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Author Topic: The Physical Location of Heaven  (Read 5579 times)

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Offline MyrnaM

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Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2017, 02:44:36 PM »
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  • Not sure how a roof, vault, canopy or pavilion (all described as the Firmament) could fit onto a ball or sphere shape  :confused:
    You mean like this?

    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #16 on: September 19, 2017, 02:55:09 PM »
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  • If you haven't read the book, "End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life," I highly recommend reading this awesome book.
    .

    .
    This book, End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life, written by Fr. Charles Arminjon (1881), "The Fulton Sheen of his time," when St. Therese of Lisieux read it, was the cause of her desire to enter the convent. In her book Story of a Soul, St. Therese goes on and on about this book, but even so, most readers of her Story don't recognize that she is commenting on the book. After her time, End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life went into obscurity for 100 years, being unavailable to English readers since it was only in French and was not in publication. 
    .
    The Little Flower first read it at age 14, and continued reading it for the next 10 years, which were all the years of the rest of her life. She had memorized the Imitation of Christ and knew it by heart.
    .
    Only in the past few years has it become available to English readers since it has only now been translated from French to English. In 1987 the translator Susan Conroy, first started searching for the French book, it took her 7 years to find it (1994), and finally found only ONE COPY, owned by a Carmelite priest in California (whom she names), Fr. Donald Kinney.
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    Makes Death, Judgment, Heaven and Hell real, present and unavoidable. For example, atheists might choose not to think about them but that doesn't make them go away.
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    You shouldn't wait until residing in a "retirement village" before you read it! But if you're already in one, you're almost too late -- Do you have another 10 years like the Little Flower did?
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #17 on: September 19, 2017, 03:17:31 PM »
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  • So what does modern science say today..

    The Big Bang Professors over at NASA say that 'Beyond our own galaxy lies a vast expanse of galaxies. The deeper we see into space, the more galaxies we discover. There are billions of galaxies, the most distant of which are so far away that the light arriving from them on Earth today set out from the galaxies billions of years ago. So we see them not as they are today, but as they looked long before there was any life on Earth. '


    Sorry but as a Catholic, I don't buy it.

    After reading Scripture, and taking it LITERALLY, I know that Heaven is PHYSICALLY located above my head,
    beyond the sky and on the other side of The Firmament.
    I know for a fact that modern day atheist scientists over at NASA, and others, are purposefully LYING to us about 'endless space' and 'the ever expanding universe' and all with the goal of separating Man in relation with his Creator.
    Because with endless light years between Man and God, there the 'Perfect Deception' can begin to form in men's minds.
    Sinners at ease knowing that 'the space between' gives them plenty of time for their pleasure and fun, and it just keeps getting BIGGER.

    Several years ago I laughed at a science channel program when I heard the narrator say that there are 'universes beyond the universe' (lol) even then I knew what modern science was trying to do..attempting to push my God and His existance further away from me.

    Being a great sinner with much to answer for, it was not so terrifying to think of God's Eyes seeing me from a million light years away on the other side of the zillionth galaxy. Though for me now it is a much different reality when I step out on my deck outside and look straight up and imagine Him looking right back at me from the other side of the sky. No more 'space between'.
    And even on a better note, and following on the same line of thought, it is so much more Beautiful when contemplating The Sacred Heart of Jesus, Mary and The Angels, and my Sainted Friends in Heaven.

    Heaven is a PLACE, and I hope to go there.

    So many good observations above. You are so right to say that..."the atheist scientists over at NASA are purposefully lying to us about 'endless space' and the 'ever expanding universe' and all with the goal of separating Man in relation from his creator."  So true! I agree that they are trying to push God and His existence further away from us. 

    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #18 on: September 19, 2017, 03:19:32 PM »
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  • Great link thanks!
    I found this located there at newadvent which also confirms that The Firmament has been thought to be as a 'roof'.
    Some derive heaven from the root ham, "to cover" (cf. the Gothic ham-ôn and the German Hem-d). According to this derivation heaven would be conceived as the roof of the world. Others trace a connection between himin (heaven) and home; according to this view, which seems to be the more probable, heaven would be the abode of the Godhead. The Latin coelum (koilon, a vault) is derived by many from the root of celare "to cover, to conceal" (coelum, "ceiling" "roof of the world"). Others, however think it is connected with the Germanic himin. The Greek ouranos is probably derived from the root var, which also connotes the idea of covering. The Hebrew name for heaven is thought to be derived from a word meaning "on high"; accordingly, heaven would designate the upper region of the world.'



    Not sure how a roof, vault, canopy or pavilion (all described as the Firmament) could fit onto a ball or sphere shape  :confused:
    .
    It is not possible for us to impose our present understanding of reality onto spiritual reality. They are not the same world.
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    When we try to make spiritual things comprehensible to us in a material way we can get into many difficulties. 
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    Some have conceptualized heaven as cherubs (angels?) sitting on billowy clouds plucking harps. Atheists have countered, that sounds pretty boring.
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    Okay then, since that sounds pretty boring then there's no point in believing in any kind of religion, ergo, atheism. 
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    They use that for an excuse but ironically in the end, it doesn't excuse them.
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    Our Lord ascended into heaven and Our Lady was assumed body and soul into heaven, and that has always meant "up" to Catholics.
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    Wherever you are in the world, "up" is away from earth. So what about for astronauts, which way is "up" for them? What if someone is on another planet, could "up" be in the direction of earth, then? 
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    What if the sun is directly overhead -- is "up" towards the sun? Is the sun heaven then, or is it never heaven unless it is overhead, then heaven changes from place to place? I thought heaven never changes. See the problems?
    .
    We are given to know that heaven is "up," and that we will each have a resurrected body in heaven, the same body we now have on earth, just as Our Lord had the same body when He appeared to his disciples after His resurrection. It was the same body but a glorified body. So it is given for us to know that we will have the same body but it will have no defects, and it will be a perfect body, and it will not be subject to injury, and it will be able to pass through obstacles. So we can suppose that contact sports won't be a main attraction anymore in heaven, even for sports fans. But some sports fans don't want any part of heaven if there's no sports there. That's all they find interesting here on earth.
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    See the difficulty?
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    How do we make sense of a world where all the rules are changed, and the natural "laws" we are so familiar with no longer apply?
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    How did Our Lord in His glorified body eat normal food in the presence of his friends when the material of the door did not keep Him from passing right through it?
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    Some things, we have to just step away from them, and realize they're not for us to know -- yet.
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    There are mysteries in the Catholic faith, and that has to be okay, that we can't have all the answers here and now.
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    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline St Ignatius

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #19 on: September 19, 2017, 03:28:35 PM »
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  • 1 Corinthians 2

    9 But, as it is written: That eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath it entered into the heart of man, what things God hath prepared for them that love him.

    10 But to us God hath revealed them, by this Spirit. For the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, but the spirit of a man that is in him? So the things also that are of God no man knoweth, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received not the spirit of this world, but the Spirit that is of God; that we may know the things that are given us from God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the learned words of human wisdom; but in the doctrine of the Spirit, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

    14 But the sensual man perceiveth not these things that are of the Spirit of God; for it is foolishness to him, and he cannot understand, because it is spiritually examined. 15 But the spiritual man judgeth all things; and he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that we may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.


    Offline Carissima

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #20 on: September 19, 2017, 06:29:14 PM »
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  • You mean like this?

    You're missing some coverage on your ball there




    Offline Carissima

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #21 on: September 19, 2017, 06:36:27 PM »
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  • You're missing some coverage on your ball there




    Aussies need some vault too

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #22 on: September 19, 2017, 07:11:40 PM »
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  • Aussies need some vault too
    See there if you figured it out, I feel confident God can also figure it out! 
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/


    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #23 on: September 19, 2017, 07:25:00 PM »
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  • Well if newadvent even says the word 'roof' and 'upper region', we are certainly left wondering about the people in Australia who are upside down to it.
    Exactly.
    But, of course a vault or roof or tent or dome makes perfect sense above a flat plane with four pillars. It's a tabernacle.  ;)

    Offline cassini

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #24 on: September 20, 2017, 12:35:09 PM »
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  • Well if newadvent even says the word 'roof' and 'upper region', we are certainly left wondering about the people in Australia who are upside down to it.

    Again and again we witness these flat-earthers bring God's Creation down to a human level. To them only a flat-Earth has an up and a down. If monkeys could talk I suspect that is what they would also say for the truth of creation is beyond human comprehension. Flat-earthism would deny God's ability to create the earth as a globe just like the moon and all the planets man can see. Flat-earthism denies the ongoing miracle of gravity, that which has mankind on every part of our global earth to have the sky above and the ground below.

    The OP talks about the size of the universe and the number of stars in it. God created that many (as numerous as the grains of sand on Earth) to show mankind they cannot comprehend his power. There is no physical limit to what God can create, so do not even try to put a limit on the universe.
    As for those billions of light years for some starlight to get to us, well ponder on the fact that God created Adam with starlight visible to him. In other words it did not take starlight time to reach us. In more words, MANKIND sees the visable universe in OUR TIME. Einstein's time is for atheists and monkeys, those who put a limit of God's omnipotence, try to bring Him down to our level.

    Heaven has to be a place for physical mankind to reside, just as Hell is a place for the same reason. Again do not try to tell God he could not have created His Heaven outside the physical universe as we know it from all sides of the global Earth.

    Offline St Ignatius

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #25 on: September 20, 2017, 12:40:50 PM »
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  • Again and again we witness these flat-earthers bring God's Creation down to a human level. To them only a flat-Earth has an up and a down. If monkeys could talk I suspect that is what they would also say for the truth of creation is beyond human comprehension. Flat-earthism would deny God's ability to create the earth as a globe just like the moon and all the planets man can see. Flat-earthism denies the ongoing miracle of gravity, that which has mankind on every part of our global earth to have the sky above and the ground below.

    The OP talks about the size of the universe and the number of stars in it. God created that many (as numerous as the grains of sand on Earth) to show mankind they cannot comprehend his power. There is no physical limit to what God can create, so do not even try to put a limit on the universe.
    As for those billions of light years for some starlight to get to us, well ponder on the fact that God created Adam with starlight visible to him. In other words it did not take starlight time to reach us. In more words, MANKIND sees the visable universe in OUR TIME. Einstein's time is for atheists and monkeys, those who put a limit of God's omnipotence, try to bring Him down to our level.

    Heaven has to be a place for physical mankind to reside, just as Hell is a place for the same reason. Again do not try to tell God he could not have created His Heaven outside the physical universe as we know it from all sides of the global Earth.
    :applause:


    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #26 on: September 20, 2017, 12:44:03 PM »
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  • Again and again we witness these flat-earthers bring God's Creation down to a human level. To them only a flat-Earth has an up and a down. If monkeys could talk I suspect that is what they would also say for the truth of creation is beyond human comprehension. Flat-earthism would deny God's ability to create the earth as a globe just like the moon and all the planets man can see. Flat-earthism denies the ongoing miracle of gravity, that which has mankind on every part of our global earth to have the sky above and the ground below.

    The OP talks about the size of the universe and the number of stars in it. God created that many (as numerous as the grains of sand on Earth) to show mankind they cannot comprehend his power. There is no physical limit to what God can create, so do not even try to put a limit on the universe.
    As for those billions of light years for some starlight to get to us, well ponder on the fact that God created Adam with starlight visible to him. In other words it did not take starlight time to reach us. In more words, MANKIND sees the visable universe in OUR TIME. Einstein's time is for atheists and monkeys, those who put a limit of God's omnipotence, try to bring Him down to our level.

    Heaven has to be a place for physical mankind to reside, just as Hell is a place for the same reason. Again do not try to tell God he could not have created His Heaven outside the physical universe as we know it from all sides of the global Earth.
    Thank you for the sanity
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline Carissima

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #27 on: September 20, 2017, 01:21:12 PM »
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  • Those who are in love with the religion of Modern Science believe that even with the use of human reason, Man cannot understand God's Creation in a plain and simple manner. 

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #28 on: September 20, 2017, 01:24:26 PM »
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  • re: "Guile", via newadvent.org

    "'Modern' Science... " :confused:
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #29 on: September 20, 2017, 01:33:31 PM »
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  • Quote
    Those who are in love with the religion
     
    defined as...?

    of Modern Science believe that even with the use of human reason, Man cannot understand God's Creation in a plain and simple manner.

    Isn't understanding "... creation in a plain and simple manner..." one way of saying what Science, "modern" or otherwise, is?

    Fuzzy terms make for hairy thinking.
    "Lord, have mercy".