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Offline cantatedomino

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« Reply #330 on: May 13, 2014, 11:00:22 AM »
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  • Quote from: McFiggly
    cassini, do you have an internet resource that would tell me the Feast Days of the Saints and special prayers to be said on those days, etc.? I think that would be a great addition to my prayers.


    I like this site because it gives a tremendous amount of information on the Saints.

    http://catholicharboroffaithandmorals.com/

    Offline cantatedomino

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    « Reply #331 on: May 13, 2014, 11:01:30 AM »
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  • Cassini, you beat me to the point!!!

    I was also going to post the collect from St. Robert Bellarmine!


    Offline cassini

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    « Reply #332 on: May 13, 2014, 11:38:23 AM »
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  • Quote from: McFiggly
    cassini, do you have an internet resource that would tell me the Feast Days of the Saints and special prayers to be said on those days, etc.? I think that would be a great addition to my prayers.


    Hi Mc, I am very glad you asked this question, I have wanted to share it with other Catholics.
    The source of the above prayers for this feast day comes from THE SAINT ANDREW DAILY MISSAL with Vespers for Sundays and Feasts and Kyriale by Dom Gaspar Lefebvre O.S.B of the Abbey of St Andre imprimatur 1945, republished in 1999 by St Bonaventure Publications Montana

    I got my missal as a present about ten years ago. I thought I knew my faith reasonably well until I started reading the introductions to each Sunday and feast days. It is incredible and shows all the connections between the OT and the NT. We get the story of each saint plus any special prayers allotted to them. I highly recommend it as the greatest companion to bring to Mass whenever one goes.

    Offline jake1

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    « Reply #333 on: May 13, 2014, 12:29:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: cantatedomino
    Quote from: McFiggly
    cassini, do you have an internet resource that would tell me the Feast Days of the Saints and special prayers to be said on those days, etc.? I think that would be a great addition to my prayers.


    I like this site because it gives a tremendous amount of information on the Saints.

    http://catholicharboroffaithandmorals.com/


    What a wonderful website.  As you say, a tremendous amount of information on the Saints and a wide variety of general Catholic knowledge presented in a very edifying manner.  A great find!  Thank you.

    Offline cassini

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    « Reply #334 on: May 13, 2014, 03:20:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: jake1
    Quote from: cantatedomino
    Quote from: McFiggly
    cassini, do you have an internet resource that would tell me the Feast Days of the Saints and special prayers to be said on those days, etc.? I think that would be a great addition to my prayers.


    I like this site because it gives a tremendous amount of information on the Saints.

    http://catholicharboroffaithandmorals.com/


    What a wonderful website.  As you say, a tremendous amount of information on the Saints and a wide variety of general Catholic knowledge presented in a very edifying manner.  A great find!  Thank you.



    I agree. Go to the last two paragraphs, wow what a lesson.

    the service of an excellent prince, fell dangerously ill. His master, who loved him very much, visited him, and found him in great danger. There he lay, in his agony, just ready to breathe his last. Moved by this spectacle, the prince said to him: Can I do any thing for you? Ask freely whatever you wish, and do not fear that I shall refuse you any thing. My Lord! said the dying man, I know only one thing which, in my present condition, I would like to ask of you. Prolong my life for one quarter of an hour! Alas! said the prince, that is not in my power. Ask for something else; something that I can procure for you. See! said the dying man, for fifty years I have served this master of mine, and now he cannot prolong my life for one quarter of an hour. O! if I had only served my God as well, he would grant me not a quarter of an hour only, but a whole eternity of happiness! Very soon after that, he breathed his last.

    Shall we not, by and by, have the same fate ? We wear and wear ourselves out in the service of the world; we even sacrifice ourselves for it, and when our last hour comes, what will the world do for us, and what will remain to us after all we have done for it, if we have neglected the service of God, and the salvation of our soul? Let us consider this, and more sincereiy and firmly than ever before, say: I am resolved to save my soul, and for this I will labor the remainder of my life! Hitherto I have neglected this too much! Have I not reason to look upon it as a great favor, that God still gives me the time and the grace to meditate seriously on these things?



    Offline Thurifer

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    « Reply #335 on: May 13, 2014, 04:10:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: Domitilla
    97 years ago, on this Feast of St. Robert Bellarmine, Our Lady appeared for the first time at Fatima.


    In 1917, this date was a Ferial Day. St. Robert was not canonized until 1930.

    He died on 17 September. He was beatified on 13 May 1923.


    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #336 on: May 13, 2014, 04:16:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: The famous scientist Edwin Hubble
    Quote
    …Such a condition would imply that we occupy a unique position in the universe, analogous, in a sense, to the ancient conception of a central Earth...This hypothesis cannot be disproved, but it is unwelcome and would only be accepted as a last resort in order to save the phenomena. Therefore we disregard this possibility.... the unwelcome position of a favored location must be avoided at all costs....



    Edwin Hubble, "The Observational Approach to Cosmology".
    I took this from:
    "Current Science Excludes Geocentrism Through Unproven Assumptions"
    by Mark Wyatt
    http://geocentrism.com/assumptions.htm

    Here's the context...
    "The assumption of uniformity has much to be said in its favour. If the distribution were not uniform, it would either increase with distance, or decrease. But we would not expect to find a distribution in which the density increases with distance, symmetrically in all directions. Such a condition would imply that we occupy a unique position in the universe, analogous, in a sense, to the ancient conception of a central earth. The hypothesis cannot be disproved but it is unwelcome and would be accepted only as a last resort in order to save the phenomena. Therefore, we disregard this possibility and consider the alternative, namely, a distribution which thins out with distance."

    The famous scientist Stephen Hawking said:
    Quote
    Now at first sight, all this evidence that the universe looks the same whichever direction we look in might seem to suggest there is something special about our place in the universe. In particular, it might seem that if we observe all other galaxies to be moving away from us, then we must be at the center of the universe. There is, however, an alternate explanation: the universe might look the same in every direction as seen from any other galaxy too. This, as we have seen, was Friedmann’s second assumption. We have no scientific evidence for, or against, this assumption
    (A Brief History of Time, p. 42)
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    Offline McFiggly

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    « Reply #337 on: May 14, 2014, 04:33:08 AM »
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  • During this interlude I will post this brief article that I have just read from The Flat Earth Society website:

    Is Science Mysticism?


    When we look at science, we hope to see a rigid yet dynamic system which we use to quantify our world. Supposedly it is designed from the outright to remove bias with its main tenets dictating a strict non-opinionated approach to understanding and quenching our thirst and curiosity. At least that is our hope. In examination, we will show that mysticism, hallucinations, dreams and madness in many cases drive our progress in understanding, or at least inspiration leading to understanding, not strictly rational endeavor. Our aim is not to discredit these advances but instead simply to reveal their sources for what they are - nonrational.

    Popper would look upon such an endeavor as suspect and an issue of psychology, not the nature of science or knowledge. I firmly disagree on the basis of the potential use of such psychological provide a method of sorts. Can elegance really be said to be less psychological? We can’t make any sort of claim to this effect. What is elegant to the satellite is not elegant to the traveler on Earth. Since mysticism is a valid mechanic of discovery and analysis it thus should be placed among the methodologies taught for use in science - despite its dangerous nature.

    What exactly do we mean when we say mysticism or when we talk of mystical experience? Perhaps it is best if we discovered this through the context itself, which is to say through examples. We do have hordes of them, after all. And they paint their own picture.

    Let us first put our attention towards those cases where vast improvements in science, technology, or understanding came through relatively normal (if indeed any of these accounts could be said to be ‘normal’) visions or dreams. Surprisingly it has happened more often than we’d first guess. Perhaps it occurs much more often - as one might be hesitant to talk of such experiences due to social stigma.

    The most famous of these visions is like Einstein’s. As a small child in school he had a vision of himself running alongside light. From this he said his work on relativity followed.

    Another notable example is Nikola Tesla, known for his integral part in the design of modern alternating current. One day he was taking an ordinary walk as any of us might and a vision appeared to him of rotating burning wheels. From this came the invention of the Electric Motor in 1887.

    Dreams as we can see are not an uncommon method of inspiration and enlightenment. Otto Loewi, the father of neuroscience, had a dream on Easter Sunday 1923. He woke up, grabbed a nearby pad and scribbled down an experiment to prove that the transmission of nerve impulses was chemical and not electrical. In the morning, struggle as he could he simply could not read his writing. Luckily for us he had the same dream the next day and this upon waking went straight to work, and won himself a Nobel Prize for it.

    Ahh, but there are more! So much more that we must be dainty in our selection, for like Rowbotham we are overwhelmed by the truth in all directions. So much more we must question how blind those are who deny that science is irrational at its core!

    August Keke discovered the ring shape of the benzene molecule under the influence of a day dream. In 1855 he had a daydream of the ouroboros while on a horse-drawn omnibus in London. To him it appeared as dancing atoms and molecules that directly led to his discovery.

    Paul Davies recalls another for us in The Mind of God

    Quote
    For other scientists the revelatory experience happens spontaneously, in the midst of the daily clamor. Fred Hoyle relates such an incident that occurred to him while he was driving through the North of England. “Rather as the revelation occurred to Paul on the Road to Damascus, mine occurred on the road over Bowes Moor.” …. One day, as they were struggling over a particularly complicated integral, Hoyle decided to take a vacation from Cambridge to join some colleagues hiking in the Scottish Highlands:

    “As the miles slipped by I turned the quantum mechanical problem … over in my mind, in the hazy way I normally have in thinking mathematics in my head. Normally, I have to write things down on paper, and then fiddle with the equations and integrals as best I can. But somewhere on Bowes Moor my awareness of the mathematics clarified, not a little, not even a lot, but as if a huge brilliant light had suddenly been switched on. ….” [pgs 228-229]


    Paul Dirac, known to some as The Mystic of the Atom, would frequently have small revelations that guided his work. Off taking a walk to get away from his work one day on the Cambridgeshire countryside when out of blue he gained slight visual insight into the problem at hand: the non-commuting quantities in Heisenberg's theory. This was pretty common for him. (126 The Strangest Man, Graham Farmelo)

    So often do insights come from these non-mundane sources it is inevitable that some would try to reach such states to steal insight through non-natural methods. And this is exactly what folks do.

    Thomas Crick, co-discoverer of the double Helix structure of DNA, tells the story of how his use of LSD lead to this amazing discovery. He reveals to us that he would regularly take LSD and that it helped him to understand the structure of DNA, and thus winning him the Nobel Prize.

    Kary Mullis tells the BBC in their Psychedelic Scene docuмentary:

    Quote
    “What if I had not taken LSD ever, would I have still invented PCR? I don’t know. I doubt it. I seriously doubt it.”


    The evidence is stacking. Hordes upon hordes of instances, such that we only need to show a few to expose the truth. And yet like the walking dead they shamble around us. Hungry to be heard.

    Carl Sagan was often known to smoke cannabis which he claimed in Marihuana Reconsidered “helped him intellectually.” Richard Feynman set up deprivation tanks and experimented with pot to “explore human consciousness”. Edison fueled his life by Vin Mariani, a cocaine infused wine that allowed him to sleep only 4 hours a night. Steve Jobs recounts his LSD experience as the “single most important event of my life.” But enough about those who found their way artificially. Far more interesting are the tales of natural experiences of this sort. Those that touch us to believe there is another abstract Platonic realm.

    As it happens accomplished Physicist and Mathematician Roger Penrose has spoken often of “breaking through to the Platonic Realm.” Godel as well talked of experience with a realm where he could perceive mathematical objects. Of course this theme is not new to mysticism.

    Others tell of an almost sixth sense from which they receive revelation. Einstein would talk of the "old one" and his religious feelings quite often. Both David Bohm and Brian Josephson, another nobel prize winner, are known to meditate to gain mystical insights to guide their creation of theory.

    David Peat talks of his experiences

    Quote
    A remarkable feeling of intensity that seems to flood the whole world around us with meaning … we sense that we are touching something universal and perhaps eternal so that the particular moment in time takes on a numinous character and seems to expand in time without limit. We sense that all boundaries between ourselves and the outer world vanish, for what we are experiencing lies beyond all categories and all attempts to be captured in logical thought.


    Okay, I can see you’ve had enough. But alas, there is so much more!

    Here we must mention those ideas that sprang from decidedly mystical origins. A prime example being Heliocentrism whose origins of course are from mystical traditions in both Ancient Greek and Ancient Egypt. Aside from heliocentrism, Copernicus’s view that god can be known through study of the universe is what put his famous work on the Church’s Restricted Book List - it had nothing to do with some war between science and religion. Likewise, Faraday’s passion was summed up by his statement: “unravelling the mysteries of nature was to discover the manifestations of god.” Johannes Kepler saw God as a geometer and was influenced strongly by numerology. Newton was a strong believer in astrology.

    But what should we take of all this? As one should clearly see by now, even with our dainty sampling of experience, mysticism is essential to the scientific process. So ingrained is the non-mundane experience with the advance of science that we can never hope to untangle these sources as outliers and restore a purely rational narrative of scientific advance.

    What can we hope to gain from nurturing this behavior?

    It is likely we will see faster advancement. Hopefully we will find ourselves also in a more moral and civilized science. Through examination of more mutations, even if they come from a somewhat socially unpleasant grounding, we can only hope to see more angles of the situation.

    J Davis, American Flat Earth Society President.

    http://www.theflatearthsociety.net/mysticism.html

    Note: taking of mind-altering substances like LSD and other psychotropic chemicals has, I think, always been associated with witchcraft.


    Offline cassini

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    « Reply #338 on: May 14, 2014, 06:11:38 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Quote from: The famous scientist Edwin Hubble
    Quote
    …Such a condition would imply that we occupy a unique position in the universe, analogous, in a sense, to the ancient conception of a central Earth...This hypothesis cannot be disproved, but it is unwelcome and would only be accepted as a last resort in order to save the phenomena. Therefore we disregard this possibility.... the unwelcome position of a favored location must be avoided at all costs....


    Edwin Hubble, "The Observational Approach to Cosmology".
    I took this from:
    "Current Science Excludes Geocentrism Through Unproven Assumptions"
    by Mark Wyatt
    http://geocentrism.com/assumptions.htm

    Here's the context...
    "The assumption of uniformity has much to be said in its favour. If the distribution were not uniform, it would either increase with distance, or decrease. But we would not expect to find a distribution in which the density increases with distance, symmetrically in all directions. Such a condition would imply that we occupy a unique position in the universe, analogous, in a sense, to the ancient conception of a central earth. The hypothesis cannot be disproved but it is unwelcome and would be accepted only as a last resort in order to save the phenomena. Therefore, we disregard this possibility and consider the alternative, namely, a distribution which thins out with distance."

    The famous scientist Stephen Hawking said:
    Quote
    Now at first sight, all this evidence that the universe looks the same whichever direction we look in might seem to suggest there is something special about our place in the universe. In particular, it might seem that if we observe all other galaxies to be moving away from us, then we must be at the center of the universe. There is, however, an alternate explanation: the universe might look the same in every direction as seen from any other galaxy too. This, as we have seen, was Friedmann’s second assumption. We have no scientific evidence for, or against, this assumption
    (A Brief History of Time, p. 42)


    on the same subject, the first person to reject an expanding universe was Copernicus. It is based on the geocentric order he was trying to dismiss. Note also that another heresy - that of an infinite universe - is made false by way of a rotating universe. A heliocentric universe allows for this heresy, embraced by many today

    ‘But why didn’t Ptolemy feel anxiety about the world instead; whose movements must necessarily be of greater velocity, the greater the heavens are than the Earth? Or have the heavens become so immense, because an unspeakably vehement motion has pulled them away from the centre, and because the heavens would fall if they came to rest anywhere else. But they say beyond the heavens there isn’t any body or place or void or anything at all; and accordingly it is not possible for the heavens to move outwards; in that case it is rather surprising that something can be held together by nothing. But if the heavens were infinite and were finite only with respect to a hollow space inside, then it will be said with more truth that there is nothing outside the heavens, since anything that occupied any space would be in them; but the heavens will remain immobile. For movement is the most powerful reason wherewith they try to conclude that the universe is finite. ‘ --- On the Revolutions, Book 1, par 8.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #339 on: May 14, 2014, 01:28:20 PM »
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  • .

    Quote from: Copernicus

    ... ‘For movement is the most powerful reason wherewith they try to conclude that the universe is finite.’  --- On the Revolutions, Book 1, par 8.




    Fr. Nicolaus Copernicus ............ a Catholic priest ............


    "...the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of heaven shall be moved" (Matt. xxiv. 29).


    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #340 on: May 14, 2014, 01:43:38 PM »
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  • .


    I couldn't understand this post until I recognized the single typo:


    Quote from: cassini
    Quote from: jake1
    Quote from: cantatedomino
    Quote from: McFiggly
    cassini, do you have an internet resource that would tell me the Feast Days of the Saints and special prayers to be said on those days, etc.? I think that would be a great addition to my prayers.


    I like this site because it gives a tremendous amount of information on the Saints.

    http://catholicharboroffaithandmorals.com/


    What a wonderful website.  As you say, a tremendous amount of information on the Saints and a wide variety of general Catholic knowledge presented in a very edifying manner.  A great find!  Thank you.



    I agree. Go to the last two paragraphs, wow what a lesson.

    the service of an excellent prince fell dangerously ill. His master, who loved him very much, visited him, and found him in great danger. There he lay, in his agony, just ready to breathe his last. Moved by this spectacle, the prince said to him: Can I do any thing for you? Ask freely whatever you wish, and do not fear that I shall refuse you any thing. My Lord! said the dying man, I know only one thing which, in my present condition, I would like to ask of you. Prolong my life for one quarter of an hour! Alas! said the prince, that is not in my power. Ask for something else; something that I can procure for you. See! said the dying man, for fifty years I have served this master of mine, and now he cannot prolong my life for one quarter of an hour. O! if I had only served my God as well, he would grant me not a quarter of an hour only, but a whole eternity of happiness! Very soon after that, he breathed his last.

    Shall we not, by and by, have the same fate ? We wear and wear ourselves out in the service of the world; we even sacrifice ourselves for it, and when our last hour comes, what will the world do for us, and what will remain to us after all we have done for it, if we have neglected the service of God, and the salvation of our soul? Let us consider this, and more sincereiy and firmly than ever before, say: I am resolved to save my soul, and for this I will labor the remainder of my life! Hitherto I have neglected this too much! Have I not reason to look upon it as a great favor, that God still gives me the time and the grace to meditate seriously on these things?



    The "last two paragraphs" quote begins with "the service of an excellent prince..." but it should say "The servant of..."

    See the difference:  

    The servant of an excellent prince fell dangerously ill.  His master, who loved him very much, visited him and found him in great danger.  There he lay in his agony, just ready to breathe his last.  Moved by this spectacle, the prince said to him:  "Can I do any thing for you?  Ask freely whatever you wish, and do not fear that I shall refuse you any thing." "My Lord!" said the dying man, "I know only one thing which, in my present condition, I would like to ask of you. Prolong my life for one quarter of an hour!"  "Alas!" said the prince, "that is not in my power. Ask for something else;  something that I can procure for you."

    "See!" said the dying man, "for fifty years I have served this master of mine, and now he cannot prolong my life for one quarter of an hour.  O! if I had only served my God as well, he would grant me not a quarter of an hour only, but a whole eternity of happiness!" Very soon after that, he breathed his last.


    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline cassini

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    « Reply #341 on: May 14, 2014, 04:11:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    .
    Quote from: Copernicus

    ... ‘For movement is the most powerful reason wherewith they try to conclude that the universe is finite.’  --- On the Revolutions, Book 1, par 8.

    Fr. Nicolaus Copernicus ............ a Catholic priest ............

    "...the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of heaven shall be moved" (Matt. xxiv. 29).
    .


    Neil, Copernicus never became a priest, he only had minor orders, deacon or something like that. He was a caretaker of a church and a doctor of sorts. His expertise was in geometry and maths. He rarely looked at the stars and drew his data from Hipparcus and Ptolemy.

    Offline McFiggly

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    « Reply #342 on: May 14, 2014, 05:40:37 PM »
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  • What do you all think of the diagram I posted earlier of the ancient Babylonian cosmology, which is the one that the Hebrews used and the one depicted in the Bible? The fact is that if you are committed to a literal interpretation of Biblical cosmology then you are committed to a belief in a flat Earth. If I'm wrong in that assertion then by all means correct me. Einstein's theory was mind bending to heliocentrists / Copernicans, just as their theory was mind bending to geocentrists / Ptolemeans, just as their theory was to flat-earthers. St. Augustine, I believe, railed against the notion of a spherical Earth in his City of God, the same Saint who found a strictly literal interpretation of Genesis to be quite difficult, albeit St. Augustine did not have the same body of observational evidence to work with as we do today.

    Offline cassini

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    « Reply #343 on: May 15, 2014, 04:05:51 AM »
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  • Quote from: McFiggly
    What do you all think of the diagram I posted earlier of the ancient Babylonian cosmology, which is the one that the Hebrews used and the one depicted in the Bible? The fact is that if you are committed to a literal interpretation of Biblical cosmology then you are committed to a belief in a flat Earth. If I'm wrong in that assertion then by all means correct me. Einstein's theory was mind bending to heliocentrists / Copernicans, just as their theory was mind bending to geocentrists / Ptolemeans, just as their theory was to flat-earthers. St. Augustine, I believe, railed against the notion of a spherical Earth in his City of God, the same Saint who found a strictly literal interpretation of Genesis to be quite difficult, albeit St. Augustine did not have the same body of observational evidence to work with as we do today.


    The depiction of the universe you posted Mc is absolutely beautiful and depicts the faith by way of a picture, just as Michelangelo’s painting of Creation on the roof of the Sistine Chapel in Rome depicts the creation of man. As regards a flat earth, well TE explained this like so: It is addressed to those who laugh at the idea, not you Mc who ask a perfectly reasonable question.

    'Any mention of an earth-centred or geocentric universe or reality today is usually associated with what moderns deem a sister ignorance or naivety, belief in a flat earth. This is the standard insulting rebuttal used by those long indoctrinated into heliocentric certainty, those led to believe they are more intelligent and knowledgeable in these things than those Bible-thumping churchmen of the seventeenth century. It seems some individuals before then did claim the Bible teaches the earth is flat, while others claimed it revealed the earth is a spheroid. But the truth is that the only ‘flat-earthers’ to be found among the churchmen who condemned Galileo and his fixed-sun heresy exist in the sceptics’ prejudices. That the earth is a globe was the conclusion of ancient reasoning. They knew the shape of the earth as seen on the moon during an eclipse is always a full sphere. That would hardly be the case if the earth were a flat disc. The shifting position of stars as man moved north or south also the fact that ships appear and disappear over the horizon demonstrated to them the curved nature of the earth. Geocentrism and flat-earth belief then do not go hand in hand, as many propagandists would have you believe.'

    Offline Mathieu

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    « Reply #344 on: May 15, 2014, 05:30:31 AM »
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  • Quote from: McFiggly
    ...The fact is that if you are committed to a literal interpretation of Biblical cosmology then you are committed to a belief in a flat Earth...


    This is from Isaias 40:22

    "It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in."