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Author Topic: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism  (Read 8126 times)

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Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #235 on: March 30, 2026, 07:43:01 PM »
Agree. 
Invincible ignorance is a temporary state.  As St Thomas said (and also the pope who mentioned it...Pius XII?) that if an ignorant person has good will, they will be led by God to the Truth.  Anyone who listens to conversion stories knows that every. single. story. is. different.  God works in each person's life differently and miraculously.  But He always leads those of good will to Truth.

If one dies ignorant, then (as St Thomas says) it's their own fault, as ignorance is a punishment for sin.  Thus they die in VINCIBLE ignorance (i.e. culpable).  But most people only have TEMPORARY ignorance, as God gives them the Truth at some point.
I don't believe that anyone of good will dies with implicit faith only.  That would mean that God didn't enlighten them, or that they never crossed paths with someone to speak of religion.  That's the exact OPPOSITE of what St Thomas and Pius XII told us.
Most people (i.e. american native indians, as an example) did NOT follow the natural law -- they were warring, violent people who practiced witchcraft.  Bad will = ignorance = punishment for sins.  Those native indians who had good will WERE visited by the saintly nun who taught them the faith.

Implicit faith does exist, but it's not salvific, that's the point.  It's temporary, until God gives them the full Truth, which St Thomas, Pius XII (and Scripture) infallibly declares will happen.

To exclude this principle, you are denying exactly what St Thomas explains below.  You are denying Scripture and a myriad of stories which prove that God will send the Truth to those of good will.  To deny providence of this kind is a heresy.

"If someone were raised in the forest or among wolves, and did what was in his power [facit quod in se est], God would provide for him what is necessary for salvation, either by inward inspiration, or by sending him a preacher of the faith, as He sent Peter to Cornelius (Acts 10)."
Where did you study philosophy and theology?  

Offline DecemRationis

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Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #236 on: Yesterday at 12:54:47 PM »
I got your original point.  No need to expand.  So you’re critical of a Brownson fan who disagrees with Brownson on one point.  That’s normal human behavior - to have independent opinions from those whom you study from.  It sounds like you’re promoting hero worship.  Carry on. 

I wouldn't be a "fan" of the theological thought of someone who violates logic in his thinking on such a profound topic as who can be saved and by what means. 

I guess that's just me. 


Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #237 on: Yesterday at 02:18:17 PM »
I wouldn't be a "fan" of the theological thought of someone who violates logic in his thinking on such a profound topic as who can be saved and by what means.

I guess that's just me.

Even St Thomas isn't infallible and the Summa contains many errors.  Does this mean that seminary students shouldn't study the Summa?  The Church declared him a Doctor; does this mean the Church was wrong?  :facepalm:  Come on, man.  Only God is perfect.  Brownson isn't even a saint.  But he got A LOT correct on other topics.