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Author Topic: The Fruits of the Flat Earth Position  (Read 15287 times)

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Offline Meg

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Re: "Farthest"/Re: The Fruits of the Flat Earth Position
« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2017, 05:00:33 PM »
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    Try reading the notes written by commentators, which give explanation and exegesis for the scripture, some of which were written by Bishop Richard Challoner. If you have an argument with what they're saying, you might do well to re-think your position. Ask yourself for example, does Bishop Challoner say anything whatsoever that gives you the impression that he values the flat-earth model as anything better than utter myth?
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    I have read the notes, Neil. And not only those by Challoner, but by St. Thomas as well. St. Thomas believed as Bishop Challoner did. Yet the Church allows us to debate this sort of thing, since there hasn't been definitive teaching on it. Other theologians and doctors believed in a flat earth. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: The Fruits of the Flat Earth Position
    « Reply #46 on: August 22, 2017, 05:42:30 PM »
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  • How can it be a throwback mentality when there were Church Fathers who believed in a flat earth? Unless you mean to say that this form of Tradition is outdated. We simply are going back to an older tradition from before the Protestants, atheists and pagans began to rule the sciences and society in general.  

    I understand that you are embarrassed by us. As if those who are looking into tradition would want nothing to do with tradition because some trads believe in a flat earth. Well, we are a distinct minority. Most trads believe as you do. And any prospective trads will see that there are divergent opinions regarding this issue, and they can decide for themselves. Hopefully, they will see that our side is more mature and charitable (well, for the most part).
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    There was no "older tradition from before the Protestants" that held the earth was "flat." You're fantasizing, again.
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    Perhaps you don't intend to do so, but all you can possibly accomplish is to give Traditional Catholicism a bad reputation.
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    That is the bad fruit of flat-earthism, in the real world.
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    Of course, it will be an erroneously bad reputation, because Catholics have not been under this mythical flat-earthism as you claim they have been.  There has been no definitive teaching of the Church regarding the shape of the earth, because that is not what the Church teaches.  Things that are observable with the 5 senses are not the stuff of Church definition.  There never has been any dogmatic definition of things that we can test with our own observation today, because that is not what definition is for. So you're barking up the wrong tree.
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    You're barking up the wrong tree, and all you can ever expect to accomplish is DAMAGE. I.e., bad fruit. 
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    So long as you keep it up, you will be doing this with the warning, right here, that you are causing damage. Then you will be causing damage willfully, and you will be held responsible for that deliberate act of subterfuge. Fair warning.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: "Farthest"/Re: The Fruits of the Flat Earth Position
    « Reply #47 on: August 22, 2017, 05:50:32 PM »
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  • I have read the notes, Neil. And not only those by Challoner, but by St. Thomas as well. St. Thomas believed as Bishop Challoner did. Yet the Church allows us to debate this sort of thing, since there hasn't been definitive teaching on it. Other theologians and doctors believed in a flat earth.
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    There is nothing to "debate."
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    All you have to do is observe the phases of the moon from various points on the earth and compare them.
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    The only way to see what we see every day all over the world is if we are observing it from the surface of a sphere.
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    The facts are the facts and they cannot be refuted.
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    If you persist in claiming the facts are in error or whatever, then you are persisting in your error.
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    By willfully persisting in your error you make yourself culpable and responsible for the damage that you do to the Church's reputation. So I hope you're prepared for the guilt you're heaping on your own heads.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: "Farthest"/Re: The Fruits of the Flat Earth Position
    « Reply #48 on: August 22, 2017, 05:58:25 PM »
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  • If you persist in claiming the facts are in error or whatever, then you are persisting in your error.
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    By willfully persisting in your error you make yourself culpable and responsible for the damage that you do to the Church's reputation. So I hope you're prepared for the guilt you're heaping on your own heads.
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    If you want to believe that it's an error, that's your choice.

    I'm not surprised that you believe we are guilty of damaging the Church's reputation. After all, you have said before that it can be a mortal sin to disagree with your view. Which is course ridiculous.

    There have been saintly Catholic doctors and theologians who believed in a flat earth. Are they guilty of damaging the Church?

    I have noticed that you do not ever post anything about geocentrism, even though you have claimed that you are a geocentrist. Is this because you are embarrassed by the geocentric view?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: "Farthest"/Re: The Fruits of the Flat Earth Position
    « Reply #49 on: August 22, 2017, 09:21:25 PM »
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  • I have read the notes, Neil. And not only those by Challoner, but by St. Thomas as well. St. Thomas believed as Bishop Challoner did. Yet the Church allows us to debate this sort of thing, since there hasn't been definitive teaching on it. Other theologians and doctors believed in a flat earth.
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    So you've read the notes, have you?
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    How about this note (found in Genesis):
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    Quote
    CHAP. 1.  Ver. 6.  A firmament.  By this name is here understood the whole space between the earth, and the highest stars. The lower part of which divideth the waters that are upon the earth, from those that are above in the clouds.
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    So the Church teaches that the firmament is to be understood as the whole space between the earth, and the highest stars. Furthermore, the lower part of the firmament divideth the waters that are upon the earth, from those that are above in the clouds.
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    This is to be CONTRASTED with your comment and erroneous opinion that the waters in the clouds cannot be thought of as being divided by the firmament, and that there must be water in a liquid form somewhere ABOVE the clouds in order for your flat-earth model to work. (Otherwise known as subjectivism, which is objectively erroneous.)
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    So you say you've read the notes, but you in fact have not read the notes. I rest my case.
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    It's a good thing the Church doesn't recognize reverse thinking like yours otherwise we'd be in a lot worse shape than we already are, in this crisis.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: The Fruits of the Flat Earth Position
    « Reply #50 on: August 22, 2017, 09:22:37 PM »
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    Flat-earthers have a lot in common with Mohammedans (aka Moslems).
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: The Fruits of the Flat Earth Position
    « Reply #51 on: August 22, 2017, 09:26:19 PM »
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  • Women being sucked in to the flat earth position!!

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    Offline St Ignatius

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    Re: The Fruits of the Flat Earth Position
    « Reply #52 on: August 22, 2017, 09:35:08 PM »
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  • Has anybody been able to explain the rather bizarre path of this eclipse across the U.S.? Doesn't seem to follow any pattern of any F.E. model that has been presented here on this forum...



    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: The Fruits of the Flat Earth Position
    « Reply #53 on: August 22, 2017, 09:42:42 PM »
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  • .
    Has anybody been able to explain the rather bizarre path of this eclipse across the U.S.?
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    Doesn't seem to follow any pattern of any F.E. model that has been presented here on this forum...


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    Flat-earthers think that's all part of the great conspiracy.
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    The map is all fabricated and orchestrated by NASA in order to deceive the gullible.
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    They didn't draw the map accurately.
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    They got all their times wrong, since what they show can't be made to fit the flat-earthism model.
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    The size of the moon's shadow (or whatever it is because flat-earthers don't know what causes an eclipse) is a big LIE.
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    The moon can't be that size because the sun is obviously bigger and they're both the same size.
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    The reason all the collected data about this so-called eclipse (which really did not take place at all!) is so contradictory to the flat-earth model is most definitely the bad fruit of big money interests that have funded this whole pack of lies from the beginning (whenever that was!) in order to discredit the sacred cow doctrine of flat-earthism.
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    Any more questions?
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    Maybe I forgot to include an answer or two. I'm sure I'll be corrected!  HAHAHAHAHA
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    Offline St Ignatius

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    Re: The Fruits of the Flat Earth Position
    « Reply #54 on: August 22, 2017, 09:52:02 PM »
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  • Any more questions?
    Nope... think that answers my question. Thanks Neil.  8)

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: The Fruits of the Flat Earth Position
    « Reply #55 on: August 22, 2017, 09:58:45 PM »
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  • Nope... think that answers my question. Thanks Neil.  8)
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    You're welcome. Anytime -- that I'm here, that is!!
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    Offline OHCA

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    Re: The Fruits of the Flat Earth Position
    « Reply #56 on: August 22, 2017, 10:26:43 PM »
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    A most conspicuous bad fruit of flat-earthism is that those outside the Church look at flat-earthers who represent themselves as being extra specially faithful to traditional Church teaching (which is not true) and they respond by saying these guys are a bunch of cretins. Why would they want anything to do with traditional Catholicism if they would have to associate with a throwback mentality?
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    If the Catholic faith is going to have any appeal to outsiders it had best not adopt a patently false cosmology like flat-earthism.
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    It is not by advocating fables and errors that can be shown erroneous by simple observation that we will ever be able to spread the true Faith.
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    I am quite suspicious that Happenby a bunch of the 15-post flat-earthers are plants to make Catholics and "conspiracy theorists" look like a bunch of kooks.  They take a few truths--NASA can't be trusted; man didn't go to the moon; geocentrism--and make them seem inextricably intwined with the hare-brained notion of flat-earth, proclaimed most ardently by the 10th grade educated, a few puffed-up proud of whom done got that GED, trailer park residents with YouTube smash-hits about alien abductions and describing the tornado that roared through Tin-Can Estates.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: The Fruits of the Flat Earth Position
    « Reply #57 on: August 22, 2017, 10:58:29 PM »
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  • You're becoming a tad bit unhinged, Neil. 

    Time for me to bow out of the thread.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline ManuelChavez

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    Re: The Fruits of the Flat Earth Position
    « Reply #58 on: August 22, 2017, 11:40:30 PM »
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  • Gravity makes no sense.
    I am confused. One of the reasons given for the globe earth being false is that water would not stick to the globe, due to gravity. So if gravity is false, then why would it also be a reason against the globe earth? 

    Offline hismajesty

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    Re: The Fruits of the Flat Earth Position
    « Reply #59 on: August 23, 2017, 04:45:12 AM »
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  • .
    I have already given detailed responses to this nonsense video, previously. If you missed it then you ought to go back and read the earlier posts. I'm not going to repeat myself.
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    The video you post is chock full of errors, shallow nonsense and self-contradiction. It shows one thing and tries to claim that it means the opposite. It's astounding that flat-earthers can be so dogmatically narrow-minded and conspicuously blind. Like the blind leading the blind, they both fall into the pit. So you're a fulfillment of prophesy. Congratulations!!
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    You're a liar!
    the only true thing you say is that gave a a response. But I can respond to the question of "what is your name" with the response "the sky is blue" and not really answer the question.
    You NEVER explained as can be seen from the posts where the missing 500 feet came from even taking into account your adjustments. The threads are full of users reminding you of this.
    So drop the charade, NASA employee!
    "....I am at a loss what to say respecting those who, when they have once erred, consistently persevere in their folly, and defend one vain thing by another" - Church Father Lactentius on the globe earth