Author Topic: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism (Read 1633 times)

AnthonyPadua · « **Reply #50 on:** **Today** at 02:41:57 AM »

Quote from: Lazarus on Today at 12:02:19 AM

I doubt that your argument is correct, because the apostles and Christ Himself got baptized, proving that baptism is at the very least necessary for those willing and able. But, let's accept your point and pretend it

The baptism of John is not the sacrament of baptism. Read the Gospels very carefully.

AnthonyPadua · « **Reply #51 on:** **Today** at 02:45:00 AM »

Quote from: Lazarus on Today at 12:02:19 AM

I doubt that your argument is correct, because the apostles and Christ Himself got baptized, proving that baptism is at the very least necessary for those willing and able. But, let's accept your point and pretend it were correct, and look at the logical consequences. The Old thief died under the Old Law, but once Jesus Christ died and resurrected from the dead, the New Law was enacted.

I do not think your reasoning makes sense. According to you, exactly at the moment of Christ's death, millions of people (whom under the Old Law could get to heaven through a process similar to BOD/BOB) suddenly cannot. Considering that the Gospels took centuries -if not millenia- to be spread to all corners of the world, that means millions whom, under the Old Law had a chance at salvation, suddenly having no chance at salvation at all and being sent to hell, without any changes in their actions compared to their predecessors.

I do not think it would be logically consistent to do such a thing. Why would God do so?

The council of Trent and Pope Benedict 12 said that baptism is required under the new law which started with the promulgation of the gospel (when Christ told his disciples to teach and baptise the nations).

Your second paragraph is emotional cope. Most people are not saved. The elect are always saved. There is no reason to Doubt that God cannot bring baptism to HIS ELECT. St Augustine said Sacrament of the Mediator, this is water baptism as baptism of desire is not a sacrament as defined by the Church.

Stubborn · « **Reply #52 on:** **Today** at 04:27:06 AM »

Quote from: Cera on Yesterday at 02:08:10 PM

Quote from: Stubborn on March 13, 2026, 05:12:52 AMThe bold part is was being referrenced. That's why I said:
That's a sweet emotional argument. But not true.

To spell it out, the Catholic Church accepts Baptisms even when administered by heretics, which means the Baptised convert will not "implore to be baptised first, right now, on the spot, immediately, before another hour passes lest they die."

see this:
The Catechism of the Council of Trent fully accepted baptism administered by heretics and infidels, provided that those who administered the sacrament intended to do what the Catholic Church did [does]. That is, even heretics, let alone other Christians. In Part 2: Baptism, it deals with the three "gradations" of those who may administer it.
Quote
As the Catechism of Trent says, that practice was "already established by the decrees of the ancient Fathers," that is, the earliest Councils of the Church.
It is an immemorial custom.

I don't get the argument. Yes, baptisms are valid if done correctly even when administered by heretics - so there is no argument there.

The reason the convert implores to be baptized immediately is because they fear they might die before they receive the sacrament of baptism. (At which time they need to be explained why the Church does not do it that way).

OABrownson1876 · « **Reply #53 on:** **Today** at 07:09:07 AM »

First of all, the feast day of St. Dismas, the Good Thief, is March 25th, the day our Lord was crucified according the book Saints to Remember (Anne Emmerich also says this if I recall). We know that many of the saints who died justified arose and walked about Jerusalem (St. Matthew, 27th chapter). These were obviously OT saints, a.k.a. possibly St. Dismas. The common opinion is that St. Dismas died in the OT, but I say not so fast. He could have been one of those who heard St. Peter's sermon to the three thousand for all we know. St. Augustine in his Retractions admits to not knowing whether or not the Good Thief was baptized. Why would St. Augustine make this curious remark, opening the door for baptism? I am of the opinion that in between March 25 and the Ascension possibly a great number of OT saints might have been baptized, including St. Joseph.

In heaven I intend to ask St. Dismas, and I am sure he will have plenty of time to answer my question.

TomGubbinsKimmage · « **Reply #54 on:** **Today** at 07:58:07 AM »

There are catechisms with Baptism of desire written into them.

Yet there is not one catechism mentioning the earth as round.

CathInfo.com

Author Topic: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism (Read 1633 times)

AnthonyPadua

Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism

AnthonyPadua

Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism

Stubborn

Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism

OABrownson1876

Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism

TomGubbinsKimmage

Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism