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Author Topic: The elect  (Read 517 times)

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Offline AnthonyPadua

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The elect
« on: May 24, 2023, 04:05:44 AM »
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    • To be clear, does the elect refer to everyone who is saved or just those who are saved no matter what?

    I.e are there people saved who aren't classified as 'elect'?
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: The elect
    « Reply #1 on: May 24, 2023, 08:29:06 AM »
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    • All those who are saved are considered the elect.
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    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: The elect
    « Reply #2 on: May 24, 2023, 08:34:44 AM »
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    • Quote from: AnthonyPadua on May 24, 2023, 04:05:44 AM
    To be clear, does the elect refer to everyone who is saved or just those who are saved no matter what?

    If one holds to traditional Catholicism and not conciliarism or protestantism, then there's no such thing as "saved no matter what".
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    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: The elect
    « Reply #3 on: May 24, 2023, 10:00:41 AM »
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    • Quote from: Soubirous on May 24, 2023, 08:34:44 AM
    If one holds to traditional Catholicism and not conciliarism or protestantism, then there's no such thing as "saved no matter what".
    Maybe I didn't word it well. I am under the impression that the elect cannot lose their elect status. I assume God provides them with enough grace to get them into heaven.
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    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: The elect
    « Reply #4 on: May 24, 2023, 10:09:37 AM »
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    • Quote from: AnthonyPadua on May 24, 2023, 10:00:41 AM
    Maybe I didn't word it well. I am under the impression that the elect cannot lose their elect status. I assume God provides them with enough grace to get them into heaven.
    Yes, predestination is dogma but it doesn't exclude free will. You can damn yourself at any point.
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    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: The elect
    « Reply #5 on: May 24, 2023, 11:54:35 AM »
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    • Quote from: AnthonyPadua on May 24, 2023, 10:00:41 AM
    Maybe I didn't word it well. I am under the impression that the elect cannot lose their elect status. I assume God provides them with enough grace to get them into heaven.

    The elect will be saved; they all will receive the grace of final perseverance. I have cited a lot of sources on the subject of predestination, which concerns the elect, e.g., St. Thomas, St. Augustine, the Haydock Bible annotations - on a thread that you might find of interest:

    https://www.cathinfo.com/the-sacred-catholic-liturgy-chant-prayers/god's-salvific-will-to-save-'all-men'-and-the-death-of-unbaptized-infants/msg733125/#msg733125

    Father Garrigou-Lagrange has an excellent book on Predestination (the elect are predestined) simply called Predestination. He has many comments on the issue, as here:

    Quote
    "This predestination by which God directs infallibly certain persons rather than others to eternal life is affirmed by revelation, whatever Pelagians and Semipelagians may say about it . . . This shows that God not only knows beforehand who are the elect, but that He also loved them, chose them in preference to others, and that He keeps them infallibly in His hand, which means that they are protected by His omnipotence." (page 187, Tan, 1998 republication)

    A good short sermon on the subject is given by Bishop Sanborn:

    http://www.traditionalcatholicsermons.org/wordpress/audio/?link=http://traditionalcatholicsermons.org/BishopSanborn/BpSan_Predestination_02-12-95_1277.mp3

     John Salza, much in disfavor because of his view on another issue, has a very good book on the subject as well, which I discuss in the currently last few pages of the thread.
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    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.
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