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Author Topic: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism  (Read 5972 times)

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Online WorldsAway

Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #190 on: March 24, 2026, 10:41:32 AM »
Quote from: Lazarus on March 24, 2026, 09:47:17 AM
Your position doesn't make any sense. How can the dead receive baptism, which is a sacrament for the living?

Before the resurrection of bodies, they are merely souls. How can a soul without a body receive baptism?

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened: and many bodies of the saints that had slept arose,
27:53 And coming out of the tombs after his resurrection, came into the holy city and appeared to many.

We know that many OT Just arose with their bodies and appeared to many after Our Lord's Resurrection. I do not think this necessarily means that not all souls of the OT Just were united with their bodies, but that not all "appeared to many". If you see any error with theorizing that all of the souls of the OT Just were united with their bodies in order to receive Baptism, I am interested in reading it
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Online Lazarus

Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #191 on: March 24, 2026, 02:47:51 PM »
Quote from: WorldsAway on March 24, 2026, 10:41:32 AM
Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened: and many bodies of the saints that had slept arose,
27:53 And coming out of the tombs after his resurrection, came into the holy city and appeared to many.

We know that many OT Just arose with their bodies and appeared to many after Our Lord's Resurrection. I do not think this necessarily means that not all souls of the OT Just were united with their bodies, but that not all "appeared to many". If you see any error with theorizing that all of the souls of the OT Just were united with their bodies in order to receive Baptism, I am interested in reading it
It was a local event, though. I am pretty sure only the Saints near Judea were resurrected, it was probably a miracle for the sake of the Jєωιѕн people so that they would convert. Moreover, had Abraham, or Moses, or any of the great prophets of the AT been resurrected... The Bible would have talken about it specifically.  

So, we can infer that it is probable that not all of the Saints were brought back from the dead. If such an event had happened worldwide, we should have countless evidence from everywhere in the world.


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Online WorldsAway

Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #192 on: March 24, 2026, 03:14:49 PM »
Quote from: Lazarus on March 24, 2026, 02:47:51 PM
It was a local event, though. I am pretty sure only the Saints near Judea were resurrected, it was probably a miracle for the sake of the Jєωιѕн people so that they would convert. Moreover, had Abraham, or Moses, or any of the great prophets of the AT been resurrected... The Bible would have talken about it specifically. 

So, we can infer that it is probable that not all of the Saints were brought back from the dead. If such an event had happened worldwide, we should have countless evidence from everywhere in the world.
Yes, the "many bodies of the saints" that "came into the holy city and appeared to many" was a local event. The theory is not that all the OT Just rose in their bodies and appeared to those living on earth, but that all of the souls of the OT Just were reunited with their bodies in order for them to be baptized. This theory does not require them to have even left the location of their burial. 
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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #193 on: March 24, 2026, 04:53:52 PM »
Quote from: Lazarus on March 23, 2026, 06:04:01 AM
No, I don't agree with the idiocies he said. Simply, I used a more roundabout and easier method of proving BOB/BOD are correct.

But, it seems he lacks any capacity for logic, so what can I do?
 
Ok. I guess I misread this then:

Quote
So what if Trent's catechism doesn't mention BOD/BOB? That just means it is incomplete, not that it is incorrect. There is no conflict between St Pius X's catechism and Trent's Catechism that I can think of. Usually, Councils are done in order to oppose some kind of heresy that denies a major article of the faith.

If no one ever denied BOB/BOD in the past, even among protestants, then the theologians who wrote Trent's catechism probably forgot to mention the subject, because it wasn't important back then.
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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #194 on: March 24, 2026, 07:41:59 PM »
Quote from: Lazarus on March 24, 2026, 08:28:22 AM
Arguing with people with no logical skills is difficult. If you can't even spot the sophistry in your own arguments what am I supposed to do?
Take a look in the mirror buddy boyo
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