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Author Topic: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism  (Read 7487 times)

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Offline OABrownson1876

  • Supporter
Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #230 on: March 29, 2026, 03:33:20 PM »
Logic, pure and simple: There is one Baptism, Unum Baptisma, as the creed tells us.
                                   This one sacrament consists of water and the words (Trent)
                                   This Sacrament is necessary for salvation because the sacraments 
                                    are necessary for salvation (also Trent)
                                    Baptism by Desire does not consist of water and the words and is
                                     not a sacrament. (most agree to this truth)

                                    Ergo: Baptism by Desire does not avail to salvation                                      
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Offline DecemRationis

  • Supporter
Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #231 on: Yesterday at 02:46:24 PM »
Quote from: OABrownson1876 on March 29, 2026, 03:33:20 PM
Logic, pure and simple: There is one Baptism, Unum Baptisma, as the creed tells us.
                                  This one sacrament consists of water and the words (Trent)
                                  This Sacrament is necessary for salvation because the sacraments
                                    are necessary for salvation (also Trent)
                                    Baptism by Desire does not consist of water and the words and is
                                    not a sacrament. (most agree to this truth)

                                    Ergo: Baptism by Desire does not avail to salvation                                     


I guess OB1 was deficient in that regard OB1876, since the original OABrownson illogically thought  a BoD could be salvific:


Quote
There is no difference between their view [i.e., Bellarmine, St. Thomas, Billuart et al] and ours, for we have never contended for anything more than this; only we think, that, in these times especially, when the tendency is to depreciate the external, it is more proper to speak of them simply as belonging to the soul, for the fact the most important to be insisted on is, not that it is impossible to be saved without receiving the visible sacrament in re, but that it is impossible to be saved without receiving the visible sacrament at least in voto et proxima dispositione."

Perhaps logic wasn't taught back then?
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Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #232 on: Yesterday at 03:09:26 PM »
Just because you admire a fellow Catholic, doesn’t mean you agree with 100% he says.  :facepalm:  That's sixth-grade thinking.  
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Offline DecemRationis

  • Supporter
Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #233 on: Yesterday at 06:18:07 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on Yesterday at 03:09:26 PM
Just because you admire a fellow Catholic, doesn’t mean you agree with 100% he says.  :facepalm:  That's sixth-grade thinking. 

True to form, you miss the point.

If you hold someone out as a profound thinker, and then indicate that logic necessitates a certain position that said person contradicts, thereby by implication not only being wrong, but being incapable of logical thought, then, under such circuмstances, a reasonable man would rethink his oppostion on the point, and maintain that the contrary position of the "profound thinker" whose intellect generally is incisive and on point had a difference of opinion on the point which reasonable, logical men could be contrary on.

But no, simple "logic" dictates something that Orestes Brownson opposes, per OA.

If one wants to reject BoD reasonably, fine. I wouldn't respond. But OA's "logic" dictates garbage is over the top and absurd, and the absurdity is higlighted by his forum name and general touting and promotion of Brownson.

That's perhaps the major point of my response.

So . . . ok. You respond to "sixth-grade thinking" with fourth-grade thinking.

I'm being generous.

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Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #234 on: Yesterday at 07:39:03 PM »
Quote from: DecemRationis on Yesterday at 06:18:07 PM
True to form, you miss the point.

If you hold someone out as a profound thinker, and then indicate that logic necessitates a certain position that said person contradicts, thereby by implication not only being wrong, but being incapable of logical thought, then, under such circuмstances, a reasonable man would rethink his oppostion on the point, and maintain that the contrary position of the "profound thinker" whose intellect generally is incisive and on point had a difference of opinion on the point which reasonable, logical men could be contrary on.

But no, simple "logic" dictates something that Orestes Brownson opposes, per OA.

If one wants to reject BoD reasonably, fine. I wouldn't respond. But OA's "logic" dictates garbage is over the top and absurd, and the absurdity is higlighted by his forum name and general touting and promotion of Brownson.

That's perhaps the major point of my response.

So . . . ok. You respond to "sixth-grade thinking" with fourth-grade thinking.

I'm being generous.
I got your original point.  No need to expand.  So you’re critical of a Brownson fan who disagrees with Brownson on one point.  That’s normal human behavior - to have independent opinions from those whom you study from.  It sounds like you’re promoting hero worship.  Carry on.  
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