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Author Topic: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism  (Read 6720 times)

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Online AnthonyPadua

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Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #195 on: March 24, 2026, 07:44:36 PM »
Quote from: Lazarus on March 24, 2026, 08:41:32 AM
Logically, people who couldn't ever be reached by any priest or apostle during their lifetime and who have absolutely no way of knowing baptism is necessary for salvation cannot be subjected to an obligation which they were not aware of nor had any means to know of.
What do you call this concept? Isn't that "Baptism of desire"?
God is not constrained by impossibility. There is NO ONE who God cannot bring baptism to.

As St Augustine says, "let it never be said that God will allow any of His elect die before receiving the sacrament of the mediator".
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Online AnthonyPadua

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Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #196 on: March 24, 2026, 07:46:35 PM »
Quote from: Lazarus on March 24, 2026, 08:47:30 AM

It's that you preach a doctrine which makes the infallibility of the Church into a joke, an infallibility that only works in extremely specific conditions which are exactly the conditions used by Vatican II cultists who claim their "popes" can teach heresy or error and that it's not a problem.

How could St Pius X write a catechism full of errors and recommend it for all Italy? Do you think the Holy Ghost only helps St Pius X when he makes ex cathedra statements and just ignores everything else he does?
Go read Vatican 1 to understand when a Pope is infallible. 
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Offline Stubborn

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Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #197 on: March 25, 2026, 05:25:56 AM »
Quote from: Lazarus on March 24, 2026, 08:28:22 AM
Arguing with people with no logical skills is difficult. If you can't even spot the sophistry in your own arguments what am I supposed to do?
This is very poor, even for you. The thing you need to do in order to prove a BOD, is to reply against the authoritative teachings that I and the others have provided, with your evidence that those teachings; 1) do not mean what they say,  2) have a double meaning that includes a BOD and does not contradict what the words actually say, 3) provide an authentic Church teaching that clearly defines what a BOD is.

So far, 1) your idea of what a BOD even is has changed multiple times, 2) you choose to ignore the authentic Church teachings provided that contradict and/or condemn a BOD, 3) Accept that there *is* a valid and legitimate argument here, stop condemning everyone as a heretic who provides authoritative evidence against a BOD.
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Offline OABrownson1876

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Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #198 on: March 25, 2026, 07:34:01 AM »
St. Dismas' feast day is today, March 25th, 2026.  Ora pro nobis.  I still maintain that Dismas was possibly baptized sacramentally.  We know that in between the Crucifixion and the Ascension many of those who died under the Old Law arose from the grave.  It is recorded in Sacred Writ.  Not quite sure where the Romans buried the crucified criminals, but it is nothing for God to raise a man from the dead, allow him to be baptized, and then go "back to sleep."  It has actually happened several times in Church history. 
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Offline Lazarus

Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #199 on: March 25, 2026, 08:03:51 AM »
Quote from: Stubborn on March 25, 2026, 05:25:56 AM
This is very poor, even for you. The thing you need to do in order to prove a BOD, is to reply against the authoritative teachings that I and the others have provided, with your evidence that those teachings; 1) do not mean what they say,  2) have a double meaning that includes a BOD and does not contradict what the words actually say, 3) provide an authentic Church teaching that clearly defines what a BOD is.

So far, 1) your idea of what a BOD even is has changed multiple times, 2) you choose to ignore the authentic Church teachings provided that contradict and/or condemn a BOD, 3) Accept that there *is* a valid and legitimate argument here, stop condemning everyone as a heretic who provides authoritative evidence against a BOD.
If you knew anything about mathematics and set theory, perhaps you would understand the concept of inclusion and exclusion, and perhaps you would understand what it means for a statement of truth to be compatible with another without conflict.

In short, your quotes are not incompatible with the BOB/BOD position, the problem is your interpretation which is entirely illogical. 
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