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Author Topic: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism  (Read 6068 times)

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Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #205 on: Yesterday at 11:02:19 AM »
:confused: Is that yet another misinterpretation? I have no idea what you're talking about.
Saying BOB/BOD is not baptism has no logical meaning whatsoever. It's like saying that the branch of a tree is not part of the same tree. 

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #206 on: Yesterday at 12:24:53 PM »
1)My idea was that, when Christ ressurected from the dead, He made the New Law effective. The Old law was no longer effective.
However, the apostles didn't instantly teleport everywhere in the world to preach the gospels. So, necessarily, there was a delay to reach the people. During this delay, potentially hundreds of thousands or millions of people died without being able to get baptised, even if (had they heard of the gospels) they would have immediately asked for baptism. So, a)Does the Old Law apply to those people? b)Or does the New Law apply, with BOD?
I don't know and nobody knows.  The Church hasn't told us.  So it's best to leave all these people in the hands of God.  It's not our job to "figure out" how other people can get saved.  It's God's job.

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2)BOD/BOB are terms used in order to describe the situation where "ordinary baptism" does not apply. They are not different sorts of baptism, it's one single baptism but in 3 specific conditions.
BOB is ordinary baptism, though, because it has both matter/form.  BOD has neither.  They are incomparable.

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3)I do not know the exact conditions for BOD to apply.
:facepalm:  Here you are, repeatedly, telling people they are going to hell if they don't believe it, and you don't even know the exact conditions for it.  :facepalm:

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4)I have no idea of the specific conditions. I believe that muslims and jews at the very least heard of the christian religion, so they should have been able to know about baptism as well.
A muslim can't be saved as a muslim.  To receive BOD, you have to desire baptism, specifically.  If a muslim desires baptism, they necessarily must have rejected their muslim faith, because you can't be a catholic and a muslim at the same time.  Same thing applies to jews.

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5)Can you define "implicit faith"?
There is no saint, doctor, council which says that a desire "to love God" or a "perfect contrition" suffices for BOD.  Only modernists say such.  Modernists say such desires "implicitly" contain the desire to "do what God wants" (I would disagree) which implicitly contains the desire to be baptized (I would also disagree).  This idea is heresy.


Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #207 on: Yesterday at 12:34:51 PM »
One die can land on 6 faces, it's still one die. :facepalm:
So would that same principle apply to the "One Lord and One Faith" part?

Offline Stubborn

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Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #208 on: Yesterday at 12:37:27 PM »
One die can land on 6 faces, it's still one die. :facepalm:

Saying BOB/BOD is not baptism has no logical meaning whatsoever. It's like saying that the branch of a tree is not part of the same tree.

This does not make even a shred of sense x 2.

Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #209 on: Yesterday at 12:45:46 PM »
I don't know and nobody knows.  The Church hasn't told us.  So it's best to leave all these people in the hands of God.  It's not our job to "figure out" how other people can get saved.  It's God's job.
BOB is ordinary baptism, though, because it has both matter/form.  BOD has neither.  They are incomparable.
:facepalm:  Here you are, repeatedly, telling people they are going to hell if they don't believe it, and you don't even know the exact conditions for it.  :facepalm:
A muslim can't be saved as a muslim.  To receive BOD, you have to desire baptism, specifically.  If a muslim desires baptism, they necessarily must have rejected their muslim faith, because you can't be a catholic and a muslim at the same time.  Same thing applies to jews.
There is no saint, doctor, council which says that a desire "to love God" or a "perfect contrition" suffices for BOD.  Only modernists say such.  Modernists say such desires "implicitly" contain the desire to "do what God wants" (I would disagree) which implicitly contains the desire to be baptized (I would also disagree).  This idea is heresy.
It seems to me that Aristotle was a possible subject to the "implicit faith" requirement. This isn't something new that modernists invented, this is merely the logical consequence to people subject to "invincible ignorance". 

According to Vatican II modernists, God created all false religions as means of salvation for specific people in specific geographical areas. When hinduists or buddhists pray to their false idols, according to Vatican II heretics they are trying to pray to God and God allegedly hears their prayers and answers to them. I think you can easily understand why such teachings are an abomination, and that it has nothing to do with baptism of desire.