Perfect Deception' can begin to form in men's minds.
Sinners at ease knowing that 'the space between' gives them plenty of time for their pleasure and fun, and it just keeps getting BIGGER.
Several years ago I laughed at a science channel program when I heard the narrator say that there are 'universes beyond the universe' (lol) even then I knew what modern science was trying to do..attempting to push my God and His existance further away from me.
Being a great sinner with much to answer for, it was not so terrifying to think of God's Eyes seeing me from a million light years away on the other side of the zillionth galaxy. Though for me now it is a much different reality when I step out on my deck outside and look straight up and imagine Him looking right back at me from the other side of the sky. No more 'space between'.
And even on a better note, and following on the same line of thought, it is so much more Beautiful when contemplating The Sacred Heart of Jesus, Mary and The Angels, and my Sainted Friends in Heaven.
Heaven is a PLACE, and I hope to go there.
Great link thanks!.
I found this located there at newadvent which also confirms that The Firmament has been thought to be as a 'roof'.
Some derive heaven from the root ham, "to cover" (cf. the Gothic ham-ôn and the German Hem-d). According to this derivation heaven would be conceived as the roof of the world. Others trace a connection between himin (heaven) and home; according to this view, which seems to be the more probable, heaven would be the abode of the Godhead (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm). The Latin coelum (koilon, a vault) is derived by many from the root of celare "to cover, to conceal" (coelum, "ceiling" "roof of the world"). Others, however think it is connected with the Germanic himin. The Greek ouranos is probably derived from the root var, which also connotes the idea (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07630a.htm) of covering. The Hebrew name for heaven is thought to be derived from a word meaning "on high"; accordingly, heaven would designate the upper region of the world.'
Not sure how a roof, vault, canopy or pavilion (all described as the Firmament) could fit onto a ball or sphere shape :confused:
You mean like this?You're missing some coverage on your ball there
(https://us.123rf.com/450wm/forestpath/forestpath1004/forestpath100400039/6853220-illustration-of-a-defeated-little-boy-who-is-failing-in-school-wearing-a-dunce-cap.jpg?ver=6)
You're missing some coverage on your ball thereAussies need some vault too
(http://webkit-fake-url://91b109a3-dd59-43d3-a776-ccf8b0f069de/imagejpeg)
Aussies need some vault tooSee there if you figured it out, I feel confident God can also figure it out!
Well if newadvent even says the word 'roof' and 'upper region', we are certainly left wondering about the people in Australia who are upside down to it.Exactly.
Well if newadvent even says the word 'roof' and 'upper region', we are certainly left wondering about the people in Australia who are upside down to it.
Again and again we witness these flat-earthers bring God's Creation down to a human level. To them only a flat-Earth has an up and a down. If monkeys could talk I suspect that is what they would also say for the truth of creation is beyond human comprehension. Flat-earthism would deny God's ability to create the earth as a globe just like the moon and all the planets man can see. Flat-earthism denies the ongoing miracle of gravity, that which has mankind on every part of our global earth to have the sky above and the ground below.:applause:
The OP talks about the size of the universe and the number of stars in it. God created that many (as numerous as the grains of sand on Earth) to show mankind they cannot comprehend his power. There is no physical limit to what God can create, so do not even try to put a limit on the universe.
As for those billions of light years for some starlight to get to us, well ponder on the fact that God created Adam with starlight visible to him. In other words it did not take starlight time to reach us. In more words, MANKIND sees the visable universe in OUR TIME. Einstein's time is for atheists and monkeys, those who put a limit of God's omnipotence, try to bring Him down to our level.
Heaven has to be a place for physical mankind to reside, just as Hell is a place for the same reason. Again do not try to tell God he could not have created His Heaven outside the physical universe as we know it from all sides of the global Earth.
Again and again we witness these flat-earthers bring God's Creation down to a human level. To them only a flat-Earth has an up and a down. If monkeys could talk I suspect that is what they would also say for the truth of creation is beyond human comprehension. Flat-earthism would deny God's ability to create the earth as a globe just like the moon and all the planets man can see. Flat-earthism denies the ongoing miracle of gravity, that which has mankind on every part of our global earth to have the sky above and the ground below.Thank you for the sanity.
The OP talks about the size of the universe and the number of stars in it. God created that many (as numerous as the grains of sand on Earth) to show mankind they cannot comprehend his power. There is no physical limit to what God can create, so do not even try to put a limit on the universe.
As for those billions of light years for some starlight to get to us, well ponder on the fact that God created Adam with starlight visible to him. In other words it did not take starlight time to reach us. In more words, MANKIND sees the visable universe in OUR TIME. Einstein's time is for atheists and monkeys, those who put a limit of God's omnipotence, try to bring Him down to our level.
Heaven has to be a place for physical mankind to reside, just as Hell is a place for the same reason. Again do not try to tell God he could not have created His Heaven outside the physical universe as we know it from all sides of the global Earth.
Those who are in love with the religion
defined as...?
of Modern Science believe that even with the use of human reason, Man cannot understand God's Creation in a plain and simple manner.
Isn't understanding "... creation in a plain and simple manner..." one way of saying what Science, "modern" or otherwise, is?
Fuzzy terms make for hairy thinking.
Again and again we witness these flat-earthers bring God's Creation down to a human level. To them only a flat-Earth has an up and a down. If monkeys could talk I suspect that is what they would also say for the truth of creation is beyond human comprehension. Flat-earthism would deny God's ability to create the earth as a globe just like the moon and all the planets man can see. Flat-earthism denies the ongoing miracle of gravity, that which has mankind on every part of our global earth to have the sky above and the ground below..
The OP talks about the size of the universe and the number of stars in it. God created that many (as numerous as the grains of sand on Earth) to show mankind they cannot comprehend his power. There is no physical limit to what God can create, so do not even try to put a limit on the universe.
As for those billions of light years for some starlight to get to us, well ponder on the fact that God created Adam with starlight visible to him. In other words it did not take starlight time to reach us. In more words, MANKIND sees the visable universe in OUR TIME. Einstein's time is for atheists and monkeys, those who put a limit of God's omnipotence, try to bring Him down to our level.
Heaven has to be a place for physical mankind to reside, just as Hell is a place for the same reason. Again do not try to tell God he could not have created His Heaven outside the physical universe as we know it from all sides of the global Earth.
Astrophysicists today assure us that if the stars we "see" in the sky were to suddenly cease to exist, we wouldn't know of it for millions of years, perhaps even billions of years, because that's how long it takes for the light they're emitting to reach us. And so-called logically since by that time our own sun might have burned out we shouldn't be concerned with thinking about how the world looks because certainly we won't be here to look at it. Furthermore, for all we know, they might not exist at all even now, because we're looking at light they emitted millions of years ago, or longer, and we have no idea what has happened in the meantime.Between your last post here and Cassini's, someone should consider creating a suitable Blog with a compilation of intelligent thinking.
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WoW Neil O I really like this thought-provoking idea. Between your last post here and Cassini's, someone should consider creating a suitable Blog with a compilation of intelligent thinking.... that wouldn't be thread jacked by Lovers of Flat...
.Boy, aren't you going to be in for a helluva surprise at the end of days when the stars fall from the heavens.
Astrophysicists today assure us that if the stars we "see" in the sky were to suddenly cease to exist, we wouldn't know of it for millions of years, perhaps even billions of years, because that's how long it takes for the light they're emitting to reach us. And so-called logically since by that time our own sun might have burned out we shouldn't be concerned with thinking about how the world looks because certainly we won't be here to look at it. Furthermore, for all we know, they might not exist at all even now, because we're looking at light they emitted millions of years ago, or longer, and we have no idea what has happened in the meantime.
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And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered; that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son. Rev. 12:4/DRV
Boy, aren't you going to be in for a helluva surprise at the end of days when the stars fall from the heavens.;D They (assuming they believe all infallible dogmas' of the Catholic Church without innovations) will be so disgusted that the New Jerusalem rests on the new flat earth, will they even want to experience this beautiful place that is not up to their spherical standards? ;D
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AS IT SAYS IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION.
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Boy, aren't you going to be in for a helluva surprise at the end of days when the stars fall from the heavens.I doubt the astrophysicist-followers take that Scripture passage literally, it doesn't match what Neil Degrasse or Mr Scientist would say over at NASA, so it most likely would be considered a parable with an alternate meaning.
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AS IT SAYS IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION.
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;D They (assuming they believe all infallible dogmas' of the Catholic Church without innovations) will be so disgusted that the New Jerusalem rests on the new flat earth, will they even want to experience this beautiful place that is not up to their spherical standards? ;DIs this what they picture for the New Jerusalem?
Is this what they picture for the New Jerusalem?They probably believe they will be going around and around for all eternity wondering why everyone is always upside-down all of the time.
WoW Neil O I really like this thought-provoking idea. Between your last post here and Cassini's, someone should consider creating a suitable Blog with a compilation of intelligent thinking..
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AS IT SAYS IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION.
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Is this what they picture for the New Jerusalem?.
;D They (assuming they believe all infallible dogmas' of the Catholic Church without innovations) will be so disgusted that the New Jerusalem rests on the new flat earth, will they even want to experience this beautiful place that is not up to their spherical standards? ;D.
Man is capable of so much more.
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"God created Adam with starlight visible to him. In other words, it did not take starlight time to reach us."
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Reading this quickly, a shallow, superficial reader won't give it a second thought.
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But humor me for a moment, will ya? (No, I am not accusing you of being superficial, dear reader.)
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The starlight Adam first saw was light coming from the direction of stars, light true to the stars themselves, but light that existed before the stars from which it "obviously comes" existed. This is to say that had Adam been created a few days earlier in Creation, he would have seen starlight coming to him even though there were no existing stars yet in the sky.
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(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/d-colorful-different-people-around-earth-world-globe-illustration-standing-concept-global-village-network-33915590.jpg).
Is this what they picture for the New Jerusalem?That's really funny.
(http://phyllismilot.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/new-jerusalem.jpg)
(http://phyllismilot.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/new-jerusalem.jpg)Ohh poor deplorable trad... you forgot to edit out the curvature.... :laugh2:
That's really funny.
The City of God and His Kingdom of Heaven is a giant pin cushion.
Ohh poor deplorable trad... you forgot to edit out the curvature.... :laugh2:Have you ever seen a disk?
Ohh poor deplorable trad... you forgot to edit out the curvature.... :laugh2:That CGI is a representation of the circle of the flat earth.
Have you ever seen a disk?He has seen a disk before, but he refuses to elevate himself into a position of being able to recognize one.
The Freemasons and the Kabbalists always make things ugly.
OH BEAUTIFUL
Much better than this monstrosity brought to you by
the ESA (European Space Agency)..
He has seen a disk before, but he refuses to elevate himself into a position of being able to recognize one.So the "flat earth" isn't really flat, is what you are saying ... Hmmm! I think! :o
So the "flat earth" isn't really flat, is what you are saying ... Hmmm! I think! :oIt has already been proven to you that the earth is flat.
It has already been proven to you that the earth is flat.Perhaps we could stop calling it 'flat' earth and just say 'snow globe' earth instead. That way, those who are still having trouble can understand better, and in simpler terms what we are saying about the shape of the earth.
Perhaps we could stop calling it 'flat' earth and just say 'snow globe' earth instead. That way, those who are still having trouble can understand better, and in simpler terms what we are saying about the shape of the earth.What foolish pride, the snow globe only proves that flatearthers believe MAN can improve on God's design. Isn't that the theme of Vatican II also the worship of MAN. Who needs God when mankind can do it better thinking.
Plus, they get to keep the word Globe too :jumping2:
What foolish pride, the snow globe only proves that flatearthers believe MAN can improve on God's design. Isn't that the theme of Vatican II also the worship of MAN. Who needs God when mankind can do it better thinking.God created the flat earth; We are not improving on anything God created. It is you who need to get down on your knees and respect the whole of God's creation.
God created the flat earth;.
We are not improving on anything God created..
It is you who need to get down on your knees and respect the whole of God's creation..
Perhaps we could stop calling it 'flat' earth and just say 'snow globe' earth instead. That way, those who are still having trouble can understand better, and in simpler terms what we are saying about the shape of the earth..
Plus, they get to keep the word Globe too :jumping2:
Nonetheless, the moon is right there for all to see every day, proclaiming with an infallible voice "The Earth Is Spherical" and flat-earthers hate that.
:jester:.
Too funny, Neal! Maybe you make a Gary Larson type of cartoon out of that.
Speaking of Gary Larson cartoons, here's one that shows two flat-earthers on a little island in plain view. But they're not getting noticed.
:jester:.
Too funny, Neal! Maybe you make a Gary Larson type of cartoon out of that.
I have to disagree. FE is getting noticed. Otherwise you and the others would not have tried to get the subject banned here (I assume that you are one of those who complained about FE being discussed on the forum)..
.Heaven can only be "above" one spot on Earth if it isn't flat, unless Heaven is ... a globe too!
So,,,,,,,,,,,,,, are you asking me, or are you telling me?
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Because I had thought YOU were one of the ones who complained since you seemed so uncomfortable with the discussion.
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BTW what does this have to do with the physical location of heaven?
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.The word apocalypse come from the Greek, apokalupsis, which means: "revelation, to reveal, the unveiling, the uncovering."
Don't you mean the Apocalypse of Saint John?
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Oh, sorry, right, I forgot that you're Protestant.
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The point is the word Apocalypse is what the Catholic Bible uses and the word Revelation is what the Protestant bible uses.You people are so idiotic it is painful.
You, however, would miss the point if you sat on it.
Douay-Rheims Bible + Challoner Notes
< previous (http://drbo.org/chapter/72001.htm) The Apocalypse Of Saint John (Revelation) next > < previous Chapter 1 next (http://drbo.org/chapter/73002.htm) >
01 02 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73002.htm) 03 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73003.htm) 04 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73004.htm) 05 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73005.htm) 06 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73006.htm) 07 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73007.htm) 08 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73008.htm) 09 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73009.htm) 10 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73010.htm) 11 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73011.htm) 12 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73012.htm) 13 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73013.htm) 14 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73014.htm) 15 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73015.htm) 16 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73016.htm) 17 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73017.htm) 18 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73018.htm) 19 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73019.htm) 20 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73020.htm) 21 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73021.htm) 22 (http://drbo.org/chapter/73022.htm)
St. John is ordered to write to the seven churches in Asia. The manner of Christ's appearing to him. [1] (http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=73&ch=1&l=1-#x) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to make known to his servants the things which must shortly come to pass: and signified, sending by his angel to his servant John, [2] (http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=73&ch=1&l=2-#x) Who hath given testimony to the word of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ, what things soever he hath seen.
Heaven can only be "above" one spot on Earth if it isn't flat, unless Heaven is ... a globe too!The Flat Earthers have said Jerusalem is the centre of the world, so by their own charts of the dome, etc. Heaven has to be strait up from the middle of the city of Jerusalem. At least, that is the conclusion I come to.
"Eureka!"
You people are so idiotic it is painful.I sincerely pity you... I believe you show the symptoms of being a victim of The Dunning-Kruger Effect.
The Flat Earthers have said Jerusalem is the centre of the world, so by their own charts of the dome, etc. Heaven has to be strait up from the middle of the city of Jerusalem. At least, that is the conclusion I come to.On the gleason map it is not the center of the world. But it depends how far the dome expands out to.
I sincerely pity you... I believe you show the symptoms of being a victim of The Dunning-Kruger Effect.Have you actually taken the time to study the issue at all?
You people are so idiotic it is painful.1. Who made it "official"?
Here is the OFFICIAL site of the 1899 Douay-Rheims Bible.
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READ IT AND WEEP:
"Apocalypse/Revelation".
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You're as wrong about the Bible as you are the flat earth. In fact, it looks to me like you don't even bother to actually read the Bible, since you don't believe what it says or believe the titles of its Books.
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http://drbo.org/chapter/73001.htm
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YOU would not recognize the Truth if Jesus Himself slapped you in the face with the Book of REVELATION.
1. Who made it "official"?
1. What office of the Church is this of?
2. What words are in the DR? That's pretty "official" of itself, no? (here, let me help you with that D-R NT Canon (https://archive.org/details/1582DouaiRheimsDouayRheimsFirstEdition3Of31582NewTestament))
3. What is in the Vulgate? Oh hey lookit, for just one... Vulgate/English APOCALYPSIS (https://archive.org/stream/newetestamentbot00cove#page/n657/mode/2up)
The Flat Earthers have said Jerusalem is the centre of the world, so by their own charts of the dome, etc. Heaven has to be strait up from the middle of the city of Jerusalem. At least, that is the conclusion I come to.Even in the movie "The Sign" that I posted they refer to Jerusalem as the "umbilicus" of the world.
I sincerely pity you... I believe you show the symptoms of being a victim of The Dunning-Kruger Effect.I do not overestimate my competence.
I do not overestimate my competence....and when I carved a column I had to do some, not too serious, "mental gymnastics" to make it look straight via making it curved.
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When I stand on the beach and look at the sea, or go to a high mountain and look at the horizon, I believe what my eyes perceive: it is flat.
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(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Sailing_Boat_Horizon.JPG)
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Simple.
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You, on the other hand, have to perform some serious mental gymnastics (as a result of your indoctrination from birth) in order to disbelieve own your eyes and come to the conclusion that the earth is a ball.
The Apocalypse means the unveiling. I think we are submerged in Heaven all around us, as it is Reality , without being "in" it until God takes the scales off of our eyes, scrolls up this matrix of the universe, in an instant, like a window shade and unveils True Eternity to us. So it is a place... where we are at now may not be a substantive place... just be a lot of 00000" and 111111's.accidents v substance.
If Jesus says the Kingdom of God is within us is it just a state or a place, too? It must be very close.
It has already been proven to you that the earth is flat..
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Not only does Truth is Transitory keep posting falsehoods like this, he tries to make threads that have nothing to do with flat-earthism into flat-earth threads.
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Not only does Truth is Transitory keep posting falsehoods like this, he tries to make threads that have nothing to do with flat-earthism into flat-earth threads.
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