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Author Topic: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism  (Read 5709 times)

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Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #175 on: March 23, 2026, 03:08:14 PM »
Baptism is the one sacrament necessary for salvation for all men. It is the only sacrament that every person on earth, above the age of reason, can validly administer. It is the "easiest" sacrament to confect. An unbaptized man would need one other person, a handful of water, and about 5 seconds of time to receive the Sacrament of Baptism. The administer needs to know only, I believe, 11 Latin words for the proper form, or several more in English, probably more or less the same in other languages. 

Water is the the most abundant matter on the surface of the Earth, covering over 70% of it. Water is absolutely necessary for natural life. Wherever man is, he needs water. He cannot live more than several days without water. He will catch rain, melt snow and ice, collect the dew on leaves to obtain water. Our Lord's words seem to indicate that it is also absolutely necessary for supernatural life (John 3:5)

Not really a theological argument..I just find it hard to believe that anyone properly disposed to receive the Sacrament and desiring it would not once in their life have the opportunity and means to receive it. 

Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #176 on: March 23, 2026, 05:30:22 PM »
“Implicit desire” is the same thing taught by the Modernist Rahner and also at V2.  It is 100% contrary to what St Thomas, St Bellarmine and St Alphonsus said, which is that BOD “could” apply but…only for FORMAL CATECHUMENS who were taking FORMAL classes to convert. 

So here you are, proving that BOD isn’t a coherent theory because you are mixing and matching ideas and details to come up with an explanation which makes sense.  Your explanation neither matches St Thomas nor St Alphonsus.  Neither did St Thomas agree with St Augustine or St Alphonsus on the topic of remission of sins. 

There is no docuмent or saint which fully and completely explains BOD.  It’s a hodgepodge of theories, and your explanation is different from the saints and also every person I’ve ever debated on the topic. 
And he is very quick to insult others intelligence/reading comprehension. This is why I partially abandoned the thread, it's ALWAYS the same rubbish every single time.


Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #177 on: Yesterday at 04:36:14 AM »
“Implicit desire” is the same thing taught by the Modernist Rahner and also at V2.  It is 100% contrary to what St Thomas, St Bellarmine and St Alphonsus said, which is that BOD “could” apply but…only for FORMAL CATECHUMENS who were taking FORMAL classes to convert. 

So here you are, proving that BOD isn’t a coherent theory because you are mixing and matching ideas and details to come up with an explanation which makes sense.  Your explanation neither matches St Thomas nor St Alphonsus.  Neither did St Thomas agree with St Augustine or St Alphonsus on the topic of remission of sins. 

There is no docuмent or saint which fully and completely explains BOD.  It’s a hodgepodge of theories, and your explanation is different from the saints and also every person I’ve ever debated on the topic. 
The fact of the matter is that the Church has venerated Saints subject to baptism of blood for 1700 years, so we can be certain that at least baptism of blood is true. The feyneite doctrine denies this basic fact, which if enough for proving that this doctrine is incorrect. We have already covered far than enough material to prove that feyneism is a false doctrine.

My primary concern was proving that the catechumens who died as martyrs are indeed Saints.

Implicit desire is indeed taught by Vatican II, but just because Vatican II cultists say one thing doesn't mean it is false. Otherwise, we'd have to reject the Trinity under the pretext that Vatican II heretics believe in it.

Vatican II cultists claim that when pagans or buddhists pray to their false idols that they are unconsciously praying to God or angels and that somehow God created all fake religions in order to save specific people.
Refuting this disgusting polytheist cult does not require denying baptism of desire or baptism of blood.


Offline Stubborn

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Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #178 on: Yesterday at 05:05:29 AM »
The fact of the matter is that the Church has venerated Saints subject to baptism of blood for 1700 years, so we can be certain that at least baptism of blood is true. The feyneite doctrine denies this basic fact, which if enough for proving that this doctrine is incorrect. We have already covered far than enough material to prove that feyneism is a false doctrine.

My primary concern was proving that the catechumens who died as martyrs are indeed Saints.
This is error. It was only 600 years ago that the Council of Florence taught: 

"It firmly believes, professes and preaches... that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed his blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and the unity of the catholic church."

Catechumens are not yet members of the bosom or unity of the Catholic Church. That is attained only through the sacrament of BAPTISM.



Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #179 on: Yesterday at 05:33:53 AM »
This is error. It was only 600 years ago that the Council of Florence taught:

"It firmly believes, professes and preaches... that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed his blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and the unity of the catholic church."

Catechumens are not yet members of the bosom or unity of the Catholic Church. That is attained only through the sacrament of BAPTISM.
Exactly like an NPC or a bot, after 10 pages of conversation you just reset and forgot that you were proven wrong definitely.

You are at the same level, if not lower, than Vatican II cultists.