Author Topic: The Physical Location of Heaven  (Read 3068 times)

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Offline Carissima

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The Physical Location of Heaven
« on: September 18, 2017, 08:07:04 PM »
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  • Hi, longtime reader of CI, new to posting. 
    Traditional Catholic to my core, love Holy Mother Church and accept all of Her Teachings without reserve, and by God's grace working to resist and fight any and all modern errors and heresies. 

    So seeing all this flat earth talk I wanted to share my thoughts on the subject. 

    In regards to how the Firmament is placed above us, and after that the universe with endless galaxies beyond it, I have asked myself, where is Heaven located PHYSICALLY? 

    Is it in some other dimension entirely?

    Perhaps it's only a 'spiritual place' and not physical at all?

    I am no theologian but being Catholic and hoping to go there someday, I'd like to have a visual to ponder during meditation. 

    So what does modern science say today..

    The Big Bang Professors over at NASA say that 'Beyond our own galaxy lies a vast expanse of galaxies. The deeper we see into space, the more galaxies we discover. There are billions of galaxies, the most distant of which are so far away that the light arriving from them on Earth today set out from the galaxies billions of years ago. So we see them not as they are today, but as they looked long before there was any life on Earth. '


    Sorry but as a Catholic, I don't buy it. 

    After reading Scripture, and taking it LITERALLY, I know that Heaven is PHYSICALLY located above my head, 
    beyond the sky and on the other side of The Firmament. 
    I know for a fact that modern day atheist scientists over at NASA, and others, are purposefully LYING to us about 'endless space' and 'the ever expanding universe' and all with the goal of separating Man in relation with his Creator. 
    Because with endless light years between Man and God, there the 'Perfect Deception' can begin to form in men's minds. 
    Sinners at ease knowing that 'the space between' gives them plenty of time for their pleasure and fun, and it just keeps getting BIGGER. 

    Several years ago I laughed at a science channel program when I heard the narrator say that there are 'universes beyond the universe' (lol) even then I knew what modern science was trying to do..attempting to push my God and His existance further away from me. 

    Being a great sinner with much to answer for, it was not so terrifying to think of God's Eyes seeing me from a million light years away on the other side of the zillionth galaxy. Though for me now it is a much different reality when I step out on my deck outside and look straight up and imagine Him looking right back at me from the other side of the sky. No more 'space between'. 
    And even on a better note, and following on the same line of thought, it is so much more Beautiful when contemplating The Sacred Heart of Jesus, Mary and The Angels, and my Sainted Friends in Heaven. 

    Heaven is a PLACE, and I hope to go there. 

    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #1 on: September 18, 2017, 08:18:26 PM »
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  • Hi, longtime reader of CI, new to posting.
    Traditional Catholic to my core, love Holy Mother Church and accept all of Her Teachings without reserve, and by God's grace working to resist and fight any and all modern errors and heresies.

    So seeing all this flat earth talk I wanted to share my thoughts on the subject.

    In regards to how the Firmament is placed above us, and after that the universe with endless galaxies beyond it, I have asked myself, where is Heaven located PHYSICALLY?

    Is it in some other dimension entirely?

    Perhaps it's only a 'spiritual place' and not physical at all?

    I am no theologian but being Catholic and hoping to go there someday, I'd like to have a visual to ponder during meditation.

    So what does modern science say today..

    The Big Bang Professors over at NASA say that 'Beyond our own galaxy lies a vast expanse of galaxies. The deeper we see into space, the more galaxies we discover. There are billions of galaxies, the most distant of which are so far away that the light arriving from them on Earth today set out from the galaxies billions of years ago. So we see them not as they are today, but as they looked long before there was any life on Earth. '


    Sorry but as a Catholic, I don't buy it.

    After reading Scripture, and taking it LITERALLY, I know that Heaven is PHYSICALLY located above my head,
    beyond the sky and on the other side of The Firmament.
    I know for a fact that modern day atheist scientists over at NASA, and others, are purposefully LYING to us about 'endless space' and 'the ever expanding universe' and all with the goal of separating Man in relation with his Creator.
    Because with endless light years between Man and God, there the 'Perfect Deception' can begin to form in men's minds.
    Sinners at ease knowing that 'the space between' gives them plenty of time for their pleasure and fun, and it just keeps getting BIGGER.

    Several years ago I laughed at a science channel program when I heard the narrator say that there are 'universes beyond the universe' (lol) even then I knew what modern science was trying to do..attempting to push my God and His existance further away from me.

    Being a great sinner with much to answer for, it was not so terrifying to think of God's Eyes seeing me from a million light years away on the other side of the zillionth galaxy. Though for me now it is a much different reality when I step out on my deck outside and look straight up and imagine Him looking right back at me from the other side of the sky. No more 'space between'.
    And even on a better note, and following on the same line of thought, it is so much more Beautiful when contemplating The Sacred Heart of Jesus, Mary and The Angels, and my Sainted Friends in Heaven.

    Heaven is a PLACE, and I hope to go there.
    If you haven't read the book "End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life", I highly recommend reading this awesome book.
    "I Think it is Time Cathinfo Has a Public Profession of Belief." "Thank you for publicly affirming the necessity of believing, without innovations, all Infallibly Defined Dogmas of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church."


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #2 on: September 18, 2017, 09:29:31 PM »
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  • " Reply to Objection 1. The earth stands in relation to the heaven as the centre of a circle to its circumference. But as one center may have many circumferences, so, though there is but one earth, there may be many heavens"

    Summa Theologiae Q:68 Art. iv

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07170a.htm#I
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Student of Qi

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #3 on: September 19, 2017, 12:38:09 AM »
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  • Where is Heaven located PHYSICALLY?

    [...]

    Perhaps it's only a 'spiritual place' and not physical at all?
     
    No, Heaven is truly a physical place. Think about it; The Blessed Virgen Mary was assumed into Heaven body and soul; Jesus Christ ascended into Heaven, body and soul. Also, at the Last Supper Jesus told His Appstles that He "Would not tast of the fruit of the vine until reunited with you all in Heaven," meaning He would not drink any WINE until they were all reunited in Heaven. There can't be grapes, grape juice, or wine in Heaven unless it is a physical place.
       Anyhow, that is a logical conclusion if taking the Holy Bible literally. The question I have is "How much can you really read this in a litteral manner?" Because I seem to recall somewhere in the New Testamen that it was said "Everything is said in metafores/parables"? Now, if you take that litteraly...
    Many people say "For the Honor and Glory of God!" but, what they should say is "For the Love, Glory and Honor of God". - Fr. Paul of Moll

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #4 on: September 19, 2017, 12:48:40 AM »
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  • Actually, the verse reads:

    Matt 26 [29] And I say to you, I will not drink from henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I shall drink it with you new in the kingdom of my Father. 

    Would that make a difference?


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #5 on: September 19, 2017, 01:32:18 AM »
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  • The question I have is "How much can you really read this in a litteral manner?" Because I seem to recall somewhere in the New Testamen that it was said "Everything is said in metafores/parables"? Now, if you take that litteraly...
    No, not everything is said in metaphors and parables. We read in Matthew 13:

    [9] He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. [10] And his disciples came and said to him: Why speakest thou to them  (the crowds) in parables?
    [11] Who answered and said to them: Because to you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven: but to them it is not given. [12] For he that hath, to him shall be given, and he shall abound: but he that hath not, from him shall be taken away that also which he hath. [13] Therefore do I speak to them in parables: because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. [14] And the prophecy of Isaias is fulfilled in them, who saith: By hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand: and seeing you shall see, and shall not perceive. [15] For the heart of this people is grown gross, and with their ears they have been dull of hearing, and their eyes they have shut: lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
    [16] But blessed are your eyes, because they see, and your ears, because they hear.[17] For, amen, I say to you, many prophets and just men have desired to see the things that you see, and have not seen them, and to hear the things that you hear and have not heard them.

    How blessed are we to whom it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven! Who can fathom it?



    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #6 on: September 19, 2017, 04:23:18 AM »
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  • Welcome Carissima,

    Yes the teaching of the Church is that it is a physical place. As a flat earther I believe it to be above the firmament.

    Glober earthers would say that it is simply beyond the edge of the universe, which is a huge number of miles away, and which, don't forget keeps moving all the time, and the estimates are always changing also.

    I am totally open to correction here but I imagine that space and distances, especially in relation to our physical creation are not the same as we imagine it. Heaven is infinite in time, and probably in space. Hell is a physical place also, as is purgatory, so where do they square in relation to the physical place of heaven? I don't know the answer.

    But I certainly can say that in relation to the physical creation we live in, I agree with you that it is above us.
    Eclipses neither prove nor disprove the flat earth.

    "As for whether or not I work for NASA, I'm sorry, but I fail to understand what that could possibly have to do with anything" Neil Obstat, 08-03-2017

    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #7 on: September 19, 2017, 08:00:23 AM »
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  • I was taught in catechism that heaven and hell is both a PLACE and a STATE.

    Meaning you are in a PHYSICAL PLACE and a STATE OF BEING.

    In Heaven, the place is above the Firmament and you are in a state of union with God, enjoying the Beatific Vision.

    In Hell, the place is below the earth and you are in a state of separation from God, the worst punishment of hell.

    At the Second Coming of Our Lord the earth is going to be remade with fire. Everything will be destroyed and burned up, even the rocks themselves, in order to purify the (flat) earth from sin. Then the City of God, the Kingdom of Heaven will descend and rest upon the earth.



    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #8 on: September 19, 2017, 09:57:37 AM »
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  • Sorry but as a Catholic, I don't buy it.

    After reading Scripture, and taking it LITERALLY, I know that Heaven is PHYSICALLY located above my head,
    beyond the sky and on the other side of The Firmament.
    I know for a fact that modern day atheist scientists over at NASA, and others, are purposefully LYING to us about 'endless space' and 'the ever expanding universe' and all with the goal of separating Man in relation with his Creator.
    Because with endless light years between Man and God, there the 'Perfect Deception' can begin to form in men's minds.
    Sinners at ease knowing that 'the space between' gives them plenty of time for their pleasure and fun, and it just keeps getting BIGGER.

    Several years ago I laughed at a science channel program when I heard the narrator say that there are 'universes beyond the universe' (lol) even then I knew what modern science was trying to do..attempting to push my God and His existance further away from me.

    Being a great sinner with much to answer for, it was not so terrifying to think of God's Eyes seeing me from a million light years away on the other side of the zillionth galaxy. Though for me now it is a much different reality when I step out on my deck outside and look straight up and imagine Him looking right back at me from the other side of the sky. No more 'space between'.
    And even on a better note, and following on the same line of thought, it is so much more Beautiful when contemplating The Sacred Heart of Jesus, Mary and The Angels, and my Sainted Friends in Heaven.

    Heaven is a PLACE, and I hope to go there.
    I believe Heaven is a city with many mansions, John 14;2.  Therefore a place!

    Right now at this present time, you should not fear anyone can push your God and His existence further away from you because He is present on the True altars in our chapels/churches where the True Mass is offered.  In the Blessed Sacrament, His True Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity are there waiting for you and I and everyone. 
     
    At Fatima, Our Lady opened up the earth and showed the children a myriad of souls falling into Hell, like a blizzard they described, many Saints have said Hell is the center of earth.

    Also at Fatima, the children saw Blessed Mother coming down from the sky above, and she told them she was from Heaven, therefore Heaven must be above high, but might be another dimension.      

    Offline Carissima

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #9 on: September 19, 2017, 01:39:04 PM »
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  • If you haven't read the book "End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life", I highly recommend reading this awesome book.
    I own this book and have yet to read it..perhaps I should bump it up the list. My library is just too big for the hours I have left to live to read them all lol  :D

    Offline Carissima

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #10 on: September 19, 2017, 01:51:13 PM »
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  • " Reply to Objection 1. The earth stands in relation to the heaven as the centre of a circle to its circumference. But as one center may have many circumferences, so, though there is but one earth, there may be many heavens"

    Summa Theologiae Q:68 Art. iv

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07170a.htm#I
    Great link thanks! 
    I found this located there at newadvent which also confirms that The Firmament has been thought to be as a 'roof'. 
     Some derive heaven from the root ham, "to cover" (cf. the Gothic ham-ôn and the German Hem-d). According to this derivation heaven would be conceived as the roof of the world. Others trace a connection between himin (heaven) and home; according to this view, which seems to be the more probable, heaven would be the abode of the Godhead. The Latin coelum (koilon, a vault) is derived by many from the root of celare "to cover, to conceal" (coelum, "ceiling" "roof of the world"). Others, however think it is connected with the Germanic himin. The Greek ouranos is probably derived from the root var, which also connotes the idea of covering. The Hebrew name for heaven is thought to be derived from a word meaning "on high"; accordingly, heaven would designate the upper region of the world.'



    Not sure how a roof, vault, canopy or pavilion (all described as the Firmament) could fit onto a ball or sphere shape  :confused:



    Offline Carissima

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #11 on: September 19, 2017, 02:00:26 PM »
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  • I am totally open to correction here but I imagine that space and distances, especially in relation to our physical creation are not the same as we imagine it. Heaven is infinite in time, and probably in space. Hell is a physical place also, as is purgatory, so where do they square in relation to the physical place of heaven? I don't know the answer.

    But I certainly can say that in relation to the physical creation we live in, I agree with you that it is above us.
    Well if newadvent even says the word 'roof' and 'upper region', we are certainly left wondering about the people in Australia who are upside down to it. 

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #12 on: September 19, 2017, 02:06:35 PM »
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  • Well if newadvent even says the word 'roof' and 'upper region', we are certainly left wondering about the people in Australia who are upside down to it.
    .
    When the people of Australia look upwards into the heavens they see the Southern Cross in the upper region.
    .
    How can that be bad? 
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #13 on: September 19, 2017, 02:26:13 PM »
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  • Great link thanks!
    I found this located there at newadvent which also confirms that The Firmament has been thought to be as a 'roof'.
    Some derive heaven from the root ham, "to cover" (cf. the Gothic ham-ôn and the German Hem-d). According to this derivation heaven would be conceived as the roof of the world. Others trace a connection between himin (heaven) and home; according to this view, which seems to be the more probable, heaven would be the abode of the Godhead. The Latin coelum (koilon, a vault) is derived by many from the root of celare "to cover, to conceal" (coelum, "ceiling" "roof of the world"). Others, however think it is connected with the Germanic himin. The Greek ouranos is probably derived from the root var, which also connotes the idea of covering. The Hebrew name for heaven is thought to be derived from a word meaning "on high"; accordingly, heaven would designate the upper region of the world.'



    Not sure how a roof, vault, canopy or pavilion (all described as the Firmament) could fit onto a ball or sphere shape  :confused:
    Not sure exactly how an absolutely simple God can sit at the right hand of God, or how those who have seen Christ have seen the Father, and yet none have seen God and lived.

    (s.a., e.g., "The Language of Accommodation.")
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Meg

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    Re: The Physical Location of Heaven
    « Reply #14 on: September 19, 2017, 02:35:03 PM »
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  • Not sure exactly how an absolutely simple God can sit at the right hand of God, or how those who have seen Christ have seen the Father, and yet none have seen God and lived.

    (s.a., e.g., "The Language of Accommodation.")

    Is there an actual point that you're trying to make? Because if there is, it isn't obvious (to me, anyway).

     

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